Which Goku Is A more likable Character: Funimation Goku Or Original Japanese Goku:

[ABED]

It has nothing to do with sincerity or lack thereof. In the dub Goku tells Kuririn to show mercy to Vegeta, yet he thinks nothing of killing nameless RRA goons. It's innevitable contradictions like that which make FUNi Goku far less interesting. Instead of being a deliberate choice by the author to say something about the character, the contradiction is the result of the dub writers not understanding the character and trying to impose their morality on the story.

That's not a contradiction at all. Whichever version you watch, it's obvious that Goku matures during his training with Kami. He killed Tambourine in cold blood for killing Krillin then in Z saves Frieza's life after committing that exact same crime.

He doesn't actually train with Kami. He trained with Mr. Popo, but I'm splitting hairs, and the whole idea that he matured into a more merciful character as a result is an inference made by fans. It's not textual or subtextual. You all take two moments and build this entire story around it that Goku has been fundamentally changed during that period, but he's still the same guy. He has shown mercy before he trained with Mr. Popo. Remember when he tried to let Black go?

Goku killed Tambourine in the heat of the moment. Freeza was a long protracted fight and if he could've killed him easily he would've but he calms down the more in control of the battle he is to the point that he tries to leave the first time because he's bored.

[PsionicWarrior]

That's more the director who interprets the writing. It's not the actor.

If I want to compare the writing maybe I just read it, for anime the actor influences my opinion on a character, it's part of the package lol

[90sDBZ]

It has nothing to do with sincerity or lack thereof. In the dub Goku tells Kuririn to show mercy to Vegeta, yet he thinks nothing of killing nameless RRA goons. It's innevitable contradictions like that which make FUNi Goku far less interesting. Instead of being a deliberate choice by the author to say something about the character, the contradiction is the result of the dub writers not understanding the character and trying to impose their morality on the story.

That's not a contradiction at all. Whichever version you watch, it's obvious that Goku matures during his training with Kami. He killed Tambourine in cold blood for killing Krillin then in Z saves Frieza's life after committing that exact same crime.

He doesn't actually train with Kami. He trained with Mr. Popo and the whole idea that he matured into a more merciful character as a result is an inference made by fans. It's not textual or subtextual.

Goku killed Tambourine in the heat of the moment. Freeza was a long protracted fight and if he could've killed him easily he would've but he calms down the more in control of the battle he is to the point that he tries to leave the first time because he's bored.

I know he trained with Popo. That's inconsequential to this debate. And I wasn't implying that either Kami or Popo had anything to do with his maturity. He just happened to mature by himself during that period.

And he didn't just kill Tambourine in the heat of the moment. He was after him for several hours and was out for blood. Not only that but Tambourine tried to escape in terror but Goku used his power pole to pursue him and vaporise him. That isn't killing in temper, that's coldblooded murder. What's more he was even smiling with his arms crossed right after surviving Tambourine's mouth blast.

[ABED]

That's not a contradiction at all. Whichever version you watch, it's obvious that Goku matures during his training with Kami. He killed Tambourine in cold blood for killing Krillin then in Z saves Frieza's life after committing that exact same crime.

He doesn't actually train with Kami. He trained with Mr. Popo and the whole idea that he matured into a more merciful character as a result is an inference made by fans. It's not textual or subtextual.

Goku killed Tambourine in the heat of the moment. Freeza was a long protracted fight and if he could've killed him easily he would've but he calms down the more in control of the battle he is to the point that he tries to leave the first time because he's bored.

I know he trained with Popo. That's inconsequential to this debate. And I wasn't implying that either Kami or Popo had anything to do with his maturity. He just happened to mature by himself during that period.

And he didn't just kill Tambourine in the heat of the moment. He was after him for several hours and was out for blood. Not only that but Tambourine tried to escape in terror but Goku used his power pole to pursue him and vaporise him. That isn't killing in temper, that's coldblooded murder.

First, it's not murder, it's justified. Second, it is the heat of the moment because they are fighting and Goku is super pissed. It's absolutely heat of the moment. And Goku doesn't mature beyond physically in those three years. You all are disregarding previous evidence that contradicts your conclusion. Goku has shown a willingness to show mercy BEFORE those three years.

And in the interest of not losing the forest from the trees, he didn't change. He's consistent in his character over the years. The dub makes him look otherwise.

[90sDBZ]

He doesn't actually train with Kami. He trained with Mr. Popo and the whole idea that he matured into a more merciful character as a result is an inference made by fans. It's not textual or subtextual.

Goku killed Tambourine in the heat of the moment. Freeza was a long protracted fight and if he could've killed him easily he would've but he calms down the more in control of the battle he is to the point that he tries to leave the first time because he's bored.

I know he trained with Popo. That's inconsequential to this debate. And I wasn't implying that either Kami or Popo had anything to do with his maturity. He just happened to mature by himself during that period.

And he didn't just kill Tambourine in the heat of the moment. He was after him for several hours and was out for blood. Not only that but Tambourine tried to escape in terror but Goku used his power pole to pursue him and vaporise him. That isn't killing in temper, that's coldblooded murder.

First, it's not murder, it's justified. Second, it is the heat of the moment because they are fighting and Goku is super pissed.

It might be justified but you can't deny that he acted very differently with Frieza who he had many, many opportunities to do the same to. And Goku being pissed doesn't matter. He was pissed with Frieza too but handled his anger differently.

[ABED]

I know he trained with Popo. That's inconsequential to this debate. And I wasn't implying that either Kami or Popo had anything to do with his maturity. He just happened to mature by himself during that period.

And he didn't just kill Tambourine in the heat of the moment. He was after him for several hours and was out for blood. Not only that but Tambourine tried to escape in terror but Goku used his power pole to pursue him and vaporise him. That isn't killing in temper, that's coldblooded murder.

First, it's not murder, it's justified. Second, it is the heat of the moment because they are fighting and Goku is super pissed.

It might be justified but you can't deny that he acted very differently with Frieza who he had many, many opportunities to do the same to. And Goku being pissed doesn't matter. He was pissed with Frieza too but handled his anger differently.

Him being pissed does matter. It's when he's calm and fully in control that he tries to show mercy to his enemy. He doesn't show it when he's super upset like right after turning Super Saiyan or after Kuririn's killed by Tambourine. He was no longer pissed by the end of his fight with Freeza. He's calm and in full control of his emotions, so much so that he can turn SSJ off and on at will. He's not mad, he's bored.

[90sDBZ]

Him being pissed does matter. It's when he's calm and fully in control that he tries to show mercy to his enemy. He doesn't show it when he's super upset like right after turning Super Saiyan or after Kuririn's killed by Tambourine. He was no longer pissed by the end of his fight with Freeza. He's calm and in full control of his emotions, so much so that he can turn SSJ off and on at will. He's not mad, he's bored.

He wasn't even that angry anymore by the time he killed Tambourine. Just look at this video and look how relaxed he looks at 2:12 with his arms crossed and a carefree smile on his face.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8dQ4ot1CwE

And if you're implying he killed Tambourine in a blind rage without thinking then he could have easily done that to Frieza at any point between him going Super Saiyan and Frieza reaching 100% where he would have been especially pissed. And after sparing Frieza the first time Frieza tries to slice his head off with a disc from behind pissing him off all over again. Not even then does Goku try to go in for the kill.

Another comparison is the Red Ribbon Soldiers and the Ginyu Force. He kills the RRA soldiers without even being angry like it's no big deal but in Z actually tells Vegeta off for killing the Ginyu Force. And yes that part is also in the Japanese version.

[ABED]

Him being pissed does matter. It's when he's calm and fully in control that he tries to show mercy to his enemy. He doesn't show it when he's super upset like right after turning Super Saiyan or after Kuririn's killed by Tambourine. He was no longer pissed by the end of his fight with Freeza. He's calm and in full control of his emotions, so much so that he can turn SSJ off and on at will. He's not mad, he's bored.

He wasn't even that angry anymore by the time he killed Tambourine. Just look at this video and look how relaxed he looks at 2:12 with his arms crossed and a carefree smile on his face.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8dQ4ot1CwE

And if you're implying he killed Tambourine in a blind rage without thinking then he could have easily done that to Frieza at any point between him going Super Saiyan and Frieza reaching 100% where he would have been especially pissed. And after sparing Frieza the first time Frieza tries to slice his head off with a disc from behind pissing him off all over again. Not even then does Goku try to go in for the kill.

Another comparison is the Red Ribbon Soldiers and the Ginyu Force. He kills the RRA soldiers without even being angry like it's no big deal but in Z actually tells Vegeta off for killing the Ginyu Force. And yes that part is also in the Japanese version.

He tries to let Black live. You're cherry picking data that supports your point and looking past moments that don't support it. This feels like trying to roll a rock uphill.

Given all this back and forth, who do you think is the more interesting or likable character, Goku or FUNi Goku?

[90sDBZ]

He tries to let Black live. You're cherry picking data that supports your point and looking past moments that don't support it. This feels like trying to roll a rock uphill.

Given all this back and forth, who do you think is the more interesting or likable character, Goku or FUNi Goku?

I think you're the one who's cherry picking as Black is one man out of the countless others he bumps off that very same day.

I find both versions pretty interesting. Japanese Goku because of his unapologetic obsession with battle and anti-hero traits, and dub Goku because he just feels like a classic hero I can root for in a story of good and evil. Basically a classic white knight character. One of the best moments that captures this is his arrival on the battlefield against Nappa and Vegeta in the Saban dub. I know people call him a Superman clone, but I see him as a more down to earth and likeable version of Superman.

I've watched the dub countless times and have watched all of OG DB/Z/GT in Japanese at least once in their entirety. I don't think one version of Goku is necessarily better than the other, but the heroic version from the dub resonates with me more personally. I do appreciate original Japanese Goku and I am a fan of anti-hero's in general, but I think his constant battle obsession does get overdone at times, particularly in GT where he constantly says "I'm getting excited for the first time in a while!".

[ABED]

He tries to let Black live. You're cherry picking data that supports your point and looking past moments that don't support it. This feels like trying to roll a rock uphill.

Given all this back and forth, who do you think is the more interesting or likable character, Goku or FUNi Goku?

I think you're the one who's cherry picking as Black is one man out of the countless others he bumps off that very same day.

I find both versions pretty interesting. Japanese Goku because of his unapologetic obsession with battle and anti-hero traits, and dub Goku because he just feels like a classic hero I can root for in a story of good and evil. Basically a classic white knight character. One of the best moments that captures this is his arrival on the battlefield against Nappa and Vegeta in the Saban dub. I know people call him a Superman clone, but I see him as a more down to earth and likeable version of Superman.

I've watched the dub countless times and have watched all of OG DB/Z/GT in Japanese at least once in their entirety. I don't think one version of Goku is necessarily better than the other, but the heroic version from the dub resonates with me more personally. I do appreciate original Japanese Goku and I am a fan of anti-hero's in general, but I think his constant battle obsession does get overdone at times, particularly in GT where he constantly says "I'm getting excited for the first time in a while!".

But he's not just any guy, he's the leader at that point and the final member Goku has to deal with. It also pokes a GIANT whole in the assertion that Goku changes after training for the TB. We witness him show Black mercy.

[Waluigiman]

I like both?

However, Japanese Goku needs to be less flanderized.

[90sDBZ]

He tries to let Black live. You're cherry picking data that supports your point and looking past moments that don't support it. This feels like trying to roll a rock uphill.

Given all this back and forth, who do you think is the more interesting or likable character, Goku or FUNi Goku?

I think you're the one who's cherry picking as Black is one man out of the countless others he bumps off that very same day.

I find both versions pretty interesting. Japanese Goku because of his unapologetic obsession with battle and anti-hero traits, and dub Goku because he just feels like a classic hero I can root for in a story of good and evil. Basically a classic white knight character. One of the best moments that captures this is his arrival on the battlefield against Nappa and Vegeta in the Saban dub. I know people call him a Superman clone, but I see him as a more down to earth and likeable version of Superman.

I've watched the dub countless times and have watched all of OG DB/Z/GT in Japanese at least once in their entirety. I don't think one version of Goku is necessarily better than the other, but the heroic version from the dub resonates with me more personally. I do appreciate original Japanese Goku and I am a fan of anti-hero's in general, but I think his constant battle obsession does get overdone at times, particularly in GT where he constantly says "I'm getting excited for the first time in a while!".

But he's not just any guy, he's the leader at that point and the final member Goku has to deal with. It also pokes a GIANT whole in the assertion that Goku changes after training for the TB. We witness him show Black mercy.

Him being the leader doesn't mean squat. Showing mercy to one man doesn't undo the killing of dozens or hundreds or whatever it was.

[ABED]

The point is that he showed mercy, ergo, he didn't change like you claim he did.

[90sDBZ]

The point is that he showed mercy, ergo, he didn't change like you claim he did.

Again showing mercy once on the very same day he bumped off countless soldiers isn't a good example. The point is if you compare his killing/mercy ratio in DB to his killing/mercy ratio in Z you get drastically different numbers. In DB we literally can't count how many he kills through soldiers alone. He also kills Tambourine and Drum in cold blood, the latter who hadn't even done anything much to him. In Z he kills Yakon and Kid Buu and if you really want to stretch it you could put Raditz in there too.

After he grows up he at least tries to spare every major villain from Piccolo to Frieza. And in the cases of Raditz, Nappa, Recoome, Burter, Jeice, Captain Ginyu, and Frieza he doesn't even plan on fighting them again. What's more he actually shows disgust to Vegeta for killing Ginyu Force members on 2 occasions, first when he finishes Recoome and Burter, and again when he wastes Jeice.

[ABED]

The point is that he showed mercy, ergo, he didn't change like you claim he did.

Again showing mercy once on the very same day he bumped off countless soldiers isn't a good example. The point is if you compare his killing/mercy ratio in DB to his killing/mercy ratio in Z you get drastically different numbers. In DB we literally can't count how many he kills through soldiers alone. He also kills Tambourine and Drum in cold blood, the latter who hadn't even done anything much to him. In Z he kills Yakon and Kid Buu and if you really want to stretch it you could put Raditz in there too.

After he grows up he at least tries to spare every major villain from Piccolo to Frieza. And in the cases of Raditz, Nappa, Recoome, Burter, Jeice, Captain Ginyu, and Frieza he doesn't even plan on fighting them again. What's more he actually shows disgust to Vegeta for killing Ginyu Force members on 2 occasions, first when he finishes Recoome and Burter, and again when he wastes Jeice.

It's not a fair comparison. In DB, he fought hordes of lackies, but that's the last time he does fight an army. After that he fights enemies in far smaller numbers and it's mostly one on one.

He kills Yakon without much hesitation, and he spared Black. He's the same character from beginning to end.

I don't see your point about Drum. Drum was going to kill Tenshinhan, so he protected his friend. Drum had it coming. It wasn't "in cold blood."

Also, why wouldn't Toriyama explicitly make a big deal of this supposed change? He doesn't bring it up at all. That and the fact that he doesn't change leads me to think it's just an inference from fans based that sounds deep, but actually doesn't hold water. That is the sort of change that any writer would make a big deal out of in order to show growth in their character. Now that I think of it, this could be its own thread, so I'll make one because it's starting to feel tangential.

[90sDBZ]

It's not a fair comparison. In DB, he fought hordes of lackies, but that's the last time he does fight an army. After that he fights enemies in far smaller numbers and it's mostly one on one.

He kills Yakon without much hesitation, and he spared Black. He's the same character from beginning to end.

I don't see your point about Drum. Drum was going to kill Tenshinhan, so he protected his friend. Drum had it coming. It wasn't "in cold blood."

Also, why wouldn't Toriyama explicitly make a big deal of this supposed change? He doesn't bring it up at all. That and the fact that he doesn't change leads me to think it's just an inference from fans based that sounds deep, but actually doesn't hold water. That is the sort of change that any writer would make a big deal out of in order to show growth in their character.

But he still didn't need to kill those lackies, just knock them out. And you're forgetting the time he kills those 2 soldiers who harassed Bulma, they're trying to fly away in their helicopter and he goes after them and sends them crashing to the ground in a fatal wreck. That's the kind of thing he'd tell Vegeta off for in Z.

He kills Yakon due to it being the only option at the time. And again Black is just one man out of hundreds.

He didn't kill Drum to save Tien, he killed him with the next kick by kicking his eyes out of his skull after he'd had time to stand there and size Goku up before attacking him instead. Tien was well out of danger by that point. Saying Drum had it coming doesn't hold any weight in this argument. Piccolo, Raditz, Nappa, Vegeta, Recoome, Burter, Jeice, and Frieza all had it coming. He didn't need to be so brutal with Drum who was essentially just another henchman like the Ginyu Force who he tells Vegeta off for killing.

Toriyama doesn't need to spell it out because it's already incredibly obvious from Goku's changed actions. Not everything needs to be 100% on the nose. At this point you're just grasping at straws for a reason to say dub Goku is inconsistent.

[ABED]

He kills Yakon due to it being the only option at the time. And again Black is just one man out of hundreds.

It doesn't matter if it's just one man. Point is that he shows mercy. Goku was so overwhelmingly stronger than Yakon I don't believe he needed to kill him to stop him. He killed him because it was expedient. And I haven't forgotten anything.

Toriyama doesn't need to spell it out because it's already incredibly obvious from Goku's changed actions. Not everything needs to be 100% on the nose. At this point you're just grasping at straws for a reason to say dub Goku is inconsistent.

And yet he does it for EVERY OTHER CHARACTER except his main character? If it's true, that's a HUGE change. This isn't about being on the nose, it's about giving his growth focus. As it is, it's not made a big deal about. There's no deal made about it. It's not incredibly obvious.

Tenshinhan was NOT out of danger. Piccolo and Drum are right there. He doesn't stop being in danger just because Goku got him off his back for a second. Also, Goku needs to keep Drum out of the way while he fights Piccolo Daimao. He can't afford the distraction. In the end, Piccolo ends up being the one to use Tenshinhan as distraction. Killing Drum was the best option. Drum is a demon. He's pure unrepentant evil. And just because Goku has cause to kill someone doesn't mean he will, just that he has cause to, and in this case he did. In all the cases you mentioned, yes, they had it coming, but Goku either wanted to fight them later or they were no longer a threat. In Raditz' case, he asked for mercy and Goku is naïve. Doesn't change that killing them would've been justified.

I'm not grasping at straws. You just don't want to admit that dub Goku's methods are inconsistent with his goals. If he's out to save the world, he picks the worst possible methods and his code of honor is at odds with that supposed goal. Of course the goal is nonsense. It's created by dub writers who don't understand the story of the characters.

[Brodes]

It has nothing to do with sincerity or lack thereof. In the dub Goku tells Kuririn to show mercy to Vegeta, yet he thinks nothing of killing nameless RRA goons. It's innevitable contradictions like that which make FUNi Goku far less interesting. Instead of being a deliberate choice by the author to say something about the character, the contradiction is the result of the dub writers not understanding the character and trying to impose their morality on the story.

That's not a contradiction at all. Whichever version you watch, it's obvious that Goku matures during his training with Kami. He killed Tambourine in cold blood for killing Krillin then in Z saves Frieza's life after committing that exact same crime.

He doesn't actually train with Kami. He trained with Mr. Popo, but I'm splitting hairs...

Yes he does train with Kami. Check out volume 14 of the manga.if you need proof. It'd mentioned both before and after the time skip for the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai.

[ABED]

That's not a contradiction at all. Whichever version you watch, it's obvious that Goku matures during his training with Kami. He killed Tambourine in cold blood for killing Krillin then in Z saves Frieza's life after committing that exact same crime.

He doesn't actually train with Kami. He trained with Mr. Popo, but I'm splitting hairs...

Yes he does train with Kami. Check out volume 14 of the manga.if you need proof. It'd mentioned both before and after the time skip for the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai.

I believe it's specifically stated that the reason Kami doesn't have much faith in Goku's ability to win is because he didn't oversee much of his training.

[ekrolo2]

Funimation Goku is more likable as he's presented as more of a generic hero type. Japanese Goku is an increasingly selfish prick through the original run which makes him vastly more interesting as a character, even if it makes me want to smack him in the face more often than not.