Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Miracles
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:27 pm

Shaddy wrote:Why is this silly misconception still a topic of discussion?
Image
Beautiful. No retcon then.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:48 pm

PFM18 wrote:We don't actually know for certain that anything has been screwed up yet. People are just being dramatic and pessimistic as per usual
Right. It's like people haven't learned from every time they exploded from episode summaries of DBS, NEPs etc.

It wasn't long until I saw a "my childhood ruined!" comment pop up. :roll:

People are allowed to be this vitriolic to something they haven't seen yet, and I get accused of not being a true DB fan because I hate the yellow SS. It's why discussing something in this fandom isn't worth it. This is Resurrection F all over again but 10x worse.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Daisetsu » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:56 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
PFM18 wrote:We don't actually know for certain that anything has been screwed up yet. People are just being dramatic and pessimistic as per usual
Right. It's like people haven't learned from every time they exploded from episode summaries of DBS, NEPs etc.
Yeah, this is the very reason the mods have been locking the DBS manga thread every month.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:23 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:We don't actually know for certain that anything has been screwed up yet. People are just being dramatic and pessimistic as per usual
With how disappointed people have been with many of the things to come out of modern Dragon Ball you really shouldn’t be surprised
I can't say I am surprised. If the last two arcs are any evidence, it doesn't really matter what the product is, people will still complain about it. I don't recall who, but somebody had something in their signature akin to "It doesn't matter who wins, either way people will complain about power levels." And that rings true with not just power levels, but anything DB related.
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
PFM18 wrote:We don't actually know for certain that anything has been screwed up yet. People are just being dramatic and pessimistic as per usual
Right. It's like people haven't learned from every time they exploded from episode summaries of DBS, NEPs etc.

It wasn't long until I saw a "my childhood ruined!" comment pop up. :roll:

People are allowed to be this vitriolic to something they haven't seen yet, and I get accused of not being a true DB fan because I hate the yellow SS. It's why discussing something in this fandom isn't worth it. This is Resurrection F all over again but 10x worse.
When people thought from the NEP preview that Vegeta was beating Jiren, or that Vegeta was going to get rung out early on because in the NEP it looked like he was falling, etc etc. Frankly, it is fairly likely that everything that people are complaining about being the case, may not even actually come to fruition in the actual movie.

But yeah I mean every DB fan is contractually obligated to LOVE the original SSJ! :roll: Otherwise, you're obviously not a true fan!
Miracles wrote:
Shaddy wrote:Why is this silly misconception still a topic of discussion?
Beautiful. No retcon then.
Yeah, If it is going to be adapting Minus that strictly, then we don't really have to worry about Vegeta's age or any potential retcon regarding his age. I think that is why part of the tagline was "3 Saiyans born around the same time" instead of "born at the same time."

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:29 pm

I think what IS valid in terms of people's complaints is the idea of Toriyama and the other series creators flagrantly disregarding the idea of established stone-set continuity.

Now, I don't personally believe that their intent is to intentionally disrespect the established continuity; far from it, they seem to genuinely believe they're adding to it.

However, the fear is very real that this mindset might get out of hand if the big T's feel that the established stories could do with adjustments later down the line for the sake of a more "interesting" story. Basically, the fear of the George Lucas effect, the fear of the big wigs walking over the idea of keeping what came before set in stone in lieu of simply entertaining; in essence, trampling over the idea of established and unchanging lore.

We're not at that point yet, but there ARE parallels, and I believe folks are valid in voicing concerns at the possibility of this kind of thing becoming more prevalent; we want good entertaining stories, yes, but we ALSO want reliable backstory that won't be changed for the simple sake of changing things up.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by nato25 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:28 pm

Miracles wrote:
Shaddy wrote:Why is this silly misconception still a topic of discussion?
Image
Beautiful. No retcon then.
@animeNation101 hopefully this is the correct way it's being interpreted! Maybe my theory about the capsule being at an earlier time wasn't wrong after all! But I'll remain skeptical coz that wording in the trailer is not a good sign.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by TheMikado » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:58 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:I think what IS valid in terms of people's complaints is the idea of Toriyama and the other series creators flagrantly disregarding the idea of established stone-set continuity.

Now, I don't personally believe that their intent is to intentionally disrespect the established continuity; far from it, they seem to genuinely believe they're adding to it.

However, the fear is very real that this mindset might get out of hand if the big T's feel that the established stories could do with adjustments later down the line for the sake of a more "interesting" story. Basically, the fear of the George Lucas effect, the fear of the big wigs walking over the idea of keeping what came before set in stone in lieu of simply entertaining; in essence, trampling over the idea of established and unchanging lore.

We're not at that point yet, but there ARE parallels, and I believe folks are valid in voicing concerns at the possibility of this kind of thing becoming more prevalent; we want good entertaining stories, yes, but we ALSO want reliable backstory that won't be changed for the simple sake of changing things up.
There’s always a progression. And just like George Lucus when the community starts putting things on a pedestal and claiming canon from the “original” author we get ourselves in trouble.

If we are looking at the Star Wars example we could easily get to a point where we get Toei or Toriyama or somebody states certain aspects are “removed” from canon.

I argue we’re well on our way there. They’ve already shown a lack of respect for characterization, power scaling, etc. It’s only a matter of time. We’ve already had small adjustments like Future Trunks and his hair or Roshis secret training etc. Or Beerus involvement with the saiyans destruction. The longer this carries on with a group which isn’t respecting the marterial that preceded it, it’s only a matter of time before we get a fandom dividing change occur to the franchise.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ssj3kakarot » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:30 pm

The ONLY thing that is undeniable changed for the worse, without question or retort, is the character design change for King Vegeta! I mean, is his name King Hector or something? He looks like a choad compared to the anime King Vegeta. :lol:
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:50 pm

ssj3kakarot wrote:The ONLY thing that is undeniable changed for the worse, without question or retort, is the character design change for King Vegeta! I mean, is his name King Hector or something? He looks like a choad compared to the anime King Vegeta. :lol:
anime King Vegeta was a clone of normal Vegeta with facial hair! The new one distinguishes himself from our Vegeta and looks more royal

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by MainJPW » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:12 am

ssj3kakarot wrote:The ONLY thing that is undeniable changed for the worse, without question or retort, is the character design change for King Vegeta! I mean, is his name King Hector or something? He looks like a choad compared to the anime King Vegeta. :lol:
He looks more distinct from Vegeta with those cheek bones and different nose shape. Ngl, I also like the added touch of his beard resembling Vegeta’s.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by precita » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:14 am

If Bardock doesn't put on his classic armor and confront Freeza, his character is ruined. Shame because he's in Fighter Z with his old design.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by SSJgogeto » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:25 am

That armor never made sense to me, so I'm happy he wasn't using it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:29 am

precita wrote:If Bardock doesn't put on his classic armor and confront Freeza, his character is ruined. Shame because he's in Fighter Z with his old design.
FighterZ Bardock is Bandai Bardock. And you can complain all you want about Toriyama Bardock missing the point of what made Toei Bardock interesting, but Bandai Bardock takes the opposite approach a million times worse by making him a super-strong Gary Sue who travels through time and gets every Super Saiyan form. Also he's a massive tierscrub and his 5LLL vacuums like a Dyson, but that's another topic.

I have no real attachment to any version of Bardock's story, so I don't care one way or the other what we get. But fixating on the image of him as a badass is what led to him being soured by spin-offs for so long. I'll give Toriyama the benefit of the doubt on this one even if he is just Jor-El with a cool scar.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ssj3kakarot » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:25 am

PFM18 wrote:
ssj3kakarot wrote:The ONLY thing that is undeniable changed for the worse, without question or retort, is the character design change for King Vegeta! I mean, is his name King Hector or something? He looks like a choad compared to the anime King Vegeta. :lol:
anime King Vegeta was a clone of normal Vegeta with facial hair! The new one distinguishes himself from our Vegeta and looks more royal
Definitely doesn't look more royal. Thats garbage.

You must be new to Dragon ball, friend.

Look at the Son family. Bardock, Goku, and Goten. They are ALL the same. It doesn't detract from anything. They aren't clones, they are family. It's called genetics.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:11 am

ssj3kakarot wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
ssj3kakarot wrote:The ONLY thing that is undeniable changed for the worse, without question or retort, is the character design change for King Vegeta! I mean, is his name King Hector or something? He looks like a choad compared to the anime King Vegeta. :lol:
anime King Vegeta was a clone of normal Vegeta with facial hair! The new one distinguishes himself from our Vegeta and looks more royal
Definitely doesn't look more royal. Thats garbage.

You must be new to Dragon ball, friend.

Look at the Son family. Bardock, Goku, and Goten. They are ALL the same. It doesn't detract from anything. They aren't clones, they are family. It's called genetics.
uhhh yeah it does. Goten is literally a small version of Goku in an attempt to capture the charm of the kid Goku from the original Dragon Ball. And yes exactly, it IS genetics. So they should look similar, just as the new King Vegeta and our Vegeta look. They should not look almost identical with a beard.

And no, I am not new to Dragon Ball lol.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Shaddy » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:40 am

Imagine being the guy who says anyone who thinks family members in Dragon Ball can look different is "new to the series" when literally the first villain we meet in Z looks nothing like his mother, father or brother.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Pokesamus217 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:33 am

TheMikado wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:I think what IS valid in terms of people's complaints is the idea of Toriyama and the other series creators flagrantly disregarding the idea of established stone-set continuity.

Now, I don't personally believe that their intent is to intentionally disrespect the established continuity; far from it, they seem to genuinely believe they're adding to it.

However, the fear is very real that this mindset might get out of hand if the big T's feel that the established stories could do with adjustments later down the line for the sake of a more "interesting" story. Basically, the fear of the George Lucas effect, the fear of the big wigs walking over the idea of keeping what came before set in stone in lieu of simply entertaining; in essence, trampling over the idea of established and unchanging lore.

We're not at that point yet, but there ARE parallels, and I believe folks are valid in voicing concerns at the possibility of this kind of thing becoming more prevalent; we want good entertaining stories, yes, but we ALSO want reliable backstory that won't be changed for the simple sake of changing things up.
There’s always a progression. And just like George Lucus when the community starts putting things on a pedestal and claiming canon from the “original” author we get ourselves in trouble.

If we are looking at the Star Wars example we could easily get to a point where we get Toei or Toriyama or somebody states certain aspects are “removed” from canon.

I argue we’re well on our way there. They’ve already shown a lack of respect for characterization, power scaling, etc. It’s only a matter of time. We’ve already had small adjustments like Future Trunks and his hair or Roshis secret training etc. Or Beerus involvement with the saiyans destruction. The longer this carries on with a group which isn’t respecting the marterial that preceded it, it’s only a matter of time before we get a fandom dividing change occur to the franchise.
This is the kind of thing that’ll inevitably happen when a story goes on long enough. Things that happened before are changed or removed for one reason or another. Hell the old DBZ was heavily guilty of this to. Goku and Piccolo are actually aliens, Ki based martial arts are considered a myth again, and the complete mess that was the Android/Cell saga. This is something that all long running series have to face at some point. Hell, look at comic books.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by MainJPW » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:51 pm

Shaddy wrote:Imagine being the guy who says anyone who thinks family members in Dragon Ball can look different is "new to the series" when literally the first villain we meet in Z looks nothing like his mother, father or brother.
Always thought Raditz looked more like Vegeta, same eyes and widows peak.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Rakurai » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:24 pm

This is why I stopped caring about trying to define an official "canon" a long time ago. For a series like DB, it's muda muda.
Bebi Hatchiyack wrote: Well depend on culture I wonder if in Japan they still say akanbo (baby in japanese) for an infant of 3 years old. In France for some people you are still a baby at 3 years so there it is. I think it's more a matter of perspective. :think:
Not as far as I know. My Japanese language instructor says that any form of aka-chan or akanbo indicates baby, i.e. before they're even able to walk. A 3-year old, not likely. A toddler like what we're shown in Minus would be a variation of 子供 (kodomo) or 子 (ko).

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Xeztin » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:23 pm

Bardock dies either way, confronting Freeza or not, the end game is the same. I'm sure the Saiyan's just don't sit there while Freeza is blowing up the planet if they know about it. They are too prideful for that, though even if they didn't do a thing, it's the same result.

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