Why does it seem that Gogeta has way more fans than Vegetto?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Cetra
I Live Here
Posts: 3856
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:01 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Why does it seem that Gogeta has wayy more fans than Vegito?

Post by Cetra » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:53 am

sunsetshimmer wrote: Well from permanent fusion he got turned into 5 minute fusion, even shorter than Gogeta SSJ4.
Also, Fused Zamasu was meant to be weaker than Goku and Vegeta without fusion.
Meant to be originally and ended up are not the same thing. And in the anime this is definitely not the case.
"Citation needed."
"too lazy

feel free to take it with grain of salt or discredit me altogether, I'm not losing any sleep"

User avatar
TheMikado
I Live Here
Posts: 4866
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:28 pm

Re: Why does it seem that Gogeta has wayy more fans than Vegito?

Post by TheMikado » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:00 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
ricky84 wrote:
sunsetshimmer wrote:Gogeta SSJ completely stomped Janemba in badass way
Gogeta SSJ4 was fun and was...SSJ4 which most fans love

Vegito had entertaining fight against Super Buu and disappointing appearance and nerf in Super.
Also, since Vegito was permament until Super, fusing into Gogeta was way more likely to happen in any media which could make people care about Gogeta more while accepting a fact that Vegito most likely won't appear again.
Also, Gogeta was first and Vegito was just Toriyama's answer and pretty much ripoff of Movie 12 idea.
There was no nerf in the Super anime, Merged Zamasu got buffed the moment he grew the purple arm.
Well from permanent fusion he got turned into 5 minute fusion, even shorter than Gogeta SSJ4.
Also, Fused Zamasu was meant to be weaker than Goku and Vegeta without fusion.
Vegito was my favorite variant of the fusion until Super. Now the fusion is dumb, redundant, and uninteresting.
It’s most obvious and apparent drawback of permanent fusion in exchange for raw power was akin to many other literary double-edged swords where you exchange something great for something else of importance. Now it’s been reduced to yet another gimmick to be pulled out whenever the writers need a quick out and “Wow” factor.

The fusion dance was already bordering on gimmicky, but it was thankfully only used in canon with two characters, now it’s surpassed as a gimmick by Potara fusion. They should have used Gogeta for Super rather than Vegito.

So pre-super: Potara fusion cool literary device. One time use. Superiorly developer premise. Vegito preferred.

Post Super: over used nerfed Potara fusion which essentially becomes redundant with the fusion dance. Bad storytelling and lore consistency. Gogeta preferred.

Edit: this isn’t true...
“Also, Gogeta was first and Vegito was just Toriyama's answer and pretty much ripoff of Movie 12 idea.”

User avatar
Baggie_Saiyan
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10190
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:22 pm
Location: Atlantis.

Re: Why does it seem that Gogeta has wayy more fans than Vegito?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:31 am

90sDBZ wrote:I always got the impression Vegito was more popular, at least before he returned for Super.

I like both but I like Vegito more. The way he dominated Buu after we'd seen Buu dominate everyone for so long and absorb everyone was badass. People complain he was too cocky, but there was a method to the madness as he was trying to rescue his sons and Piccolo the whole time. He outsmarted both Buu and the audience by deliberately getting absorbed and was in control all along, and that makes him awesome.

Movie 12 Gogeta had no reason to mess around so ended things quickly like a boss. I understand why people would prefer his more serious no bullshit persona though, and his brief lines and finishing move are all kinds of cool.

GT Gogeta felt like a different character though. They basically had him act like Vegito except he had no reason to mess around which makes him the dumbest Goku Vegeta fusion. He still looks cool and is fun to play in the games, but he dropped the ball for no good reason.
But Vegetto's entire plan in the Buu arc was rather dumb. He basically risked it all to free his friends... Except the far less riskier strategy was to kill Buu and then revive his friends via Dragon Balls. They have two sets after all.

Frustrating thing is that's what happened anyway Kid Buu blew up the Earth and everyone got revived later.

Instead the fusion wore off and they unleashed the true form of Buu and Goku later regrets not taking Buu out as Vegetto, shows how badly Vegetto messed up. Vegetto may have accomplished his plan but his plan was rather stupid to begin with, I think.

User avatar
90sDBZ
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:34 am
Location: UK

Re: Why does it seem that Gogeta has wayy more fans than Vegito?

Post by 90sDBZ » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:02 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
90sDBZ wrote:I always got the impression Vegito was more popular, at least before he returned for Super.

I like both but I like Vegito more. The way he dominated Buu after we'd seen Buu dominate everyone for so long and absorb everyone was badass. People complain he was too cocky, but there was a method to the madness as he was trying to rescue his sons and Piccolo the whole time. He outsmarted both Buu and the audience by deliberately getting absorbed and was in control all along, and that makes him awesome.

Movie 12 Gogeta had no reason to mess around so ended things quickly like a boss. I understand why people would prefer his more serious no bullshit persona though, and his brief lines and finishing move are all kinds of cool.

GT Gogeta felt like a different character though. They basically had him act like Vegito except he had no reason to mess around which makes him the dumbest Goku Vegeta fusion. He still looks cool and is fun to play in the games, but he dropped the ball for no good reason.
But Vegetto's entire plan in the Buu arc was rather dumb. He basically risked it all to free his friends... Except the far less riskier strategy was to kill Buu and then revive his friends via Dragon Balls. They have two sets after all.

Frustrating thing is that's what happened anyway Kid Buu blew up the Earth and everyone got revived later.

Instead the fusion wore off and they unleashed the true form of Buu and Goku later regrets not taking Buu out as Vegetto, shows how badly Vegetto messed up. Vegetto may have accomplished his plan but his plan was rather stupid to begin with, I think.
I always assumed he didn't want to risk killing Buu because it would count as him killing his friends instead of Buu killing them, which would make reviving them along with everyone else more complicated. But I guess with the 2 sets of Dragonballs they would probably work something out.

Still his plan would have worked if he hadn't separated and the Vegeta half of him hadn't crushed the earring.

User avatar
sunsetshimmer
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1361
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
Location: Poland/Equestria

Re: Why does it seem that Gogeta has wayy more fans than Vegito?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:54 pm

TheMikado wrote: Edit: this isn’t true...
“Also, Gogeta was first and Vegito was just Toriyama's answer and pretty much ripoff of Movie 12 idea.”
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... interview/

Image
Rarity is the best pony
Pan-chan is the best saiya-jin

User avatar
TheMikado
I Live Here
Posts: 4866
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:28 pm

Re: Why does it seem that Gogeta has wayy more fans than Vegito?

Post by TheMikado » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:18 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
TheMikado wrote: Edit: this isn’t true...
“Also, Gogeta was first and Vegito was just Toriyama's answer and pretty much ripoff of Movie 12 idea.”
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... interview/

Image
I don’t see how that’s possible when the manga released in January 1995 and the movie didn’t come out until March 1995. It doesn’t even say it was Movie 12, it sounds like Toei got permission to use the fusion dance for Goku and Vegeta and Toriyama wanted to use fusion too but didn’t want to rehash it with the movie coming out with the same idea.

User avatar
sunsetshimmer
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1361
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
Location: Poland/Equestria

Re: Why does it seem that Gogeta has wayy more fans than Vegito?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:29 pm

TheMikado wrote:
sunsetshimmer wrote:
TheMikado wrote: Edit: this isn’t true...
“Also, Gogeta was first and Vegito was just Toriyama's answer and pretty much ripoff of Movie 12 idea.”
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... interview/

Image
I don’t see how that’s possible when the manga released in January 1995 and the movie didn’t come out until March 1995. It doesn’t even say it was Movie 12, it sounds like Toei got permission to use the fusion dance for Goku and Vegeta and Toriyama wanted to use fusion too but didn’t want to rehash it with the movie coming out with the same idea.
Well movie obviously was in production for more than 2 months so even though manga chapter with Vegito debuted first, Gogeta was already a thing before that.
Rarity is the best pony
Pan-chan is the best saiya-jin

ricky84
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: Why does it seem that Gogeta has wayy more fans than Vegito?

Post by ricky84 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:14 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
90sDBZ wrote:I always got the impression Vegito was more popular, at least before he returned for Super.

I like both but I like Vegito more. The way he dominated Buu after we'd seen Buu dominate everyone for so long and absorb everyone was badass. People complain he was too cocky, but there was a method to the madness as he was trying to rescue his sons and Piccolo the whole time. He outsmarted both Buu and the audience by deliberately getting absorbed and was in control all along, and that makes him awesome.

Movie 12 Gogeta had no reason to mess around so ended things quickly like a boss. I understand why people would prefer his more serious no bullshit persona though, and his brief lines and finishing move are all kinds of cool.

GT Gogeta felt like a different character though. They basically had him act like Vegito except he had no reason to mess around which makes him the dumbest Goku Vegeta fusion. He still looks cool and is fun to play in the games, but he dropped the ball for no good reason.
But Vegetto's entire plan in the Buu arc was rather dumb. He basically risked it all to free his friends... Except the far less riskier strategy was to kill Buu and then revive his friends via Dragon Balls. They have two sets after all.

Frustrating thing is that's what happened anyway Kid Buu blew up the Earth and everyone got revived later.

Instead the fusion wore off and they unleashed the true form of Buu and Goku later regrets not taking Buu out as Vegetto, shows how badly Vegetto messed up. Vegetto may have accomplished his plan but his plan was rather stupid to begin with, I think.
If Vegito killed Buuhan, his kids and Piccolo would still be absorbed inside Buuhan in the afterlife. They wouldn't automatically separate from him in death, like how Kami and Nail don't separate from Piccolo whenever the later dies.

So Vegito needed to get inside Buuhan in other to save them either way.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

ricky84
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: Why does it seem that Gogeta has wayy more fans than Vegito?

Post by ricky84 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:17 pm

TheMikado wrote:
sunsetshimmer wrote:
ricky84 wrote:
There was no nerf in the Super anime, Merged Zamasu got buffed the moment he grew the purple arm.
Well from permanent fusion he got turned into 5 minute fusion, even shorter than Gogeta SSJ4.
Also, Fused Zamasu was meant to be weaker than Goku and Vegeta without fusion.
Vegito was my favorite variant of the fusion until Super. Now the fusion is dumb, redundant, and uninteresting.
It’s most obvious and apparent drawback of permanent fusion in exchange for raw power was akin to many other literary double-edged swords where you exchange something great for something else of importance. Now it’s been reduced to yet another gimmick to be pulled out whenever the writers need a quick out and “Wow” factor.

The fusion dance was already bordering on gimmicky, but it was thankfully only used in canon with two characters, now it’s surpassed as a gimmick by Potara fusion. They should have used Gogeta for Super rather than Vegito.

So pre-super: Potara fusion cool literary device. One time use. Superiorly developer premise. Vegito preferred.

Post Super: over used nerfed Potara fusion which essentially becomes redundant with the fusion dance. Bad storytelling and lore consistency. Gogeta preferred.

Edit: this isn’t true...
“Also, Gogeta was first and Vegito was just Toriyama's answer and pretty much ripoff of Movie 12 idea.”
At least Vegito actually has an entertaining personality. Winning isn't everything, and we all know fusion never finishes a fight under Toriyama's pen. I doubt Gogeta would actually finish off Broly in the new movie.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 15633
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: VA

Re: Why does it seem that Gogeta has wayy more fans than Vegito?

Post by ABED » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:20 pm

If Vegito killed Buuhan, his kids and Piccolo would still be absorbed inside Buuhan in the afterlife. They wouldn't automatically separate from him in death, like how Kami and Nail don't separate from Piccolo whenever the later dies.
To be fair, Kami and Piccolo are one being, and Namekian fusion is different than the fusion dance or the Potara. Toriyama never went that deep into the differences, at least not that I remember.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

ricky84
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: Why does it seem that Gogeta has wayy more fans than Vegito?

Post by ricky84 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:28 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
ricky84 wrote:
sunsetshimmer wrote:Gogeta SSJ completely stomped Janemba in badass way
Gogeta SSJ4 was fun and was...SSJ4 which most fans love

Vegito had entertaining fight against Super Buu and disappointing appearance and nerf in Super.
Also, since Vegito was permament until Super, fusing into Gogeta was way more likely to happen in any media which could make people care about Gogeta more while accepting a fact that Vegito most likely won't appear again.
Also, Gogeta was first and Vegito was just Toriyama's answer and pretty much ripoff of Movie 12 idea.
There was no nerf in the Super anime, Merged Zamasu got buffed the moment he grew the purple arm.
Well from permanent fusion he got turned into 5 minute fusion, even shorter than Gogeta SSJ4.
Also, Fused Zamasu was meant to be weaker than Goku and Vegeta without fusion.
Vegito Blue officially lasted 10 minutes in the anime according to dialogue (and it would have been longer if it weren't for the Final Kamehameha). And no, Fused Zamasu was definitely not meant to be weaker than Goku and Vegeta in the anime. Goku Black Rose in his prime in the anime was stronger than both SSB Goku & SSB Vegeta added together, and Future Zamasu was undeniably SSB tier in the anime as well. Apply the Potara multiplier and you can see why Merged Zamasu was as strong as he was in the anime version, especially after powering up even more and growing the purple arm (that was when Goku decided they need to fuse). Vegito Blue wasn't nerfed in the anime, M.Zamasu was buffed.

Merged Zamasu in the manga is massively weaker than his anime version because Black and Future Zamasu themselves are massively weaker than their anime versions. With Goku Black Rose being weaker than SSB Vegeta and Future Zamasu being only SSJ2 level.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 15633
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: VA

Re: Why does it seem that Gogeta has wayy more fans than Vegito?

Post by ABED » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:30 pm

I know they are technically different, but I fail to see why two fusions of the same characters are considered that different.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
GT_Goten10
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Why does it seem that Gogeta has wayy more fans than Vegito?

Post by GT_Goten10 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:01 pm

ABED wrote:I know they are technically different, but I fail to see why two fusions of the same characters are considered that different.
I ask myself that too, but I think it's because of the different designs and Gogeta is SSJ4 branded&Vegito SSB branded
GT Fighter

User avatar
ShaneisMC
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 441
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:02 pm
Location: Hawkinsville Georgia USA

Re: Why does it seem that Gogeta has way more fans than Vegetto?

Post by ShaneisMC » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:43 pm

Also as far as Gogeta goes, before Super was a thing Gogeta was unquestionably the most powerful character in Dragon Ball. A title he held for 16-18 years.

User avatar
Zillamon51
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:30 pm
Location: S.E. Michigan
Contact:

Re: Why does it seem that Gogeta has way more fans than Vegetto?

Post by Zillamon51 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:29 pm

I think fans carried the torch for Gogeta for two reasons. One, power counts for a lot, and SS4 Gogeta was top dog pre-Super. Second, until the Potara retcon, Vegito was a permanent fusion. So Gogeta was much more likely to appear again someday.
"...It’s still going to be the same sort of easy-to-understand content as always." - Akira Toriyama, on transitioning from DBZ to DBS.

"Just repeat to yourself, It's just a show,
I should really just relax..." - MST3K theme song

Post Reply