Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Jesus-is Lord]

Z power scailing was fine. Kuririn = imperfect cell? what? That small filler fight? you really taking that as Kuririn is as strong as imperfect cell?

The manga is fine. The anime-original scenes?

Uh...

dude stop, that fight Kuririn got comically trashed in.

Krillin dodged several hits from him and landed a good punch to the gut that gave Cell pain and knocked the wind out of him. Anyway, I'm not saying he's actually that strong. I'm saying that the exact same logic used to argue Super power levels would produce such results if we applied them to Toei's Z.

ultimate gohan weaker then base goku? don't tell me you are looking at the filler of when gohst gohan fought goku as ssj. Dude, they are ghost - they aren't even real. lol.

Goku explicitly states that ghost!Gohan is as strong as the original.

Oh cmon, don't do this. Alright whatever, bring it on!

He hit cell while not looking A.
He nerveously dodged cell's attack while cell was visibilly not trying. And proceed to do absloutly nothing in the fight except solar flare so he could get the HECK out of there before he turns into some home-made soup for cell. When he got onto the plane, he sized up cell, tried to attack and efforteslly got waxed. Cell wasn't even trying to ruthlessly kill him since he didn't need to exert such power. There's no bad power scailing, you're just being a little to up-tight, but you're brainiac so why am I surprised you look at everything very seriously.

Yeah, but Z made an effort in their filler to clearly show when someone was an outmatched, and they usally kept the wacky stuff to more minor filler... I guess they were adapting og manga so they didn't have much of a choice ahahah, but still. Z's power scailing was fine. The same logic can't be applied to Z anime because they didn't screw up like super.

Gotta give me the soruce of when goku said that, and if he did say that then I agree. Though you exagerrated base > ultimate gohan, it was more ssj goku > gohan.

[Bergamo]

Z power scailing was fine. Kuririn = imperfect cell? what? That small filler fight? you really taking that as Kuririn is as strong as imperfect cell?

The manga is fine. The anime-original scenes?

Uh...

dude stop, that fight Kuririn got comically trashed in.

Krillin dodged several hits from him and landed a good punch to the gut that gave Cell pain and knocked the wind out of him. Anyway, I'm not saying he's actually that strong. I'm saying that the exact same logic used to argue Super power levels would produce such results if we applied them to Toei's Z.

ultimate gohan weaker then base goku? don't tell me you are looking at the filler of when gohst gohan fought goku as ssj. Dude, they are ghost - they aren't even real. lol.

Goku explicitly states that ghost!Gohan is as strong as the original.

Oh cmon, don't do this. Alright whatever, bring it on!

He hit cell while not looking A.
He nerveously dodged cell's attack while cell was visibilly not trying. And proceed to do absloutly nothing in the fight except solar flare so he could get the HECK out of there before he turns into some home-made soup for cell. When he got onto the plane, he sized up cell, tried to attack and efforteslly got waxed. Cell wasn't even trying to ruthlessly kill him since he didn't need to exert such power. There's no bad power scailing, you're just being a little to up-tight, but you're brainiac so why am I surprised you look at everything very seriously.

Yeah, but Z made an effort in their filler to clearly show when someone was an outmatched, and they usally kept the wacky stuff to more minor filler... I guess they were adapting og manga so they didn't have much of a choice ahahah, but still. Z's power scailing was fine. The same logic can't be applied to Z anime because they didn't screw up like super.

Gotta give me the soruce of when goku said that, and if he did say that then I agree. Though you exagerrated base > ultimate gohan, it was more ssj goku > gohan.

What he's saying is that if people used the same, "he hit a blue tier character once so he's blue tier," logic on this scene, then it would break the power scale.

[Jesus-is Lord]

The manga is fine. The anime-original scenes?

Uh...

Krillin dodged several hits from him and landed a good punch to the gut that gave Cell pain and knocked the wind out of him. Anyway, I'm not saying he's actually that strong. I'm saying that the exact same logic used to argue Super power levels would produce such results if we applied them to Toei's Z.

Goku explicitly states that ghost!Gohan is as strong as the original.

Oh cmon, don't do this. Alright whatever, bring it on!

He hit cell while not looking A.
He nerveously dodged cell's attack while cell was visibilly not trying. And proceed to do absloutly nothing in the fight except solar flare so he could get the HECK out of there before he turns into some home-made soup for cell. When he got onto the plane, he sized up cell, tried to attack and efforteslly got waxed. Cell wasn't even trying to ruthlessly kill him since he didn't need to exert such power. There's no bad power scailing, you're just being a little to up-tight, but you're brainiac so why am I surprised you look at everything very seriously.

Yeah, but Z made an effort in their filler to clearly show when someone was an outmatched, and they usally kept the wacky stuff to more minor filler... I guess they were adapting og manga so they didn't have much of a choice ahahah, but still. Z's power scailing was fine. The same logic can't be applied to Z anime because they didn't screw up like super.

Gotta give me the soruce of when goku said that, and if he did say that then I agree. Though you exagerrated base > ultimate gohan, it was more ssj goku > gohan.

What he's saying is that if people used the same, "he hit a blue tier character once so he's blue tier," logic on this scene, then it would break the power scale.

I don't think this intentions were so innocent, he was trying to say toei in general can't and NEVER has been able to power scale well, not trying to stop people from jumping to conclusions for one show and not the other.

[ZombieVito]

Immortality only makes it so you don’t die. It doesn’t explain why Zamasu’s reflexes and speed were so sharp that he could keep up with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan in all his encounters and later Rage.

That and Black was sure Zamasu could kill Trunks by himself despite Trunks having Rage and Goku and Vegeta wanted to help him. If Black’s hope was that Zamasu would wear Trunks down and then kill him, that wouldn’t match why Goku and Vegeta were in such a hurry to go to Trunks’ side.

Goku was holding back against him. It makes no sense to fight an immortal at 100%. You'll die sooner.

We don't know how long would Trunks last against Zamasu. For all we know he can get tired in minutes.

Zamasu never fought Rage 1 on 1 by the way. The hair was not from the Rage transformation when they fight.

[Bullza]

That was Rage. And he didn’t even fight Zamasu. He grabbed him and Zamasu didn’t even try to free himself. He instead mocked about what he was going to do.

He powered down from his Rage state after exerting all that energy in blasting away Black.

That's why his hair changed back to his Super Saiyan style and he no longer had the aura.

[PFM18]

And you're the same guy who straight up lied and said goku as a SSJ god in super said fusion wouldn't be enough and used that false information to justify that ssj goku > ssj god in BoG.

I know I said that I am going to disregard your posts because discussing things with you isn't worth my time, but you are misrepresenting me so I will make an exception.

That quite literally isn't remotely what was being discussed. This was not to justify current SSJ Goku>SSG(although that is also true) it was in regards to showing that SSG Goku>any form of Vegetto. The obvious implication from the following events is that SSG Goku>Vegetto:

-Goku saying against the most suppressed Beerus, that fusion wouldn't even be enough against him. And then Obviously Beerus is forced to use more than that power against SSG.
-Goku said that he didn't think that this level of power could even exist, when he was familiar with the power that Vegetto had and obviously knows that level of power was possible. If SSG was weaker than Vegetto, this piece of dialogue wouldn't make any sense.

This is quite literally undeniable and I have no idea how you thought it was rational to refute this with a fight that happened 100 episodes later and the circumstances were completely different.

Actually, yes, he did. He hit them and actually caused them pain. He grappled with them and pushed them back. In every way he showed himself to be on their level.

I don't recall it going that way but I'll take your word for it. So then if we are operating under the premise that he IS Blue tier, what is even wrong with that? Future Zamasu is simply Present Zamasu+13 years of training. I see no reason why he couldn't reach Blue tier in that time. Not particularly inconsistent for this to be the case.

Because there effectively wasn't. A few days of training would give basically no returns whatsoever even going by the logic of the anime given that we know he trained for several years straight and was still weaker than Dabra.

What? We have no idea how long before Dabura showed up and he had issues with him. The exact time was never given. All that we know is that it was some time in the 13 years since we had seen Future Trunks. Also, you can dispute the explanation not being very reasonable, but you acting as though there wasn't is just disingenuous. There is no "there effectively wasn't" because there was. You just didn't like it. Hybrid Saiyans have higher potential and who knows what Vegeta taught him during that time. He obviously learned the Galick Ho during this time. I don't see this as being particularly bad at all. But then again, I'm not consciously looking for little things to nitpick about the show either.

And what would you have wanted instead? Trunks to show up and be one shot instantly upon Black Rose attacking him?

If it did multiply his power thousands of times over (which is, in fact, not irrelevant to point out) then this is just another example of the anime's terrible inconsistency.

Well if we are going to entertaining quantifying the boost, I see no reason why this would be the level of the boost required. Why would it have to be "thousands of times over"? The way I see it, SSJ2 Goku->SSB Goku is about a 400x difference. That is the gap that Trunks would have to close during this time.

[RandomGuy96]

I don't recall it going that way but I'll take your word for it. So then if we are operating under the premise that he IS Blue tier, what is even wrong with that? Future Zamasu is simply Present Zamasu+13 years of training. I see no reason why he couldn't reach Blue tier in that time. Not particularly inconsistent for this to be the case.

Because he was never noted to have powered up. Because was millions of years old and already fighting-obsessed yet in those millions of years he apparently didn't gain as much power as he gained in a decade.

What? We have no idea how long before Dabura showed up and he had issues with him. The exact time was never given. All that we know is that it was some time in the 13 years since we had seen Future Trunks.

We know for a fact that it was more than 3 years after the Cell arc, since that's when he killed Future Cell.

Also, you can dispute the explanation not being very reasonable, but you acting as though there wasn't is just disingenuous. There is no "there effectively wasn't" because there was. You just didn't like it. Hybrid Saiyans have higher potential and who knows what Vegeta taught him during that time. He obviously learned the Galick Ho during this time. I don't see this as being particularly bad at all. But then again, I'm not consciously looking for little things to nitpick about the show either.

Yeah no, it's complete bullshit. Trunks has never gained power at that rate. No one has ever gained power at that rate. There wasn't any time for him to gain that much power. So yes, there was effectively no real explanation for why he went from being fodder to base Black to being able to hold his own against Rose Black. He just did. Because Toei.

And what would you have wanted instead? Trunks to show up and be one shot instantly upon Black Rose attacking him?

Trunks to stay out of fights he has no business in. I want some consistency.

The way I see it, SSJ2 Goku->SSB Goku is about a 400x difference. That is the gap that Trunks would have to close during this time.

That's not really any better for his few days of training.

[PFM18]

Yeah no, it's complete bullshit. Trunks has never gained power at that rate. No one has ever gained power at that rate. There wasn't any time for him to gain that much power. So yes, there was effectively no real explanation for why he went from being fodder to base Black to being able to hold his own against Rose Black. He just did. Because Toei.

This was all assuming that Trunks~SSR Black and discussing how this could come to be, but realistically that really isn't the case in the first place. He hit Black a couple times but saying that he "held his own" is kind of an exaggeration imo. It was clear that there was a large gap there. Was it inconsistently shown? Yes. Was it still ultimately narratively made clear tha SSR Black>>>>SSJ2 Trunks? Yes, absolutely. I do agree to some extent and believe this is one of the most egregious mistakes in terms of power scaling in the entire DBS anime, but I don't believe that it isn't even close to as bad as you make it out to be. However, that appears to be par for the course. I think I am going to have to agree to disagree with you especially in terms of Future Zamasu.

[HeroR]

In 2019 when the DBS Manga is ahead of the anime, let's see how many anime fans don't read it because it's not the main product. Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball. The manga probably would have been as popular as the anime if it wasn't so far behind.

But the manga was ahead of the anime for months since it abridged Battle of Gods more than tv series and it skipped the Resurrection 'F'. A lot of fans still didn't read the manga or even know it existed. Granted, manga readership did take a noticeably drive after the anime left it in the dust.

Overall, I Super manga was never going to be as popular as the anime because it's a) month and b) it's in V-Jump.

I swear if someone tries to use the "main product" argument one more time I will lose my head. Do you know what is a good reason to follow an adaptation? Quality. Do you know what is completely unrelated to profits? Quality.

Truth is truth. The anime is a main produce, the manga was made to promote the anime. So by all means, lose your head.

[Bullza]

Yeah he clearly didn't hold his own. He had that very brief interval where he kicked Rose Black into a building, an entire five second confrontation and that was it.

The next time that they confronted him, Super Saiyan Blue Goku, Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta and Super Saiyan 2 Trunks went at him one after the other and none of them could so much as even hit him.

[HeroR]

Immortality only makes it so you don’t die. It doesn’t explain why Zamasu’s reflexes and speed were so sharp that he could keep up with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan in all his encounters and later Rage.

That and Black was sure Zamasu could kill Trunks by himself despite Trunks having Rage and Goku and Vegeta wanted to help him. If Black’s hope was that Zamasu would wear Trunks down and then kill him, that wouldn’t match why Goku and Vegeta were in such a hurry to go to Trunks’ side.

Goku was holding back against him. It makes no sense to fight an immortal at 100%. You'll die sooner.

We don't know how long would Trunks last against Zamasu. For all we know he can get tired in minutes.

Zamasu never fought Rage 1 on 1 by the way. The hair was not from the Rage transformation when they fight.

Why would Goku hold back in a situation where he has to deal with Black who just impaled Vegeta? And Zamasu was given Goku problems before he learned that he was an immortal.

And even in the Super manga, it shows us what a fight would look like if Zamasu was completely fodder to Goku even with immorality. Dragon Ball is a same show where a small power different means this happens:

https://youtu.be/jLZzdr5F-2c?t=77

That was Rage. And he didn’t even fight Zamasu. He grabbed him and Zamasu didn’t even try to free himself. He instead mocked about what he was going to do.

He powered down from his Rage state after exerting all that energy in blasting away Black.

That's why his hair changed back to his Super Saiyan style and he no longer had the aura.

Having an aura or not isn't what indicates that he isn't using Rage or not.

It's weird that so many people Future Zamasu is the same strength as Present Zamasu despite 13 years passing and we had someone like Android 17 go from being weaker than Imperfect Cell to trading hands with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan in a little more of a decade. And before someone says 'well 17 was modified', Goku believed that with training that Zamasu could surpassed Beerus one day and Zamasu was called a prodigy. You know, the magic word that makes people like Freeza reach god-tier in four months or Cali to advantage as fast as she did.

[superfan2024]

Based on what we've seen so far,

Base Broly (yellow eyes) greater than or equal to Blue Goku

SSJ Broly (yellow hair not green yet) most likely greater than Blue Goku and is shown to still be getting stronger in the trailer. Toyotaro's little drawing also shows both Goku and Vegeta (two SSJBs) having a rough time against SSJ Broly.

And we haven't seen green haired Broly in action yet so this is still exciting as there's no way Goku’s going to win without either UI, fusion, or some other savior. Or if Broly runs himself out.

Correct so far?

[Bergamo]

In 2019 when the DBS Manga is ahead of the anime, let's see how many anime fans don't read it because it's not the main product. Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball. The manga probably would have been as popular as the anime if it wasn't so far behind.

But the manga was ahead of the anime for months since it abridged Battle of Gods more than tv series and it skipped the Resurrection 'F'. A lot of fans still didn't read the manga or even know it existed. Granted, manga readership did take a noticeably drive after the anime left it in the dust.

Overall, I Super manga was never going to be as popular as the anime because it's a) month and b) it's in V-Jump.

I swear if someone tries to use the "main product" argument one more time I will lose my head. Do you know what is a good reason to follow an adaptation? Quality. Do you know what is completely unrelated to profits? Quality.

Truth is truth. The anime is a main produce, the manga was made to promote the anime. So by all means, lose your head.

I understand what a fact is, but do you understand what an opinion is? I understand that the anime is the main product, but that doesn't make it better than the manga.

[PFM18]

Yeah he clearly didn't hold his own. He had that very brief interval where he kicked Rose Black into a building, an entire five second confrontation and that was it.

The next time that they confronted him, Super Saiyan Blue Goku, Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta and Super Saiyan 2 Trunks went at him one after the other and none of them could so much as even hit him.

That's what I've been trying to say lol. You said it better than I it appears

[ZombieVito]

Why would Goku hold back in a situation where he has to deal with Black who just impaled Vegeta? And Zamasu was given Goku problems before he learned that he was an immortal.

And even in the Super manga, it shows us what a fight would look like if Zamasu was completely fodder to Goku even with immorality. Dragon Ball is a same show where a small power different means this happens:

https://youtu.be/jLZzdr5F-2c?t=77

Having an aura or not isn't what indicates that he isn't using Rage or not.

It's weird that so many people Future Zamasu is the same strength as Present Zamasu despite 13 years passing and we had someone like Android 17 go from being weaker than Imperfect Cell to trading hands with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan in a little more of a decade. And before someone says 'well 17 was modified', Goku believed that with training that Zamasu could surpassed Beerus one day and Zamasu was called a prodigy. You know, the magic word that makes people like Freeza reach god-tier in four months or Cali to advantage as fast as she did.

So are you going to ignore that his hair is not from his Rage transformation? He was Super Saiyan 2 while fighting Zamasu.

Also, I don't argue Future Zamasu is not stronger than his present version but he shouldn't be stronger than initial base Black and people also forget his fight with SS2 Trunks in E57, they were on par. Goku also is not going to go straight up and murder Zamasu, he always test out his opponent first.

Goku also doesn't give a shit if Vegeta gets stabbed, just like he didn't give a shit when Vegeta had minutes to live while fighting Commeson Vegeta and he fooled around.

[HeroR]

Why would Goku hold back in a situation where he has to deal with Black who just impaled Vegeta? And Zamasu was given Goku problems before he learned that he was an immortal.

And even in the Super manga, it shows us what a fight would look like if Zamasu was completely fodder to Goku even with immorality. Dragon Ball is a same show where a small power different means this happens:

https://youtu.be/jLZzdr5F-2c?t=77

Having an aura or not isn't what indicates that he isn't using Rage or not.

It's weird that so many people Future Zamasu is the same strength as Present Zamasu despite 13 years passing and we had someone like Android 17 go from being weaker than Imperfect Cell to trading hands with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan in a little more of a decade. And before someone says 'well 17 was modified', Goku believed that with training that Zamasu could surpassed Beerus one day and Zamasu was called a prodigy. You know, the magic word that makes people like Freeza reach god-tier in four months or Cali to advantage as fast as she did.

So are you going to ignore that his hair is not from his Rage transformation? He was Super Saiyan 2 while fighting Zamasu.

Also, I don't argue Future Zamasu is not stronger than his present version but he shouldn't be stronger than initial base Black and people also forget his fight with SS2 Trunks in E57, they were on par. Goku also is not going to go straight up and murder Zamasu, he always test out his opponent first.

Goku also doesn't give a shit if Vegeta gets stabbed, just like he didn't give a shit when Vegeta had minutes to live while fighting Commeson Vegeta and he fooled around.

Why shouldn’t he be stronger than base Black? And Super Saiyan 2 Trunks parried and kicked Rose Black into a building and survived a Kamehameha that wiped Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku out.

And why would Goku test himself against Zamasu when he has Black to deal with and a mortally wounded comrade on the ground? Goku doesn’t play around in these conditions.

And Goku did care since he went straight to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and Trunks noted that Goku was going all out from the start.

I understand what a fact is, but do you understand what an opinion is? I understand that the anime is the main product, but that doesn't make it better than the manga.

I never made a quality argument or statement. All I said was that the anime is the main product for Super, unlike the original manga, and the Super manga will never be as popular even if it’s ahead of the anime because it’s monthly and in V-Jump. I never once said, ‘the anime is better because it’s the main product’.

It’s perfectly fine to like the manga more despite it not being the main product. People adore Z despite it being an adaptation of the manga. People love the Marvel movies despite them being loosely based on decades old comic book stories.

[Skar]

Considering that immediately following the arc in which Cabba was introduced, Goku was established to be able to entertain Beerus in his Base and dominate SSJ3 Gotenks in his Base, that aligns with somebody being on par with his Base being SSJ Vegetto level. This corroborates with what was established in the first two arcs where Goku/Vegeta attained an astronomically large power boost. At an absolute bare minimum, Cabba is leaps and bounds above SSJ3 Gotenks as was shown with Base Goku/Vegeta immediately after fighting Cabba and being on par.

Wasn't there also an anime only scene with SSJ1 Gohan putting up a decent fight against SSJ1 Goku? This is a Gohan who lost so much power that he questioned if he could even turn SSJ in RoF. In DBZ, there were times when anime-only scenes contradicted the manga so I don't know why that can't be applied to DBS. I don't think there are any scenes in the manga that imply base Goku and Vegeta are stronger than Buu saga characters so maybe Toriyama didn't intent for their base to be that strong after making his changes to BoG for DBS. There might be some miscommunication among the anime staff which is why their base power wasn't consistent there.

Goku and Vegeta couldn't have gotten thousands or millions of times stronger to reach Cabba's level during the previous arcs because they are simply not Cabba. Universe 6 Saiyans were stated to have evolved differently and have different biology than the Universe 7 Saiyans.

Out of Universe, this is simply an example of power creep that has been happening constantly throughout the entire series.

Sorry but I don't think something like this constantly happened in the series. Cabba outperforming all of Goku and Vegeta's training combined while also surpassing their fusion is a far greater power-up than anything that has happened in the original manga. If a fan comic decided to have a base Saiyan kid surpass SSJ1 Vegetto and the only explanation is that "he's from a different universe and evolved differently" then that would considered OC wanking. That's more wanking than I've ever witnessed in a fan comic! I would prefer to assume Saiyan Beyond God was retconned and Goku and Vegeta's normal base didn't improve that much than for Cabba to out-train them and rival/surpass than SSJ1 Vegetto.

[Bullza]

Having an aura or not isn't what indicates that he isn't using Rage or not.

Well that's half true because the aura doesn't stay throughout the fight. However Trunks is shown with the blue in his aura prior to them fighting. It is then shown again when he blasts Black into the mountain. When he goes to blow up Zamasu it isn't there

As I mentioned with the hair, if you watch that scene again you can see very clearly, multiple times, that when he's fighting Black he has very spiky sharp hair. When he fights Zamasu it's nothing like that but the same as when he's a Super Saiyan.

So between those two things and that he said he'd lost a lot of energy against Black he was just a Super Saiyan.

It's weird that so many people Future Zamasu is the same strength as Present Zamasu despite 13 years passing and we had someone like Android 17 go from being weaker than Imperfect Cell to trading hands with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan in a little more of a decade.

Well they did specifically say that Android 17 had got a lot stronger. They never said that for Future Zamasu. These Kai's millions upon millions of years old, thirteen years is insignificant in comparison so you wouldn't expect any major difference.

Present Zamasu fought and lost against Super Saiyan 2 Goku. Future Zamasu would have lost against Super Saiyan 2 Trunks had he not been immortal.

[PFM18]

Wasn't there also an anime only scene with SSJ1 Gohan putting up a decent fight against SSJ1 Goku?

Yeah but Goku also admitted to holding back and it was a casual sparring session anyway so even if he didn't state it, it should be obvious he brought himsellf down to Gohan's level.

This is a Gohan who lost so much power that he questioned if he could even turn SSJ in RoF.

This is not the same Gohan. This is factually incorrect. While presumably not extremely frequently or intensely, he had been training since RoF as he stated after the arc adn as we see in the opening of the episodes during this time. This Gohan is stronger than the one in RoF. Even so, his Base must have had significant strength because it was stronger than Piccolo when this obviously wasn't the case in the Buu arc. He was weaker than he was as Ultimate Gohan but still strong enough that he's 50+ times stronger than Piccolo as a SSJ even during RoF and he got stronger since then.

In DBZ, there were times when anime-only scenes contradicted the manga so I don't know why that can't be applied to DBS

That can't be done because the circumstances are entirely different. During DBZ, the anime was based on the original manga by the original creator. This is no longer the case in which each are their own continuity and are equally valid or "canon." The power scaling is completely different in the anime than the manga so it makes zero sense to disregard scenes that aren't in the manga, because they are each their own continuities that handle power scaling differently.

I don't think there are any scenes in the manga that imply base Goku and Vegeta are stronger than Buu saga characters

Well yes this is true, but this is exactly what I mean when I say that the scaling between the manga and anime is totally different. The scene where Goku retained the same level of power as SSG in his SSJ didn't exist in the manga and the scene where Vegeta trains for 6 months while Goku is farming and achieves power that is "completely unrecognizable from what it was on Earth." Neither of these things happened in the manga and they establish this enormous boost that happened in the anime and not the manga.

Sorry but I don't think something like this constantly happened in the series

Well, yeah it is actually, even fodder of the current arc is equal or stronger than what was the big bad from the previous arc. Raditz being stronger than Piccolo Daimao, Dodoria, Zarbon, Cui and the entire Ginyu force are all stronger than the main villain of the previous arc, all of the Androids that weren't even the main villain during their arc(obviously being cell) were vastly superior to Freeza who was the main villain of the previous arc, In the Buu arc a henchman was as strong as the previous arc's main villain. This is power creep. It has been happening constantly throughout the series and I don't know how you came to the conclusion that this doesn't constantly happen in the series.

Cabba outperforming all of Goku and Vegeta's training combined while also surpassing their fusion is a far greater power-up than anything that has happened in the original manga

It is simply a consequence of the power creep in the DBS anime. Characters have to be scaled up to compete with Goku and Vegeta because otherwise it wouldn't make for much of a story.

If a fan comic decided to have a base Saiyan kid surpass SSJ1 Vegetto and the only explanation is that "he's from a different universe and evolved differently" then that would considered OC wanking. That's more wanking than I've ever witnessed in a fan comic!

Yeah, no offense but this is irrelevant to the discussion.

I would prefer to assume Saiyan Beyond God was retconned and Goku and Vegeta's normal base didn't improve that much than for Cabba to out-train them and rival/surpass than SSJ1 Vegetto.

Well "Saiyan Beyond God" was retconned from the movies to the DBS anime. In the movie continuity they had a new form that was essentially their new Base form that they could use God Ki in, and it had surpassed SSG, and this form had rendered SSJ and SSG to be obsolete. This is not the case in the DBS anime, they were just stated/shown to have super strong base forms and it's that simple.

[VegettoEX]

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