Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[AnimeNation101]

And this whole discussion reminds me of this quote from an interview in May 2017.

Q: Some time ago, he said you are the most faithful mangaka to his work and style. He even said that you, today, have a dynamism that he claims to have lost; he prompted you to express freely, stating that he would be very curious about the final result. How did you take it?

T: Letting me go. And even if, for a fan like me, it feels great to have Toriyama's approvation on more traditional drawings, some of my greatest satisfactions stem from seeing him approve my original ideas: new moves, new expressions. And something else, in the future.

Unless I’ve missed something, i don’t think we’ve seen this “something else” Toyo-boyo speaks of. Perhaps once the DBS manga passes the anime, Toriyama gives Toyo-boyo a shot at his own arc.

I don’t know how someone who sucks at filling in the blanks of an already planned story can make a good original story but who knows? Maybe he would do better with his own story since he has full control. Or maybe the next arc has not just Toriyama, Toei, and Shueisha’s Dragon Ball Room, but even Toyotaro joins the round table of arc brainstorming.

I can say that i do kind of expect a manga trailer like the of we got for the Universe Survival Arc for this year’s Jump Festa of the next dbs arc by the manga.

[Shaddy]

Okay, can you answer me this: Why is ssj god vegeta in movie while having no sign of kaioken and evolution....?

Because Toriyama didn't write that. He wrote God Veggie for this movie, but he didn't write Kaioken and evolution. Toyotaro doesn't own the concept of God Vegeta, and he didn't invent it either. Toriyama also didn't create Bardock, does that mean that his DB Minus and the Bardock special somehow have to exist in the same canon now?

You do realize akira spoken publically of how much he prefers toyotaro manga over the anime? He even said he WISHED (This was like in 2016 before toyotaro even got popular or his manga got even that good) toei would adapt his manga to keep them "on track".

And?

Akira has never once gone publicly and said he likes toei super or even complemeneted the toei staff on super publicaly.

MISTER AKIRRRA NEVER SAID HE LIKES PIZZA TO THE PRESS! LET'S US ALL OF US SHAME HIM FOR BEING SUCH A PIZZZA-HATERING FUCKWAD!

and toyotaro is an writer, he's the WRITER for the manga. you're acting like someone tells toyo what to do and he just draws it. Lol, he is just given a plot outline and has to find a way to build an arc from it.

When did I say anything like that? It's also literally the exact same outline as he gives to Toei. These things were made to be different interpretations from conception. That's why Toriyama (note: you call him by his full name or his last name if you actually want to look respectful) didn't write everything himself.

I don't think he's struggling THAT much to get through this arc, this manga arc is fine but you can come to the manga forum if you want to debate about it. since I dont want to get in trouble again.

SSJ GOD vegeta is in the movie, NO KAIOKEN OR EVOLUTION. It's step one, and plus if the manga surpasses the movie (which will probably be in about a year depending on how long the manga broly arc is), that'll seal it.

You're acting like toei wouldn't have gotten all of those exbhorbant amount of dollars if they adapted the manga, lol.

Well, first off I'm not acting like that, but considering the manga didn't exist, I'd say no, they wouldn't. My point however, is that they have no reason to change their behavior in regards to how they create the series' story as long as it's making them as much money as it is.

And you're also actig as if toei has this grudge,uncertaintiy,pessism, or lack of respect when it comes to toyotaro.

Once again, no I'm not, you've repeatedly prefaced statements with false representations of others' opinions to make them easier to attack. That's what a strawman is. Cut that shit out if you actually want to be taken seriously. Moreover, Toyo has way more time to create his manga than Toriyama ever did, and there's still pretty consistent issues with anatomy and general quality in the art that weren't there with DB. This thing will be at the end of the ToP in like, a year? Why would Toei wait to adapt something that Toriyama was giving them right from the outset just because it's technically a manga first, and the first Dragon Ball manga Toriyama ever had a hand in producing that people, even debatably, say is worse than their anime? It doesn't even fully include one of the five major arcs that make up the story.

The only reason toei went ahead is because toyo was an baby mangaka when super first aired, plus the manga only came out an month before the anime, so it wasn't expdient to take their chances with toyotaro and verbatum adapt his manga.

And your proof of this is what, exactly? Has anyone on staff ever said anything remotely to this degree, or is it just conjecture you're using to better serve your incredibly flawed statement? I'm pretty sure the decision was made for a new anime to exist first and foremost, which is why the manga wasn't done beforehand and indeed feels like an afterthought. That's why it's promotional material and not the main event, AKA the anime.

But anyway, toei aired on a child timeslot, so it would be diffuclt for them to adapt a lot of the things in the manga anyway since its content is suitable for their television adueicnce and since they were already ahead, no point of adding tons of filler so you can adapt some manga in which you wont be able to adapt well since you have to cut out a lot of stuff just to adapt it.

If you somehow think Toei is above adding mountains of filler and padding to their most successful property, you must have never watched a single episode of One Piece.

If toei comes back, with the manga being an entire ARC ahead. Plus toei gets put into an television timeslot of like wendsay nights in the evning. You REALLY THINK TOEI is going to cross their arms and say "I'm not adaptinng his work because muh PRIDE"? HAHAHAHAHAHA. Toei WILL POUNCE On the oppertunity and adapt it.

But they're not doing that? Nobody's doing that. Everything is still coming from Toriyama, what story has he given Toyotaro that he hasn't given Toei? More importantly, do you know how long pre-production is on these shows? Because it's a lot longer than the one month Toyo gets for each chapter of the manga. It can be more than half a year at times, and the meager two months Super got were what kickstarted the animation and schedule troubles the show was plagued with throughout it's run.

Becuase A.
It's EASIER

No it isn't. You need screenwriters for any anime, adaptation or not. Source material is only as important as every other aspect of the production being good, a bad production does nothing for good source material. Look at Berserk.

B.
The quality of production is usally better when animes adapt manga: FACTS.
Bleach
One peice
Naurto
nARUTO SHIPIDEN
Brouto
One punch man
Hero acdemia
Dragon ball
Dragon ball Z
7 DEADLY SINS
ATTACK ON TIATIONS
full metal alcehmist
Hunter X hunter
ALL ADAPT MANGA, cause it's easier on the animation team and usally the work is MUCH better. Super didn't because IMO the timeslots, the uncertaintiy of toyotaro at that time, and becuase how far ahead it is. Nothing ill willed against toyo. And akira likes toyo as shown.

Okay, there's a lot to unpack here, but let's just throw out the whole suitcase. Besides the whole "no facts at all" and "half these anime are horribly produced" aspects of it, there is not a single goddamned thing about any of these shows that was either easy or easier for production than a show with no direct source material.Every show has a million different bits of work and jobs that each person involved has to do, and the only thing a source material provides is a basic plot outline and something for people to compare it to. It doesn't make it easier for the animators, because the manga isn't animated and they're not just tracing stills. It doesn't make it easier for directors, since tv shows have to move, have sound and color, need good storyboards, interesting visual effects, and pacing that works for a 22-minute cartoon. It gives writers an outline for their story, but does not account at all for pacing, visual (well, animated) storytelling, or any possible improvements that could be made on the source material. The timeslot effects none of this, I might add.

You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. I don't even consider myself a very hardcore fan of anime and even I can see so many things wrong with this statement that I am honestly impressed you can be this sure of yourself with such a broken idea of how animated television comes together.

THIS Broly movie seems to be incorpting some ideas that were in the manga but not in the tv show, now again.

Toyotaro did not invent the idea of Vegeta using Super Saiyan God. That is literally the only thing that "proves" any of your statements and it is completely fucking flimsy.

It' really comes down to if akioken and evolution will be in the movie.

No, it doesn't.

So if this broly movi DOSEN'T HAVE THEM, and toei comes back and gets itself into a better and mature timeslot of where they can adapt manga and toyotaro manga is far ahead of the anime... There's a LIKELY chance they are going to adapt the manga. Very likely chance, because when they were behind the manga during like pre universe 6 arc, they used some panels from the manga. But it just depends on the future of this broly movie really.

Are you actually insane?

[Cetra]

Oh. Thanks. not sure why Cetra didnt just say the english word.

I've also noticed people have started using "Saiyajin" regularly now too. Japanese friends I talk to type "Saiyan" and abbreviations like SS2, SSG etc with no J's like Westerners like to add. It's really bizarre why Westerners do that.

No, it is not bizarre. Dragon Ball in German never uses the word "Saiyan", they simply say "Saiyajin" and I have mentioned about 10 times in 4 years that I am German. Also I do not like using terms like Ultra Instinct or Rage so I simply use the original term. Having using Ikari already I used Densetsu to not break with the rest of the post and used Densetsu.

[BlueBasilisk]

I wonder, what if Super Saiyajin Broly (who seems not to have any pupils as well) was made based on Super Saiyajin Ikari? So maybe that one is not an ordinary SSJ, but Ikari and then next is Densetsu.

I wonder if that was the form Kale was using in the last two manga chapters rather than Full Power? The white eyes and incredible strength Broly shows in that form make it less clear.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

And this whole discussion reminds me of this quote from an interview in May 2017.

Q: Some time ago, he said you are the most faithful mangaka to his work and style. He even said that you, today, have a dynamism that he claims to have lost; he prompted you to express freely, stating that he would be very curious about the final result. How did you take it?

T: Letting me go. And even if, for a fan like me, it feels great to have Toriyama's approvation on more traditional drawings, some of my greatest satisfactions stem from seeing him approve my original ideas: new moves, new expressions. And something else, in the future.

Unless I’ve missed something, i don’t think we’ve seen this “something else” Toyo-boyo speaks of. Perhaps once the DBS manga passes the anime, Toriyama gives Toyo-boyo a shot at his own arc.

I don’t know how someone who sucks at filling in the blanks of an already planned story can make a good original story but who knows? Maybe he would do better with his own story since he has full control. Or maybe the next arc has not just Toriyama, Toei, and Shueisha’s Dragon Ball Room, but even Toyotaro joins the round table of arc brainstorming.

I can say that i do kind of expect a manga trailer like the of we got for the Universe Survival Arc for this year’s Jump Festa of the next dbs arc by the manga.

I am pretty sure he is talking about adapting the Broly movie like Toriyama said earlier, Kafla is about to fight in the Manga & there is 4 more chapters until December that will probably take one chapter leaving three for him to wrap up the U.S arc in time for December. There isn't any room for him to do his own thing and who knows by the time Toyo finishes the Broly adaptation the show could very well be back on the air.

[JazzMazz]

[spoiler][/spoiler]
Broly Savage design has been revealed in at least somewhat HQ quality.

What do people think of up close? Know some people didn't like it initially, but how do people think after seeing the designs in (sort of) decent quality?

Have to say, like how they fixed the nose from the fully savage and full power Broly, looks much better here. The use of highlights is also nice and tasteful I feel. On another note, like how the back armour is at least somewhat unique.

[Gt91]

[spoiler][/spoiler]
Broly Savage design has been revealed in at least somewhat HQ quality.

What do people think of up close? Know some people didn't like it initially, but how do people think after seeing the designs in (sort of) decent quality?

Have to say, like how they fixed the nose from the fully savage and full power Broly, looks much better here. The use of highlights is also nice and tasteful I feel. On another note, like how the back armour is at least somewhat unique.

This reminds me a ss4.

[1345521]

And this whole discussion reminds me of this quote from an interview in May 2017.

Q: Some time ago, he said you are the most faithful mangaka to his work and style. He even said that you, today, have a dynamism that he claims to have lost; he prompted you to express freely, stating that he would be very curious about the final result. How did you take it?

T: Letting me go. And even if, for a fan like me, it feels great to have Toriyama's approvation on more traditional drawings, some of my greatest satisfactions stem from seeing him approve my original ideas: new moves, new expressions. And something else, in the future.

Unless I’ve missed something, i don’t think we’ve seen this “something else” Toyo-boyo speaks of. Perhaps once the DBS manga passes the anime, Toriyama gives Toyo-boyo a shot at his own arc.

I don’t know how someone who sucks at filling in the blanks of an already planned story can make a good original story but who knows? Maybe he would do better with his own story since he has full control. Or maybe the next arc has not just Toriyama, Toei, and Shueisha’s Dragon Ball Room, but even Toyotaro joins the round table of arc brainstorming.

I can say that i do kind of expect a manga trailer like the of we got for the Universe Survival Arc for this year’s Jump Festa of the next dbs arc by the manga.

Wait, toei gets a seat in the room but toyotaro dosent? That's stupid...wait a minute. Even Akira dosent waist his time going to petty meetings such as those "rooms". Toyo-GOAT is just doing the same thing. Lol.

I really wonder what shuiesha, toyotaros boss I presume. Think of toyotaro. I don't think Akira would really mind handing the series to toyotaro once he's finished with dragon ball... Nor do I think toei would give a squat either. But would those sueshia supervisors, would they trust him to lead the way for dragon ball. Hm... I really wonder. Nah...they would. If the day toyotaro takes the mantel, I'm sure they'd just assign some editors to toyotaro like Akira used to have. I don't think Akira has any editors now, that guy he called an "editor" in his statement for the movie, isn't he like a big Whig in the dragon ball deperstment of sueshia. Nagamine or something, it's like only him who has acess to Akira, a few big time directors and of course his CHOSEN ONE SUCESSOR.

I'm really going to research more on this dynamic of Akira -shuiesha (and Toyo) - toei
Toyotaro is akiras sucessor for a reason, so one day he has to take the thrown right?
And what is shuiesha role with this broly movie? Does anybody know?

[VegettoEX]

1345521: Please put more effort into your posts; they are borderline unreadable.

And what is shuiesha role with this broly movie? Does anybody know?

Shueisha is the ultimate rights-holder over the Dragon Ball franchise. Dragon Ball was created for Shueisha.

Akio Iyoku, for example, is figurehead within Shueisha, currently serving as both editor-in-chief of its V-Jump magazine and as the head of its interdepartmental "Dragon Ball Room", not to mention as a public figure speaking for the new film.

Shaddy: Excessive back-and-forths and antagonistic attitudes do not live up to the spirit of our community guidelines, and a strike has been issued against your account. Account strikes add up to temporary/permanent bans, which revoke access to the entirety of the Kanzenshuu website.

All would do well to review said community guidelines.

[1345521]

1345521: Please put more effort into your posts; they are borderline unreadable.

And what is shuiesha role with this broly movie? Does anybody know?

Shueisha is the ultimate rights-holder over the Dragon Ball franchise. Dragon Ball was created for Shueisha.

Akio Iyoku, for example, is figurehead within Shueisha, currently serving as both editor-in-chief of its V-Jump magazine and as the head of its interdepartmental "Dragon Ball Room", not to mention as a public figure speaking for the new film.

Shaddy: Excessive back-and-forths and antagonistic attitudes do not live up to the spirit of our community guidelines, and a strike has been issued against your account. Account strikes add up to temporary/permanent bans, which revoke access to the entirety of the Kanzenshuu website.

All would do well to review said community guidelines.

Sorry chief, these spell checks are such garbage on my phone. I'll be more aware.

Wow, I didn't know. I just thought shuiesha owned the manga rights to the frnachise not the ultimate right-holder.
So did Akira work for sueshia or was just an independent body who sold his work to shueisha?

Hm...so this guy iyoku is the big boss of everything. So what power or influence does Akira have? And who is this nagamine dude I've been hearing about.
Very interesting. I'm going to research some stuff about this. Thanks for information.

[BlueBasilisk]

Aren't we being presumptuous declaring that Toriyama will or won't write something just because it wasn't his idea originally? A month ago I saw people getting roundly mocked for even suggesting that Saiyan might be Broly because he's Toei-original trash, but here we are with Toriyama making Broly canon as well as Paragus and apparently attempting to stay faithful to the spirit of their characters in a film that looks to be drawing heavily from movies 8 and 10 and possibly even 11. Before that he adopted Bardock into his story, and in Super we have so many examples of him taking ideas that were suggested by Toei or Toyotaro like Vegito Blue or Kale or the Pride Troopers being super heroes.

After the Broly announcement I saw a bunch of people trying to scapegoat Toriyama's editor for suggesting Broly while conveniently ignoring a previous interview where I believe it was someone at Toei said they pitched multiple movie ideas that he rejected before biting on a Saiyan story.

Fandoms have are weird making up narratives about the creators. If you listened to half the shit the fandom says you'd think Toei was some maverick studio making bootleg dragon ball products and blaspheming against Toriyama who's powerless to stop them while he's holding Toyotaro's hand to dictate his every pen stroke and whispering in his ear that he's the real chad that Dragon Ball needs. Toei aren't enemies and they aren't jealous children fighting for daddy Toriyama's approval. They're all working together to make new Dragon Ball stuff .

Toei and Toyotaro have no trouble borrowing stuff from each others' work that they like. The mechanic behind Mastered Super Saiyan Blue was taken straight from Whis' ki control training in the Resurrection F arc in the anime, and the return of Super Saiyan God in 104 borrows heavily from the Goku vs Hit fight in the manga's U6 arc. Toyotaro references a lot of Toei-original stuff in the manga like the plaza from Wrath of the Dragon appearing in the Future Trunks arc or his explanation of the 'demon saiyan' in this last chapter which borrows from Vegeta's story in the namek arc and I'm pretty sure it somehow adds in a dubism too. Toyotaro even drew Rage Trunks with the Spirit Sword for one of the manga's special covers and neither of those were ever in the manga. They're not enemies and I haven't seen any evidence that they aren't happy collaborating with each other to make more DB. It's the fans that pit them against each other in their war to prove their favorite adaptation is the One True Canon and to discredit the one they don't like and the opinions of its fans.

Which brings us to that Super Saiyan God Vegeta. What we know is that he'll use it in the movie. That's it. We don't know who put it in the movie or why. Toriyama mentioned the movie would have plenty of fan service, so if it was him that put it in he could have added it for Vegeta fans since its' been requested and was overall well-received when it appeared in the manga. Or Nagamine or Shintani or someone else working on the anime because they liked it like the SSG Goku mentioned previously. Or hell, for all we know Toyotaro could have suggested it or requested it be put in the movie to satisfy fan expectations like he did with Vegito Blue. Any of these are equally possible given all that we've seen and heard about Dragon Ball's plotting and production over the last three years.

But the fandom sees it and immediately whips up this narrative that Toriyama is cracking down on Toei and forcing them to follow the manga continuity as the One True Canon despite Toei being the one to pitch the movie to him in the first place and despite Toriyama already saying the movie is the next story for the tv series and he's looking forward to seeing the plot develop differently than the manga. It's not enough to think they're just borrowing from one another to please and excite the fans. Everything has to be interpreted through the western fandom's lens for the war for the one true canon. I saw manga fans immediately start using that drawing to shit on anime fans despite it having no further context. It's ridiculous.

[dbgtFO]

[spoiler]Aren't we being presumptuous declaring that Toriyama will or won't write something just because it wasn't his idea originally? A month ago I saw people getting roundly mocked for even suggesting that Saiyan might be Broly because he's Toei-original trash, but here we are with Toriyama making Broly canon as well as Paragus and apparently attempting to stay faithful to the spirit of their characters in a film that looks to be drawing heavily from movies 8 and 10 and possibly even 11. Before that he adopted Bardock into his story, and in Super we have so many examples of him taking ideas that were suggested by Toei or Toyotaro like Vegito Blue or Kale or the Pride Troopers being super heroes.

After the Broly announcement I saw a bunch of people trying to scapegoat Toriyama's editor for suggesting Broly while conveniently ignoring a previous interview where I believe it was someone at Toei said they pitched multiple movie ideas that he rejected before biting on a Saiyan story.

Fandoms have are weird making up narratives about the creators. If you listened to half the shit the fandom says you'd think Toei was some maverick studio making bootleg dragon ball products and blaspheming against Toriyama who's powerless to stop them while he's holding Toyotaro's hand to dictate his every pen stroke and whispering in his ear that he's the real chad that Dragon Ball needs. Toei aren't enemies and they aren't jealous children fighting for daddy Toriyama's approval. They're all working together to make new Dragon Ball stuff .

Toei and Toyotaro have no trouble borrowing stuff from each others' work that they like. The mechanic behind Mastered Super Saiyan Blue was taken straight from Whis' ki control training in the Resurrection F arc in the anime, and the return of Super Saiyan God in 104 borrows heavily from the Goku vs Hit fight in the manga's U6 arc. Toyotaro references a lot of Toei-original stuff in the manga like the plaza from Wrath of the Dragon appearing in the Future Trunks arc or his explanation of the 'demon saiyan' in this last chapter which borrows from Vegeta's story in the namek arc and I'm pretty sure it somehow adds in a dubism too. Toyotaro even drew Rage Trunks with the Spirit Sword for one of the manga's special covers and neither of those were ever in the manga. They're not enemies and I haven't seen any evidence that they aren't happy collaborating with each other to make more DB. It's the fans that pit them against each other in their war to prove their favorite adaptation is the One True Canon and to discredit the one they don't like and the opinions of its fans.

Which brings us to that Super Saiyan God Vegeta. What we know is that he'll use it in the movie. That's it. We don't know who put it in the movie or why. Toriyama mentioned the movie would have plenty of fan service, so if it was him that put it in he could have added it for Vegeta fans since its' been requested and was overall well-received when it appeared in the manga. Or Nagamine or Shintani or someone else working on the anime because they liked it like the SSG Goku mentioned previously. Or hell, for all we know Toyotaro could have suggested it or requested it be put in the movie to satisfy fan expectations like he did with Vegito Blue. Any of these are equally possible given all that we've seen and heard about Dragon Ball's plotting and production over the last three years.

But the fandom sees it and immediately whips up this narrative that Toriyama is cracking down on Toei and forcing them to follow the manga continuity as the One True Canon despite Toei being the one to pitch the movie to him in the first place and despite Toriyama already saying the movie is the next story for the tv series and he's looking forward to seeing the plot develop differently than the manga. It's not enough to think they're just borrowing from one another to please and excite the fans. Everything has to be interpreted through the western fandom's lens for the war for the one true canon. I saw manga fans immediately start using that drawing to shit on anime fans despite it having no further context. It's ridiculous.[/spoiler]

Well said.
Also made me LOL at times, so thanks for that

[1345521]

Aren't we being presumptuous declaring that Toriyama will or won't write something just because it wasn't his idea originally? A month ago I saw people getting roundly mocked for even suggesting that Saiyan might be Broly because he's Toei-original trash, but here we are with Toriyama making Broly canon as well as Paragus and apparently attempting to stay faithful to the spirit of their characters in a film that looks to be drawing heavily from movies 8 and 10 and possibly even 11. Before that he adopted Bardock into his story, and in Super we have so many examples of him taking ideas that were suggested by Toei or Toyotaro like Vegito Blue or Kale or the Pride Troopers being super heroes.

After the Broly announcement I saw a bunch of people trying to scapegoat Toriyama's editor for suggesting Broly while conveniently ignoring a previous interview where I believe it was someone at Toei said they pitched multiple movie ideas that he rejected before biting on a Saiyan story.

Fandoms have are weird making up narratives about the creators. If you listened to half the shit the fandom says you'd think Toei was some maverick studio making bootleg dragon ball products and blaspheming against Toriyama who's powerless to stop them while he's holding Toyotaro's hand to dictate his every pen stroke and whispering in his ear that he's the real chad that Dragon Ball needs. Toei aren't enemies and they aren't jealous children fighting for daddy Toriyama's approval. They're all working together to make new Dragon Ball stuff .

Toei and Toyotaro have no trouble borrowing stuff from each others' work that they like. The mechanic behind Mastered Super Saiyan Blue was taken straight from Whis' ki control training in the Resurrection F arc in the anime, and the return of Super Saiyan God in 104 borrows heavily from the Goku vs Hit fight in the manga's U6 arc. Toyotaro references a lot of Toei-original stuff in the manga like the plaza from Wrath of the Dragon appearing in the Future Trunks arc or his explanation of the 'demon saiyan' in this last chapter which borrows from Vegeta's story in the namek arc and I'm pretty sure it somehow adds in a dubism too. Toyotaro even drew Rage Trunks with the Spirit Sword for one of the manga's special covers and neither of those were ever in the manga. They're not enemies and I haven't seen any evidence that they aren't happy collaborating with each other to make more DB. It's the fans that pit them against each other in their war to prove their favorite adaptation is the One True Canon and to discredit the one they don't like and the opinions of its fans.

Which brings us to that Super Saiyan God Vegeta. What we know is that he'll use it in the movie. That's it. We don't know who put it in the movie or why. Toriyama mentioned the movie would have plenty of fan service, so if it was him that put it in he could have added it for Vegeta fans since its' been requested and was overall well-received when it appeared in the manga. Or Nagamine or Shintani or someone else working on the anime because they liked it like the SSG Goku mentioned previously. Or hell, for all we know Toyotaro could have suggested it or requested it be put in the movie to satisfy fan expectations like he did with Vegito Blue. Any of these are equally possible given all that we've seen and heard about Dragon Ball's plotting and production over the last three years.

But the fandom sees it and immediately whips up this narrative that Toriyama is cracking down on Toei and forcing them to follow the manga continuity as the One True Canon despite Toei being the one to pitch the movie to him in the first place and despite Toriyama already saying the movie is the next story for the tv series and he's looking forward to seeing the plot develop differently than the manga. It's not enough to think they're just borrowing from one another to please and excite the fans. Everything has to be interpreted through the western fandom's lens for the war for the one true canon. I saw manga fans immediately start using that drawing to shit on anime fans despite it having no further context. It's ridiculous.

You're kinda being bias because super anime fans do the same thing. They keep calling toyotaro just promotional manga that's not meant to be taken seriously at all.

Point is, manga fans want the anime to go back to its roots and adapt manga.
Anime fan rather want to keep things as is, or get toyotaro replaced and bring someone in who won't deviate to much from the anime.

That's why the infighting happens, and you got to quote that link again. Akira was just speaking in general...like this movie takes place AFTER the ToP arc. And the manga is going to keep going as well... So look forward to its devolpment of the ToP arc and beyond. It doesn't mean the movie will be differnt then the manga. I personally think it's going to be:
Movie continuity
Manga continuity
Anime comes back and re adapts the movie to fit ITS Contitnity.
This movie is just kinda summary version of the arcs in manga and potentially anime versions. That's what I think will happen:
But I HOPE it's this movie will help promote the toyotaro manga, so people can buy his manga to see extra details of the movie. Then the anime comes back and either reboots super to fit the manga or just adapts toyotaro manga since sueshia, toei and Akira want toyotaro manga to be source material for toei. Because suiesha employees (toyotaro) run the manga, so it should lead the way and toei follows suit, adding as they please but follow after the manga. Here's what I think would be the best:
Shueisha (toyos manga) be the source material for toei to adapt.
But toei, Akira and shuehsia big wigs formulate what the plot outline includes. Though I doubt that's going to happen since Akira seems to write the plot outlines...this is to confusing darn.

AKIRA (and whoever helps him make those plot outlines) give the outline to toyotaro. Toyotaro makes the manga and toei just adapts it. THERE!

[GodVegetto91]

Honestly, it makes me really mad that they have not shown any designs or even hints of SSBE, SSJ Blue Kaioken or even Ultra Instinct for that matter. What’s the purpose behind all this secrecy? I know Ultra Instinct at the very least should appear in this movie, and i won’t take him “not appearing” for an answer. So any other excuses for why they aren’t showing them yet?

We do have a confirmed SSG Vegeta though, which is really weird that they revealed him but not his Blue Evolution form.

If Ultra Instinct Goku is not going to appear in this movie i won’t be watching it. Simple as that. They should know that the fans actively desire and prefer him. And i know Toei is all about fanservice because fanservice means money ofcourse.

[PsychoXander]

If Ultra Instinct Goku is not going to appear in this movie i won’t be watching it. Simple as that. They should know that the fans actively desire and prefer him. And i know Toei is all about fanservice because fanservice means money ofcourse.

It's not really a reasaonable thing to do as a DB fan.

[emperior]

Then the anime comes back and either reboots super to fit the manga or just adapts toyotaro manga since sueshia, toei and Akira want toyotaro manga to be source material for toei. Because suiesha employees (toyotaro) run the manga, so it should lead the way and toei follows suit, adding as they please but follow after the manga. Here's what I think would be the best:
Shueisha (toyos manga) be the source material for toei to adapt.
But toei, Akira and shuehsia big wigs formulate what the plot outline includes. Though I doubt that's going to happen since Akira seems to write the plot outlines...this is to confusing darn.

AKIRA (and whoever helps him make those plot outlines) give the outline to toyotaro. Toyotaro makes the manga and toei just adapts it. THERE!

Again, the anime won’t get a reboot. There is no need for it to get one. It could get a retelling of the movie but even that may not happen, as the movie is still Super (and not Z) and there won’t be the need to readapt it as there was for readapting BoG and as a consequence RoF too. It’s also possible that Toriyama suggested re adapting the movies because he still hadn’t finished his outline for the U6 arc, but there’s no proof of that.
As there is no proof that Toriyama, Shueisha or even Toei want Toyotaro’s manga to be adapted as the anime. Literally no proof. And the anime, unlike the manga, has been a financial success so there’s no reason why they shouldn’t continue it, unless Toriyama decides to write only movies, at which point even Toyotaro would find himself in a difficult spot as they wouldn’t let him get ahead of the movies, and he can milk out each movie only so much. And if Super continues with movies only, do not expect to see more than one every 11-12 months.

What’s most likely to happen is that the anime comes back as a weekly show, finally well planned and with a great schedule so that the quality can stay consistently good for many years. In the meanwhile, they have planned this new movie out to keep Dragon Ball’s momentum, to promote the new look of the serie, to also polish the new designs and everything else better so that the new show can also benefit from it, and to also give Toriyama the time to complete next story outlines. Of course they needed time for all of this to happen, and of course they decided to have Kitaro running on Super’s time slot for 50+ episodes to ensure they can plan the next show as safely as possible.

Keep in mind that ever since Super started, DB as a franchise has seen enormous increases and profits, surpassing both One Piece and Gundam by a wide margin in a little time. Something which didn’t happen with BoG and RoF. I think it’s clear that a weekly show will be more profitable and all evidence points towards DBS coming back as a weekly show in the future (eg. Toriyama’s statement about the weekly show “ending for the time being”).

“Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live-action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I’m complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much I can’t leave it alone”
Toriyama has taken things into his hands, as the choice to change Dragon Ball’s look has probably come from him. Or at least from his complaining. We know that in 2016 (which is around when Toriyama’s complains became public) the Dragon Ball Room was created and in spring 2017 they gave Toriyama new ideas for the movie, and the script was finalized a few months later, in June-July (it was confirmed in the latest DBMFL article). So, at the very least, the designs have been in the works since way back then. This new movie is the evident result of a lot of planning happening to ensure DB can be as good as possible so that it also meets Toriyama’s expectations. (http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... interview/)

[MoscoSama]

How have multiple threads descended into anime vs manga bickering?


Sorry if this has been talked about already in this thread but i'm too lazy to go through all these pages so I would love to know what you guys think.

Do you guys think Brolys spiky black hair state (rage) is this movies equivalent of his restricted ssj form from movie 8 or just his base form fully unleashed? Whatever theories you guys have , shoot em

[1345521]

Then the anime comes back and either reboots super to fit the manga or just adapts toyotaro manga since sueshia, toei and Akira want toyotaro manga to be source material for toei. Because suiesha employees (toyotaro) run the manga, so it should lead the way and toei follows suit, adding as they please but follow after the manga. Here's what I think would be the best:
Shueisha (toyos manga) be the source material for toei to adapt.
But toei, Akira and shuehsia big wigs formulate what the plot outline includes. Though I doubt that's going to happen since Akira seems to write the plot outlines...this is to confusing darn.

AKIRA (and whoever helps him make those plot outlines) give the outline to toyotaro. Toyotaro makes the manga and toei just adapts it. THERE!

Again, the anime won’t get a reboot. There is no need for it to get one. It could get a retelling of the movie but even that may not happen, as the movie is still Super (and not Z) and there won’t be the need to readapt it as there was for readapting BoG and as a consequence RoF too. It’s also possible that Toriyama suggested re adapting the movies because he still hadn’t finished his outline for the U6 arc, but there’s no proof of that.
As there is no proof that Toriyama, Shueisha or even Toei want Toyotaro’s manga to be adapted as the anime. Literally no proof. And the anime, unlike the manga, has been a financial success so there’s no reason why they shouldn’t continue it, unless Toriyama decides to write only movies, at which point even Toyotaro would find himself in a difficult spot as they wouldn’t let him get ahead of the movies, and he can milk out each movie only so much. And if Super continues with movies only, do not expect to see more than one every 11-12 months.

What’s most likely to happen is that the anime comes back as a weekly show, finally well planned and with a great schedule so that the quality can stay consistently good for many years. In the meanwhile, they have planned this new movie out to keep Dragon Ball’s momentum, to promote the new look of the serie, to also polish the new designs and everything else better so that the new show can also benefit from it, and to also give Toriyama the time to complete next story outlines. Of course they needed time for all of this to happen, and of course they decided to have Kitaro running on Super’s time slot for 50+ episodes to ensure they can plan the next show as safely as possible.

Keep in mind that ever since Super started, DB as a franchise has seen enormous increases and profits, surpassing both One Piece and Gundam by a wide margin in a little time. Something which didn’t happen with BoG and RoF. I think it’s clear that a weekly show will be more profitable and all evidence points towards DBS coming back as a weekly show in the future (eg. Toriyama’s statement about the weekly show “ending for the time being”).

“Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live-action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I’m complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much I can’t leave it alone”
Toriyama has taken things into his hands, as the choice to change Dragon Ball’s look has probably come from him. Or at least from his complaining. We know that in 2016 (which is around when Toriyama’s complains became public) the Dragon Ball Room was created and in spring 2017 they gave Toriyama new ideas for the movie, and the script was finalized a few months later, in June-July (it was confirmed in the latest DBMFL article). So, at the very least, the designs have been in the works since way back then. This new movie is the evident result of a lot of planning happening to ensure DB can be as good as possible so that it also meets Toriyama’s expectations. (http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... interview/)

If they can make Kai, they Defitnly can make a reboot to super with better planning, animation, art style, voice acting, a lot less censorship, writing, power scailing and etc. all the things that would most likely come if adapated supers manga.
2nd, Akira has made it clear he wished they adapated the manga.
Sueshia (along with Akira OK) hired toyotaro to do offcial manga work with the purpose of being the sucessor to Akira (You like to leave that out that Toyo is akiras sucessor) and haven't fired him or there have been no leaks of shueishsa being disgruntled by his work at vjump. So shueisha seems very content with him.
And toei dosent seem to mind. Only reason they didn't adapt his work is because I think toei was ahead and toyotaro was just a baby mangakaka at the time. Now toei has seen how good his manga is, I doubt they will have any qualm adapting it. It only makes their lives easier.
Dragon ball in anime is going to make money regardless. It's corporate and popular, if they adapted toyotaro manga it'd do just as fine (if not a lot better).
And the manga is doing well finically for it being BEHIND the anime as well as being an monthly publication. Watch when it goes ahead of the movie and anime, it sales will go through the roof.
Dragon ball can still be a well planed show with bring back shintani for character sheets in this new REBOOTED version of super, it can still be weekly but now toyotaro is just much farther ahead. Literally all of that planning can be for a dbs reboot which follows the manga for now on. That'd be very good. It'd return to its evening timeslots and just adapt toyotaro manga from BoG to whenever the manga stops. All this would do is help the manga, anime would still bring in money. And db will be good. This sounds like an good option
This what I hope the broly movie implies. If we can get some refrences in the manga from this movie, I will be SO HAPPY!

[Lord Frieza]

[spoiler][/spoiler]
Broly Savage design has been revealed in at least somewhat HQ quality.

What do people think of up close? Know some people didn't like it initially, but how do people think after seeing the designs in (sort of) decent quality?

Have to say, like how they fixed the nose from the fully savage and full power Broly, looks much better here. The use of highlights is also nice and tasteful I feel. On another note, like how the back armour is at least somewhat unique.

I like it.

I think this form may be based on Broly’s “restricted” SS form from the first film. He still has that collar on in this form but seems to lose it after going SS proper.

[sintzu]

Honestly, it makes me really mad that they have not shown any designs or even hints of SSBE, SSJ Blue Kaioken or even Ultra Instinct for that matter.

If Ultra Instinct Goku is not going to appear in this movie i won’t be watching it. Simple as that.

Kaioken and Blue evolution probably won't show up. UI is 50/50 at this point.

If that's the case you weren't going to watch it to begin with and this is just an excuse to justify it.