Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

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Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by precita » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:31 pm

After Roshi watched Radditz knock out Goku and Krillin in one blow, and then find out two stronger Saiyans were coming, why didn't Roshi join Krillin/Yamcha/Tenshinhan/Chioatzu/Yajirobe on Kami's lookout and train and prepare for the Saiyans?

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:42 pm

Because he knew they'd bring Goku back, and Piccolo was training Gohan.

To be frank, I would have liked to see more of him fighting aliens, back in the Saiyan saga at least.
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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:44 pm

Muten Roshi is too old and he'd be dead in an instant. The Pokémon that belongs to Tenshinhan committed suicide, but that was in vain although to be fair, Yamucha's fate wasn't much better either. :P Yamucha, Ten, Chaozu, Kuririn, Yajirobe hardly offered any real value to the team other than Yajirobe being actually useful slicing that jamón from Vegeta and Yamucha, Ten, Chaozu and Kuririn being filler fighters till Son would arrive.

You know, Piccolo (he's after all part of Piccolo Daimao) at least managed to stand a chance until Nappa sent him to the other world.

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by Ssjcell » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:53 pm

He knew he would get killed...

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by ABED » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:06 pm

Because he was WELL past his prime and would not have been able to help even if he did train. That's one of the reasons Muten Roshi's renewed relevance bugs me.
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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by KBABZ » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:12 am

Roshi felt he was outclassed, to a much higher degree than Raditz where even magic like the Mafuba wouldn't be able to overcome such villains. It was easier to let the younger generation train up as they would be much more effective and wouldn't break their bodies in the fight like Roshi might at his age. As he said in the Kai FUNi dub, they would more likely just get in the way than actually have a meaningful contribution.

This of course ignores the fact that Roshi hasn't aged since we've seen him and should have logically kicked the bucket ages ago...

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by ABED » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:33 am

He's not getting any older, but he's not young either.
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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by KBABZ » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:39 am

ABED wrote:He's not getting any older, but he's not young either.
Sometimes I wonder if he really did drink from the Fountain of Youth. Or is that just a Dub/ViZ thing?

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by Cipher » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:03 am

Because he'd decided he was at his peak and that the next generation would carry on the mantle back in the Piccolo arc, and the modern material bringing him back into the action and handing him substantial power-ups isn't remotely in sync with his presentation in the original run.

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by sintzu » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:45 am

Because he had unofficially retired after fighting Tien all the way back during the 22nd Tenkaichi. When he tried to fight King Piccolo he couldn't and had to rely on sealing him up which resulted in his death so at that point all he could do was leave things up to Goku and friends.
ABED wrote:That's one of the reasons Muten Roshi's renewed relevance bugs me.
Same here. Despite it being nice to see a fan favorite get relevant screen time again, it goes against everything that's been previously established and makes no sense whatsoever.
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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:16 am

ABED wrote:He's not getting any older, but he's not young either.
You could say the same for Son and Vegeta, but Gohan's getting older. It's not the Saiyan race DNA because if it was that, King Vegeta wouldn't grow old as he was shown in flashbacks with beard and all.

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:21 am

ABED wrote:Because he was WELL past his prime and would not have been able to help even if he did train. That's one of the reasons Muten Roshi's renewed relevance bugs me.
His renewed relevance is precisely why him not helping out in the battle against the Saiyans has retroactively become a problem. At this point, are we just supposed to assume that he was simply too lazy to prepare for the Saiyans?

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by ABED » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:37 am

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
ABED wrote:He's not getting any older, but he's not young either.
You could say the same for Son and Vegeta, but Gohan's getting older. It's not the Saiyan race DNA because if it was that, King Vegeta wouldn't grow old as he was shown in flashbacks with beard and all.
You can't say that because the collective age of Goku and his friends is still younger than Muten Roshi. I'm exaggerating a little, but not by much. Goku and Vegeta are still in their prime and getting far stronger all the time. You're overthinking this. King Vegeta had a Van Dyke. I don't see how that has anything to do with his age.

Just on a thematic level, Muten Roshi becoming a fighter makes zero sense. Stepping out of the ring during the 22nd TB was a perfect ending to his character arc.
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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by KBABZ » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:59 am

ABED wrote:Just on a thematic level, Muten Roshi becoming a fighter makes zero sense. Stepping out of the ring during the 22nd TB was a perfect ending to his character arc.
Roshi's first thought when Oolong described the leaflet with "ma" on it: "Dammit I JUST retired!"

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by TheMikado » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:12 pm

Cipher wrote:Because he'd decided he was at his peak and that the next generation would carry on the mantle back in the Piccolo arc, and the modern material bringing him back into the action and handing him substantial power-ups isn't remotely in sync with his presentation in the original run.
Exactly, “New” Dragonball has been awful for its lore breaking. Bringing the Mafuba back has been the absolute worst example of this especially with the way it’s been overused in the fight sequences.

We all just assumed enemies our grew the technique and that they would need to overcome them in raw power.
It’s makes us question why they didn’t just use this for the Saiyans or Frieza or the Androids or Cell or Buu or any other threat they faced especially when they literally sometimes had YEARS of training and prep time!

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by Majin Jator » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:10 pm

WittyUsername wrote: His renewed relevance is precisely why him not helping out in the battle against the Saiyans has retroactively become a problem. At this point, are we just supposed to assume that he was simply too lazy to prepare for the Saiyans?


Raditz and all the later antagonists could have killed Roshi with one punch, while the ToP was a tournament where killing was forbidden. Don't get me wrong, his inclusion made little sense (not saying it wasn't enjoyable), but I don't believe it created a problem retroactively.

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:21 pm

Toriyana and Kondo were finished with the character at the time. Now Toriyama feels like playing with him. That's all there is to it.
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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by Dr. Casey » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:24 pm

KBABZ wrote:
ABED wrote:He's not getting any older, but he's not young either.
Sometimes I wonder if he really did drink from the Fountain of Youth. Or is that just a Dub/ViZ thing?
Nah, it's a Wuxia trope that Kunzait goes into at one point during his thread: the experienced martial artist who has obtained such mastery over his body that he can slow down the aging process to a great extent. In the Japanese version he mentions drinking the Elixir of Immortality, which was localized as the Fountain of Youth in the English version (although the Fountain of Youth was a completely different thing that was supposed to restore one's youth rather than simply protect them from further aging, so this is arguably a bit of overlocalizing), but he says later on in the series that he just made that up and that the Elixir of Immortality doesn't exist. Kind of a convoluted answer, sorry. :P
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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by Kuwabara » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:17 pm

I think defending the universe from the strongest warriors of every other universe, on short notice, is a lot more pressing than defending Earth from two relative nobodies with a year's worth of prep time.

Not only that, but I also like the implication that Roshi was training all that time instead of just accepting his role as a dour old man with nothing to offer to the world, his pupils, and fellow martial artists.
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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by KBABZ » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:44 pm

Dr. Casey wrote:
KBABZ wrote:
ABED wrote:He's not getting any older, but he's not young either.
Sometimes I wonder if he really did drink from the Fountain of Youth. Or is that just a Dub/ViZ thing?
Nah, it's a Wuxia trope that Kunzait goes into at one point during his thread: the experienced martial artist who has obtained such mastery over his body that he can slow down the aging process to a great extent. In the Japanese version he mentions drinking the Elixir of Immortality, which was localized as the Fountain of Youth in the English version (although the Fountain of Youth was a completely different thing that was supposed to restore one's youth rather than simply protect them from further aging, so this is arguably a bit of overlocalizing), but he says later on in the series that he just made that up and that the Elixir of Immortality doesn't exist. Kind of a convoluted answer, sorry. :P
No it's fine! This is exactly the type of answer I was looking for.
Kuwabara wrote:I think defending the universe from the strongest warriors of every other universe, on short notice, is a lot more pressing than defending Earth from two relative nobodies with a year's worth of prep time.
I mean they were nobodies in the grand scheme of things, but to our heroes they were the greatest threats they had ever faced by an incredibly wide margin and were more than capable of wiping out everything on the planet.

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