"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

The problem is Toppo and Dyspo losing the way they did. Heavy hitters like that are suppose to put up a fight yet get taken out in that fashion.

[buutenks]

In Toyo's defense, when a character in DB got beat up allot or spent allot of his energy, they can barely move.

This happened to Vegeta twice in the saiyan saga, kid Gohan and krillin in the namek saga after spending most of their ki attacking Freeza by surprise, Goku(Ginyu) after Vegeta gave him a beating, Goku vs Freeza after spirit bomb(he was so drained, krillin had to help him stand up, till the ssj boost refreshed his stamina), Vegeta in the kid buu fight. There are more.

So i dont find it so bad.

[kemuri07]

Well yes, the point of a Tournament arc is to have cool fights. Nothing bad with people wanting that.

To many people, Toppo's entrance in the manga was better than in anime, because he actually managed to beat Goku. And now we get such an underwhelming elimination of him and Dyspo. It's like he's been hyped for nothing.

The manga has a sensible powerscale, so it won't do the same things the anime does. Buffing Goku so that his God form is a lot stronger than his Blue form was a few episodes, Kale and Caulifla's stupidly powerful fusion, and Vegeta's successive rage boosts were all added to make things "cool", but they ruin the believability of the story.

You can have a sensible power scale and cool fights, let's not act like they're mutually exclusive when the original series did both.

If by Original series you mean DB(Z). Sure. If you’re talking about Super, yeah no. An issue with Super is its tendency to sacrifice a cohesive narrative for spectacle. And while, yeah, Toriyama wasn’t afraid to deliver on the spectacle front, Toriyama was a damn good enough writer that he found a healthy medium between both.

I’m not gonna sit here and say that Toyotaro is in league with Toriyamas work. It isn’t. And despite me being positive about Super manga, I think Super in generally can’t compare to the original series, but Toyotaro at least takes the nonsense that’s the anime and makes it entertaining to read.

So we can talk about cool fights, but it doesn’t mean anything if I don’t give a fuck about anything that’s going on. That’s really Super(anime) in a nutshell: some cool stuff surrounded by fucking trash.

[Doctor.]

I'm talking about Dragon Ball by Akira Toriyama obviously, not Super.

[ZombieVito]

Good to see that the manga continues to do it's monthly job of making the anime look better.

[RandomGuy96]

3. Jiren did literally nothing wrong this chapter; Toppo and Dyspo were far too weakened to be any of use, so bringing them back in just would have caused unnecessary pain. I'm not sure if the author intended that.

At first, I was going to agree with this. I could buy Toppo and Dyspo being too weakened to clear the gap, but the consequence of that would be that they're also too weak to help Jiren at all and therefore don't matter.

However, they don't actually need to help Jiren. If they stayed in the ring while he dealt with the others, that's two less people Jiren needs to ring out before the time limit is up.

Looking at the anime's conclusion, if Dyspo and Toppo hid in the ring while everyone gave their all against Jiren, culminating in Goku & Freeza tackling Jiren out of the ring... time runs out, Universe 11 have two members and Universe 7 only has one. This idea requires everyone be so busy with Jiren that they can't spare the time to knock out Dyspo and Toppo, but that's a similar concession to Jiren just not immediately knocking the remaining fighters out.

By abandoning them, he has committed himself to taking out all of the remaining fighters. Which works fine with his belief that it's an inevitable outcome anyway, but that will ultimately backfire on him.

This is where I disagree. Freeza had been going out of his way to pick off weak fighters before actually seriously engaging anyone. Even ignoring previous context and just going by what is presented in the chapter alone, Jiren bringing them back in would have been a waste.

[Bergamo]

Good to see that the manga continues to do it's monthly job of making the anime look better.

The anime sadly still doesn't have much going for it, unless you prefer the continuity where Krillin is God tier.

[SSJgogeto]

If Krillin is God tier in the anime then Roshi is God tier in the manga.

[Bergamo]

If Krillin is God tier in the anime then Roshi is God tier in the manga.

So then doesn't that mean they both suck? For every plot hole the manga has the anime has one just as bad. If people could take a step back they'd realize that Super is consistent across mediums. Whether that means it's consistently good or consistently bad is up to the viewer to decide.

[prince212]

The problem is Toppo and Dyspo losing the way they did. Heavy hitters like that are suppose to put up a fight yet get taken out in that fashion.

Right , 2 pages more of vegeta vs toppo and another 2 of dyspo vs 17 (at least ) ,could make it look better .
Well , in u11 pre-tournament they were losers against an ugly monster and in their last stance on the tournament they were pathetic too , That’s why jiren said “go to the benches and enjoy from there”

[The Monkey King]

The drawing of Jiren on the last page is laughably bad!

The first time I saw it I thought it was a Deviant Art mock-up that a fan created.

As for the chapter... It was ok, Dyspo and Toppo were made to look too pathetic in my eyes. The anime did them way more justice than this.

This is my continued issue with the critiques of the manga. What would it have been better if Toppo and Dyspo received a random powerup just so they can have a cool fight?

So long as the power-up is reasonably explained why the hell not?

[reecehoward]

The manga has a sensible powerscale, so it won't do the same things the anime does. Buffing Goku so that his God form is a lot stronger than his Blue form was a few episodes, Kale and Caulifla's stupidly powerful fusion, and Vegeta's successive rage boosts were all added to make things "cool", but they ruin the believability of the story.

You can have a sensible power scale and cool fights, let's not act like they're mutually exclusive when the original series did both.

I don't deny that, but I'd rather have less cool fights and a better power scale rather than more cool fights and a worse power scale.

Seriously?! Weren't you one of the guys defending the Roshi scene last month?lmao

[reecehoward]

In Toyo's defense, when a character in DB got beat up allot or spent allot of his energy, they can barely move.

This happened to Vegeta twice in the saiyan saga, kid Gohan and krillin in the namek saga after spending most of their ki attacking Freeza by surprise, Goku(Ginyu) after Vegeta gave him a beating, Goku vs Freeza after spirit bomb(he was so drained, krillin had to help him stand up, till the ssj boost refreshed his stamina), Vegeta in the kid buu fight. There are more.

So i dont find it so bad.

Bro...Vegeta and Ginyu were literally brought to the point of being crippled before they couldn't move. Toppo was still getting ready to fight Vegeta before he flexed on him. Not at all the same thing.

[prince212]

I’m fine with the rocks scene , it was made to show how pride troopers entrusted all this time in jiren and to finish toppo and dyspo fast . It was original . It’s not that toppo can’t even move , they can’t clear the gap , they are standing in floating rocks that seem to don’t be good to get a proper impulse , you can’t flight , there’s a special gravity , so that scene works for me

Spoiler:

[supersaiyanZero]

You can have a sensible power scale and cool fights, let's not act like they're mutually exclusive when the original series did both.

I don't deny that, but I'd rather have less cool fights and a better power scale rather than more cool fights and a worse power scale.

Seriously?! Weren't you one of the guys defending the Roshi scene last month?lmao

Aren't you the one who has 5 pages of "toyo absolutely ruined roshi's character"? Lmao whos going to take YOU seriously after that bro

[TKA]

I'm lukewarm on this chapter. I don't like 11th hour power ups, even though Vegeta's was alluded to/foreshadowed.

I did, however, like how Toppo and Dyspo got eliminated: by Frieza being a cold-hearted opportunist and Jiren showing his resentment of the two not being able to live up to standards.

The art also seemed worse than usual. Rougher in places. Lacking polish.

How to make 18 even more unlikable than she was in the last episode of the Super anime:

Have her not give a shit about her own brother's sacrifice.

Did you miss the chapter where 17 was re-introduced and he and 18 parted ways, 18 saying something like "Well, looks like we won't see each other again."

They're cold people. They understand each other. Regardless of what the anime might tell you, that's more in-keeping with 18's portrayal in the original manga.

[Simere]

I'm lukewarm on this chapter. I don't like 11th hour power ups, even though Vegeta's was alluded to/foreshadowed.

What are you referring to?

[TKA]

What are you referring to?

In Chapter 27 he said he was done following Goku and would get to the top his way. Earlier, he found his own way of getting around Super Saiyan Blue's drawbacks. Him getting his own transformation makes thematic sense for the character... but it doesn't make plot sense, which is the most basic level. If something is meant to be thematic, but isn't justifiable in the plot, it's implemented poorly. I'm not a fan of this at all.

[picc]

Wasn't a gigantic fan of Vegeta getting that instant boost out of nowhere. But unlike the anime, at least the manga attempts to explain things. His speech took a lot of the sting out of it at worst, and justified it at best.

If the anime had even attempted to explain the bull that happened over and over again, instead of just treating the audience like we were all 3 year olds, it would have been a lot less insulting.

[Dbzk1999]

Wasn't a gigantic fan of Vegeta getting that instant boost out of nowhere. But unlike the anime, at least the manga attempts to explain things. His speech took a lot of the sting out of it at worst, and justified it at best.

If the anime had even attempted to explain the bull that happened over and over again, instead of just treating the audience like we were all 3 year olds, it would have been a lot less insulting.

How is this anymore of an explanation than what happened in the anime?