Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

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Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:54 pm

Maybe not immediately, but by the descendants of Krillin, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Chaozu, and maybe 17's family? Could they develop their own "S Cell" version for Humans(H Cells???), and use those cells to trigger a reservoir of latent power similar to the SSJ/SSJG transformations?
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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Pantalones » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:09 pm

Does the God transformation even relate to S-cells? I would assume Super Saiyan Blue definitely does since it's a combination SSj/God form, but the red God transformation seems like something on a completely different line from the regular Super Saiyan forms, and maybe even something that other races could potentially have an equivalent for (heck, Heroes has already given Namekians a red-eyed form... and whaddya know, it's their god-level transformation!)

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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Waluigiman » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:21 pm

Pantalones wrote:Does the God transformation even relate to S-cells? I would assume Super Saiyan Blue definitely does since it's a combination SSj/God form, but the red God transformation seems like something on a completely different line from the regular Super Saiyan forms, and maybe even something that other races could potentially have an equivalent for (heck, Heroes has already given Namekians a red-eyed form... and whaddya know, it's their god-level transformation!)
Well I suppose you are right. and I want this to happen and is not impossible unless they keep ignoring the non-saiyan races. Beerus dreamed about the Super Saiyan God but there was no rule that humans can't do something similar.

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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by AnzuMazaki » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:42 pm

Waluigiman wrote:
Pantalones wrote:Does the God transformation even relate to S-cells? I would assume Super Saiyan Blue definitely does since it's a combination SSj/God form, but the red God transformation seems like something on a completely different line from the regular Super Saiyan forms, and maybe even something that other races could potentially have an equivalent for (heck, Heroes has already given Namekians a red-eyed form... and whaddya know, it's their god-level transformation!)
Well I suppose you are right. and I want this to happen and is not impossible unless they keep ignoring the non-saiyan races. Beerus dreamed about the Super Saiyan God but there was no rule that humans can't do something similar.
I wish that Yamcha, Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Chaozu could get power ups like the Saiyans.
It would be nice to see them fight again.
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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Lionel » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:57 pm

I would prefer to see something else beyond yet another stockpile of transformations. Those plot devices have become so commonplace that I find myself shying away from them now.

My proposal for giving the humans a much needed foothold into the "god realm" of power would entail the obvious means like god ki bestowal, training with Whis, Ultimate potential unlocks, and equipping them with what was the most in-your-face weapon for acquiring power and that is the Kaioken. Something else that could be investigated is the physiological condition of the human body regarding our muscular structure. Supposedly only a certain percentage of our musculature is actually utilised. I've referenced this in a previous topic but there's an acute pinnacle state of human capability known as excited delirium or hysterical strength where neurochemical activity reaches a sort of zenith through the transferal of things like noradrenaline throughout the system. Accounts of this condition are anecdotal but from what's been described, it's enabled people to lift and pull things that are well over ten times their own body weight.

You might say that something like this already exists with the Saiyan characters like Gohan, Trunks, and Vegeta that one time when Bulma was slapped. Those situations seem to be intrinsically linked to their transformations and ki in general, though. Excited delirium is a biologic based condition. Hopefully it wouldn't be looked at as an appropriated condition -- even though the state should already have been technically possible for humans prior to the introduction of Saiyans.

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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Grimlock » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:13 am

Pantalones wrote:(heck, Heroes has already given Namekians a red-eyed form... and whaddya know, it's their god-level transformation!)
While the way Heroes used the red-eyed form to Namekuseijins implies it is their "god-level transformation", that is not its true purpose at all. They just came to know about the red-eyed form and since they were evolving the avatars (Saiyans in that occasions were getting Super Saiyan God), they took advantage and added the form introduced in Dragon Ball Online, and used it as if it was their "god form".

We must look at Dragon Ball Online: despite we don't know anything about the transformation from it, it's clearly not meant to be Namekuseijins' god form.


Anyways, as for the thread's question: I don't know if I would like to see humans transforming, kind of funny considering this franchise has become a "transformation bargain sale". Humans becoming god also kind of harms Dende as a whole, who he is his role and such. I think they should just learn the Kaio-Ken technique and that's it.

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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Pantalones » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:59 am

While the way Heroes used the red-eyed form to Namekuseijins implies it is their "god-level transformation", that is not its true purpose at all. They just came to know about the red-eyed form and since they were evolving the avatars (Saiyans in that occasions were getting Super Saiyan God), they took advantage and added the form introduced in Dragon Ball Online, and used it as if it was their "god form".

We must look at Dragon Ball Online: despite we don't know anything about the transformation from it, it's clearly not meant to be Namekuseijins' god form.
Ah, I didn't realize the whole red-eyed Namekian thing was originally from Dragonball Online and only got brought over to Heroes later.

From what I'm able to find on the wiki and various other places, it seems like the form in DBO was more along the lines of an equivalent of Super Saiyan for the Namekians -- one of the unnamed warriors is shown powering up to this form in order to catch up with the power of a Super Saiyan transformation. So maybe the form itself doesn't provide an increase in power along the lines of the absurd boost Super Saiyan God gives, but still... imagine somebody like Piccolo getting a 50x boost on top of his already-Super-Saiyan-like base level!

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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:53 am

Well technically Tenshinhan is not human so he will develop his own kind of transformation, as for Kuririn, Yamcha, Yajirobe and others human characters I don't think there is need of "S-Cells" for them to have their own transformation. Look at frieza for instance and his Golden Frieza form.

If we look at earth people and races I noticed that there is a lot of wolf/dog humanoid character more than any others species like cat or mice. So one can argue that the Human evolved from a wolf/dog subspecies instead of a monkey, so their Super transformation would be based on wolf aspect.

And for half breed like Gohan maybe he can have access to this transformation too.
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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Waluigiman » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:50 am

AnzuMazaki wrote:
Waluigiman wrote:
Pantalones wrote:Does the God transformation even relate to S-cells? I would assume Super Saiyan Blue definitely does since it's a combination SSj/God form, but the red God transformation seems like something on a completely different line from the regular Super Saiyan forms, and maybe even something that other races could potentially have an equivalent for (heck, Heroes has already given Namekians a red-eyed form... and whaddya know, it's their god-level transformation!)
Well I suppose you are right. and I want this to happen and is not impossible unless they keep ignoring the non-saiyan races. Beerus dreamed about the Super Saiyan God but there was no rule that humans can't do something similar.
I wish that Yamcha, Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Chaozu could get power ups like the Saiyans.
It would be nice to see them fight again.
Tell me about it, I will be 100% satisfied if they did. It will be unlogical to say that they have no powerups or transformations because humans don't do that in real life when they already fly,use ki attacks, and are strong enough to shatter their own planet. Yamcha could easily be a werewolf and Tien can have something related to his third eye and Chiaotzu could get new powers and Krillin should explore more on his ki control or something like that.

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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by ulisa » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:10 am

I always felt the humans should have some ability exclusive to them that had to do with ki. Goku and the others’ ability to sense and detect ki without the aid of technology is something Vegeta comments on until he learns it. If that’s something humans learn easily then I would think some kind of ki-based ability that other races can’t access (except maybe half breeds due to the mixed blood; Vegeta did say a hybrid would be powerful) would be more than appropriate.
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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Nickolaidas » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:55 am

If Toriyama wanted the humans to have an edge, he would've given them one. I think Toriyama/Toei want humans to be obsolete in order to highlight the strength of the Saiyans. Heck, even Piccolo doesn't register as a legitimate combatant anymore.

But here's the funny part: Humans (and Namekians) do not NEED to be as strong as the Saiyans - they just need to have some narrative built AROUND them. Look at the Marvel Universe. Is everyone as strong as the Hulk? No. But they have narrative built around them to keep them relevant.

Dragon Ball could do the same thing - they just choose not to. For example, the humans and Piccolo could've killed Nappa and get wasted by Vegeta, leaving him for Goku. But Toriyama wanted us to see how awesome Goku is compared to the humans so he choose to have them killed by Nappa in order to give us a completely one-sided, boring and unnecessary fight which had no tension whatsoever. Same thing with Recoome. Same thing with Drum. Same thing with half of the Movie Villains' minions ... you get the idea.

For all its faults, RoF did a good thing by having the Z Squad beat every single antagonist and leaving Frieza for Goku - that's how it should always go, imo.

Or better yet, create situations where the humans play their part in saving the day in original situations - suppose the big bad has a force field which makes him immune to damage and begins to beat the living snot out of Goku and Vegeta with impunity. Piccolo hears the big bad telling Goku that he's invincible as long as his force field generators are active and telepathically relates the info to the humans, urging them to go to four different locations (while the Saiyans keep the big bad busy) and blast the force field generators. Yamcha, Tien, Krillin and Piccolo go to a different generator, fight and kill the mook that guards it, the force field is down, now the Saiyans can battle on even terms. Whoopie dee fucking doo, the day is saved and EVERYONE feels good about himself.

As long as narrative can be built around the humans' low power level, they can fit into the story and be relevant. They don't need to get UI.

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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Waluigiman » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:43 am

Nickolaidas wrote:If Toriyama wanted the humans to have an edge, he would've given them one. I think Toriyama/Toei want humans to be obsolete in order to highlight the strength of the Saiyans. Heck, even Piccolo doesn't register as a legitimate combatant anymore.

But here's the funny part: Humans (and Namekians) do not NEED to be as strong as the Saiyans - they just need to have some narrative built AROUND them. Look at the Marvel Universe. Is everyone as strong as the Hulk? No. But they have narrative built around them to keep them relevant.

Dragon Ball could do the same thing - they just choose not to. For example, the humans and Piccolo could've killed Nappa and get wasted by Vegeta, leaving him for Goku. But Toriyama wanted us to see how awesome Goku is compared to the humans so he choose to have them killed by Nappa in order to give us a completely one-sided, boring and unnecessary fight which had no tension whatsoever. Same thing with Recoome. Same thing with Drum. Same thing with half of the Movie Villains' minions ... you get the idea.

For all its faults, RoF did a good thing by having the Z Squad beat every single antagonist and leaving Frieza for Goku - that's how it should always go, imo.

Or better yet, create situations where the humans play their part in saving the day in original situations - suppose the big bad has a force field which makes him immune to damage and begins to beat the living snot out of Goku and Vegeta with impunity. Piccolo hears the big bad telling Goku that he's invincible as long as his force field generators are active and telepathically relates the info to the humans, urging them to go to four different locations (while the Saiyans keep the big bad busy) and blast the force field generators. Yamcha, Tien, Krillin and Piccolo go to a different generator, fight and kill the mook that guards it, the force field is down, now the Saiyans can battle on even terms. Whoopie dee fucking doo, the day is saved and EVERYONE feels good about himself.

As long as narrative can be built around the humans' low power level, they can fit into the story and be relevant. They don't need to get UI.
You are not halfwrong at all. I agree with all of this including what I underlined as I seen people claim that the man behind One Piece is good at utilizing characters by doing this. I say this the closest we can get here as a Humans and Nameks fan club.

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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Olympian » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:31 am

Nickolaidas wrote:If Toriyama wanted the humans to have an edge, he would've given them one. I think Toriyama/Toei want humans to be obsolete in order to highlight the strength of the Saiyans. Heck, even Piccolo doesn't register as a legitimate combatant anymore.

But here's the funny part: Humans (and Namekians) do not NEED to be as strong as the Saiyans - they just need to have some narrative built AROUND them. Look at the Marvel Universe. Is everyone as strong as the Hulk? No. But they have narrative built around them to keep them relevant.

Dragon Ball could do the same thing - they just choose not to. For example, the humans and Piccolo could've killed Nappa and get wasted by Vegeta, leaving him for Goku. But Toriyama wanted us to see how awesome Goku is compared to the humans so he choose to have them killed by Nappa in order to give us a completely one-sided, boring and unnecessary fight which had no tension whatsoever. Same thing with Recoome. Same thing with Drum. Same thing with half of the Movie Villains' minions ... you get the idea.

For all its faults, RoF did a good thing by having the Z Squad beat every single antagonist and leaving Frieza for Goku - that's how it should always go, imo.

Or better yet, create situations where the humans play their part in saving the day in original situations - suppose the big bad has a force field which makes him immune to damage and begins to beat the living snot out of Goku and Vegeta with impunity. Piccolo hears the big bad telling Goku that he's invincible as long as his force field generators are active and telepathically relates the info to the humans, urging them to go to four different locations (while the Saiyans keep the big bad busy) and blast the force field generators. Yamcha, Tien, Krillin and Piccolo go to a different generator, fight and kill the mook that guards it, the force field is down, now the Saiyans can battle on even terms. Whoopie dee fucking doo, the day is saved and EVERYONE feels good about himself.

As long as narrative can be built around the humans' low power level, they can fit into the story and be relevant. They don't need to get UI.
I wholehartly agree. You don`t need transformations. You need expanding plot outside Saiyans.

Futhermore, the humans, low level as they be compared to the migthy Saiyan crowd should still mostly edge them out in certain not-so-obvious ways. Tactics (Saiyans weren`t necessarily big on this since they didn`t have to), Ki control (finesse/design of most original techniques of the franchise) and most of all, teamwork.

Goku will always be an exception because he`s both Saiyan and a trained Martial Artist on Earth but while his fighting instincts are suberb he`s still not smart around the obvious get-go. But Toryama would have to care and he doesn`t. The human squad remains popular with so little and there is no motivation to grant their fanbases more than they are handled.
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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:14 am

Olympian wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:If Toriyama wanted the humans to have an edge, he would've given them one. I think Toriyama/Toei want humans to be obsolete in order to highlight the strength of the Saiyans. Heck, even Piccolo doesn't register as a legitimate combatant anymore.

But here's the funny part: Humans (and Namekians) do not NEED to be as strong as the Saiyans - they just need to have some narrative built AROUND them. Look at the Marvel Universe. Is everyone as strong as the Hulk? No. But they have narrative built around them to keep them relevant.

Dragon Ball could do the same thing - they just choose not to. For example, the humans and Piccolo could've killed Nappa and get wasted by Vegeta, leaving him for Goku. But Toriyama wanted us to see how awesome Goku is compared to the humans so he choose to have them killed by Nappa in order to give us a completely one-sided, boring and unnecessary fight which had no tension whatsoever. Same thing with Recoome. Same thing with Drum. Same thing with half of the Movie Villains' minions ... you get the idea.

For all its faults, RoF did a good thing by having the Z Squad beat every single antagonist and leaving Frieza for Goku - that's how it should always go, imo.

Or better yet, create situations where the humans play their part in saving the day in original situations - suppose the big bad has a force field which makes him immune to damage and begins to beat the living snot out of Goku and Vegeta with impunity. Piccolo hears the big bad telling Goku that he's invincible as long as his force field generators are active and telepathically relates the info to the humans, urging them to go to four different locations (while the Saiyans keep the big bad busy) and blast the force field generators. Yamcha, Tien, Krillin and Piccolo go to a different generator, fight and kill the mook that guards it, the force field is down, now the Saiyans can battle on even terms. Whoopie dee fucking doo, the day is saved and EVERYONE feels good about himself.

As long as narrative can be built around the humans' low power level, they can fit into the story and be relevant. They don't need to get UI.
I wholehartly agree. You don`t need transformations. You need expanding plot outside Saiyans.

Futhermore, the humans, low level as they be compared to the migthy Saiyan crowd should still mostly edge them out in certain not-so-obvious ways. Tactics (Saiyans weren`t necessarily big on this since they didn`t have to), Ki control (finesse/design of most original techniques of the franchise) and most of all, teamwork.

Goku will always be an exception because he`s both Saiyan and a trained Martial Artist on Earth but while his fighting instincts are suberb he`s still not smart around the obvious get-go. But Toryama would have to care and he doesn`t. The human squad remains popular with so little and there is no motivation to grant their fanbases more than they are handled.
But it's not interesting in a marketing sens, if human have transformation that's mean more figure to sell and more merchendising :D
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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Olympian » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:57 pm

I`m not complaining if they give them buff forms or transformations and and I know how that makes marlet sense. I`m just pointing out that you don`t require that for the characters to be used more.

In the end either approach would have to translate into narrative effort from the part of the creator(s) and that is what seems impossible to come up with.
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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Ssjcell » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:45 pm

I don't think the humans can access a form similar to super Saiyan or SSG , they would have figured it out already don't think it's happening Bros...

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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Waluigiman » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:24 am

If there are no plans for transformations which I doubt there are, I will be content if in the future they do something like this: Like have a small group in each arc and change its members constantly but it wil always have Goku involved because he is obviously the main character. [spoiler]Example: have Goku,Krillin, Yamcha,and 18 in one story and later have Goku, Goten, Tien, and Buu in another.[/spoiler] They don't have to be equally strong as Goku but their impact should be greater.

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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Lionel » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:52 am

What these characters thrive at is combat. Dragon Ball is almost singularly defined by the meritorious efforts of those who are able to push themselves to new heights in strength and overcome whatever challenges come their way. Sure, non ancillary combat roles can be had, Bulma representing one such important example, but they're more often interpreted as the foundational bridge leading from one event to the next instead of representing the core conflict. If you want to change that then you would probably have to do an overhaul of the series as a whole. Because as it stands, I don't know what validation the humans could receive from whatever alternative skills they might have like... Chaozu's crop picking with telekinesis or Yamcha's baseball career. How do you mould an interesting and meaningful narrative around things like that in a setting such as Dragon Ball (outside of passive filler arcs)?

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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:22 am

Ssjcell wrote:I don't think the humans can access a form similar to super Saiyan or SSG , they would have figured it out already don't think it's happening Bros...
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Re: Could The Human Characters Develop A "Super Human/Super Human God" Transformation Like Yamoshi Did For The Saiyans?

Post by Meshack » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:30 pm

Doubtful cause Saiyans are Saiyans. They’re aliens. They have a different biology to be able to transform. The Earthlings are based on real human beings.

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