The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[ZombieVito]

There is no way SSJ Goten and SSJ P.Trunks were stronger than Piccolo in the Buu saga, even after going into the ROSAT. Goten and Trunks were shown to be at best equal to Android 18 in that arc, while Piccolo even before going into the ROSAT and training for 7 years afterwards was equal to Android 17, who is stronger than 18.

No such thing happened. 18 pretty much stomps the kids then they turn Super Saiyan making 18 soil herself and that's it.

The kids are indeed stronger but not my much IMO. Piccolo does surpass them by Super.

[dragon boss z]

There is no way SSJ Goten and SSJ P.Trunks were stronger than Piccolo in the Buu saga, even after going into the ROSAT. Goten and Trunks were shown to be at best equal to Android 18 in that arc, while Piccolo even before going into the ROSAT and training for 7 years afterwards was equal to Android 17, who is stronger than 18.

No such thing happened. 18 pretty much stomps the kids then they turn Super Saiyan making 18 soil herself and that's it.

The kids are indeed stronger but not my much IMO. Piccolo does surpass them by Super.

sweating because you learned 2 kids under 10 pretty much have access to nuclear codes is not the same thing as soiling yourself because they are stronger.

[Hugo Boss]

Speak for yourself.

1. Vegeta was obviously referring to UI Goku, because Vegeta could easily see and react to the punches Jiren threw at SSB Goku in that same episode. Plus, he was able to create a Final Flash stronger than the Spirit Bomb (which itself was stronger than KKx20). So your wrong here again.

Here's Jiren powering up against Goku and Vegeta in 123
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOLwx3sjAyY

2. Hit himself stated that he didn't go all out with base Goku (nor did he hit his vitals like he did to SSB Vegeta). You keep denying that.

I’m not sure how Vegeta dodging Jiren’s punches is a power related thing. Just shows that you aren’t paying attention to what the characters say about his feat. Final flash is above any power Vegeta used until then, but none implies it’s stronger than genkidama.

Quote the line in which Jiren says he will need more power, please. Though, I’m pretty sure Jiren is practically silent all the time. He powered-up because he was annoyed at Goku running away. Funny enough the air current of his simple punch on this level scared the blue out of Goku.

By the way, Hit never said that. On contrary, he said that if Goku kept getting hit on his vital points he would die. It was Goku who said Hit would start to get serious after reading his fighting style.

1. It obviously is a power related thing, since SSBKK Goku couldn't dodge his punches in the hour special, and the fact that in DB speed an strength go together unless explicitly stated otherwise. And the characters do say Vegeta dodging the punches is do to him breaking his limits, aka getting stronger, so its you who wasn't paying attention.

Jiren put more effort into blocking the Final Flash (and his reaction to it was more serious than the U7 Spirit Bomb) and was knocked to the ground, while with the Spirit Bomb he merely glared at it to deflect it and immediately reflected it when he started using his hands. That obviously shows that the Final Flash>>>>>>Spirit Bomb by simple common sense.

2. If Goku and Vegeta weren't any stronger in 123 than they were in the hour special then Jiren wouldn't have powered up to the extent that he did, nor would Goku and Vegeta perform nearly as good as they did against Jiren. Logic 101

The point of this arc is to make people think less about powerlevels and more about moving well and battle sense (for reinforcement, read the last chapter of the manga). Whis even compares Vegeta’s movements to an attempt of reaching Ultra Instinct. Using this event as an example of power feat is a misconception. If Goku did observe Jiren’s movements as Vegeta did, he would be able to do the same thing, regardless of his powerlevel.

I think you forgot that Jiren never tried to fight back the final flash. It went all the way.. and he got up with little to no damage. We don’t even know what would happen if he had taken the genkidama head on. Seems he didn’t risk it.

Likely, Jiren was starting to get annoyed at Goku being able to counter his uber power with intelligence and experience, so he might have used more power to stomp again. Advancing in a particular aspect of martial arts counts as getting stronger in Dragon Ball too, so powering up to respond to that is natural.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

There is no way SSJ Goten and SSJ P.Trunks were stronger than Piccolo in the Buu saga, even after going into the ROSAT. Goten and Trunks were shown to be at best equal to Android 18 in that arc, while Piccolo even before going into the ROSAT and training for 7 years afterwards was equal to Android 17, who is stronger than 18.

You mean in Base, right? Because SSJ Trunks made #18 shit herself with a suppressed blast.

[AvatarReiko]

M12 SSJ Gogeta vs M10 Broly

[dragon boss z]

M12 SSJ Gogeta vs M10 Broly

Gogeta stomps

[ricky84]

M12 SSJ Gogeta vs M10 Broly

Didn't SethTheProgrammer undeniably prove that Z-Broly stomps Z-Gogeta?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NqfSj5Weh4

[sunsetshimmer]

M12 SSJ Gogeta vs M10 Broly

Didn't SethTheProgrammer undeniably prove that Z-Broly stomps Z-Gogeta?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NqfSj5Weh4

Isn't he also the guy known for saying complete bullshit and call it "debunks"?

Gogeta one shots, there is no single reason for him to struggle against Broly.

[Zamasu55]

10 new fights:

1) 10 Cell Jrs (born from Super Perfect Cell instead) vs Basil (base)
2) Final form Freeza (RoF saga) vs Super Ribrianne, Rozie and Kakunsa
3) Hirudegarn (final form) vs Ssj Future Trunks (ep. 57, basically the one who fought against Future Zamasu and SsjR Goku Black)*
4) Pikkon (weightless) vs Katopesla (base)
5) Jiren (ep. 131, basically the wounded one) vs SsjB Goku and SsjB Vegeta (RoF saga)
6) Ssj Gotenks vs Mr. Buu (after training)
7) Kahseral, Cocotte, Kettol and Zoiray vs Koitsukai, Panchia, Bollarator and Viara
Janemba (final form) vs U9's entire team
9) Merged Zamasu (Halo) vs SsjB Goku, SsjB Vegeta, True Golden Freeza, Ultimate Gohan and 17 (basically those who defeated Aniraza)
10) Jiren (can't go full power or limit breaker, just the power he used against Goku, Vegeta and Hit), Toppo (can't go Hakaishin) and Dyspo (can't use his maximum light speed state) vs True Golden Freeza, Hit (ToP, can kill) and SsjR Goku Black (ep. 64, basically the one with the schyte)

*As far as I remember DB Super never forgot Ssj2's unique sparklings, so I think Trunks was only using Ssj against them.

[Myzt0gun]

10 new fights:

1) 10 Cell Jrs (born from Super Perfect Cell instead) vs Basil (base)
2) Final form Freeza (RoF saga) vs Super Ribrianne, Rozie and Kakunsa
3) Hirudegarn (final form) vs Ssj Future Trunks (ep. 57, basically the one who fought against Future Zamasu and SsjR Goku Black)*
4) Pikkon (weightless) vs Katopesla (base)
5) Jiren (ep. 131, basically the wounded one) vs SsjB Goku and SsjB Vegeta (RoF saga)
6) Ssj Gotenks vs Mr. Buu (after training)
7) Kahseral, Cocotte, Kettol and Zoiray vs Koitsukai, Panchia, Bollarator and Viara
Janemba (final form) vs U9's entire team
9) Merged Zamasu (Halo) vs SsjB Goku, SsjB Vegeta, True Golden Freeza, Ultimate Gohan and 17 (basically those who defeated Aniraza)
10) Jiren (can't go full power or limit breaker, just the power he used against Goku, Vegeta and Hit), Toppo (can't go Hakaishin) and Dyspo (can't use his maximum light speed state) vs True Golden Freeza, Hit (ToP, can kill) and SsjR Goku Black (ep. 64, basically the one with the schyte)

*As far as I remember DB Super never forgot Ssj2's unique sparklings, so I think Trunks was only using Ssj against them.

1) Basil mid difficulty, even if Cell jrs from SPC got 2x power they will lose
2) I think Frieza loses but Rozie and Kakunsa will be casualties

3) Hirudegarn high difficulty, trunks pulling a feat like that is just fanservice imo
4) Pikkon low difficulty, cause Katopesla base is even weaker than U10 or U9's weaker members
5) Jiren mid to high difficulty

6) Skinny Buu takes this
7) If Manga versions then Pride Troopers wins, but if Anime versions then robots beats them to a pulp
anime Bergamo (base) alone can beat Janenba, but even if you were talking about Manga Versions then Janenba loses after taking 7-9 members

9) Merged Zamasu (Halo) is immortal right? he loses in fights but he is unkillable
10) Lol Jiren can solo Frieza & Goku Black, Hit defeated by Toppo and Dyspo maybe 1 casualty

[GreatSaiyaman123]

M12 SSJ Gogeta vs M10 Broly

Base Gogeta wrecks.

In handling the scripts for the films, what I always worried about each time was the problem of what to do about the opponent Goku fights against. That’s because, at the very least, they had to be stronger than [the ones from] the previous movie.

SSJ Gogeta >>> Super Janemba >>> Fat Janemba >> M9-11 villians >> Broly.

[dragon boss z]

M12 SSJ Gogeta vs M10 Broly

Didn't SethTheProgrammer undeniably prove that Z-Broly stomps Z-Gogeta?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NqfSj5Weh4

Seth is not a good source of information.

10 new fights:
1) 10 Cell Jrs (born from Super Perfect Cell instead) vs Basil (base)
2) Final form Freeza (RoF saga) vs Super Ribrianne, Rozie and Kakunsa
3) Hirudegarn (final form) vs Ssj Future Trunks (ep. 57, basically the one who fought against Future Zamasu and SsjR Goku Black)*
4) Pikkon (weightless) vs Katopesla (base)
5) Jiren (ep. 131, basically the wounded one) vs SsjB Goku and SsjB Vegeta (RoF saga)
6) Ssj Gotenks vs Mr. Buu (after training)
7) Kahseral, Cocotte, Kettol and Zoiray vs Koitsukai, Panchia, Bollarator and Viara
Janemba (final form) vs U9's entire team
9) Merged Zamasu (Halo) vs SsjB Goku, SsjB Vegeta, True Golden Freeza, Ultimate Gohan and 17 (basically those who defeated Aniraza)
10) Jiren (can't go full power or limit breaker, just the power he used against Goku, Vegeta and Hit), Toppo (can't go Hakaishin) and Dyspo (can't use his maximum light speed state) vs True Golden Freeza, Hit (ToP, can kill) and SsjR Goku Black (ep. 64, basically the one with the schyte)

1) Cell jrs stomp
2) Frieza kills them
3)Trunks should be above ssj3 Goku from that time, so he wins.
4)Pikkon
5)If it's the Jiren that was beating Golden Frieza and 17, he wins. If it's the tired one who was having trouble with final form Frieza and base Goku, he loses.
6)Buu stomps. Fat Buu would be a better fight.
7)Pride troopers
8)Janemba (why is 8 an emoji?)
9)The team can beat him up, but they can't kill him.
10)Pride troopers are carried by Jiren.

[ricky84]

M12 SSJ Gogeta vs M10 Broly

Base Gogeta wrecks.

In handling the scripts for the films, what I always worried about each time was the problem of what to do about the opponent Goku fights against. That’s because, at the very least, they had to be stronger than [the ones from] the previous movie.

SSJ Gogeta >>> Super Janemba >>> Fat Janemba >> M9-11 villians >> Broly.

The same Koyama later clarified that Broly was the strongest character in all of Dragonball before Battle of Gods. That was what was pointed out in Seth's video. Toei also once claimed Janemba was the strongest movie villain (despite being before hirudegarn) but Koyama had them change that.

[ricky84]

M12 SSJ Gogeta vs M10 Broly

Didn't SethTheProgrammer undeniably prove that Z-Broly stomps Z-Gogeta?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NqfSj5Weh4

Isn't he also the guy known for saying complete bullshit and call it "debunks"?

Gogeta one shots, there is no single reason for him to struggle against Broly.

Do you have any counter evidence, or do you just dismiss anything that doesn't fit your biases?

[ZombieVito]

M12 SSJ Gogeta vs M10 Broly

Gogeta defeats Broly the same way he defeated Janemba.

10 new fights:

1) 10 Cell Jrs (born from Super Perfect Cell instead) vs Basil (base)
2) Final form Freeza (RoF saga) vs Super Ribrianne, Rozie and Kakunsa
3) Hirudegarn (final form) vs Ssj Future Trunks (ep. 57, basically the one who fought against Future Zamasu and SsjR Goku Black)*
4) Pikkon (weightless) vs Katopesla (base)
5) Jiren (ep. 131, basically the wounded one) vs SsjB Goku and SsjB Vegeta (RoF saga)
6) Ssj Gotenks vs Mr. Buu (after training)
7) Kahseral, Cocotte, Kettol and Zoiray vs Koitsukai, Panchia, Bollarator and Viara
Janemba (final form) vs U9's entire team
9) Merged Zamasu (Halo) vs SsjB Goku, SsjB Vegeta, True Golden Freeza, Ultimate Gohan and 17 (basically those who defeated Aniraza)
10) Jiren (can't go full power or limit breaker, just the power he used against Goku, Vegeta and Hit), Toppo (can't go Hakaishin) and Dyspo (can't use his maximum light speed state) vs True Golden Freeza, Hit (ToP, can kill) and SsjR Goku Black (ep. 64, basically the one with the schyte)

*As far as I remember DB Super never forgot Ssj2's unique sparklings, so I think Trunks was only using Ssj against them.

Considering that Super Perfect Cell is not even twice as strong as his previous power, Basil should be able to take this with some extreme difficulty. If he can poison them then it becomes easier for him.
Super Rirbrianne is her transformation that has wings right? She stomps.
Even base Trunks stomps.
Katopesla beats him with ease.
Is this the Jiren at the start of the episode of after 17's attack? If it's the later then Goku and Vegeta have this.
Even without training Boo beats him.
This is a good match. I have the U3 robots stronger than all members of team U11 with the exception of Kahseral (Not by much though). If the robots get time to analyze the movements of team U11 they win.
I can't see Janemba win this. The team work of U9 gave Goku and Vegeta trouble and force them to use Super Saiyan.
They all get defeated. If they manage to hurt Zamasu then he will just power up and continue to beat them up. If by a miracle they manage to destroy his body then Zamasu turns infinite and they still lose. This is a hopeless battle. No matter the number of fighters they throw at him, he will still win. Only Zeno can defeat him.
This is also a good match. I can see team B winning if Black traps Jiren with his clones while Hit and Freeza defeat Dyspo and Toppo. Once Jiren gets tired enough all 3 can defeat him.

Very good match ups.

[ricky84]

1. SSG Vegito (ToP) vs Merged Zamasu
2. SSJ4 Baby Vegeta vs Super 17 (GT)
3. Future Trunks/ToP Gohan potara fusion vs Black arc Vegito
4. Android 16 vs SSJ3 Future Gohan
5. SSB Vegeta (ep.122) vs Rose Black (scythe) & Futue Zamasu (no immortality)
6. SSJ3 Goku (BoG) vs Buuhan
7. SSJ3 Goku (ToP no stamina issues) vs SSJ2 Cauifla & SSJ2 Cabba
8. Piccolo (ToP) vs Frost (Champa arc)

[Sora Saiyan]

M12 SSJ Gogeta vs M10 Broly

Gogeta stomps! Broly was slightly fazed by a rusty SSJ2 Gohans strike, yet Gogeta full on tanked a strike from a character many, many times greater than SSJ2 Gohan.

There was also an old Toei website for the DB movies that called Janenba the strongest movie villain, and put Hirudegarn at #2.

[Kataphrut]

1. SSG Vegito (ToP) vs Merged Zamasu
2. SSJ4 Baby Vegeta vs Super 17 (GT)
3. Future Trunks/ToP Gohan potara fusion vs Black arc Vegito
4. Android 16 vs SSJ3 Future Gohan
5. SSB Vegeta (ep.122) vs Rose Black (scythe) & Futue Zamasu (no immortality)
6. SSJ3 Goku (BoG) vs Buuhan
7. SSJ3 Goku (ToP no stamina issues) vs SSJ2 Cauifla & SSJ2 Cabba
8. Piccolo (ToP) vs Frost (Champa arc)

1. Zamasu. Vegetto couldn't beat him before with a stronger form due to time limit, whatever gains Goku and Vegeta make in the ToP probably wouldn't give him enough wellie to win in God. He wouldn't benefit from either of their new forms for a start.
2. I'll give it to Baby. SS4 boost, plus his own power and I feel like he wouldn't be dumb enough to power up Super 17 the way SS4 Goku did.
3. Vegetto. Trunks was eclipsed by Goku and Vegeta in his own arc, and Gohan's ToP gains weren't big enough to put him comfortably at their level either.
4, I can't be bothered to work out the exact maths, but if SS2 present Gohan can beat Perfect Cell, even the weaker Future Gohan should be able to flog 16 in that form, let alone SS3.
5. Vegeta. He'd blow through Zamasu no problem without immortality, and he's had a second round in the time chamber to put him over Black.
6. Is this before or after Goku absorbs the god power? Either way, I'd still give it to Buuhan. My personal scaling puts him and Buu-era Vegetto at SSG/SSB level. It makes more sense than you'd think.
7. Considering SS2 Goku could handle SS2 Caulifla and the much stronger Kale while he was tired, SS3 with no stamina issues would literally school Caulifla and Cabba.
8. Piccolo almost had Frost in the Champa arc and is definitively stronger in the ToP. They finally raised him to SS2 level when the Champa arc seemed to assume he was still SS1 level, judging by how Goku thought he'd be useless against Frost.

[Zamasu55]

1. SSG Vegito (ToP) vs Merged Zamasu
2. SSJ4 Baby Vegeta vs Super 17 (GT)
3. Future Trunks/ToP Gohan potara fusion vs Black arc Vegito
4. Android 16 vs SSJ3 Future Gohan
5. SSB Vegeta (ep.122) vs Rose Black (scythe) & Futue Zamasu (no immortality)
6. SSJ3 Goku (BoG) vs Buuhan
7. SSJ3 Goku (ToP no stamina issues) vs SSJ2 Cauifla & SSJ2 Cabba
8. Piccolo (ToP) vs Frost (Champa arc)

- Merged Zamasu easily.
- Baby would be stronger, but if Super 17 absorbs enough energy he can take it.
- Pass.
- I don't think Gohan would catch up to him. 16 was much stronger than 17 and 18 while Ssj Future Gohan lost to weaker versions ofthose two.
- Vegeta stomps.
- Buuhan stomps.
- There's no need for that, Ssj2 Goku can beat them without issues.
- Piccolo. I mean he was already beating Frost when he was much weaker. He only lost because Frost cheated.

[ricky84]

1. Omen Vegito (ToP) vs SSB Kefla (Post-ToP)
2. SSB Vegeta (ep.122) vs Hit (ToP)
3. All of U2 vs Aniraza
4. Full Power Dyspo vs Black Rose (scythe)
5. Omen Black (Scythe) vs Merged Zamasu (Post-Black arc zenkai, no immortality)
6. SSJ4 Goku & SSJ4 Vegeta (Both Buu arc) vs SSJ1 Vegito (Buu arc)
7. SSJ2 Vegeta (GT) vs Metal Rildo
8. Base Vegito (Buu arc) vs SSJ3 Goku (start of BoG) and SSJ2 Vegeta (Bulma slapped)

And how strong do you think SSB Caulifa and SSB Cabba would be? Who from what part of Super would they compare to?