The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[ZombieVito]

1. SSBKK Goku was portrayed as equal to Base Toppo in that fight. Vegeta's performance wouldn't have been possible if he wasn't stronger (that's how DB works). Other characters commented mainly on the strength of Vegeta during ep.122. And the Final Flash was obviously stronger than the Spirit Bomb, since Jiren merely glared at the SB to deflect it and immediately reflected it with no effort when he used his hands and called it rubbish, while with the FF he felt the need to seriously block it at the last second, was knocked to the ground and complimented the attack afterward. All of this points to Final Flash>Spirit Bomb and SSB Vegeta > SSB Goku at the time.

2. Golden Freeza and SSB Goku being equals at the start of the ToP actually goes against the idea of either them being the strongest of the team, since both SSB Vegeta and A17 are beyond them in feats. There is not a single feat nor statement in the show itself that puts G.Freeza above SSB Vegeta or A17, nor was it ever said in the anime that SSB Goku>SSB Vegeta at any point. In fact, Goku himself said in e.94 or e.95 that if Freeza acts up, him or Vegeta would just kill him again, suggesting SSB Vegeta > Golden Freeza.

3. Dyspo even in base is not weak at all. He was able to tank and trade hits with SSG Goku and Hit without much issue in just his base, and in his Light Speed Mode was able to tank & trade hits with Golden Freeza and Gohan simultaneously. He wasn't overpowered when throwing hands with Golden Freeza, but was with fighting Gohan, suggesting that Gohan>Dsypo=Freeza by that point. And don't even get me started on Freeza vs Kale in the manga.

If Freeza was really all that compared to the rest of U7, then you would expect that he'd get a better showing than what he got in the ToP. There is not a single instance of him dominating or even matching a fighter that's SSG level or above all by himself in the ToP.

1.- No. That's your speculation. They never fought. Vegeta performance was explained, please watch the episode again. Jiren having to reflect the Genkidama does say to me that it was way stronger than the Final Flash that he let hit him.

2.- Please watch the arc again. When Goku said that he didn't know Freeza got much stronger in hell. Whis flat out tells Beerus Golden Freeza = Blue Goku.

3.- He is weak. Once Freeza caught him with his tail he was trashed. His Light Speed mode was never said to make him stronger. I don't think you know the meaning of tanking.

[Puaru]

Anime Gohan would lose all of them though.

It's the same Gohan as in the manga. Gohan just came of as weak in the anime because the writers were dumbasses who never gave him a moment to face up against any strong opponent. Instead he came of as weak because he was stuck fighting nobodys like the namekians and Dyspo.

I will be the first to admit that I've said some things about Gohan in the past based on his performance in the anime, but all of that is irrelevant now when the manga has showed us that Gohan is indeed strong and that the only reason we thought he was a weak piece of garbage before was because the idiots who wrote the anime never gave him a chance to show of his strenght.

Gohan is strong again thanks to the manga and we should try to forget that the anime once made us all believe that Gohan was shit, because he is in fact strong.

[ricky84]

1. SSBKK Goku was portrayed as equal to Base Toppo in that fight. Vegeta's performance wouldn't have been possible if he wasn't stronger (that's how DB works). Other characters commented mainly on the strength of Vegeta during ep.122. And the Final Flash was obviously stronger than the Spirit Bomb, since Jiren merely glared at the SB to deflect it and immediately reflected it with no effort when he used his hands and called it rubbish, while with the FF he felt the need to seriously block it at the last second, was knocked to the ground and complimented the attack afterward. All of this points to Final Flash>Spirit Bomb and SSB Vegeta > SSB Goku at the time.

2. Golden Freeza and SSB Goku being equals at the start of the ToP actually goes against the idea of either them being the strongest of the team, since both SSB Vegeta and A17 are beyond them in feats. There is not a single feat nor statement in the show itself that puts G.Freeza above SSB Vegeta or A17, nor was it ever said in the anime that SSB Goku>SSB Vegeta at any point. In fact, Goku himself said in e.94 or e.95 that if Freeza acts up, him or Vegeta would just kill him again, suggesting SSB Vegeta > Golden Freeza.

3. Dyspo even in base is not weak at all. He was able to tank and trade hits with SSG Goku and Hit without much issue in just his base, and in his Light Speed Mode was able to tank & trade hits with Golden Freeza and Gohan simultaneously. He wasn't overpowered when throwing hands with Golden Freeza, but was with fighting Gohan, suggesting that Gohan>Dsypo=Freeza by that point. And don't even get me started on Freeza vs Kale in the manga.

If Freeza was really all that compared to the rest of U7, then you would expect that he'd get a better showing than what he got in the ToP. There is not a single instance of him dominating or even matching a fighter that's SSG level or above all by himself in the ToP.

1.- No. That's your speculation. They never fought. Vegeta performance was explained, please watch the episode again. Jiren having to reflect the Genkidama does say to me that it was way stronger than the Final Flash that he let hit him.

2.- Please watch the arc again. When Goku said that he didn't know Freeza got much stronger in hell. Whis flat out tells Beerus Golden Freeza = Blue Goku.

3.- He is weak. Once Freeza caught him with his tail he was trashed. His Light Speed mode was never said to make him stronger. I don't think you know the meaning of tanking.

1. I spoke direct facts, no headcanon. You are being in denial bro.

Vegeta's performance was said to be due to his growing power, there is no other way he could have done better than KKx20 like he did. The fact that Jiren literally glared the Spirit Bomb away with zero effort shows that it was much weaker than the Final Flash, which Jiren blocked with both hands yet still got knocked to the ground (that was the first time anyone without UI was able to hit Jiren like that in the while arc).

2. "When Goku said that he didn't know Freeza got much stronger in hell.". "Whis flat out tells Beerus Golden Freeza = Blue Goku"

Neither of which support the idea of Freeza being #2 of the group. They actually work against it.

3. "Once Freeza caught him with his tail he was trashed"

Wrong lol. Once Freeza caught him with his tail Dsypo started throwing him around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3joRteBVDQ

His Light Speed Mode does increase his raw power. There's no way he would have been able to damage and challege both U.Gohan and G.Freeza if it didn't, since base Dyspo is weaker than SSG Goku (and both Gohan and Freeza are better than that).

The fact that base dyspo took all those hits from Hit, SSG Goku and even SSB Goku without much damage shoes that he did tank them well.

[ZombieVito]

1. I spoke direct facts, no headcanon. You are being in denial bro.

Vegeta's performance was said to be due to his growing power, there is no other way he could have done better than KKx20 like he did. The fact that Jiren literally glared the Spirit Bomb away with zero effort shows that it was much weaker than the Final Flash, which Jiren blocked with both hands yet still got knocked to the ground (that was the first time anyone without UI was able to hit Jiren like that in the while arc).

2. "When Goku said that he didn't know Freeza got much stronger in hell.". "Whis flat out tells Beerus Golden Freeza = Blue Goku"

Neither of which support the idea of Freeza being #2 of the group. They actually work against it.

3. "Once Freeza caught him with his tail he was trashed"

Wrong lol. Once Freeza caught him with his tail Dsypo started throwing him around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3joRteBVDQ

His Light Speed Mode does increase his raw power. There's no way he would have been able to damage and challege both U.Gohan and G.Freeza if it didn't, since base Dyspo is weaker than SSG Goku (and both Gohan and Freeza are better than that).

The fact that base dyspo took all those hits from Hit, SSG Goku and even SSB Goku without much damage shoes that he did tank them well.

1.- No. I don't remember who it was but someone that worked on Super confirmed on Twitter that Vegeta's Evolution was equal to Goku's Kaioken Blue (most likely 20) so Vegeta with regular Blue can't be stronger than Kaioken 20 Blue Goku. Sorry.

2.- What part of Golden Freeza and Blue Goku are equals you don't understand? Vegeta, Gohan and 17 are not stronger than Blue Goku. Period.

3.- Show me the statement that says it increased his power too. And no, in E124 Freeza even grabs his arm with his tail and actually hurts him and sits him on his ass. Dyspo doesn't even hurt Freeza in that clip you posted.

[ricky84]

Turles (prime) vs 2nd Form Freeza
A18 (ToP) vs Magetta
Base Caulifla vs Frost
Super Perfect Cell (kkx10) vs Fat Buu
Shin vs SSJ1 Goku (Cell Games)
SSJ1 Vegeta (Cell Games) vs Piccolo (Buu Saga)
SSG Goku (ToP) vs SSB Vegeta (RoF)
Base Black (just before using Rose for the 1st Time) vs SSG Goku (Champa arc)

[GreatSaiyaman123]

In light of what Gohan accomplished in the manga, I would like to ask:

ToP Gohan vs 17.

Top Gohan vs Golden Freeza.

ToP Gohan vs SSB Goku (no kaioken).

ToP Gohan vs SSR Trunks (minus spirit sword).

Gohan solos without much trouble, except for the last round.

[ricky84]

1. I spoke direct facts, no headcanon. You are being in denial bro.

Vegeta's performance was said to be due to his growing power, there is no other way he could have done better than KKx20 like he did. The fact that Jiren literally glared the Spirit Bomb away with zero effort shows that it was much weaker than the Final Flash, which Jiren blocked with both hands yet still got knocked to the ground (that was the first time anyone without UI was able to hit Jiren like that in the while arc).

2. "When Goku said that he didn't know Freeza got much stronger in hell.". "Whis flat out tells Beerus Golden Freeza = Blue Goku"

Neither of which support the idea of Freeza being #2 of the group. They actually work against it.

3. "Once Freeza caught him with his tail he was trashed"

Wrong lol. Once Freeza caught him with his tail Dsypo started throwing him around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3joRteBVDQ

His Light Speed Mode does increase his raw power. There's no way he would have been able to damage and challege both U.Gohan and G.Freeza if it didn't, since base Dyspo is weaker than SSG Goku (and both Gohan and Freeza are better than that).

The fact that base dyspo took all those hits from Hit, SSG Goku and even SSB Goku without much damage shoes that he did tank them well.

1.- No. I don't remember who it was but someone that worked on Super confirmed on Twitter that Vegeta's Evolution was equal to Goku's Kaioken Blue (most likely 20) so Vegeta with regular Blue can't be stronger than Kaioken 20 Blue Goku. Sorry.

2.- What part of Golden Freeza and Blue Goku are equals you don't understand? Vegeta, Gohan and 17 are not stronger than Blue Goku. Period.

3.- Show me the statement that says it increased his power too. And no, in E124 Freeza even grabs his arm with his tail and actually hurts him and sits him on his ass. Dyspo doesn't even hurt Freeza in that clip you posted.

1. You are forgetting that KKx20 from the hour special and KKx20 since ep.123 are in completely different leagues of power. Both SSBE Vegeta and KKx20 Goku in ep.123 surpassed the 1st UI Omen in power, since Jiren had to pull out much more of his full power to fight against them than he did against the 1st Omen from ep.110. So SSBE Vegeta is obviously way stronger than KKx20 Goku from ep.109 (not the current version Post-ToP).

2. You gave zero evidence of Golden Freeza being better than either of them, even Gohan. Your just repeating the same claims over and over.

3. Here's LS Dyspo trading with True Golden Freeza: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8x4cV0ff6o

Now here's him doing the same with Gohan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb-u2889fC0

See the difference?

[PFM18]

Anime Gohan would lose all of them though.

It's the same Gohan as in the manga. Gohan just came of as weak in the anime because the writers were dumbasses who never gave him a moment to face up against any strong opponent. Instead he came of as weak because he was stuck fighting nobodys like the namekians and Dyspo.

I will be the first to admit that I've said some things about Gohan in the past based on his performance in the anime, but all of that is irrelevant now when the manga has showed us that Gohan is indeed strong and that the only reason we thought he was a weak piece of garbage before was because the idiots who wrote the anime never gave him a chance to show of his strenght.

Gohan is strong again thanks to the manga and we should try to forget that the anime once made us all believe that Gohan was shit, because he is in fact strong.

No it really isn't the same Gohan. Gohan in the anime is distinctly below SSB tier, even though he is close, and the anime equivalent of CSSB is SSBKK which one shot Gohan and was clearly superior to Base Toppo, Dyspo, Koichirator or anybody else who Gohan had trouble with. Gohan was overpowered by Base Toppo who is nothing to Kefla and in the manga he is equal to Kefla. Gohan was never shown to ever at any point be as strong or stronger than a SSB in the anime and in the manga it certainly appeared that:(disregarding contradictory ridiculous manga statements)

Gohan=Kefla>>Kale~MSSB Goku

Where as the anime:

2nd UI Omen~SSJ2 Kefla>SSJ Kefla~SSBKKx20>>>SSB Goku~Base Toppo~SSB Vegeta>Ultimate Gohan

Gohan is dramaticallly stronger in his manga iteration than his anime iteration and that much is abundantly clear. And frankly, I think the anime version of Gohan's strength made way more sense in the first place

[Puaru]

It's the same Gohan as in the manga. Gohan just came of as weak in the anime because the writers were dumbasses who never gave him a moment to face up against any strong opponent. Instead he came of as weak because he was stuck fighting nobodys like the namekians and Dyspo.

I will be the first to admit that I've said some things about Gohan in the past based on his performance in the anime, but all of that is irrelevant now when the manga has showed us that Gohan is indeed strong and that the only reason we thought he was a weak piece of garbage before was because the idiots who wrote the anime never gave him a chance to show of his strenght.

Gohan is strong again thanks to the manga and we should try to forget that the anime once made us all believe that Gohan was shit, because he is in fact strong.

No it really isn't the same Gohan. Gohan in the anime is distinctly below SSB tier, even though he is close, and the anime equivalent of CSSB is SSBKK which one shot Gohan and was clearly superior to Base Toppo, Dyspo, Koichirator or anybody else who Gohan had trouble with. Gohan was overpowered by Base Toppo who is nothing to Kefla and in the manga he is equal to Kefla. Gohan was never shown to ever at any point be as strong or stronger than a SSB in the anime and in the manga it certainly appeared that:(disregarding contradictory ridiculous manga statements)

Gohan=Kefla>>Kale~MSSB Goku

Where as the anime:

2nd UI Omen~SSJ2 Kefla>SSJ Kefla~SSBKKx20>>>SSB Goku~Base Toppo~SSB Vegeta>Ultimate Gohan

Gohan is dramaticallly stronger in his manga iteration than his anime iteration and that much is abundantly clear. And frankly, I think the anime version of Gohan's strength made way more sense in the first place

Why does Gohans strenght in the anime makes sense when he wasnt even as strong as Future Trunks or 17? Future Trunks reached SSB level just by getting angry, so why wouldt Gohan be able to be stronger than that when he has more potential than Trunks? And 17 reacched SSB level just by training on some island and having sex with animals.
If other characters can get to god level even without god ki then so should Gohan. Tru ks and 17 are lame and gay compared to Gohan who has more potential.

[Sora Saiyan]

It's the same Gohan as in the manga. Gohan just came of as weak in the anime because the writers were dumbasses who never gave him a moment to face up against any strong opponent. Instead he came of as weak because he was stuck fighting nobodys like the namekians and Dyspo.

I will be the first to admit that I've said some things about Gohan in the past based on his performance in the anime, but all of that is irrelevant now when the manga has showed us that Gohan is indeed strong and that the only reason we thought he was a weak piece of garbage before was because the idiots who wrote the anime never gave him a chance to show of his strenght.

Gohan is strong again thanks to the manga and we should try to forget that the anime once made us all believe that Gohan was shit, because he is in fact strong.

No it really isn't the same Gohan. Gohan in the anime is distinctly below SSB tier, even though he is close, and the anime equivalent of CSSB is SSBKK which one shot Gohan and was clearly superior to Base Toppo, Dyspo, Koichirator or anybody else who Gohan had trouble with. Gohan was overpowered by Base Toppo who is nothing to Kefla and in the manga he is equal to Kefla. Gohan was never shown to ever at any point be as strong or stronger than a SSB in the anime and in the manga it certainly appeared that:(disregarding contradictory ridiculous manga statements)

Gohan=Kefla>>Kale~MSSB Goku

Where as the anime:

2nd UI Omen~SSJ2 Kefla>SSJ Kefla~SSBKKx20>>>SSB Goku~Base Toppo~SSB Vegeta>Ultimate Gohan

Gohan is dramaticallly stronger in his manga iteration than his anime iteration and that much is abundantly clear. And frankly, I think the anime version of Gohan's strength made way more sense in the first place

For some reason Gohan is still below Blue in the manga, as stated by the peanut gallery. It’s obvious that Kale being injured had a bad effect on Keflas power as Vegetto had to eat a senzu upon fusing in the manga, but Vados’ statement the previous chapter makes her gauging of fighters seem pretty awful. I know her statements weren’t being definitive, but I’d still expect more of an angel.

Gohans strength is still up in the air, as for now all we know is that he’s below Blue by an unknown amount. It was good to find out in the bonus chapter that he’s been training since the Zamasu arc, but this degree of strength doesn’t gel well with the manga, that really tried to enforce SSJG being something insane in comparison to the other forms.

I’m curious as to why Gohans power makes way more sense in the anime when taking the bonus chapter into account? With all the gains Goku and Vegeta have made in the anime, Gohan (anime) would probably be around the level of the blue forms in the manga anyway. There’s been drastic power increases for anime Goku and Vegeta, where as in the manga they’ve probably only increased there power by a couple of times.

Btw in the manga the characters currently stand at.
CSSJB > weakened Kefla >=< Kale >=< Gohan... it’s a total mess, but all we know for now is Goku’s top, unless FP Kale is a decent amount more powerful than weakened Kefla, which is very possible. Either way, FP Kefla would definitely be above Blue Goku by a decent amount, and Kale being incapacitated upon fusing did Kefla no favours.

This is me speaking in general now, so honestly this isn’t an attack. I just wanted to say that I wish a lot the biased manga vs anime comments, threads and whatever else I’ve seen would could come to an end, and we could try to use reasoning to work out what’s happening in both, because it isn’t too hard to do in either. Sometimes you come across a mess where you really need to reach to make heads or tails of it, but neither are as bad as I’ve heard some people say.
I’ve noticed there’s a lot of people that will just dismiss the one which they don’t favour, and its just causing too much division. I actually now have them both on a similar level to one another, which to me means they could both do with improving, but neither are total garbage.

[ricky84]

It should be noted that there is no evidence that the manga's CSSB = anime's SSBKKx20. The multiplier for SSB in the manga (SSGx5) is notably lower than in the anime (at least SSGx50, likely higher due to the Kefla fight in the anime). CSSB in the manga seems to be at best only as strong as normal SSB from the anime.

[PFM18]

It's the same Gohan as in the manga. Gohan just came of as weak in the anime because the writers were dumbasses who never gave him a moment to face up against any strong opponent. Instead he came of as weak because he was stuck fighting nobodys like the namekians and Dyspo.

I will be the first to admit that I've said some things about Gohan in the past based on his performance in the anime, but all of that is irrelevant now when the manga has showed us that Gohan is indeed strong and that the only reason we thought he was a weak piece of garbage before was because the idiots who wrote the anime never gave him a chance to show of his strenght.

Gohan is strong again thanks to the manga and we should try to forget that the anime once made us all believe that Gohan was shit, because he is in fact strong.

No it really isn't the same Gohan. Gohan in the anime is distinctly below SSB tier, even though he is close, and the anime equivalent of CSSB is SSBKK which one shot Gohan and was clearly superior to Base Toppo, Dyspo, Koichirator or anybody else who Gohan had trouble with. Gohan was overpowered by Base Toppo who is nothing to Kefla and in the manga he is equal to Kefla. Gohan was never shown to ever at any point be as strong or stronger than a SSB in the anime and in the manga it certainly appeared that:(disregarding contradictory ridiculous manga statements)

Gohan=Kefla>>Kale~MSSB Goku

Where as the anime:

2nd UI Omen~SSJ2 Kefla>SSJ Kefla~SSBKKx20>>>SSB Goku~Base Toppo~SSB Vegeta>Ultimate Gohan

Gohan is dramaticallly stronger in his manga iteration than his anime iteration and that much is abundantly clear. And frankly, I think the anime version of Gohan's strength made way more sense in the first place

Why does Gohans strenght in the anime makes sense when he wasnt even as strong as Future Trunks or 17? Future Trunks reached SSB level just by getting angry, so why wouldt Gohan be able to be stronger than that when he has more potential than Trunks? And 17 reacched SSB level just by training on some island and having sex with animals.
If other characters can get to god level even without god ki then so should Gohan. Tru ks and 17 are lame and gay compared to Gohan who has more potential.

The difference is that 17 and Future Trunks had been training for the previous 14 years. Gohan has been picking his nose for the last 14 years. Even him being close to SSB tier is stretching the logic that was previously established.

The fact that manga Gohan is strong enough to tie with Kefla is an abomination and makes 0 sense

It should be noted that there is no evidence that the manga's CSSB = anime's SSBKKx20. The multiplier for SSB in the manga (SSGx5) is notably lower than in the anime (at least SSGx50, likely higher due to the Kefla fight in the anime). CSSB in the manga seems to be at best only as strong as normal SSB from the anime.

Your logic ignores the fact that CSSB>>>SSB

[Zamasu55]

10 new fights:

1) Ssj Vegeta (ToP) vs Present Zamasu
2) Beerus's Supernova (BoG arc) vs SsjB KKx20 Goku's Genkidama (ep. 110)
3) Copy Vegeta (base) vs Goku Black (base, ep. 56)
4) Goten (Buu saga, base) vs 13 and 14
5) U10's team (without Obuni) vs Z fighters (Cell Games, Gohan can't turn Ssj2)
6) Piccolo (Cell Games) vs Super Android 13
7) Beerus (in Monaka's costume) vs Ultimate Gohan (ToP)
Napapa vs Base Gohan (start of ToP arc)
9) Bardock's crew vs Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, Tienshinhan, Chaotzu and Yamcha (Saiyans saga)
10) Salza, Dore and Neiz vs Krillin, Yamcha and Tienshinhan (Buu saga)

[RecolorSaiyan]

10 new fights:

1) Ssj Vegeta (ToP) vs Present Zamasu
2) Beerus's Supernova (BoG arc) vs SsjB KKx20 Goku's Genkidama (ep. 110)
3) Copy Vegeta (base) vs Goku Black (base, ep. 56)
4) Goten (Buu saga, base) vs 13 and 14
5) U10's team (without Obuni) vs Z fighters (Cell Games, Gohan can't turn Ssj2)
6) Piccolo (Cell Games) vs Super Android 13
7) Beerus (in Monaka's costume) vs Ultimate Gohan (ToP)
Napapa vs Base Gohan (start of ToP arc)
9) Bardock's crew vs Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, Tienshinhan, Chaotzu and Yamcha (Saiyans saga)
10) Salza, Dore and Neiz vs Krillin, Yamcha and Tienshinhan (Buu saga)

Vegeta easily
Genkidama
Base Black wrecks
Goten
u10 team
super android 13
Gohan since beerus was only using the power to match base goku
Napapa, he did decently vs ssj caulifla iirc
Z fighters
Z fighters

[ZombieVito]

1. You are forgetting that KKx20 from the hour special and KKx20 since ep.123 are in completely different leagues of power. Both SSBE Vegeta and KKx20 Goku in ep.123 surpassed the 1st UI Omen in power, since Jiren had to pull out much more of his full power to fight against them than he did against the 1st Omen from ep.110. So SSBE Vegeta is obviously way stronger than KKx20 Goku from ep.109 (not the current version Post-ToP).

2. You gave zero evidence of Golden Freeza being better than either of them, even Gohan. Your just repeating the same claims over and over.

3. Here's LS Dyspo trading with True Golden Freeza: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8x4cV0ff6o

Now here's him doing the same with Gohan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb-u2889fC0

See the difference?

1.- Please watch the episodes again. It is explained why Vegeta and Goku can give Jiren a fight in E123.

2.- You are just being obtuse now. Whis saying they are equal is enough evidence since Vegeta, Gohan and 17 are not stronger than Goku Blue so Freeza who is equal to Goku is stronger than that trio.

3.- Yes. Gohan can do that because of the cage restricting Dyspo's movements...

Do you actually listen what the characters say in the episodes?

[PFM18]

1. You are forgetting that KKx20 from the hour special and KKx20 since ep.123 are in completely different leagues of power. Both SSBE Vegeta and KKx20 Goku in ep.123 surpassed the 1st UI Omen in power, since Jiren had to pull out much more of his full power to fight against them than he did against the 1st Omen from ep.110. So SSBE Vegeta is obviously way stronger than KKx20 Goku from ep.109 (not the current version Post-ToP).

2. You gave zero evidence of Golden Freeza being better than either of them, even Gohan. Your just repeating the same claims over and over.

3. Here's LS Dyspo trading with True Golden Freeza: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8x4cV0ff6o

Now here's him doing the same with Gohan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb-u2889fC0

See the difference?

1.- Please watch the episodes again. It is explained why Vegeta and Goku can give Jiren a fight in E123.

2.- You are just being obtuse now. Whis saying they are equal is enough evidence since Vegeta, Gohan and 17 are not stronger than Goku Blue so Freeza who is equal to Goku is stronger than that trio.

3.- Yes. Gohan can do that because of the cage restricting Dyspo's movements...

Do you actually listen what the characters say in the episodes?

I agree 100%

[GreatSaiyaman123]

10 new fights:

1) Ssj Vegeta (ToP) vs Present Zamasu
2) Beerus's Supernova (BoG arc) vs SsjB KKx20 Goku's Genkidama (ep. 110)
3) Copy Vegeta (base) vs Goku Black (base, ep. 56)
4) Goten (Buu saga, base) vs 13 and 14
5) U10's team (without Obuni) vs Z fighters (Cell Games, Gohan can't turn Ssj2)
6) Piccolo (Cell Games) vs Super Android 13
7) Beerus (in Monaka's costume) vs Ultimate Gohan (ToP)
Napapa vs Base Gohan (start of ToP arc)
9) Bardock's crew vs Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, Tienshinhan, Chaotzu and Yamcha (Saiyans saga)
10) Salza, Dore and Neiz vs Krillin, Yamcha and Tienshinhan (Buu saga)

1) Vegeta stomps, be it anime or manga. Anime Zamasu was about as strong as SSJ2 Goku (Who is probably 2x SSJ Goku), and ToP Vegeta is about 10x stronger than U6/Black Arc. Manga Zamasu struggled against Kibito.
2) Didn't Base Goku bounce it back? This Goku can take Beerus' Supernova.
3) Base Black is SSJ2 tier, he stomps.
4) Trunks said he and Goten could defeat #18 if weren't by the costume, but he lacks the ability and stamina to take on both. He loses after putting up a good fight.
6) IIRC one of the Daizenshuus says #16 is Gero's strongest Artificial Human, and i think Piccolo is = 16, so he wins.
9) Probably Bardock's crew.
10) I think the earthlings win. Although they are probably weaker than Cooler's squad, they have techniques strong enough to pull off a win.

[ZombieVito]

10 new fights:

1) Ssj Vegeta (ToP) vs Present Zamasu
2) Beerus's Supernova (BoG arc) vs SsjB KKx20 Goku's Genkidama (ep. 110)
3) Copy Vegeta (base) vs Goku Black (base, ep. 56)
4) Goten (Buu saga, base) vs 13 and 14
5) U10's team (without Obuni) vs Z fighters (Cell Games, Gohan can't turn Ssj2)
6) Piccolo (Cell Games) vs Super Android 13
7) Beerus (in Monaka's costume) vs Ultimate Gohan (ToP)
Napapa vs Base Gohan (start of ToP arc)
9) Bardock's crew vs Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, Tienshinhan, Chaotzu and Yamcha (Saiyans saga)
10) Salza, Dore and Neiz vs Krillin, Yamcha and Tienshinhan (Buu saga)

I actually have them as equals. Vegeta wins this after a long and hard fight.
Genkidama takes this.
Goku Black finger flicks.
Poor Goten gets killed.
Rubalt finger flicks all of them in seconds.
Piccolo I think.
I think Gohan has this in the bag.
Base Gohan is a monster after E90. He destroys him with ease.
While Bardock's crew should be stronger the Z fighters have something they don't have: Skill. Z fighters win.
Yamcha is enough to one shot them all.

[RandomGuy96]

10 new fights:

1) Ssj Vegeta (ToP) vs Present Zamasu
2) Beerus's Supernova (BoG arc) vs SsjB KKx20 Goku's Genkidama (ep. 110)
3) Copy Vegeta (base) vs Goku Black (base, ep. 56)
4) Goten (Buu saga, base) vs 13 and 14
5) U10's team (without Obuni) vs Z fighters (Cell Games, Gohan can't turn Ssj2)
6) Piccolo (Cell Games) vs Super Android 13
7) Beerus (in Monaka's costume) vs Ultimate Gohan (ToP)
Napapa vs Base Gohan (start of ToP arc)
9) Bardock's crew vs Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, Tienshinhan, Chaotzu and Yamcha (Saiyans saga)
10) Salza, Dore and Neiz vs Krillin, Yamcha and Tienshinhan (Buu saga)

1. Zamasu admitted he was weaker than SS1 Goku in the manga, but I think his paralysis powers would hand him the win... much like they did against SS1 Goku.
2. Anime exclusive, pass.
3. Anime exclusive, pass.
4. Per three different versions of BoG, none of the base saiyans have surpassed Namek Freeza by the post-Buu era.
5. None of the warriors of Universe 10 have any noteworthy feats. The heroes win easily.
6. Per Daizenshuu 7's character bios, Android 16 is the strongest android; notably, that same section includes a bio for Android 13, so it should apply to him as well. Therefore, #16 > Super #13. Compared to Piccolo, who was able to briefly trade blows with a Cell Junior, #13 then comes up very short. Piccolo disintegrates him with one blast.
7. Beerus's power in that state is totally arbitrary. There's no way to determine exactly what arbitrary percentage it was that he was using.
8. Ignoring typical Toei nonsense, Napapa has no feats to speak of other than getting pwned by Piccolo. Gohan should take him down.
9. We have no way of judging the power of Bardock's crew, other than that they're presumably far above typical low-class Saiyans, having fought alongside Bardock all these years. The Earthlings, on the other hand, are comparable to low-class Saiyans (Raditz: 1,500; Tenshinhan: 1,830, Krillin: 1,770, Yamcha: 1,480, Gohan: 981, Chaozu: 610). Piccolo is the only exception (Piccolo: 3,500). I'd say that they could beat the Earthlings, but with Piccolo and maybe Krillin taking one or two out.
10. Salza disposed of early Android arc era Krillin with one kick, and they collectively beat down early Android arc era Gohan like he was nothing. Gohan is likely stronger than all the humans, and Krillin is confirmed as the strongest human by the Buu arc, at which point he should be comparable with his Android arc self, having retired from fighting. The humans have no chance even if they all go at one member of the Armored Squadron together. Much less in a 3 on 3 match-up.

[dragon boss z]

In light of what Gohan accomplished in the manga, I would like to ask:
ToP Gohan vs 17.
Top Gohan vs Golden Freeza.
ToP Gohan vs SSB Goku (no kaioken).
ToP Gohan vs SSR Trunks (minus spirit sword).

Gohan solos without much trouble, except for the last round.

What? How does Gohan solo?

Turles (prime) vs 2nd Form Freeza
A18 (ToP) vs Magetta
Base Caulifla vs Frost
Super Perfect Cell (kkx10) vs Fat Buu
Shin vs SSJ1 Goku (Cell Games)
SSJ1 Vegeta (Cell Games) vs Piccolo (Buu Saga)
SSG Goku (ToP) vs SSB Vegeta (RoF)
Base Black (just before using Rose for the 1st Time) vs SSG Goku (Champa arc)

-Frieza stomps in first form from what I remember
-Magetta since he gave ssj Vegeta trouble
-Frost I would assume. He was stated to be U6's strongest warrior in the manga and seemed to be above base u6 saiyan tier.
-Cell, Fat Buu was at max ssj3 tier, and buu saga ssj2 Goku/Vegeta are at max 2x stronger than ssj2 kid Gohan. Since I high balled Buu and ssj2 Goku/Vegeta lets say SPC Cell is equal with ssj2 Goahn. That means fat buu would be 8x stronger than super perfect Cell.
-Goku
-Vegeta
-Vegeta
-Goku

10 new fights:

1) Ssj Vegeta (ToP) vs Present Zamasu
2) Beerus's Supernova (BoG arc) vs SsjB KKx20 Goku's Genkidama (ep. 110)
3) Copy Vegeta (base) vs Goku Black (base, ep. 56)
4) Goten (Buu saga, base) vs 13 and 14
5) U10's team (without Obuni) vs Z fighters (Cell Games, Gohan can't turn Ssj2)
6) Piccolo (Cell Games) vs Super Android 13
7) Beerus (in Monaka's costume) vs Ultimate Gohan (ToP)
Napapa vs Base Gohan (start of ToP arc)
9) Bardock's crew vs Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, Tienshinhan, Chaotzu and Yamcha (Saiyans saga)
10) Salza, Dore and Neiz vs Krillin, Yamcha and Tienshinhan (Buu saga)

1. Vegeta
2. Goku's genkidama
3. Goku Black
4. 13 and 14
5. Z fighters
6. super android 13 going off my memory
7. Gohan
8. Gohan
9. If Bardock is with his crew then they win. If not I don't know, I guess the Z fighters.
10. The humans can win with abilities, but they could lose if they aren't careful.