What’s everyone’s opinion on how the manga has so far handled the Universe Survival arc compared to the anime?

[Bergamo]

The WORST ToP manga chapter equaled this. How is possible that the episode featuring one of the best animations in HISTORY OF THE FRANCHISE was only tied with the worst ToP chapter? Because it was, IMO, shiny turd. Had nothing going for it but beautiful art and animation.

You say "How is this possible" as though your arbitrary episode rating is some kind of objective fact. You just kind of make up ratings and use the made up rating to compare it to your made up ratings of the manga and try to convey that as the anime objectively doing a poor job. It is extremely subjective. Many people, including myself, consider 130 the greatest episode in the entire franchise and you have no right to say that anybody who says so is wrong. It had actual depth to the fight beyond the physical aspects of it.

Moving on, personally I think that Toyotaro did a decent job handling the BoG and Universe 6 Tournament arcs, but the Zamasu Arc and the Universe Survival Arc have been extremely poorly executed so far. The only thing Toyotaro did better than the anime in those two arcs IMO were:

1. Explained how Black's "zenkais" worked better/
2. Explained how Ribrianne's power depends on her emotional state as far as where she considers her beauty/love to be at during that particular time.

130 has the best animation, but no emotional weight. If Goku vs Piccolo jr had 130 levels of animation it would probably be one of the best fights in anime history, but it's in the ToP arc, which, to me, automatically decreases its value.

[PFM18]

The WORST ToP manga chapter equaled this. How is possible that the episode featuring one of the best animations in HISTORY OF THE FRANCHISE was only tied with the worst ToP chapter? Because it was, IMO, shiny turd. Had nothing going for it but beautiful art and animation.

You say "How is this possible" as though your arbitrary episode rating is some kind of objective fact. You just kind of make up ratings and use the made up rating to compare it to your made up ratings of the manga and try to convey that as the anime objectively doing a poor job. It is extremely subjective. Many people, including myself, consider 130 the greatest episode in the entire franchise and you have no right to say that anybody who says so is wrong. It had actual depth to the fight beyond the physical aspects of it.

Moving on, personally I think that Toyotaro did a decent job handling the BoG and Universe 6 Tournament arcs, but the Zamasu Arc and the Universe Survival Arc have been extremely poorly executed so far. The only thing Toyotaro did better than the anime in those two arcs IMO were:

1. Explained how Black's "zenkais" worked better/
2. Explained how Ribrianne's power depends on her emotional state as far as where she considers her beauty/love to be at during that particular time.

130 has the best animation, but no emotional weight. If Goku vs Piccolo jr had 130 levels of animation it would probably be one of the best fights in anime history, but it's in the ToP arc, which, to me, automatically decreases its value.

How does it have no emotional weight??

[Bergamo]

You say "How is this possible" as though your arbitrary episode rating is some kind of objective fact. You just kind of make up ratings and use the made up rating to compare it to your made up ratings of the manga and try to convey that as the anime objectively doing a poor job. It is extremely subjective. Many people, including myself, consider 130 the greatest episode in the entire franchise and you have no right to say that anybody who says so is wrong. It had actual depth to the fight beyond the physical aspects of it.

Moving on, personally I think that Toyotaro did a decent job handling the BoG and Universe 6 Tournament arcs, but the Zamasu Arc and the Universe Survival Arc have been extremely poorly executed so far. The only thing Toyotaro did better than the anime in those two arcs IMO were:

1. Explained how Black's "zenkais" worked better/
2. Explained how Ribrianne's power depends on her emotional state as far as where she considers her beauty/love to be at during that particular time.

130 has the best animation, but no emotional weight. If Goku vs Piccolo jr had 130 levels of animation it would probably be one of the best fights in anime history, but it's in the ToP arc, which, to me, automatically decreases its value.

How does it have no emotional weight??

Everyone gets brought back by the Super Dragon Balls at the end. I knew it. You knew it.

[PFM18]

130 has the best animation, but no emotional weight. If Goku vs Piccolo jr had 130 levels of animation it would probably be one of the best fights in anime history, but it's in the ToP arc, which, to me, automatically decreases its value.

How does it have no emotional weight??

Everyone gets brought back by the Super Dragon Balls at the end. I knew it. You knew it.

...but that doesn't even happen in 130? We are talking about that particular episode. But even if we retroactively apply what happens in 131 to 130, that applies to literally every final fight. Piccolo Jr vs Goku and Buu vs Goku you could literally say the same thing. "Goku was going to win. You knew it. I knew it. Piccolo wasn't actually going to take over the world." or in the case of Buu everyone also came back to life. Ultimately, you knew that Goku was going

[RandomGuy96]

The filler-to-plot ratio disparity between the Super manga and the Super anime is not that far off from the filler-to-plot ratio disparity between the post-Raditz DB manga and DBZ anime.

[prince212]

Episodes 130 and 131 of the anime are gold , not just in animation terms , also In Unexpected terms , like android 17 joining the fight at the end of 130 .
That ending of t.o.p arc will be almost impossible to be better in the manga .... if toyo takes a different route will be even better than just follow anime ending , I have my hopes on that because for now t.o.p arc is having nice variations , otherwise will be boring to have a retelling of goku ,a17 and freeza ringing out Jiren.
If toyo made it in future trunks arc successfully I.m.o , he can do it again , but as I said before , it’s not gonna be easy

[1345521]

How does it have no emotional weight??

Everyone gets brought back by the Super Dragon Balls at the end. I knew it. You knew it.

...but that doesn't even happen in 130? We are talking about that particular episode. But even if we retroactively apply what happens in 131 to 130, that applies to literally every final fight. Piccolo Jr vs Goku and Buu vs Goku you could literally say the same thing. "Goku was going to win. You knew it. I knew it. Piccolo wasn't actually going to take over the world." or in the case of Buu everyone also came back to life. Ultimately, you knew that Goku was going

The writing for episode 130 was pitiful.
The power scailing made barley any sense
Jirens back story was trash
The characterization was cringe as usual
You already knew this show is never going to have the stakes of Z, in terms of brining in that emtional weight since the show is primarily targeted for a very young audience unlike db,z and GT so you knew universe 7 was going to win without any loss or really emotional punch. 17 coming out of the rubble kinda confirmed this. He had no blood on him which kinda just shows lack of authenticity which is something Z and db more so always came with when it came to the big fights.
Plus there was no blood so that kinda ruined the intensity, the childesh theme of "friendship" vs "no friends" was an extreme elementary and childesh "IDEOLGICAL" theme to be wavering for these grown men who are fighting for a universe.
That's at least why that fight had no emtional weight for me. It was something cool to look at, but that's about it. And why the heck does jiren has an UI aura if he dosent have UI? Those lack of attention to details hurt. Goku mastering a form in 20 minutes while gods couldn't for 1000s of years was also dumb. Plus this episode had some pretty mediocre cuts as well, mainly towards the begging. All in all, the episode was grest in art and animation for the most part. But everything else is trash. 76/100 for me = worst top chapter in the manga.

[Bergamo]

How does it have no emotional weight??

Everyone gets brought back by the Super Dragon Balls at the end. I knew it. You knew it.

...but that doesn't even happen in 130? We are talking about that particular episode. But even if we retroactively apply what happens in 131 to 130, that applies to literally every final fight. Piccolo Jr vs Goku and Buu vs Goku you could literally say the same thing. "Goku was going to win. You knew it. I knew it. Piccolo wasn't actually going to take over the world." or in the case of Buu everyone also came back to life. Ultimately, you knew that Goku was going

We didn't know if Goku would win the Tenkaichi Budokais, and no one predicted that Popo would use the Earth's dragon balls to revive Namek's dragon balls to save the Namekians. When the reward for erasing the other universes is unerasing the other universes, then that's predictable.

[PFM18]

Everyone gets brought back by the Super Dragon Balls at the end. I knew it. You knew it.

...but that doesn't even happen in 130? We are talking about that particular episode. But even if we retroactively apply what happens in 131 to 130, that applies to literally every final fight. Piccolo Jr vs Goku and Buu vs Goku you could literally say the same thing. "Goku was going to win. You knew it. I knew it. Piccolo wasn't actually going to take over the world." or in the case of Buu everyone also came back to life. Ultimately, you knew that Goku was going

We didn't know if Goku would win the Tenkaichi Budokais, and no one predicted that Popo would use the Earth's dragon balls to revive Namek's dragon balls to save the Namekians. When the reward for erasing the other universes is unerasing the other universes, then that's predictable.

Nobody predicted anything close to the specifics of the ending of the ToP outside of the fact that the Universes would be brought back. On a very basic level, we always know that at the end of the story "everyone is going to be okay", because that is just how these stories are. Whether it be during the 23rd Tenakaichi Budokai or the Buu fight, we know that everyone is going to be fine when the arc is over. The ToP shouldn't be treated any differently. There IS emotional weight because during 130 Jiren and Goku were fighting for their Universes's respective survival. Regardless of what happens afterwards, their lives, and all of their loved ones lives, were at stake during that fight.

[Bergamo]

...but that doesn't even happen in 130? We are talking about that particular episode. But even if we retroactively apply what happens in 131 to 130, that applies to literally every final fight. Piccolo Jr vs Goku and Buu vs Goku you could literally say the same thing. "Goku was going to win. You knew it. I knew it. Piccolo wasn't actually going to take over the world." or in the case of Buu everyone also came back to life. Ultimately, you knew that Goku was going

We didn't know if Goku would win the Tenkaichi Budokais, and no one predicted that Popo would use the Earth's dragon balls to revive Namek's dragon balls to save the Namekians. When the reward for erasing the other universes is unerasing the other universes, then that's predictable.

Nobody predicted anything close to the specifics of the ending of the ToP outside of the fact that the Universes would be brought back. On a very basic level, we always know that at the end of the story "everyone is going to be okay", because that is just how these stories are. Whether it be during the 23rd Tenakaichi Budokai or the Buu fight, we know that everyone is going to be fine when the arc is over. The ToP shouldn't be treated any differently. There IS emotional weight because during 130 Jiren and Goku were fighting for their Universes's respective survival. Regardless of what happens afterwards, their lives, and all of their loved ones lives, were at stake during that fight.

Everyone's life at stake is par for the course. Krillin's death made the Frieza saga more urgent because he could no longer be revived with the Dragon Balls(as far as the audience knew), and Cell resetting the timelines makes beating Cell more important, because even if peace is achieved, he will keep creating new timelines until someone kills him. People being "erased," is meaningless.

[PFM18]

We didn't know if Goku would win the Tenkaichi Budokais, and no one predicted that Popo would use the Earth's dragon balls to revive Namek's dragon balls to save the Namekians. When the reward for erasing the other universes is unerasing the other universes, then that's predictable.

Nobody predicted anything close to the specifics of the ending of the ToP outside of the fact that the Universes would be brought back. On a very basic level, we always know that at the end of the story "everyone is going to be okay", because that is just how these stories are. Whether it be during the 23rd Tenakaichi Budokai or the Buu fight, we know that everyone is going to be fine when the arc is over. The ToP shouldn't be treated any differently. There IS emotional weight because during 130 Jiren and Goku were fighting for their Universes's respective survival. Regardless of what happens afterwards, their lives, and all of their loved ones lives, were at stake during that fight.

Everyone's life at stake is par for the course. Krillin's death made the Frieza saga more urgent because he could no longer be revived with the Dragon Balls(as far as the audience knew), and Cell resetting the timelines makes beating Cell more important, because even if peace is achieved, he will keep creating new timelines until someone kills him. People being "erased," is meaningless.

Well exactly. It is par for the course so this should not be treated any differently than anything else. This does not have any less emotional weight than anything else because the stakes are essentially the same but you know that ultimately everybody is going to be fine when the arc is over.

[Bergamo]

Nobody predicted anything close to the specifics of the ending of the ToP outside of the fact that the Universes would be brought back. On a very basic level, we always know that at the end of the story "everyone is going to be okay", because that is just how these stories are. Whether it be during the 23rd Tenakaichi Budokai or the Buu fight, we know that everyone is going to be fine when the arc is over. The ToP shouldn't be treated any differently. There IS emotional weight because during 130 Jiren and Goku were fighting for their Universes's respective survival. Regardless of what happens afterwards, their lives, and all of their loved ones lives, were at stake during that fight.

Everyone's life at stake is par for the course. Krillin's death made the Frieza saga more urgent because he could no longer be revived with the Dragon Balls(as far as the audience knew), and Cell resetting the timelines makes beating Cell more important, because even if peace is achieved, he will keep creating new timelines until someone kills him. People being "erased," is meaningless.

Well exactly. It is par for the course so this should not be treated any differently than anything else. This does not have any less emotional weight than anything else because the stakes are essentially the same but you know that ultimately everybody is going to be fine when the arc is over.

We didn't used to know if everything was going to be alright. They told us for over 5 volumes that Chaozu was permanently dead. Even in the arcs where we knew everything was going to be alright, we didn't know how or why. The end is literally spelled out for you as soon as the arc starts. I didn't know that a bio android called Cell was going to absorb the androids and then become the new antagonist when I started the android saga, but I knew that the Super Dragon Balls were going to bring back the erased universes.

[1345521]

Nobody predicted anything close to the specifics of the ending of the ToP outside of the fact that the Universes would be brought back. On a very basic level, we always know that at the end of the story "everyone is going to be okay", because that is just how these stories are. Whether it be during the 23rd Tenakaichi Budokai or the Buu fight, we know that everyone is going to be fine when the arc is over. The ToP shouldn't be treated any differently. There IS emotional weight because during 130 Jiren and Goku were fighting for their Universes's respective survival. Regardless of what happens afterwards, their lives, and all of their loved ones lives, were at stake during that fight.

Everyone's life at stake is par for the course. Krillin's death made the Frieza saga more urgent because he could no longer be revived with the Dragon Balls(as far as the audience knew), and Cell resetting the timelines makes beating Cell more important, because even if peace is achieved, he will keep creating new timelines until someone kills him. People being "erased," is meaningless.

Well exactly. It is par for the course so this should not be treated any differently than anything else. This does not have any less emotional weight than anything else because the stakes are essentially the same but you know that ultimately everybody is going to be fine when the arc is over.

Bergamo is literally giving you examples upon examples of how the twist of turns Z made to bring in the tension and emotional weight, and you keep saying "dosent matter, same thing. Dosent matter same thing", while you cant provide any substantial reasons for why we should take 130 seriously other then "universe are getting erased" even though we knew they are coming back and nothing of consequence would happen since the show made us believe nothing of consequence has happened. In Z, people died. Like goku dying against radditzs, WE HAD NO IDEA HOW THE STORY WOULD PLAY OUT. Or when Kuririn died, we didn't know what would happen to him, of he was going to return. Plus when you add the asthetics and music which play to a more urgent tone, it's going to carry more weight. Goku against jiren, the music was engaging and fun, how in the world are we going to take it that seriously? Plus Namek was going to explode so you were wondering how goku was going to make it in time and head back to earth, but to the shock of our audience. It actually looked as if goku died and thTs how we were made to believe. Z was a master of going through so many twist and turns that made the story so unpredictable. Like when the villian finally died, you were kinda paranoid he'd come back again. Hahaha. Super is too predictable and linear.

And again, 130 tried to make things interesting when jiren was going to eliminate gokubut of course goku was saved and you knew in the next episode (last episode) he's somehow going to get back up with "no stamnia" for like the 50th time and somehow make universe 7 win. You already knew that was going to happen when Frieza saved goku. If toei really wanted to raise the stakes, they'd eleiminste goku and allow only Frieza vs jiren which leads to my 2nd point:

ANDORID 17 SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PARACTIPSTE. HE WAS DECLARED DEAD, and should have been eleiminsted. Just like goku was about too, in the one hour special. Hence why it added to the tense atmosphere of Zeno almost pressing that button. So 17 comes out of the rubble (he has no blood or robot parts and his shirt isn't ripped off after doing an attack meant to sacaficenhimself...yes I should Defitnly take this show seriously...smh) and is used to PROGRESS AND THE PLOT. They are using AN PLOTHOLE to help the protagonist win. THATS 101 BAD WRITINF. Because you're cheating the honor of writing just to please the fans. That's REAL BAD WRITING. And it wasn't even like it was addressed, IT WASNT AT ALL. Toei just used a plothole to win the arc. That's disgraceful. If it was Frieza vs jiren as the final battle , the stakes and emotion would have been way more as now the audience don't know what to expect.
And you keep saying Jiren vs goku had some "Depth" to it. Lol. Please tell me what depth this fight had other then " I fight for my friends vs. I don't fight for friends"
Plays jeopardy music
...
Lol, that's such an elementary theme to convey upon grow men who are literally fighting for their existence. And the fact it had to be marketed and told by the characters is pretty childesh. Z (albeit someways unintened by Akira) showed US the morale themes it had through its story line. Not by having character shove down our faces what the take home message is supposed to be. All in all.
130 - 76/100
131 - 72/100

[Rakurai]

Neither are perfect but the manga does a far better job of conveying the sense of chaotic and unpredictable nature of a battle royale.

I'd rather take the legendary Demon Saiyan rampaging across the field taking out the trash than all the universes waiting in line for U7 to eliminate them.

[MKCSTEALTH]

Had it been until the recent chapter, I wouldn't have had such a negative view toward the manga version. But seeing as we got 4 universes erased in one chapter, blowing through several noticeable events, it makes me really feel like Toyotaro is rushing through things to just end it. There have been moments I've liked moreso over the anime, and I initially enjoyed it more as it felt somewhat more like a true battle royal with other universes eliminating each other and it not just being about U7.

It makes me wonder how things would've have been handled had the manga kept pace and been out before the ToP started in the anime. Would we have seen a longer version, or would it still go the same course? I find it fascinating that the manga version of the Future Trunks Arc was so long yet this is rushing by so quickly

[1345521]

Had it been until the recent chapter, I wouldn't have had such a negative view toward the manga version. But seeing as we got 4 universes erased in one chapter, blowing through several noticeable events, it makes me really feel like Toyotaro is rushing through things to just end it. There have been moments I've liked moreso over the anime, and I initially enjoyed it more as it felt somewhat more like a true battle royal with other universes eliminating each other and it not just being about U7.

It makes me wonder how things would've have been handled had the manga kept pace and been out before the ToP started in the anime. Would we have seen a longer version, or would it still go the same course? I find it fascinating that the manga version of the Future Trunks Arc was so long yet this is rushing by so quickly

Maybe his japeanse base likes Broly-like wank. Having 4 universes getting one shootted is not a big deal to me since the chapter excelled in other things. Had we gotten a chapter before like 36 that fleshed out a lot of the fodder fighters... This chapter would been nothing short of amzing...espcially if they kept universe 3 alive and have aniraza play a major role but it didn't, but it was still a good chapter nonethless.
I guess if you didn't like the anime ToP at all, then you wouldn't find this such a big deal. I really disliked the ToP in the anime, I felt it was cringy and stupid so I ain't sweating when I see something like this happen in the manga.

[PsionicWarrior]

You already knew this show is never going to have the stakes of Z, in terms of brining in that emtional weight

As much as I agree with a lot of the criticism addressed towards ToP arc, to their credit they managed to come pretty close with SOME episodes lol
problem is when you get 1 good episode out of 10, you are pissed off by the 9 that were crap, had 10 out of 10 been bad you'd just stop watching the show problem solved lol
Super anime globally has been a strong emotional elevator going up and down to me lol

it makes me really feel like Toyotaro is rushing through things to just end it.

Toyotaro or Toei is what I'd like to know lol

[1345521]

You already knew this show is never going to have the stakes of Z, in terms of brining in that emtional weight

As much as I agree with a lot of the criticism addressed towards ToP arc, to their credit they managed to come pretty close with SOME episodes lol
problem is when you get 1 good episode out of 10, you are pissed off by the 9 that were crap, had 10 out of 10 been bad you'd just stop watching the show problem solved lol
Super anime globally has been a strong emotional elevator going up and down to me lol

it makes me really feel like Toyotaro is rushing through things to just end it.

Toyotaro or Toei is what I'd like to know lol

Not in my eyes. the BEST episode of the ToP was an 85/100 to me. Which is like as good as an aerage manga chapter. An average manga chapter to me is about an 86/100 so... the 1 hour special was good..but not that great. and it was my favorite episode of the arc.

[Bergamo]

I have a question for people who don't like Chapter 38. Humor me for a moment and imagine that next chapter Gohan and Kefla is great. Then, imagine that Goku vs Jiren is also really good. While you are reading those fights, will you be thinking, "Man I wish we could have got more of the fighters from other universes." If you ever reread the manga, will you be thinking, "I've been reading this arc since volume 5, and I'm currently on volume 8, but I wish this arc took more time to flesh out the fighters from other universes before we get to the main event." I'm of the mindset that these fighters could have been used for more, but they won't be missed.

[1345521]

I have a question for people who don't like Chapter 38. Humor me for a moment and imagine that next chapter Gohan and Kefla is great. Then, imagine that Goku vs Jiren is also really good. While you are reading those fights, will you be thinking, "Man I wish we could have got more of the fighters from other universes." If you ever reread the manga, will you be thinking, "I've been reading this arc since volume 5, and I'm currently on volume 8, but I wish this arc took more time to flesh out the fighters from other universes before we get to the main event." I'm of the mindset that these fighters could have been used for more, but they won't be missed.

No, because in their opinions. Anime already did an amazing with the ending, so even if the manga is on the level (which to them, I doubt it will) of the anime towards the climax, it still wouldn't make them forget how the manga waisted many character which really irritated them. And to their sentiment, I agree. This manga wasted some interesting characters which hurt it in my opinion, what's the point of keeping these characters to half way point just to eleiminate them with no shine? Again, I think it's more of rushed deadline for this broly movie then anything else and plus toyotaro excelled in so many other things with this tournment that that's as all infraction for me. But to people who are bias for the anime, that's going to be a huge and nigh-irredeemable mark.

Toyotaro is going to have conclude this ToP with like Some Z level action, db level writing and GT last episode sentiment to make the main-line famdom forgive toyotaro of waisting so many chrarCtrs