Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

Its ultimate gohan. he doesn't have a bang because he didn't have a bang at all in this arc. In Z he had a bang even before potential unlocked. Gohan just powers up, his eyes are the visual cue, toyo doesn't give a bang.

He drew him with a bang here.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I didn't even know there was a Anime vs Manga fandom like that.

Obviously people shouldn't jump to conclusions but people generally will make comment on what has been shown so far. Here we have what appears to be Base Gohan fighting evenly against Super Saiyan Kefla.

Super Saiyan Kefla being superior to Super Saiyan Kale. Super Saiyan Kale being arguably stronger than Blue level characters. So yeah that's strange.

Is it Ultimate Gohan the whole time? I dunno, he was struggling against the Trio Dear Dangers. It would lead you to believe he was weaker than Frost as they just ran from him and Frost is weaker than Super Saiyan Goku.

Master Roshi was actually said to be one of the three weaklings. Yet Jiren seemingly can't get a hand on him but he had no problem hitting Perfected Super Saiyan Blue Goku or Hit.

Maybe it will be explained but that would be the discussion afterward.

I strongly disagree that Kale is above the blue level.

In fact, it was very clear that she is weaker. Golden Freeza stated that he could defeat her if he took her seriously, Goku SSB was not injured and did not have any problems with her, Vegeta SSB gave no importance to Kale and preferred to continue his fight against Toppo, not to mention that Gohan wanted Goku to face Jiren (the strongest) while he (weaker than his father) wanted to deal with Kefla (stronger than Kale).

The power of Kale also drops quickly and Caulifla only had the SSJ in the manga, so I believe that Kefla is not as powerful as in the anime.

In this chapter, Gohan is probably using his Ultimate form, after all, it would not make sense for him to be eliminated without using his full power. His hair is now different from the BoG, so that's probably why he does not have the bang anymore

[MoscoSama]

Its ultimate gohan. he doesn't have a bang because he didn't have a bang at all in this arc. In Z he had a bang even before potential unlocked. Gohan just powers up, his eyes are the visual cue, toyo doesn't give a bang.

He drew him with a bang here.

Didn't gohan have a bang in BoG in his normal state same way in buu arc?
He doesn't have any bang in this arc so no bang when he powers up

[Miracles]

Why don't you wait for context. So you can understand why things are going down the way they do?

Speculation is half the fun. We used to keep making all comments and assumptions just based off of the next episode previews. You've got people making comments about Broly's strength months from that movie releasing.

True.

[prince212]

Well power wise , power levels , strength ties ... toriyama showed that he can’t care less about it , giving the ok to chapter 39 by toyotaro. And I love what I saw and read in previous posts here .. good twist

[Noah]

Dudes who can't read japanese and have seen 10 scans on twitter can somehow put the whole puzzle together.
Every month raw scans come out, fans lose their minds and start pointless anime vs manga fights as if they get paid by toei or toyotaro and then when the chapter comes out, most questions are answered

Fans don't need to know japanese to figure it out that Roshi keeping up with Jiren is a huge BS:

Not much context is needed when you see Roshi dodging Jiren's attacks as clear as day. It makes no sense. I've been saying for months the manga is trash and now that is really coming to light. The writing is God awful.

[SaiyanGod117]

I’m not even mad Roshi is able to fight Jiren surprisingly, I guess since I’ve seen so much of Super’s BS, as a result I’ve become desensitized to it. Admittedly, it does look cool though.

[MoscoSama]

And to think there were some people who thought gohan wasn't even base cabba or final form freeza level lmfaooooo

[Bullza]

Didn't gohan have a bang in BoG in his normal state same way in buu arc?
He doesn't have any bang in this arc so no bang when he powers up

I'm not sure because I think his head was covered by the bandana the entire time. The only time you may have seen his hair was after he became Ultimate.

[Kataphrut]

So many people stuck up for Toyotaro thinking he'd be the saviour of DB power scaling. Turns out he cares about as much as Toriyama does these days (ie hardly at all) and the anime ended up being the more grounded one.

Modern DB has made a lot of little rules changes from the old days to even up fights between differently powered fighters. If you have your guard down, you can be wounded even if you're much stronger (see Goku and Sorbet's laser). Good martial arts training can also give you a boost. That's why Vegeta fared better at fighting Beerus than most of the "unskilled but strong" characters like Gohan, Gotenks and Buu in Battle of Gods. I also take it as the reason why 1st form Freeza was able to beat rusty Gohan in Resurrection F, but Goku could handle his final form in base. So many people tried to justify those feats by talking about rage boosts or god-powered base forms, but the message I took from it was the characters who train regularly have an advantage over the ones who don't. And I'm using examples from the movies rather than Super to show this is stuff established by Toriyama that Super took and ran with. It's not something they made up.

None of this makes Roshi v Jiren any less egregious though. I think that's where you get into overcompensation territory. The way it's gone down, I'm almost certain the brief for the three humans in the tournament was to have Krillin and Tien go out early, with Roshi's good performance being an unexpected surprise. Toyo just adapted that approach in the most extreme manner possible.

[Doctor.]

Toyotaro went all the way and fucked the powerscale to give us the memes through Gohan vs Kefla, and he STILL blueballed us anyway. What a disappointment.

I’m not even mad Roshi is able to fight Jiren surprisingly, I guess since I’ve seen so much of Super’s BS, as a result I’ve become desensitized to it. Admittedly, it does look cool though.

Watch people defend this one.

[MoscoSama]

Gohan trains in gravity room for a year and then with piccolo for a day and becomes strong enough to wreck every non Beerus/Jiren antagonist in DB history. Truly his potential knows no limits

[Miracles]

People are jumping the gun. You are gonna look funny if the text justifies the panels in question.

[MoscoSama]

Also whats up with the kale/kefla downplay?

Kale ragdolled golden freeza and NO , freeza claiming he can take her doesn't mean we take it at face value, she even broke through mssb goku defense. Then powered up and nearly knocked off vegeta and toppo at the same time. Her raw power is definitely above the blue levels

Vados said kefla might be the strongest at the ToP meaning kefla > jiren (what he had shown so far)

[Bergamo]

Toyotaro went all the way and fucked the powerscale to give us the memes through Gohan vs Kefla, and he STILL blueballed us anyway. What a disappointment.

I’m not even mad Roshi is able to fight Jiren surprisingly, I guess since I’ve seen so much of Super’s BS, as a result I’ve become desensitized to it. Admittedly, it does look cool though.

Watch people defend this one.

"Watch people defend this," just means that even if someone presents an arguement then you'll say, "hah, told you." Roshi doesn't actually hit Jiren to the best of my knowledge. He's still not strong enough to do any damage even with UI.

[MoscoSama]

Jiren knocks roshi off the stage and also beat the shit out of ssb goku. He's still the strongest fighter by far in ToP

I agree the roshi scene was dumb and just like i gave the anime shit for the blue goku vs krillin stuff, i'll admit this was wack but its not the end of the world either.

[Doctor.]

Toyotaro went all the way and fucked the powerscale to give us the memes through Gohan vs Kefla, and he STILL blueballed us anyway. What a disappointment.

I’m not even mad Roshi is able to fight Jiren surprisingly, I guess since I’ve seen so much of Super’s BS, as a result I’ve become desensitized to it. Admittedly, it does look cool though.

Watch people defend this one.

"Watch people defend this," just means that even if someone presents an arguement then you'll say, "hah, told you." Roshi doesn't actually hit Jiren to the best of my knowledge. He's still not strong enough to do any damage even with UI.

No, "watch people defend this" means "watch people desperately trying to excuse something that never had any chance of happening in the original series and completely fucks with your suspension of disbelief." Roshi dodges Jiren's blows and forces him to block his attacks; that's enough stupidity.

[JazzMazz]

Toyotaro went all the way and fucked the powerscale to give us the memes through Gohan vs Kefla, and he STILL blueballed us anyway. What a disappointment.


Watch people defend this one.

"Watch people defend this," just means that even if someone presents an arguement then you'll say, "hah, told you." Roshi doesn't actually hit Jiren to the best of my knowledge. He's still not strong enough to do any damage even with UI.

No, "watch people defend this" means "watch people desperately trying to excuse something that never had any chance of happening in the original series and completely fucks with your suspension of disbelief." Roshi dodges Jiren's blows and forces him to block his attacks; that's enough stupidity.

And people were complaining in the anime where Roshi catches Frost off guard for 5 seconds before getting squashed.

This is infinitely stupider. At least for the Frost case in the anime, you could at least say he caught Frost off guard, and still got wrecked.

[Bergamo]

Toyotaro went all the way and fucked the powerscale to give us the memes through Gohan vs Kefla, and he STILL blueballed us anyway. What a disappointment.


Watch people defend this one.

"Watch people defend this," just means that even if someone presents an arguement then you'll say, "hah, told you." Roshi doesn't actually hit Jiren to the best of my knowledge. He's still not strong enough to do any damage even with UI.

No, "watch people defend this" means "watch people desperately trying to excuse something that never had any chance of happening in the original series and completely fucks with your suspension of disbelief." Roshi dodges Jiren's blows and forces him to block his attacks; that's enough stupidity.

1. No one forces Jiren to block their attacks. He literally tanked a SSB kamehameha but then blocks Goku's regular punches. Jiren blocking a punch means nothing.
2. Jiren is definitely not using his full strength.

[Marlowe89]

Watch people defend this one.

Watch people attack a chapter they haven't read yet.

Oh wait.