Unpopular DB opinions
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20286
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
What are you talking about regarding animation? I thought the artwork from the 23rd TB through the Saiyan arc was DB at his best. I also have a soft spot for the more rounded early DB art style.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
1. Its overrated because many anime snobs love to dogmatically insist that Early DB was the best using many flawed arguments and double standards. It gets to the point where many of them spread the lie that Early DB is more popular and influential in Japan than Z is (which is clearly false to any non-biased person).MasenkoHA wrote:If anything its underrated as Dragon Ball fans especially in the West act like everything begins and ends with DBZ and maybe Super because its current. Even Dragon Ball Kai’s attitude toward it was basically “eh not important”zarmack wrote:Early DB (Pre-Raditz) is extremely overrated.
Such as? If we’re comparing animes it has far better pacing, less repetitive writing and does more with its cast and world than later serieswhen it features many of the same writing flaws of the future installments
It’s the oldest series so its gonna look rougher. And yet I still disagree since Super is really cheap and ugly looking. And DBZ isn’t much better on this front than OG Dragon Ball as GT isn’t much better animation wise than DBZon average the worst animation and art design out of all 4 series
Path to Power was the only time I ever thought “Wow this animation is really good” and I guess that technically qualifies as GT but it looks better than the GT series
It has a supporting cast.a mostly forgettable supporting cast
2. Less repetitive I'd give you that, but no less contrived and plot hole ridden than any of the other shows.
3. There were plenty of mid-to-late 80s TV anime and manga that had better animation and art than Early DB did, so the "for its time" excuse doesn't work in this case. And the best animated and drawn episodes of Z/Super/GT far surpasses anything we see in Early DB.
4. Outside of the tournament arcs (except Yamcha who was always a joke since day 1), the supporting cast beside Bulma was never particularly useful in Early DB, nor did any of them receive any additional character development after joining Goku's side. Hell, Krillin was more useful in the Saiyan & Namek arcs of Z than he ever was in Early DB.
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20286
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
So how interesting a character is is based on how much they help take down the bad guy? Muten Roshi didn't take down any of the big bads, but him stepping down during the 22nd TB is as affecting as any moment in all of DB. Besides Vegeta, most of the characters don't get much development. I know you'll say Gohan, but his is erratic.
DB has some of the absolute best fights in all of DB.
Given how many people don't have any intention of watching DB for some inane reason, I'd say the number of people who are snobs about DB pales in comparison to those that are snobby about DBZ.
As for the animation, the art style these days is so ugly and plastic looking. DB at its worst blows it away.
But somehow still the worst of the 3 or 4?but no less contrived and plot hole ridden than any of the other shows.
DB has some of the absolute best fights in all of DB.
Given how many people don't have any intention of watching DB for some inane reason, I'd say the number of people who are snobs about DB pales in comparison to those that are snobby about DBZ.
As for the animation, the art style these days is so ugly and plastic looking. DB at its worst blows it away.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Most “anime snobs” are dismissive of the Dragon Ball franchise as a whole. What double standards are the pro-OG Dragon Ball camp using?zarmack wrote:
1. Its overrated because many anime snobs love to dogmatically insist that Early DB was the best using many flawed arguments and double standards. It gets to the point where many of them spread the lie that Early DB is more popular and influential in Japan than Z is (which is clearly false to any non-biased person).
I do agree the lie some spread that it’s more popular in Japan is annoying. It’s quite obvious that’s not true given the preferential treatment DBZ recieves in Japan. To be fair I haven’t seen this argument nearly as much since circa Battle of the Gods
.
And that mid to late 80s tv anime also probably had better animation and art than DBZ and maybe even DBGT because it really didn’t get much noticably better.3. There were plenty of mid-to-late 80s TV anime and manga that had better animation and art than Early DB did, so the "for its time" excuse doesn't work in this case. And the best animated and drawn episodes of Z/Super/GT far surpasses anything we see in Early DB.
And again Super just looks so cheap and half assed. Dragon Ball at worse looks standards 80s anime fare
Super is a huge step backwards.
And DBZ and DBGT are only better in the sense they damn well should show some improvement over the 100+ episodes working on the show. There’s still no giant leap in animation quality
Because of his crippling fear of pretty girls?4.Outside of the tournament arcs (except Yamcha who was always a joke since day 1),
Yamucha was more useful in early Dragon Ball than any other period and was Goku’s first real challenge.
In DBZ he might as well of stayed dead after the Saiyajin saga.
I don’t know what requires a character to be “useful” this isn’t like DBZ where every major arc was “stop x bad guy”the supporting cast beside Bulma was never particularly useful in Early DB,
They had a mission in the Saiyajin and Namek arcs. In early Dragon Ball his role was Goku’s martial arts rival and later friend which he did fine. You’re comparing apples to orange.. Hell, Krillin was more useful in the Saiyan & Namek arcs of Z than he ever was in Early DB.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
You are pointing words in my mouth. I never said that is what makes them interesting. I said that characters in Early DB would stop developing once they join Goku's crew. Tien being the biggest example, after the 22th TB he has been a nothing character.ABED wrote:So how interesting a character is is based on how much they help take down the bad guy? Muten Roshi didn't take down any of the big bads, but him stepping down during the 22nd TB is as affecting as any moment in all of DB. Besides Vegeta, most of the characters don't get much development. I know you'll say Gohan, but his is erratic.
Never said it was. Its easily better than GT overall.ABED wrote: But somehow still the worst of the 3 or 4?
People who are snobby about Early DB tend to be snobby about the whole franchise. I've never seen a pretentious anime fan or DB fanboy throw Early DB under the bus while praising Z. Especially during the early to mid 2000s.ABED wrote:Given how many people don't have any intention of watching DB for some inane reason, I'd say the number of people who are snobs about DB pales in comparison to those that are snobby about DBZ.
That's a hyperbolic statement. Much of Early DB's art is as bad as modern Yamamuro's.ABED wrote:As for the animation, the art style these days is so ugly and plastic looking. DB at its worst blows it away.
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20286
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
First, it's putting, not pointing. Second, you wrote "he was more useful" so it wasn't a leap.
One of my biggest problems with DBZ is it overused taking Goku early on in the arc then waiting for him to come back to help take down the big bad. DB kept things fresh by changing things up constantly. The arcs were also on average much shorter.
I've seen it a lot. There have been people in this very forum who damn near refused to go back and watch DB. And far too many falsely claim DB is basically all like the very first arc.People who are snobby about Early DB tend to be snobby about the whole franchise. I've never seen a pretentious anime fan or DB fanboy throw Early DB under the bus while praising Z. Especially during the early to mid 2000s.
It's really not. I hate modern looking DB. There was a charm to the early chapters.That's a hyperbolic statement. Much of Early DB's art is as bad as modern Yamamuro's.
One of my biggest problems with DBZ is it overused taking Goku early on in the arc then waiting for him to come back to help take down the big bad. DB kept things fresh by changing things up constantly. The arcs were also on average much shorter.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
- Anime Kitten
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4272
- Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 3:53 pm
- Contact:
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
While the topic is on earlier vs later DB, I'm of the opinion that the entire series from beginning to end is fantastic all the way through. I never personally felt a quality drop (certainly not a drop in enjoyment, at least) during any point in the story, though that could just be my optimistic side talking.
I can't speak on GT as I haven't seen it in a long time nor in Japanese, but I would also add that I've enjoyed the majority of the franchise since the manga ended just as much as the manga itself. Sure, every installment in the franchise is flawed in some way or another; but I like to weigh the cons against the pros and decide which is heavier, i.e. if I can essentially "ignore" the flaws for the sake of enjoying it more. That's also why I hold the unpopular opinion that Super is just as good in its own way as the original series; that is, I think it's just as entertaining and enjoyable, albeit maybe Super goes about it in a different way.
I can't speak on GT as I haven't seen it in a long time nor in Japanese, but I would also add that I've enjoyed the majority of the franchise since the manga ended just as much as the manga itself. Sure, every installment in the franchise is flawed in some way or another; but I like to weigh the cons against the pros and decide which is heavier, i.e. if I can essentially "ignore" the flaws for the sake of enjoying it more. That's also why I hold the unpopular opinion that Super is just as good in its own way as the original series; that is, I think it's just as entertaining and enjoyable, albeit maybe Super goes about it in a different way.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
I don't have a problem with the conclusion ScrewAttack drew about Goku vs Superman. I think it appeals more to the way I look at things; I don't care about feats or fussing over internal logic, I'm more of a big-picture themes guy. When they say Goku could never beat Superman because Superman is meant to represent an exceptional ideal while Goku represents a constant strive toward self-improvement with the fallibility that comes with it, that makes sense to me. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I believe one of them has gone on record saying they overdid it, but at the time, that explanation made sense to me because it fits my sensibilities as a viewer. I'm not about to break out the graph paper and go "well, actually..."
By the same token, I've seen a lot of annoyance over the fact that Beerus was always out of Goku's reach despite the huge gains he made in Super. I personally like the idea of a character as a long-term goal for Goku to work towards, it fits well with the theme of self-improvement at the core of his character. So many characters get wasted because they just get surpassed automatically when the next arc rolls around, so having Beerus continue to be a factor right up until the end was a nice change. But I see people latch onto stuff like how Beerus was using 70 per cent of his power in the first fight and go "b..but Goku has gotten Super Saiyan Blue and can go Kaioken x 10 since then and still can't beat Beerus? He must've been lying! PLOT HOLE!!" And I just sigh. Like, it's such a shallow way to look at it in my opinion.
By the same token, I've seen a lot of annoyance over the fact that Beerus was always out of Goku's reach despite the huge gains he made in Super. I personally like the idea of a character as a long-term goal for Goku to work towards, it fits well with the theme of self-improvement at the core of his character. So many characters get wasted because they just get surpassed automatically when the next arc rolls around, so having Beerus continue to be a factor right up until the end was a nice change. But I see people latch onto stuff like how Beerus was using 70 per cent of his power in the first fight and go "b..but Goku has gotten Super Saiyan Blue and can go Kaioken x 10 since then and still can't beat Beerus? He must've been lying! PLOT HOLE!!" And I just sigh. Like, it's such a shallow way to look at it in my opinion.
- Mister_Popo
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1206
- Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:12 pm
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Anime Kitten wrote:While the topic is on earlier vs later DB i.e. if I can essentially "ignore" the flaws for the sake of enjoying it more. That's also why I hold the unpopular opinion that Super is just as good in its own way as the original series; that is, I think it's just as entertaining and enjoyable, albeit maybe Super goes about it in a different way.
That's a big part of the 'problem': people expect too much from it and keep feeling unhappy because they have high standards. If you keep it reasonably low and watch the new content with the eyes of a kid, just take it as it comes, it permits more enjoyment of the new content.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
I like Welcome to the Grand Tour. Also, Fight it Out is one of the best DB opening themes.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Bt3 did not age well and is a really mediocre game.
- sunsetshimmer
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2164
- Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
- Location: Poland/Equestria
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Xenoverse and FighterZ did nothing to be called best DB games. Especially FighterZ.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
For me, BT3 is too overrated. I prefer BT2.kudo6000 wrote:Bt3 did not age well and is a really mediocre game.
Check out some of my topics:
Nickelodeon & Nicktoons airings | List of "Pérolas"
Dragon Ball's Argentinian broadcast history
Nickelodeon & Nicktoons airings | List of "Pérolas"
Dragon Ball's Argentinian broadcast history
- GT_Goten10
- Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 266
- Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:46 pm
- Location: Germany
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
I agreeTian wrote:For me, BT3 is too overrated. I prefer BT2.kudo6000 wrote:Bt3 did not age well and is a really mediocre game.
GT Fighter
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
I'm late on responding to this, but how do you feel about the Kikuchi placement vs the Yamamoto score? And what do you think of Kai's voice acting being inferior to the original? Referring to the Japanese voice acting of course. Asking because I might re-watch Kai soon and I'm just getting some perspective.ABED wrote:The Kikuchi score placement in Kai is fine and people are overblowing how bad it is.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
I know this isn’t directed at me but from what little I watched of Japanese Kai I really didn’t notice a drop in acting quality from the cast.Forte224 wrote:I'm late on responding to this, but how do you feel about the Kikuchi placement vs the Yamamoto score? And what do you think of Kai's voice acting being inferior to the original? Referring to the Japanese voice acting of course. Asking because I might re-watch Kai soon and I'm just getting some perspective.ABED wrote:The Kikuchi score placement in Kai is fine and people are overblowing how bad it is.
I noticed a much greater difference in the Funi cast voice acting wise in Kai vs Z (for the better) than any difference in the Japanese cast.
I still prefer Kai in English because even though it carries over some of the inherent issues with the Japanese Kai its just so much better than the Z dub.
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20286
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
There's a noticeable drop in quality from Z to Kai with the exception of a few actors (e.g. Horikawa, Nakao).
I enjoyed the Yamamoto score. I don't have anything else to add besides that.
I enjoyed the Yamamoto score. I don't have anything else to add besides that.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
The only thing good about Kai is that is way short than Z, I didn't appreciate much the score and a few voice actors changes.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
There's a double standard with people complaining about Dragon Ball Minus overriding Bardock the Father of Goku, because I'm betting many of those people have no problem what so ever with the idea of Dragon Ball Super overriding Dragon Ball GT (the hate boner western fans have for GT is still very real). The Bardock special may have had more of a claim to canonicity due to Toriyama directly referencing it in the manga, but it was always a product of the anime first and foremost, and the manga reference was vague enough that Toriyama could still do his own thing with a prequel, so its canonicity was never solid. Now it has seemingly been discarded just like many other anime-only elements and many fans are rightly pissed off (for the record, I don't like Dragon Ball Minus either), but it's still a double standard. It's just people defending the stuff they like while bashing the stuff they don't like.
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20286
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Not seeing the issue here. Of course people will defend the stuff they enjoy and knock the stuff they don't.Majin Buu wrote:but it's still a double standard. It's just people defending the stuff they like while bashing the stuff they don't like.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.