Question about Dragon Box: The Movies

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:03 pm

How come they have grain (although it does have far less grain than the Dragon Box tv show sets)? When I watched the Funi releases for most of the movies, they didn't have grain at all, yet Dragon Box: The Movies has grain in it.

ect5150 · Post by **ect5150** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:44 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:How come they have grain (although it does have far less grain than the Dragon Box tv show sets)? When I watched the Funi releases for most of the movies, they didn't have grain at all, yet Dragon Box: The Movies has grain in it.

Don't know what to tell you other than the movies were supposed to have been drawn on a different type of film (as opposed to the series). I may be mistaken, but that film I think inherently has less grain.

As to the DBox versus FUNI's versions, if you watch them both on the same display, they both have roughly the same amount of film grain. Although, FUNI's are slightly blurrier and aren't encoded as well. That basically makes it harder to maintain fine detail (which is exactly what film grain is, just a small, fine detail in the picture)

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:05 pm

ect5150 wrote:Don't know what to tell you other than the movies were supposed to have been drawn on a different type of film (as opposed to the series). I may be mistaken, but that film I think inherently has less grain.

Indeed. If memory serves, the series was animated on (cheaper) 16mm stock, whereas the movies were done on more expensive 35mm stock. I think there was some indication that the specials were also done on 35mm, but I have no idea for certain.

16mm does have disadvantages, being that it's typically blurrier and grainier. 35mm is much better, but like most (if not all) film mediums still has grain. The only truly "grain free" image you'll get is a direct digital shoot, like Revenge of the Sith.

BTW, this isn't all 100% for me. I'm just going off stuff I've read, so YMMV. Feel free to correct me.

-Corey

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:44 pm

Is it even possible to remove grain without compromising the detail? I remember the Box art use for the DVD Saga Box Sets that Funi released were taken straight from the film, but they had no grain. However, they were so detailed that the Aura looked like it had just been painted!

SSJToreto · Post by **SSJToreto** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:50 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:Is it even possible to remove grain without compromising the detail? I remember the Box art use for the DVD Saga Box Sets that Funi released were taken straight from the film, but they had no grain. However, they were so detailed that the Aura looked like it had just been painted!

I guess it's possible if were talking about an induvidual frame.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:51 pm

SSJToreto wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:Is it even possible to remove grain without compromising the detail? I remember the Box art use for the DVD Saga Box Sets that Funi released were taken straight from the film, but they had no grain. However, they were so detailed that the Aura looked like it had just been painted!
I guess it's possible if were talking about an induvidual frame.

Perhaps if they digitally photographed every frame, they could get rid of the grain.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:13 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:Perhaps if they digitally photographed every frame, they could get rid of the grain.

That'd be what "telecining" is

Grain is detail in terms of film. It's finer on higher quality stock, but it's still there. The only way to have no grain and detail is to film something completely digitally. For cel-based shows, you could digitally recolor every frame...but it'd be far less expensive to just reanimate it from scratch.

-Corey

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:55 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:Perhaps if they digitally photographed every frame, they could get rid of the grain.
That'd be what "telecining" is

Grain is detail in terms of film. It's finer on higher quality stock, but it's still there. The only way to have no grain and detail is to film something completely digitally. For cel-based shows, you could digitally recolor every frame...but it'd be far less expensive to just reanimate it from scratch.

-Corey

Too bad most of the cels are gone and in the hands of fans

Fushar · Post by **Fushar** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:20 pm

Dont worry about it.

Lobster_Rage155 · Post by **Lobster_Rage155** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:56 am

Well, when it comes to the FUNi DVDs, whatever "grain" that could have been in the picture was gobbled up by chroma noise and other such annoyances when it was telecined and printed to composite digibeta tapes, which is what FUNi used for their DBZ DVDs. It also didn't help that FUNi had a nasty habit of sharpening the picture to halo hell, cranking up the saturation levels til the colors could melt your eyes out of their sockets, and encoding them at bitrates that would make Joe Taiwanesebootlegwith15episodesperdisc proud. XP

But I digress. Film is film, and film naturally has grain. If you're watching something from film and there's not even a speck of film grain crawling around anywhere, there's been some kind of fuckery, my good man.

Kanzenshuu

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