"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[prince212]

I meant that the person winning the ToP would most likely be something Toriyama decides.

Of course Toriyama will decide if keep 17 as the winner or somebody else ( goku is the main option ) , and after the last comment he made about the manga ..all is possible:

Now then, the animated version on TV will be ending for the time being, but the very popular Dragon Ball Super comic drawn by Toyotarō (on sale now up through volume 5!) will keep on going as-is. I think there will also be story developments different from the TV show and the movie, so please look forward to that as well. I will be, too!
— Akira Toriyama

[Jesus-is Lord]

I meant that the person winning the ToP would most likely be something Toriyama decides.

Of course Toriyama will decide if keep 17 as the winner or somebody else ( goku is the main option ) , and after the last comment he made about the manga ..all is possible:

Now then, the animated version on TV will be ending for the time being, but the very popular Dragon Ball Super comic drawn by Toyotarō (on sale now up through volume 5!) will keep on going as-is. I think there will also be story developments different from the TV show and the movie, so please look forward to that as well. I will be, too!
— Akira Toriyama

I really wonder what shueisha and toriyama will ever do with the manga of super? And what does Akira mean that toyotaro is his sucessor? Is toyotaro already his sucessor in terms of making offcial manga content or Is There More To It?

[prince212]

I really wonder what shueisha and toriyama will ever do with the manga of super? And what does Akira mean that toyotaro is his sucessor? Is toyotaro already his sucessor in terms of making offcial manga content or Is There More To It?

In terms of drawing manga , yes he’s already the successor for now .. in terms of story or writing , that’s never gonna be on somebody’s own back , that’s what I think.

[shadowmaria]

Despite the fact that it's the same time every single month, when does the chapter release (August 21st officially), and also when can we start expecting leaks from (17th onwards)?

inb4 the questions are asked

[Jesus-is Lord]

I really wonder what shueisha and toriyama will ever do with the manga of super? And what does Akira mean that toyotaro is his sucessor? Is toyotaro already his sucessor in terms of making offcial manga content or Is There More To It?

In terms of drawing manga , yes he’s already the successor for now .. in terms of story or writing , that’s never gonna be on somebody’s own back , that’s what I think.

But it is on somebody back! Toriyama is the one who creates these arc with a supposed minimal effort help from toei, and sheueisha. When Akira steps away, the heck is going to happen to dragon ball? And what the heck is the future for toyotaro and his manga??? It musnt stay like this forever! I just want to know what the future of this frnachise is? There's no way this system model will go on indefitnely, it can't! Having a manga be behind the anime that does it's own thing and is the back burner of the franchise but still be proclaimed as "Offcial"? That's a stupid model system that only this wretched frnachise does and it must come to an end! No other really successful animes and mangas does this! It's stupid and a regressive system model which, I believe, have heavily contributed to the stereotypes of modern dragon ball!!! Look how degraded our manga vs anime discussions have become, I sometimes struggle to hold conversations with people before someone starts name calling and or blocking each other! As much as we try to not say "us vs then" or "manga faction vs anime faction" - as much as we try not to condone such tribalism - ITS ALREADY TAKING ROOT. We have th... Losing my cool. Sorry

I just hope that sooner or later, manga and anime become as one as like it used to be - like how it is for most popular animes and manga as well. That's all.

[Cetra]

Toriyama is the one who creates these arc with a supposed minimal effort help from toei, and sheueisha.

This "minimal effort" as you call it is the most story writing that one could possibly do minus the basic ideas. If you think writing a draft is the greatest effort one could invest then that's like saying somebody that gives another person a 10 pages summary and tells him to write a book of 1000 pages about it has done more work and creative input than the guy who actually wrote the book.

[Jesus-is Lord]

Toriyama is the one who creates these arc with a supposed minimal effort help from toei, and sheueisha.

This "minimal effort" as you call it is the most story writing that one could possibly do. If you think writing a draft is the greatest effort one could invest then that's like saying somebody that gives another person a 10 pages summary and tells him to write a book of 1000 pages about it has done more work and creative input than the guy who actually wrote the book.

False equivalence, lad. Toriyama is the one who creates the actual infrasctrue, he's the one who created the basic blue prints for how the building ought to be. And to me, that speaks much more volumes then simple adding the luxuries to make it be hospitibale and ready for sale. Toriyama created the multiverse, he's the one who thought of goku black and zamsu, he created Jiren and the mere ORGINAL concept of UI, toriyama created Hit. These backbones character are far more Orginal then anything toei or even toyotaro could come up. Look at GT, as hams as toei tried to go on GT - many plot points in GT were call backs to Z and db:
Goku a kid
Pan and trunk space adventure
The first real arc villian having many of the same qualities of Frieza
The 2nd main arc villian being some type of robot
The final arc villian can absorb and regenerate like buu, and is killed via spirit bomb.

For a lot of GT, you get remixes of Z.
Supers filler for toei - must I even say how unoriginal they are? They don't even try anymore, when it comes to their filler.

And for toyotaro? Just look at his AF manga and all of his dragon ball manga (and anime) refrences he swarms through-out his dbs manga.

Toriyama is always new and Orginal - his writing may not be the best but his writing usually is very impactful and always build off each other, and toriyama usually dosent remix old tropes either. He tries to stay fresh, even at his older age.

[TKA]

For a lot of GT, you get remixes of Z.

Yeah, this is actually really annoying.

The Omega Shenron/One-Star Dragon fight is just a truncated version of the Super Buu fight, with the end of the Pure Buu fight tacked on. Likewise, the last Zamasu fight in the anime is just a copied version of the Omega Shenron/One-Star Dragon fight. Jiren vs Goku in the anime is just Goku vs Frieza on Namek. They all have the same beats. Stop referencing the past and just do something new. Nostalgia sucks when there isn't more to it than that.

[Jesus-is Lord]

For a lot of GT, you get remixes of Z.

Yeah, this is actually really annoying.

The Omega Shenron/One-Star Dragon fight is just a truncated version of the Super Buu fight, with the end of the Pure Buu fight tacked on. Likewise, the last Zamasu fight in the anime is just a copied version of the Omega Shenron/One-Star Dragon fight. Jiren vs Goku in the anime is just Goku vs Frieza on Namek. They all have the same beats. Stop referencing the past and just do something new. Nostalgia sucks when there isn't more to it than that.

Don't get it twisted, I still like GT very much (mostly because it's high are like REALLY high. But the overall consistency of the show was really eh - it's about as good as supers anime, the only differnce is as I said, GTs Highs were truly some of the best we've ever seen in db history, supers anime had none of this. Their "highs" were always at best good. Usually their highs would be like average for dragon ball, and their lows were so truly disgraceful. The only time I feel super brought something that was the greatest we've seen from dragon ball was the animation in episode 130 and 131. I think that animation was some of the best we have ever seen in history, but the writing, lack of gore and really lack of tension since you knew universe 7 was going to win with really no twist or turns... The re used animation and lack of explaination for a lot of things in that episode made it kinda fall flat, and 131 was the worst ending to an db series in history so it makes it fall flat, even if it had the greatest animation we've ever seen.

[Cetra]

False equivalence, lad. Toriyama is the one who creates the actual infrasctrue, he's the one who created the basic blue prints for how the building ought to be.

Apart from it being ridiculous how you call me lad it is no false equivalence. Basic concept/drafts/core ideas are from the mere percentage the least work here. It is really quite simple. What is within Toei's script is simply more than what Toriyama-san writes. That is just facts. You also make a big mistake by thinking the only effort comes from bringing in obvious new material. Writing scripts is a lot harder and a lot more work than that. I can see that you are not a writer. You made a simple statement about Toei and Shueisha investing minimal effort. And that was wrong. And that's it. That you do not even realize how much they have to do and change (something that even Toriyama-san stated - the change when they need to change things) then you are showing a giant company an extreme amount of disrespect. And for what? A basic, oh so common "Toriyama is god" comment. And if you'd have understoood my previous post you would also have understood the part where the "book" of 1000 pages also is based on a summary of the core ideas, so it was nothing different at all. Even stuff that is not core idea(s) has to be invented before it is implemented and that requires thought processes, time, effort, etc. And depending on how much, this is not a joke.

[Jesus-is Lord]

False equivalence, lad. Toriyama is the one who creates the actual infrasctrue, he's the one who created the basic blue prints for how the building ought to be.

Apart from it being ridiculous how you call me lad it is no false equivalence. Basic concept/drafts/core ideas are from the mere percentage the least work here. It is really quite simple. What is within Toei's script is simply more than what Toriyama-san writes. That is just facts. You also make a big mistake by thinking the only effort comes from bringing in obvious new material. Writing scripts is a lot harder and a lot more work than that. I can see that you are not a writer. You made a simple statement about Toei and Shueisha investing minimal effort. And that was wrong. And that's it. That you do not even realize how much they have to do and change (something that even Toriyama-san stated - the change when they need to change things) then you are showing a giant company an extreme amount of disrespect. And for what? A basic, oh so common "Toriyama is god" comment.

You claim to be a computer scientist so I assume you have me quite beat in age, maybe I shouldn't have called you that, sorry... And sorry if you are a woman.
Create ing the core I think is the most difficult part then adding the accessories as my example with either filler or other works created by toei and toyotaro. And yes, I do believe shueisha and toei have minimal influence on toriyama story boarding. VERY LITTLE I'd say. Prove me otherwise. The best they do is help him create the story board he has in place like toyotaro creating gods of destruction or toei creating the participants for top. But that's it I'd think

[prince212]

I really wonder what shueisha and toriyama will ever do with the manga of super? And what does Akira mean that toyotaro is his sucessor? Is toyotaro already his sucessor in terms of making offcial manga content or Is There More To It?

In terms of drawing manga , yes he’s already the successor for now .. in terms of story or writing , that’s never gonna be on somebody’s own back , that’s what I think.

But it is on somebody back! Toriyama is the one who creates these arc with a supposed minimal effort help from toei, and sheueisha. When Akira steps away, the heck is going to happen to dragon ball? And what the heck is the future for toyotaro and his manga??? It musnt stay like this forever! I just want to know what the future of this frnachise is? There's no way this system model will go on indefitnely, it can't! Having a manga be behind the anime that does it's own thing and is the back burner of the franchise but still be proclaimed as "Offcial"? That's a stupid model system that only this wretched frnachise does and it must come to an end! No other really successful animes and mangas does this! It's stupid and a regressive system model which, I believe, have heavily contributed to the stereotypes of modern dragon ball!!! Look how degraded our manga vs anime discussions have become, I sometimes struggle to hold conversations with people before someone starts name calling and or blocking each other! As much as we try to not say "us vs then" or "manga faction vs anime faction" - as much as we try not to condone such tribalism - ITS ALREADY TAKING ROOT. We have th... Losing my cool. Sorry

I just hope that sooner or later, manga and anime become as one as like it used to be - like how it is for most popular animes and manga as well. That's all.

Yes now it’s on Toriyama s back ( and his editor and helpers) , he creates and approves ideas. I meant “after” Toriyama no one as an individual name is gonna take the position of the main artist-creator . If so is gonna be a Corporation ( dragon ball room or something like that ) .
Regarding the model system of anime and manga becoming one like the traditional model .. yes I’d like that , but I don’t care too much , I want the manga to be ahead of anime (traditional model) , just because I prefer the manga and that way I can enjoy fresher material . That doesn’t mean I dislike the anime , of course. Right now I watched the new weekly one piece episode that correlates with a manga chapter that I read 10 months ago , AndI really enjoyed it , in fact a cried hahahahaha

[Miracles]

Gohan will lose in a joint effort with Roshi to take out Kefla. Maybe even 17 helps Gohan against her...But I'm not buying Gohan takes her by himself.

[Saiga]

I think this is going to be the manga's version of Gohan&Freeza vs Dyspo, with Kafla replacing Dyspo. So Gohan will sacrifice himself so Freeza can eliminate both Kafla and Gohan.

That's assuming Toriyama's notes were specific enough to include Freeza and Gohan teaming up.

I don't think Dyspo will be God-tier in the manga, he hasn't shown that level and Toppo has some kind of 'God aura' power up to reach that level.

[sintzu]

I think this is going to be the manga's version of Gohan&Freeza vs Dyspo, with Kafla replacing Dyspo. So Gohan will sacrifice himself so Freeza can eliminate both Kafla and Gohan.

That's assuming Toriyama's notes were specific enough to include Freeza and Gohan teaming up.

I don't think Dyspo will be God-tier in the manga, he hasn't shown that level and Toppo has some kind of 'God aura' power up to reach that level.

Who do you think will take Dyspo down ? a possible team up between Freeza and 17 ?

[Saiga]

Maybe 17, since he fought Super Saiyan 2-3 Goku and Dyspo was able to give SS2 Goku issues. Freeza seems like he'd be overkill assuming that I'm correct about Dyspo not being God-tier.

He could also be someone Roshi takes out (through Mafuba or self-sacrifice), since it's just him and Kahseral left.

[Bergamo]

Why do people complain that Berserk Kale didnt kill anybody? When has a capable martial artist died completely arbitrarily? Why not complain about how Recoome didn't kill anybody even though he had the intent and the capability? I thought this was just one of those things that you accept because it's necessary for the plot to make sense, like how we accept that Jiren doesn't immediately knock all of the competitors out of the ring. I didn't know that suspension of disbelief was the same thing as a plot hole.

[reecehoward]

Why do people complain that Berserk Kale didnt kill anybody? When has a capable martial artist died completely arbitrarily? Why not complain about how Recoome didn't kill anybody even though he had the intent and the capability? I thought this was just one of those things that you accept because it's necessary for the plot to make sense, like how we accept that Jiren doesn't immediately knock all of the competitors out of the ring. I didn't know that suspension of disbelief was the same thing as a plot hole.

I mean, Recoome is kind of a bad example seeing as he actually did break Gohan's neck when he was inclined to.

[Bergamo]

Why do people complain that Berserk Kale didnt kill anybody? When has a capable martial artist died completely arbitrarily? Why not complain about how Recoome didn't kill anybody even though he had the intent and the capability? I thought this was just one of those things that you accept because it's necessary for the plot to make sense, like how we accept that Jiren doesn't immediately knock all of the competitors out of the ring. I didn't know that suspension of disbelief was the same thing as a plot hole.

I mean, Recoome is kind of a bad example seeing as he actually did break Gohan's neck when he was inclined to.

The point is that he ALMOST killed Gohan. Everyone in DB gets almost killed all the time, but it's a big deal when they actually die.

[Miracles]

Why do people complain that Berserk Kale didnt kill anybody? When has a capable martial artist died completely arbitrarily? Why not complain about how Recoome didn't kill anybody even though he had the intent and the capability? I thought this was just one of those things that you accept because it's necessary for the plot to make sense, like how we accept that Jiren doesn't immediately knock all of the competitors out of the ring. I didn't know that suspension of disbelief was the same thing as a plot hole.

Kale throwing people of the ring is really killing people cause they are going to get erased anyway.