"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[reecehoward]

@lord turbo

EXPERIENCE. Roshi has been in more fights than Goku and he has been doing martial arts longer. He also knows more techniques. You can't deny those facts.

Roshi doesn't have more techniques than Goku. Variety, maybe. Goku knows more, and probably the most of any warrior shown in the show/manga.

[Bergamo]

Chapter 40 was basically everything I didn't like about the anime's episodes 122 to 129 condensed into 45 pages.

Some random notes/thoughts on the chapter:

- I've always been one of the people that really liked SSJB Evolution, not for its aesthetic, but more so for what it represented for Vegeta's character and his wholesome growth as a person. In the anime, the foundation for Vegeta attaining SSJB Evolution was based on his intense empathy toward others outside of his inner circle -- which also tied into the main prize of winning the Tournament Of Power (something wanted to accomplish prior to the tournament beginning) -- and his effort to forge his own path of strength beyond what Goku is doing.

In the manga, Vegeta attained his SSJB Evolution form because he was upset that Goku attained Ultra Instinct and left him in the dust again. I despise that motivation because I find to be character regression. That's kind of shit that Android/Cell arc Vegeta was doing, and Vegeta grew beyond that nonsense. Also, Vegeta mentioning that he had no master -- completely disregarding the fact that if it weren't for Whis' teachings and training he wouldn't have been able to attain SSJB Evolution -- was ridiculous. Part of Vegeta having Whis as his martial arts tutor (his first martial arts tutor at that) involved him swallowing his pride and accepting that if he was going to keep with Goku, he would need the help of others to do it. Now he's acting like he became as strong as he did without anybody helping him. What horseshit. Awful character writing.

Everything Vegeta said was just character regression (more so than usual), he's suppose to be beyond this, but I guess progressing the character beyond his bad flaws doesn't work for the story (or lack of) being told here. Vegeta's speech was just disrespectful and reeked of ungratefulness, bitterness, jealousy, and loathe. This chapter literally confirms that TFS's joke interpretation of whining princess Vegeta's "I wanna be a super saiyan, I wanna, I wanna" is spot on. Vegeta grew much stronger by drawing on pure negative emotions and spite at Goku's success. Like someone else once said its sad how Goku lives rent-free in Vegeta's head 24/7, that unhealthy obsession is not good for him.

Vegeta didn't have to bad mouth and call Goku's hardships and journey to where he is now as "Carefree kindergarten" level scraps. The whole "I'm a self made MAN forged on the true battlefield as a real soldier he had it rough growing up in the space hood is eye rolling. The fact Whis expressions were "......" just makes it funny and sad at the same time. Like another poster said I wouldn't mind this if Vegeta first pondered, appreciate Whis help, but decides its best if he tries to forge his own path instead of follow the leader would have been a much better execution, but meh, it seems Toyo doesn't really give a damn about Vegeta's characterization at this point, just checking off the bulletin points at this rate.

I'm greatly disappointed in not only Toppo, but Dyspo, they just weren't handled particular well at all in this ToP saga, I also don't like how Dyspo was eliminated. If he knew he was weakened and out of gas from fighting 17 then why set himself up for failure by trying to help Toppo when he's in no position to help anyone? That was just careless and contrived storytelling just to get this character out the way to focus on the main event (Jiren).

Apparently Toppo and Dyspo got weakened to Early DB levels if they weren't even able to clear a gap that small.

Again with the power level stuff. Did people complain when Saiyan saga Vegeta with a beating like his should've also been able to get up and walk like it was nothing since it takes literally just fraction of 1 power level to?

If you think about it that is quite weird, Vegeta and Toppo are equally worn out to the point Toppo is too tired to jump distance that 21st Budokai saga Goku and Krillin could do by casually jumping above the clouds. The problem here Vegeta is in a similar condition just before raging out from lower than 21 Budokai saga Goku and Krillin to much higher than he currently was when he started out fresh as a compete SSB.

@lord turbo

EXPERIENCE. Roshi has been in more fights than Goku and he has been doing martial arts longer. He also knows more techniques. You can't deny those facts.

More experience and fights is questionable and debatable, knowing more techniques is debatable as well. You know what's not debatable though? Roshi flat out stating Goku's is a better martial artist than himself to the point he even takes and improves on his (Roshi) own teaching in areas he lacked in.[/quote]
Goku is a better martial artist in the 23rd Budokai and he is a better martial artist in DBS chapter 39. Also, to think that Roshi lived for over 200 years or something and has had less fights than Goku is ridiculous.

[JazzMazz]

Chapter 40 was basically everything I didn't like about the anime's episodes 122 to 129 condensed into 45 pages.

Some random notes/thoughts on the chapter:

- I've always been one of the people that really liked SSJB Evolution, not for its aesthetic, but more so for what it represented for Vegeta's character and his wholesome growth as a person. In the anime, the foundation for Vegeta attaining SSJB Evolution was based on his intense empathy toward others outside of his inner circle -- which also tied into the main prize of winning the Tournament Of Power (something wanted to accomplish prior to the tournament beginning) -- and his effort to forge his own path of strength beyond what Goku is doing.

In the manga, Vegeta attained his SSJB Evolution form because he was upset that Goku attained Ultra Instinct and left him in the dust again. I despise that motivation because I find to be character regression. That's kind of shit that Android/Cell arc Vegeta was doing, and Vegeta grew beyond that nonsense. Also, Vegeta mentioning that he had no master -- completely disregarding the fact that if it weren't for Whis' teachings and training he wouldn't have been able to attain SSJB Evolution -- was ridiculous. Part of Vegeta having Whis as his martial arts tutor (his first martial arts tutor at that) involved him swallowing his pride and accepting that if he was going to keep with Goku, he would need the help of others to do it. Now he's acting like he became as strong as he did without anybody helping him. What horseshit. Awful character writing.

Everything Vegeta said was just character regression (more so than usual), he's suppose to be beyond this, but I guess progressing the character beyond his bad flaws doesn't work for the story (or lack of) being told here. Vegeta's speech was just disrespectful and reeked of ungratefulness, bitterness, jealousy, and loathe. This chapter literally confirms that TFS's joke interpretation of whining princess Vegeta's "I wanna be a super saiyan, I wanna, I wanna" is spot on. Vegeta grew much stronger by drawing on pure negative emotions and spite at Goku's success. Like someone else once said its sad how Goku lives rent-free in Vegeta's head 24/7, that unhealthy obsession is not good for him.

Vegeta didn't have to bad mouth and call Goku's hardships and journey to where he is now as "Carefree kindergarten" level scraps. The whole "I'm a self made MAN forged on the true battlefield as a real soldier he had it rough growing up in the space hood is eye rolling. The fact Whis expressions were "......" just makes it funny and sad at the same time. Like another poster said I wouldn't mind this if Vegeta first pondered, appreciate Whis help, but decides its best if he tries to forge his own path instead of follow the leader would have been a much better execution, but meh, it seems Toyo doesn't really give a damn about Vegeta's characterization at this point, just checking off the bulletin points at this rate.

I'm greatly disappointed in not only Toppo, but Dyspo, they just weren't handled particular well at all in this ToP saga, I also don't like how Dyspo was eliminated. If he knew he was weakened and out of gas from fighting 17 then why set himself up for failure by trying to help Toppo when he's in no position to help anyone? That was just careless and contrived storytelling just to get this character out the way to focus on the main event (Jiren).

Apparently Toppo and Dyspo got weakened to Early DB levels if they weren't even able to clear a gap that small.

Again with the power level stuff. Did people complain when Saiyan saga Vegeta with a beating like his should've also been able to get up and walk like it was nothing since it takes literally just fraction of 1 power level to?

If you think about it that is quite weird, Vegeta and Toppo are equally worn out to the point Toppo is too tired to jump distance that 21st Budokai saga Goku and Krillin could do by casually jumping above the clouds. The problem here Vegeta is in a similar condition just before raging out from lower than 21 Budokai saga Goku and Krillin to much higher than he currently was when he started out fresh as a compete SSB.

@lord turbo

EXPERIENCE. Roshi has been in more fights than Goku and he has been doing martial arts longer. He also knows more techniques. You can't deny those facts.

More experience and fights is questionable and debatable, knowing more techniques is debatable as well. You know what's not debatable though? Roshi flat out stating Goku's is a better martial artist than himself to the point he even takes and improves on his (Roshi) own teaching in areas he lacked in.


Goku is a better martial artist in the 23rd Budokai and he is a better martial artist in DBS chapter 39. Also, to think that Roshi lived for over 200 years or something and has had less fights than Goku is ridiculous.

To clear something up, having more fights doesn't necessarily mean you are more combat hardened, if the battles you participate in are of a lower calibre, and that's the difference, Roshi may have had 200 years of experience, but he never encountered anyway in 200 years that was as strong as Kami, much less someone like Raditz, he also never trained or learned under Kami or any of the masters past that point, so there is no reason he should have(in story), fighting capabilities that shock the likes of Beerus.

[Rakurai]

Ehh, I wouldn't find it surprising if the manga went that route as well - the whole "I'll think of Cabba!" shtick to get another temporary power boost.

Though it seems unlikely given how quickly Vegeta dismissed Cabba when he needed him the most. Actually, their relationship seems pretty one-sided given how oddly cold senpai Vegeta is to kouhai Cabba-kun.

Truth, vegeta is not done in this tournament, sure there’s a chance for any surprise, some will be happy if there’s any mention to “my cabba” , I don’t think I will be happy .
I don’t expect any other power boost from him , I’ll be disappointed if so , because one of my dislikes of anime top was all the “ resurrections” . Also I think there’s just 2 more chapters, so it’s time to get to the point .
I’m surprised to be intriguing about this manga arc end , we are supposed to know it but still ....
We can like or dislike the way is being handled the arc , but for sure is keeping the readers attention for good or for bad.

Vegeta should really have no reason to care about Cabba that much when his own universe is at stake. As he said, in the battlefield they are foes not allies. The only reason why he saved Cabba from being knocked out at the time was because he wanted an explanation about who Kale really was.

[Raphael_Z]

OMG Toppo and Dyspo not being able to jump that small gap was hilarious. Couldn't Toppo just throw Dyspo towards the stage? The way that the second, third and fourth (the cyborg dude that was knocked by Roshi) strongest warriors of U11 were defeated reminded me of Hanna Barbera's cartoonish villains.

[LightBing]

It's clearly implied that they couldn't jump the gap and that was the problem. But couldn't the problem be they couldn't jump the gap quick enough without Freeza shooting them down?
It just makes so much more sense. I attribute it to the rushing that has been happening for a few chapters now, Toyotarõ can and did put out much higher quality chapter.

A shame really, this arc started solid/good got even better when the tournament started(Frost's chapter is really good) then we had Hit vs Jiren which was simply dull and all following chapters bar one weren't great.

Like with the Zamasu arc, reading all the chapters in succession is likely to improve the arc although I don't think it will be enough to make it that much better. Monthly intervals are rough.

[reecehoward]

Everything Vegeta said was just character regression (more so than usual), he's suppose to be beyond this, but I guess progressing the character beyond his bad flaws doesn't work for the story (or lack of) being told here. Vegeta's speech was just disrespectful and reeked of ungratefulness, bitterness, jealousy, and loathe. This chapter literally confirms that TFS's joke interpretation of whining princess Vegeta's "I wanna be a super saiyan, I wanna, I wanna" is spot on. Vegeta grew much stronger by drawing on pure negative emotions and spite at Goku's success. Like someone else once said its sad how Goku lives rent-free in Vegeta's head 24/7, that unhealthy obsession is not good for him.

Vegeta didn't have to bad mouth and call Goku's hardships and journey to where he is now as "Carefree kindergarten" level scraps. The whole "I'm a self made MAN forged on the true battlefield as a real soldier he had it rough growing up in the space hood is eye rolling. The fact Whis expressions were "......" just makes it funny and sad at the same time. Like another poster said I wouldn't mind this if Vegeta first pondered, appreciate Whis help, but decides its best if he tries to forge his own path instead of follow the leader would have been a much better execution, but meh, it seems Toyo doesn't really give a damn about Vegeta's characterization at this point, just checking off the bulletin points at this rate.

I'm greatly disappointed in not only Toppo, but Dyspo, they just weren't handled particular well at all in this ToP saga, I also don't like how Dyspo was eliminated. If he knew he was weakened and out of gas from fighting 17 then why set himself up for failure by trying to help Toppo when he's in no position to help anyone? That was just careless and contrived storytelling just to get this character out the way to focus on the main event (Jiren).



Again with the power level stuff. Did people complain when Saiyan saga Vegeta with a beating like his should've also been able to get up and walk like it was nothing since it takes literally just fraction of 1 power level to?

If you think about it that is quite weird, Vegeta and Toppo are equally worn out to the point Toppo is too tired to jump distance that 21st Budokai saga Goku and Krillin could do by casually jumping above the clouds. The problem here Vegeta is in a similar condition just before raging out from lower than 21 Budokai saga Goku and Krillin to much higher than he currently was when he started out fresh as a compete SSB.

@lord turbo

EXPERIENCE. Roshi has been in more fights than Goku and he has been doing martial arts longer. He also knows more techniques. You can't deny those facts.

More experience and fights is questionable and debatable, knowing more techniques is debatable as well. You know what's not debatable though? Roshi flat out stating Goku's is a better martial artist than himself to the point he even takes and improves on his (Roshi) own teaching in areas he lacked in.


Goku is a better martial artist in the 23rd Budokai and he is a better martial artist in DBS chapter 39. Also, to think that Roshi lived for over 200 years or something and has had less fights than Goku is ridiculous.

To clear something up, having more fights doesn't necessarily mean you are more combat hardened, if the battles you participate in are of a lower calibre, and that's the difference, Roshi may have had 200 years of experience, but he never encountered anyway in 200 years that was as strong as Kami, much less someone like Raditz, he also never trained or learned under Kami or any of the masters past that point, so there is no reason he should have(in story), fighting capabilities that shock the likes of Beerus.

Thank you! I can't believe people have been trying to equate Roshi's age with his experiences. Sure he's old as shit, but dude can't even fly, amongst other commonplace techniques that the other Z warriors have all mastered. Not only that, but the strongest opponent he's faced prior to Super is King Piccolo. Compare that to all of the opponents across the cosmos that Goku has had to face along with Goku being outclassed in many of those to a far greater extent than Roshi could ever have nightmares about, Goku has had to gain the knowledge and power in such a rapid pace. I'm hard pressed to believe that Roshi has encountered any opponent in his 300+ years that would give him more "experience" than Goku. It's like comparing Lebron James' high school gym coach to Lebron James now. That's literally what pops in my head when people keep talking about "muh experience", I see Lebron James dunking all over some 50-70 year old washed up gym teacher.lol

[Miracles]

...What isn't consistent and what people don't like is badly regressing Goku to a point where he's a forgetful buffoon that doesn't learn or remember anything he was taught, mastered, and improved on over the course of his life just to give Roshi some shine at the character's expense, that's bad storytelling...

If Goku remembered his teachings, he would of tapped into UI during Whis explanation on it himself. Which resembled his past principles. This was the whole point of Roshi reminding Goku. So it's not a regression or inconsistency but a continued plot point.

[reecehoward]

...What isn't consistent and what people don't like is badly regressing Goku to a point where he's a forgetful buffoon that doesn't learn or remember anything he was taught, mastered, and improved on over the course of his life just to give Roshi some shine at the character's expense, that's bad storytelling...

If Goku remembered his teachings, he would of tapped into UI during Whis explanation on it himself. Which resembled his past principles. This was the whole point of Roshi reminding Goku. So it's not a regression or inconsistency but a continued plot point.

How would Roshi even know what was taught to Goku beyond Korin? Roshi's knowledge should but go so far, since he hasn't trained with or experienced the type of training Goku's received in the first place.

[Bergamo]

...What isn't consistent and what people don't like is badly regressing Goku to a point where he's a forgetful buffoon that doesn't learn or remember anything he was taught, mastered, and improved on over the course of his life just to give Roshi some shine at the character's expense, that's bad storytelling...

If Goku remembered his teachings, he would of tapped into UI during Whis explanation on it himself. Which resembled his past principles. This was the whole point of Roshi reminding Goku. So it's not a regression or inconsistency but a continued plot point.

How would Roshi even know what was taught to Goku beyond Korin? Roshi's knowledge should but go so far, since he hasn't trained with or experienced the type of training Goku's received in the first place.

Goku probably told Roshi about his training with his other masters. He was training with Roshi a few months prior during the FT arc. It's never explained who told Roshi about Goku's masters, but it's also not unreasonable Goku would have said something. This is called suspension of disbelief.

[sintzu]

OMG Toppo and Dyspo not being able to jump that small gap was hilarious. Couldn't Toppo just throw Dyspo towards the stage? The way that the second, third and fourth (the cyborg dude that was knocked by Roshi) strongest warriors of U11 were defeated reminded me of Hanna Barbera's cartoonish villains.

You'd think Toppo being the 2nd antagonist would've gotten something but nope, just blown away by Vegeta powering up as if he were a Yamcha or Raditz. Toyotaro did an amazing job on the Black arc so it's a shame to see such a drop in quality now. Hopefully things will pick up again once he gets to Broly as I've read that's one of his best characters so hopefully his work will be as well.

[PFM18]

OMG Toppo and Dyspo not being able to jump that small gap was hilarious. Couldn't Toppo just throw Dyspo towards the stage? The way that the second, third and fourth (the cyborg dude that was knocked by Roshi) strongest warriors of U11 were defeated reminded me of Hanna Barbera's cartoonish villains.

Well the only way this could be possible is if they were so weakened they were weaker than 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Goku, because he could surely jump that distance easily. We saw him do it several times.

Toyotaro did an amazing job on the Black arc

Uhh are you sure he did?

[The gr]

OMG Toppo and Dyspo not being able to jump that small gap was hilarious. Couldn't Toppo just throw Dyspo towards the stage? The way that the second, third and fourth (the cyborg dude that was knocked by Roshi) strongest warriors of U11 were defeated reminded me of Hanna Barbera's cartoonish villains.

You'd think Toppo being the 2nd antagonist would've gotten something but nope, just blown away by Vegeta powering up as if he were a Yamcha or Raditz. Toyotaro did an amazing job on the Black arc so it's a shame to see such a drop in quality now. Hopefully things will pick up again once he gets to Broly as I've read that's one of his best characters so hopefully his work will be as well.

Eh Goku black and Zamasu were also weak but I will agree on one thing, I don't think the Tournament of power climax will top the black arc if the Manga keep going to this direction.

[sintzu]

Uhh are you sure he did?

I think the art and fights were great. Trunks wasn't overpowered like he was in the anime but I do think he should've been more useful. The final act wasn't rushed like the anime's was. Vegeta wans't a push over like he was in the anime (I guess he bounced back in the end).

[Miracles]

...What isn't consistent and what people don't like is badly regressing Goku to a point where he's a forgetful buffoon that doesn't learn or remember anything he was taught, mastered, and improved on over the course of his life just to give Roshi some shine at the character's expense, that's bad storytelling...

If Goku remembered his teachings, he would of tapped into UI during Whis explanation on it himself. Which resembled his past principles. This was the whole point of Roshi reminding Goku. So it's not a regression or inconsistency but a continued plot point.

How would Roshi even know what was taught to Goku beyond Korin? Roshi's knowledge should but go so far, since he hasn't trained with or experienced the type of training Goku's received in the first place.

Did you not read that Karin was also in the teaching principles pertaining to UI? All the god's teachings were related.

[Rakurai]

OMG Toppo and Dyspo not being able to jump that small gap was hilarious. Couldn't Toppo just throw Dyspo towards the stage? The way that the second, third and fourth (the cyborg dude that was knocked by Roshi) strongest warriors of U11 were defeated reminded me of Hanna Barbera's cartoonish villains.

You'd think Toppo being the 2nd antagonist would've gotten something but nope, just blown away by Vegeta powering up as if he were a Yamcha or Raditz. Toyotaro did an amazing job on the Black arc so it's a shame to see such a drop in quality now. Hopefully things will pick up again once he gets to Broly as I've read that's one of his best characters so hopefully his work will be as well.

Nappa was the secondary antagonist of the Saiyan saga and went down like he was low-level trash against his own companion.

Ginyu was the second most powerful after Frieza and we never even got to see him fight properly. Humiliated by Krillin in Goku's very own body, no less.

Dabura was the second most powerful after Buu and he got the Nappa treatment but worse, he wasn't even worth looking at by Babidi after Buu was resurrected.

Not sure how Toppo's role fared worse against these villains, he wasn't treated like fodder the entire time. Especially since his demise was important to the characterization of Jiren.

Really, the way that Toei handled the ToP felt more like One Piece than it did Dragon Ball, with all the villains getting their own dedicated chapter/episode to show their stuff as part of character fanservice. That's my gripe with the anime, we didn't need that, we just needed a story that feels more natural and not fanservice-like.

[sintzu]

Nappa was the secondary antagonist of the Saiyan saga and went down like he was low-level trash against his own companion. Ginyu was the second most powerful after Frieza and we never even got to see him fight properly. Humiliated by Krillin in Goku's very own body, no less. Dabura was the second most powerful after Buu and he got the Nappa treatment but worse, he wasn't even worth looking at by Babidi after Buu was resurrected. Not sure how Toppo's role fared worse against these villains, he wasn't treated like fodder the entire time. Especially since his demise was important to the characterization of Jiren.

Really, the way that Toei handled the ToP felt more like One Piece than it did Dragon Ball, with all the villains getting their own dedicated chapter/episode to show their stuff as part of character fanservice. That's my gripe with the anime, we didn't need that.

Both Nappa and Ginyu caused major damage before their deaths, especially Nappa killing Piccolo and Tien who at the time were very, very strong fighters. I do agree that Dabura was underutilized and could've been handled much better.

We did need that and if anything we didn't get enough. If they were going to introduce all these characters then the least they could do was use them. I may not have agreed with how Toei handled everything but at least they tried to give everyone some screen time. Before the manga started the tournament I knew it couldn't give 80 characters relevant screen time as it's simply too much for the format but I did expect a handful to be treated just as good if not better than the anime but it couldn't even do that.

[HeroR]

OMG Toppo and Dyspo not being able to jump that small gap was hilarious. Couldn't Toppo just throw Dyspo towards the stage? The way that the second, third and fourth (the cyborg dude that was knocked by Roshi) strongest warriors of U11 were defeated reminded me of Hanna Barbera's cartoonish villains.

You'd think Toppo being the 2nd antagonist would've gotten something but nope, just blown away by Vegeta powering up as if he were a Yamcha or Raditz. Toyotaro did an amazing job on the Black arc so it's a shame to see such a drop in quality now. Hopefully things will pick up again once he gets to Broly as I've read that's one of his best characters so hopefully his work will be as well.

Nappa was the secondary antagonist of the Saiyan saga and went down like he was low-level trash against his own companion.

Ginyu was the second most powerful after Frieza and we never even got to see him fight properly. Humiliated by Krillin in Goku's very own body, no less.

Dabura was the second most powerful after Buu and he got the Nappa treatment but worse, he wasn't even worth looking at by Babidi after Buu was resurrected.

Not sure how Toppo's role fared worse against these villains, he wasn't treated like fodder the entire time. Especially since his demise was important to the characterization of Jiren.

Really, the way that Toei handled the ToP felt more like One Piece than it did Dragon Ball, with all the villains getting their own dedicated chapter/episode to show their stuff as part of character fanservice. That's my gripe with the anime, we didn't need that, we just needed a story that feels more natural and not fanservice-like.

And that’s a bad thing? One Piece is much better written show than all of Z. Given characters spotlight instead of tossing them in the trash when they’re not needed anymore isn’t a negative or ‘fan-service’. It gives a character depth, something Z lack a lot of the time.

[supersaiyanZero]

You'd think Toppo being the 2nd antagonist would've gotten something but nope, just blown away by Vegeta powering up as if he were a Yamcha or Raditz. Toyotaro did an amazing job on the Black arc so it's a shame to see such a drop in quality now. Hopefully things will pick up again once he gets to Broly as I've read that's one of his best characters so hopefully his work will be as well.

Nappa was the secondary antagonist of the Saiyan saga and went down like he was low-level trash against his own companion.

Ginyu was the second most powerful after Frieza and we never even got to see him fight properly. Humiliated by Krillin in Goku's very own body, no less.

Dabura was the second most powerful after Buu and he got the Nappa treatment but worse, he wasn't even worth looking at by Babidi after Buu was resurrected.

Not sure how Toppo's role fared worse against these villains, he wasn't treated like fodder the entire time. Especially since his demise was important to the characterization of Jiren.

Really, the way that Toei handled the ToP felt more like One Piece than it did Dragon Ball, with all the villains getting their own dedicated chapter/episode to show their stuff as part of character fanservice. That's my gripe with the anime, we didn't need that, we just needed a story that feels more natural and not fanservice-like.

And that’s a bad thing? One Piece is much better written show than all of Z. Given characters spotlight instead of tossing them in the trash when they’re not needed anymore isn’t a negative or ‘fan-service’. It gives a character depth, something Z lack a lot of the time.

Only if its done in a meaningful way. In Super it was fan service for the sake of fan service, just incredibly masturbatory, appealing to the lowest common denominator. Comparing the ToP to One Piece is an absolute joke.

[prince212]

I don’t know how you guys get to the point of compare t.o.p with one piece , but it’s so wrong
Over 80 episodes are needed to do the t.o.p arc in one piece fabulous building up characters style .