Freeza is a good character now?
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- JohnnyCashKami
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Freeza is a good character now?
Seems so, he's sort of friends with Goku and no longer the villain he once was but are we supposed to forget Freeza almost exterminated the entire Saiyan race? Goku and all Saiyans should want him dead, or at least in Hell for all eternity.
Another Modern DB story change that doesn't go along with Classic DB.
Another Modern DB story change that doesn't go along with Classic DB.
Re: Freeza is a good character now?
...Friends? What are you talking about? He clearly still doesn't like Goku, and has gone back to his evil ways with universal conquest. He's certainly not good now.
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- JohnnyCashKami
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Re: Freeza is a good character now?
He appeared to team up with Freeza on Super. Freeza looks as though it's the only 'villain' that TOEI/Toriyama ever use now for everything, or an unoriginal, bland and classless visually intriguing character, i.e. Jiren.Mewzard wrote:...Friends? What are you talking about? He clearly still doesn't like Goku, and has gone back to his evil ways with universal conquest. He's certainly not good now.
Not sure calling straight out Freeza as a villain is the right thing but an anti-hero instead from how things are nowadays on the franchise. And yes, I've seen the 2nd trailer of DBS Movie 1 but still feels like he's been changed from the evil monster he once was.
/imo
- SupremeKai25
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Re: Freeza is a good character now?
Freeza is still very much evil, don't be mistaken. He literally states upon his resurrection that he does not intend to stop his evil ways. And we all know what Freeza's evil ways are. He invades many cities, he enslaves their people, he doesn't care about anyone and just wants to continue his business based on slavery and death and retain his position as self-proclaimed Emperor of the Universe.
But, as much as I hate to admit that, It's also true that if Freeza hadn't helped in the Tournament, Jiren would have won. I suppose that this redeemed him in the eyes of everyone.
The thing is, Goku does not care about justice. He is not someone like Zamasu who is willing to go to extreme lengths to uphold justice. He literally tells Jiren that he is not a hero of justice. Therefore, I doubt that he truly cares about justice for the Saiyans and for all the other innocents who suffered at the hands of Freeza. Goku is not noble.
Freeza is still evil though. He might play the role of the anti-hero in the future, like in the Tournament, but he is still very morally evil.
But, as much as I hate to admit that, It's also true that if Freeza hadn't helped in the Tournament, Jiren would have won. I suppose that this redeemed him in the eyes of everyone.
The thing is, Goku does not care about justice. He is not someone like Zamasu who is willing to go to extreme lengths to uphold justice. He literally tells Jiren that he is not a hero of justice. Therefore, I doubt that he truly cares about justice for the Saiyans and for all the other innocents who suffered at the hands of Freeza. Goku is not noble.
Freeza is still evil though. He might play the role of the anti-hero in the future, like in the Tournament, but he is still very morally evil.
Re: Freeza is a good character now?
You'd have to be naive or delusional if you think Freeza is a "good guy" now. He only teamed up with Goku for the ToP because he would get erased from existence if doesn't. Freeza is a psychopath, people like him are naturally incapable of reforming (nor did anyone expect him to). He didn't help the Z-team in the ToP out of any real altruism and such. He was only motivated be self-interest (to be brought back to life and rule the universe again).JohnnyCashKami wrote:He appeared to team up with Freeza on Super. Freeza looks as though it's the only 'villain' that TOEI/Toriyama ever use now for everything, or an unoriginal, bland and classless visually intriguing character, i.e. Jiren.Mewzard wrote:...Friends? What are you talking about? He clearly still doesn't like Goku, and has gone back to his evil ways with universal conquest. He's certainly not good now.
Not sure calling straight out Freeza as a villain is the right thing but an anti-hero instead from how things are nowadays on the franchise. And yes, I've seen the 2nd trailer of DBS Movie 1 but still feels like he's been changed from the evil monster he once was.
/imo
Just because a villain chooses to work with a hero doesn't mean they are turning good.
- Polyphase Avatron
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Re: Freeza is a good character now?
Spoiler:
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147
Re: Freeza is a good character now?
Is he a good guy? No.
Is Super attempting to groom him into the next anti-hero because he's a popular character?
Most likely.
sigh.
Is Super attempting to groom him into the next anti-hero because he's a popular character?
Most likely.
sigh.
Re: Freeza is a good character now?
No. He's still a bad guy but only helps the Z gang when there's a benefit for him.
Last edited by Tian on Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Hellspawn28
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Re: Freeza is a good character now?
He's still a bad guy. He is probably going to leave the Earth alone since he knows that he can't win against UI Goku and they have Beerus on their side.
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- Kunzait_83
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Re: Freeza is a good character now?
Because the Saiyans were such a lovely and friendly bunch of cuddly teddy bears who were valiant, noble protectors of goodness and decency whom the audience is meant to cheer on and root for, and not at all a bunch of mass murdering, marauding psychopathic space barbarians who were basically an utterly hellish, genocidal terror to virtually anyone they came across.JohnnyCashKami wrote:but are we supposed to forget Freeza almost exterminated the entire Saiyan race? Goku and all Saiyans should want him dead, or at least in Hell for all eternity.
Minus only retconned Bardock and Gine: the rest of the Saiyans are still the same murderous lackeys of Freeza's amry as they ever were.
And because Goku, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks (either version of him) care so deeply about the Saiyan race's fate that their death is clearly THE main motivating reason for the animosity between the Z Warriors and Freeza, and NOT the fact that Freeza and his men have killed countless trillions of actually innocent people and have tried to kill Goku and his entire cast of friends and family several times now: fuck ALL that, clearly Goku and his family are mostly outraged at Freeza over the deaths of a nameless, faceless mass of brutal, bloodthirsty psycho killers that Freeza wiped out decades ago (after he'd employed them for years beforehand) and who were in fact the REAL heroes of the Dragon Ball saga all along, and not at all the thuggish underlings of Freeza who killed and slaughtered endless swathes of innocent people in his name and on his orders (and sometimes just for fun).
Fixed that for you.zarmack wrote:You'd have to be naive or delusional if you think Vegeta is a "good guy" now. He only teamed up with Goku, Gohan, and Kuririn because he wanted to get the Namekian Dragon Balls away from Freeza to use for himself. Vegeta is a psychopath, people like him are naturally incapable of reforming (nor did anyone expect him to). He didn't help the Z-team on Namek out of any real altruism and such. He was only motivated by self-interest (to wish for immortality, kill Freeza, and rule the universe).
Just because a villain chooses to work with a hero doesn't mean they are turning good.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
Re: Freeza is a good character now?
Not gonna lie this makes me hate friezaPolyphase Avatron wrote:Spoiler:
Re: Freeza is a good character now?
You do know he will be in the Broly movie right? Also goku can't use ultra insitnct at will.Hellspawn28 wrote:He's still a bad guy. He is probably going to leave the Earth alone since he knows that he can't win against UI Goku and they have Beerus on their side.
Re: Freeza is a good character now?
1. Goku and others actually started caring about the saiyan race after Vegeta's dying speech on Namek. That's when Goku started to embrace his racial pride:Kunzait_83 wrote:Because the Saiyans were such a lovely and friendly bunch of cuddly teddy bears who were valiant, noble protectors of goodness and decency whom the audience is meant to cheer on and root for, and not at all a bunch of mass murdering, marauding psychopathic space barbarians who were basically an utterly hellish, genocidal terror to virtually anyone they came across.JohnnyCashKami wrote:but are we supposed to forget Freeza almost exterminated the entire Saiyan race? Goku and all Saiyans should want him dead, or at least in Hell for all eternity.
Minus only retconned Bardock and Gine: the rest of the Saiyans are still the same murderous lackeys of Freeza's amry as they ever were.
And because Goku, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks (either version of him) care so deeply about the Saiyan race's fate that their death is clearly THE main motivating reason for the animosity between the Z Warriors and Freeza, and NOT the fact that Freeza and his men have killed countless trillions of actually innocent people and have tried to kill Goku and his entire cast of friends and family several times now: fuck ALL that, clearly Goku and his family are mostly outraged at Freeza over the deaths of a nameless, faceless mass of brutal, bloodthirsty psycho killers that Freeza wiped out decades ago (after he'd employed them for years beforehand) and who were in fact the REAL heroes of the Dragon Ball saga all along, and not at all the thuggish underlings of Freeza who killed and slaughtered endless swathes of innocent people in his name and on his orders (and sometimes just for fun).
Fixed that for you.zarmack wrote:You'd have to be naive or delusional if you think Vegeta is a "good guy" now. He only teamed up with Goku, Gohan, and Kuririn because he wanted to get the Namekian Dragon Balls away from Freeza to use for himself. Vegeta is a psychopath, people like him are naturally incapable of reforming (nor did anyone expect him to). He didn't help the Z-team on Namek out of any real altruism and such. He was only motivated by self-interest (to wish for immortality, kill Freeza, and rule the universe).
Just because a villain chooses to work with a hero doesn't mean they are turning good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aovcg4CgaBI
So your rant is debunked there .
Also, Goku seemed pretty interested in them some more after meeting Cabba in the Champa arc.
2. False analogy bro. Freeza is a Complete Monster, Vegeta (even at his worst) never was:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... DragonBall
Since he's a Psychopath, Freeza is written in a way to make him psychologically impossible to reform by any means, which was the point of his last moments on Namek and all of Revival of F. It would be just as stupid to expect Zamasu or Cell to become a good guy.
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Re: Freeza is a good character now?
Freeza is still an evil asshole. He's just become much more cunning and far more tolerable of certain situations that he'd previously lose his cool over, if it can benefit him.
Spoiler:
Re: Freeza is a good character now?
Goku still thought the Saiyans were scumbags. Freeza brings up Kunzait's exact point, that the Saiyans were a bunch of ruthless thugs responsible for killing of innocents, Goku replies with "That's why we perished."zarmack wrote:1. Goku and others actually started caring about the saiyan race after Vegeta's dying speech on Namek. That's when Goku started to embrace his racial pride:Kunzait_83 wrote:Because the Saiyans were such a lovely and friendly bunch of cuddly teddy bears who were valiant, noble protectors of goodness and decency whom the audience is meant to cheer on and root for, and not at all a bunch of mass murdering, marauding psychopathic space barbarians who were basically an utterly hellish, genocidal terror to virtually anyone they came across.JohnnyCashKami wrote:but are we supposed to forget Freeza almost exterminated the entire Saiyan race? Goku and all Saiyans should want him dead, or at least in Hell for all eternity.
Minus only retconned Bardock and Gine: the rest of the Saiyans are still the same murderous lackeys of Freeza's amry as they ever were.
And because Goku, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks (either version of him) care so deeply about the Saiyan race's fate that their death is clearly THE main motivating reason for the animosity between the Z Warriors and Freeza, and NOT the fact that Freeza and his men have killed countless trillions of actually innocent people and have tried to kill Goku and his entire cast of friends and family several times now: fuck ALL that, clearly Goku and his family are mostly outraged at Freeza over the deaths of a nameless, faceless mass of brutal, bloodthirsty psycho killers that Freeza wiped out decades ago (after he'd employed them for years beforehand) and who were in fact the REAL heroes of the Dragon Ball saga all along, and not at all the thuggish underlings of Freeza who killed and slaughtered endless swathes of innocent people in his name and on his orders (and sometimes just for fun).
Fixed that for you.zarmack wrote:You'd have to be naive or delusional if you think Vegeta is a "good guy" now. He only teamed up with Goku, Gohan, and Kuririn because he wanted to get the Namekian Dragon Balls away from Freeza to use for himself. Vegeta is a psychopath, people like him are naturally incapable of reforming (nor did anyone expect him to). He didn't help the Z-team on Namek out of any real altruism and such. He was only motivated by self-interest (to wish for immortality, kill Freeza, and rule the universe).
Just because a villain chooses to work with a hero doesn't mean they are turning good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aovcg4CgaBI
So your rant is debunked there .
Also, Goku seemed pretty interested in them some more after meeting Cabba in the Champa arc.
2. False analogy bro. Freeza is a Complete Monster, Vegeta (even at his worst) never was:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... DragonBall
Since he's a Psychopath, Freeza is written in a way to make him psychologically impossible to reform by any means, which was the point of his last moments on Namek and all of Revival of F. It would be just as stupid to expect Zamasu or Cell to become a good guy.
He felt proud of his heritage after Vegeta died but evidently he didn't care all that much about the Saiyans themselves.
Re: Freeza is a good character now?
kemuri07 wrote:Is he a good guy? No.
Is Super attempting to groom him into the next anti-hero because he's a popular character?
Most likely.
sigh.
All this means is that Frieza is the next:Lord Beerus wrote:Freeza is still an evil asshole. He's just become much more cunning and far more tolerable of certain situations that he'd previously lose his cool over, if it can benefit him.
Yamcha
Tien
Piccolo
Vegeta
Android 16
Majin Buu
... etc etc etc... This trope has kinda run it's course by now.
- Bebi Hatchiyack
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Re: Freeza is a good character now?
Frieza just need his Gohan (perhaps Pan) to turn him good
Saiya-jin me, watashi ha kisama wo koroshimasu
Re: Freeza is a good character now?
I hate this so much.Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:Frieza just need his Gohan (perhaps Pan) to turn him good
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Re: Freeza is a good character now?
You hate this because it's so truekemuri07 wrote:I hate this so much.Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:Frieza just need his Gohan (perhaps Pan) to turn him good
Saiya-jin me, watashi ha kisama wo koroshimasu
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Re: Freeza is a good character now?
Frieza needs a Bulma not a GohanBebi Hatchiyack wrote:You hate this because it's so truekemuri07 wrote:I hate this so much.Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:Frieza just need his Gohan (perhaps Pan) to turn him good