Which Goku Is A more likable Character: Funimation Goku Or Original Japanese Goku:

[ABED]

You keep asking me the self preservation question and why don't they stop Gero. THat's your question to answer. I've already told you the answer. Their fundamental goals are to challenge themselves as martial artists.

And you can't just disregard Bulma's opinion because she alone could have stopped a still human Gero with her resources.

Great point, so why doesn't she? Because she's not a superhero out to save the world and neither are her friends.

Notice how when the crowd recognise him as Piccolo he at first seems more irritated than anything and then goes on to give a 2 dimensional villain speech that seems like he's just playing the role

Notice how he blows up the whole island without regard for anyone's life? Revenge for his defeat may have been his fundamental goal but that never stopped him from killing innocent people. At the 22nd TB, he's JUST starting to change, something that's only clear after the Saiyan arc, but only JUST. He'll kill innocent people if the mood strikes him. That's not conjecture, it's shown. For the sake of not losing the forest from the trees, what this means is Goku is not above sparing someone for a better fight even though he has evidence right in front of him that person will murder people.

It doens't matter what Vegeta or Piccolo's top priorities are, they are still dangerous. Too dangerous to let live, but he still does so because he likes a challenge.

I don't know what the hell you're arguing anymore. If you think Goku's priority is to save the world, that's a misunderstanding of the nature of the characters and the story. Your statement that the logic of the characters shouldn't be taken so seriously also shows a lack of understanding of the characters and story. It's you brushing aside bad writing, but it's not badly written because it's never been their aim to save the world.

Your view that Goku is so stupid doesn't hold water. When has he EVER been that dumb? And how the hell am I taking this too literally?

[PsionicWarrior]

Original Japanese Goku hands down,
Why? Because Nozawa need I say more lol

It is not the one I grew up with, the first Goku I actually heard was in french, then I rewatched everything with the english dub (don't remember which one, but I recall it's not the awful one) and actually only much later I decided to watch the original japanese, and you know what, my first impression was that I did not like it lol

But I decided to hang on and now ANY Goku that is not voiced by Nozawa is not Goku completely to me lol
The first thing that got me to like her, was her screams. Her screams are freaking insane dood mate she screams much better than everyone else, we can sense incredible alien power from Nozawa while the others just sound like a normal human being IMHO lol
Then because of the screams I watched all in Japanese and at the end of it I was in love with every piece of sentence made by her lol
One I affectionate particularly is when Goku sounds super happy because he's going to eat or is allowed to fight lol

THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE VERSION OF GOKU YOU ARE CHOOSING IS A BETTER GOKU,

Of course it means this wot lol

[ABED]

This thread isn't about the actors.

[PsionicWarrior]

This thread isn't about the actors.

You can't exclude them if you want to compare lol

[Cure Dragon 255]

I agree. Nozawa has a definitive innocent and cute charm few dubs sought to emulate. She's awesome and I love her. If we are talking about the likeability of the characters we definitely should take portrayals into account.

And keep in mind that this is coming from someone who was not exposed to Nozawa first. I love Laura Torres and Mario Castaneda not only because I grew up with them but rather how talented and fitting to the roles they are. Its pretty showing of Nozawa's talent that it took such a duo of awesome actors to bring Latin American Goku to life. They had big shoes to fill.

[ABED]

This thread isn't about the actors.

You can't exclude them if you want to compare lol

You can if it's not about the actors. It's about the characterization of the original and the dub.

And why do you end every post with "lol"?

[Cure Dragon 255]

But then Funimation is really no different if we arent allowed to pick the nuances presented by the actors of each version.

[ABED]

But then Funimation is really no different if we arent allowed to pick the nuances presented by the actors of each version.

The difference between the two versions don't fundamentally come down to the performance, it comes down to how they are written.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Ok you are right there. I will say, however that the acting and portrayal are also very important.

[PsionicWarrior]

This thread isn't about the actors.

You can't exclude them if you want to compare lol

You can if it's not about the actors. It's about the characterization of the original and the dub.

It's not so often but I completely disagree with you there, the characterization also depends on the actors, not excluding the writing but not making it exclusive either lol

[90sDBZ]

You keep asking me the self preservation question and why don't they stop Gero. THat's your question to answer. I've already told you the answer. Their fundamental goals are to challenge themselves as martial artists.

And you can't just disregard Bulma's opinion because she alone could have stopped a still human Gero with her resources.

Great point, so why doesn't she? Because she's not a superhero out to save the world and neither are her friends.

Notice how when the crowd recognise him as Piccolo he at first seems more irritated than anything and then goes on to give a 2 dimensional villain speech that seems like he's just playing the role

Notice how he blows up the whole island without regard for anyone's life? Revenge for his defeat may have been his fundamental goal but that never stopped him from killing innocent people. At the 22nd TB, he's JUST starting to change, something that's only clear after the Saiyan arc, but only JUST. He'll kill innocent people if the mood strikes him. That's not conjecture, it's shown. For the sake of not losing the forest from the trees, what this means is Goku is not above sparing someone for a better fight even though he has evidence right in front of him that person will murder people.

It doens't matter what Vegeta or Piccolo's top priorities are, they are still dangerous. Too dangerous to let live, but he still does so because he likes a challenge.

I don't know what the hell you're arguing anymore. If you think Goku's priority is to save the world, that's a misunderstanding of the nature of the characters and the story. Your statement that the logic of the characters shouldn't be taken so seriously also shows a lack of understanding of the characters and story. It's you brushing aside bad writing, but it's not badly written because it's never been their aim to save the world.

Your view that Goku is so stupid doesn't hold water. When has he EVER been that dumb? And how the hell am I taking this too literally?

I keep bringing up self preservation because it was made clear on numerous occasions that Bulma at least in the Japanese version cared about it above all else. The fact that she had the resources to stop Gero alone to save her own skin from the Androids but didn't is a case of a characters actions (or lack of) clashing with her goal of survival. You've watched the Japanese version and obviously don't have a problem with this, yet you do have a problem with the heroic dub version of Goku not finding another way to save the world for 3 years and call it a contradiction of character even though he gives a reason that's naive but still consistent for that version of the character.

And now you've lost track of what I was arguing for in the first place. I know Japanese Goku mostly cares about fighting first and foremost and never denied that. I've been trying to get the point across that Goku in the dub is a different but perfectly consistent and believable character in his own right.

Funimation dub Goku is someone who while still loving a good fight and wanting to better himself, also wants to save lives at the same time. In the dub he's consistently shown to be an idealist who's honest to a fault and wants the best of both worlds. He takes "fairness" to an extreme time and time again. He doesn't go after Gero because it "wouldn't be fair", he gives Cell a senzu bean because it "wouldn't be fair" for Gohan to beat him when he's fatigued, and refuses to fuse with Vegeta against Kid Buu because he's no longer a fused being himself and it "wouldn't be fair". At the very least in the dub he's consistently presented as being naive enough to honestly believe in these insane ideas of what's fair and what isn't. Even if he wasn't quite as stupid in the Japanese version, in the dub he's absolutely presented that way from start to finish.

[Sin]

Funimation dub Goku is someone who while still loving a good fight and wanting to better himself, also wants to save lives at the same time. In the dub he's consistently shown to be an idealist who's honest to a fault and wants the best of both worlds. He takes "fairness" to an extreme time and time again. He doesn't go after Gero because it "wouldn't be fair", he gives Cell a senzu bean because it "wouldn't be fair" for Gohan to beat him when he's fatigued, and refuses to fuse with Vegeta against Kid Buu because he's no longer a fused being himself and it "wouldn't be fair". At the very least in the dub he's consistently presented as being naive enough to honestly believe in these insane ideas of what's fair and what isn't. Even if he wasn't quite as stupid in the Japanese version, in the dub he's absolutely presented that way from start to finish.

But how can he be this consistent beacon of light superhero when he is giving beings that want to hurt his friends/destroy everything 'fair' chances that just add huge risks? Considering everyone's reactions when Goku was giving Cell a senzu, and how he reacted to those, he definitely wasn't doing it out of naivety. He was doing it to push Gohan like a parent throwing their child into a pool to sink or swim regardless of the outcome, and I just don't see how that is consistent with being protector of the innocent.

[Kokonoe]

Now you're making a pretty big assumption about Goku. What makes you think he'd be fine with Frieza going on to kill countless innocents and essentially turning a blind eye to it as long as it didn't directly affect him? Even in the Japanese version that's a big stretch. I know Goku doesn't actively patrol the universe for evil but if he already knows about an evil as bad as Frieza then he's not going to be okay with him going on a killing spree even if it is light years away. And there's always the possibility that Frieza could simply destroy the earth from outer space without having to fight Goku again.

It's not a big stretch at all, him stopping an evil tyrant-dictator is just the bi-product of him wanting a good fight.

Uhh... what? Goku doesn't go around patrolling like Superman that's true, but when he knows about something he will absolutely get involved. He does have morals and has shown that time and time again, in fact his morals are so high that he tried to spare someone who killed his best friend.

[Sin]

Now you're making a pretty big assumption about Goku. What makes you think he'd be fine with Frieza going on to kill countless innocents and essentially turning a blind eye to it as long as it didn't directly affect him? Even in the Japanese version that's a big stretch. I know Goku doesn't actively patrol the universe for evil but if he already knows about an evil as bad as Frieza then he's not going to be okay with him going on a killing spree even if it is light years away. And there's always the possibility that Frieza could simply destroy the earth from outer space without having to fight Goku again.

It's not a big stretch at all, him stopping an evil tyrant-dictator is just the bi-product of him wanting a good fight.

Uhh... what? Goku doesn't go around patrolling like Superman that's true, but when he knows about something he will absolutely get involved. He does have morals and has shown that time and time again, in fact his morals are so high that he tried to spare someone who killed his best friend.

Like when? To my knowledge every threat we see him take on has either crossed his path or he has sought out because he has heard they're strong and wants to see for himself. I'm happy to accept your point if you can give examples.

[90sDBZ]

Funimation dub Goku is someone who while still loving a good fight and wanting to better himself, also wants to save lives at the same time. In the dub he's consistently shown to be an idealist who's honest to a fault and wants the best of both worlds. He takes "fairness" to an extreme time and time again. He doesn't go after Gero because it "wouldn't be fair", he gives Cell a senzu bean because it "wouldn't be fair" for Gohan to beat him when he's fatigued, and refuses to fuse with Vegeta against Kid Buu because he's no longer a fused being himself and it "wouldn't be fair". At the very least in the dub he's consistently presented as being naive enough to honestly believe in these insane ideas of what's fair and what isn't. Even if he wasn't quite as stupid in the Japanese version, in the dub he's absolutely presented that way from start to finish.

But how can he be this consistent beacon of light superhero when he is giving beings that want to hurt his friends/destroy everything 'fair' chances that just add huge risks? Considering everyone's reactions when Goku was giving Cell a senzu, and how he reacted to those, he definitely wasn't doing it out of naivety. He was doing it to push Gohan like a parent throwing their child into a pool to sink or swim regardless of the outcome, and I just don't see how that is consistent with being protector of the innocent.

I'll admit that his decisions are ultimately still bad decisions, but the key difference in the dub is the intent behind them. In dub Goku's mind he's being fair and just and his naivety is his major fault rather than a battle obsession. Perhaps dub Goku doesn't always succeed at being that beacon of hope, but he certainly aspires to be througout the series.

Him giving Cell a senzu bean was "fair" in his mind, and was also a way of showing Gohan he had total confidence in him. In the dub he later realises his mistake and apologises to everyone. He realised how dumb he'd acted once his bubble had been burst. It's obvious that Gohan not liking fighting hadn't even occured to him until Piccolo mentioned it, and once it does you see the genuine shock and remorse in his face.

[PsionicWarrior]

Him giving Cell a senzu bean was "fair" in his mind, and was also a way of showing Gohan he had total confidence in him.

He was definitely super confident with Gohan but I also think it's pure Saiyajin pride as in "better die than win on an advantage" while dying is NOT an alternative anyway lol

[ABED]

It's bull that it wouldn't be fair to go after Dr. Gero. He was part of the Red Ribbon Army. That was a rationalization on Goku's part and intentionally so. He wanted to fight the cyborgs. That's his entire rationale. Even in the dub it was a throwaway line AND he doesn't need to kill the guy to stop him.

You've watched the Japanese version and obviously don't have a problem with this, yet you do have a problem with the heroic dub version of Goku not finding another way to save the world for 3 years and call it a contradiction of character even though he gives a reason that's naive but still consistent for that version of the character.

For one, Goku is the main character in a show about martial artists. If Bulma had TRIED to stop them preemptively, Vegeta, Goku, Piccolo or someone would've stopped her. She knows that and it's why she doesn't put up a fight. How is Goku's reason in the dub consistent with his character?

It's not so often but I completely disagree with you there, the characterization also depends on the actors, not excluding the writing but not making it exclusive either lol

That's more the director who interprets the writing. It's not the actor.

[90sDBZ]

It's bull that it wouldn't be fair to go after Dr. Gero. He was part of the Red Ribbon Army. That was a rationalization on Goku's part and intentionally so. He wanted to fight the cyborgs. That's his entire rationale. Even in the dub it was a throwaway line AND he doesn't need to kill the guy to stop him.

You've watched the Japanese version and obviously don't have a problem with this, yet you do have a problem with the heroic dub version of Goku not finding another way to save the world for 3 years and call it a contradiction of character even though he gives a reason that's naive but still consistent for that version of the character.

For one, Goku is the main character in a show about martial artists. If Bulma had TRIED to stop them preemptively, Vegeta, Goku, Piccolo or someone would've stopped her. She knows that and it's why she doesn't put up a fight. How is Goku's reason in the dub consistent with his character?

It's not so often but I completely disagree with you there, the characterization also depends on the actors, not excluding the writing but not making it exclusive either lol

That's more the director who interprets the writing. It's not the actor.

I agree it is bull that going after Gero wouldn't be fair. It's also bull that letting Vegeta go is "the right thing to do", and it's bull that fusing to beat Kid Buu "wouldn't be fair". But Goku in the dub says all of this with absolute sincerity. You can't watch the dub version of Goku telling Krillin to let Vegeta go and say that it doesn't come across as 100% sincere. If he was 100% sincere in believing that Vegeta should live for the sake of morals, then he's dumb enough to think that going after Gero or even capturing him "isn't fair". They are all bad decisions granted, but in the dub they're all made with misplaced good intentions.

And Bulma could have gone behind their backs easily as they were all busy training 24/7.

[ABED]

It has nothing to do with sincerity or lack thereof. In the dub Goku tells Kuririn to show mercy to Vegeta, yet he thinks nothing of killing nameless RRA goons. It's innevitable contradictions like that which make FUNi Goku far less interesting. Instead of being a deliberate choice by the author to say something about the character, the contradiction is the result of the dub writers not understanding the character and trying to impose their morality on the story. The result is a much less interesting and unique character.

[90sDBZ]

It has nothing to do with sincerity or lack thereof. In the dub Goku tells Kuririn to show mercy to Vegeta, yet he thinks nothing of killing nameless RRA goons. It's innevitable contradictions like that which make FUNi Goku far less interesting. Instead of being a deliberate choice by the author to say something about the character, the contradiction is the result of the dub writers not understanding the character and trying to impose their morality on the story.

That's not a contradiction at all. Whichever version you watch, it's obvious that Goku matures during his training with Kami. He killed Tambourine in cold blood for killing Krillin then in Z saves Frieza's life after committing that exact same crime.