Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Lord Frieza]

Broly's Full Power is a unique form to him (for now)

I hope this does not imply that the "green haired" form is going to be handed out to everyone and is actually an "exclusive" transformation

The line is already bs considering Kale has it. And while it maybe be small, i’d be really annoyed if Kale isn’t mentioned once in reference to Broly’s Full Power form in the movie

Well that depends on how you look at it. First Kale is from a whole other universe, so the fact she has the transformation has no bearing on what goes on in U7. Second while their forms are similur, there not identical either.

As for the LSS being born of sorrow, well Kale transformed the fist few times when she was on the verge of tears.

[AnimeNation101]

I hope this does not imply that the "green haired" form is going to be handed out to everyone and is actually an "exclusive" transformation

The line is already bs considering Kale has it. And while it maybe be small, i’d be really annoyed if Kale isn’t mentioned once in reference to Broly’s Full Power form in the movie

Kale isn't "everyone", i meant handed out like Super Saiyan is, i'd like for it to stay a genetic mutated form only.

Not what i said though. I’m saying the line is already invalid since, if anything, Kale had the form activated before Broly did. Unless Broly does it sometime between his life on Planet Vampa and the present. But either way, the power aint unique to Broly. But yeah, i do agree with your point aswell.

[AnimeNation101]

I hope this does not imply that the "green haired" form is going to be handed out to everyone and is actually an "exclusive" transformation

The line is already bs considering Kale has it. And while it maybe be small, i’d be really annoyed if Kale isn’t mentioned once in reference to Broly’s Full Power form in the movie

Well that depends on how you look at it. First Kale is from a whole other universe, so the fact she has the transformation has no bearing on what goes on in U7. Second while their forms are similur, there not identical either.

As for the LSS being born of sorrow, well Kale transformed the fist few times when she was on the verge of tears.

Well, who’s to say they aren’t identical? As of now, there have been no differnces between Broly’s “Full Power” form and Kale’s SSBerserk form. I think its fair for us to call them one and the same until further notice.

[HeroR]

The sections breakdown were in the Funi dub, not the Japanese run.

I wasn't referring to that but how the Buu saga involved Gohan's time at School, the World Martial Arts Tournament, the stuff with Babidi and Dabura, then the different versions of Buu.

I wouldn't mind a much longer saga in Super just so long as it wasn't all just the one thing.

That was all still the 'Buu Saga'. They weren't divided up like that in the manga.

[Lord Frieza]

The line is already bs considering Kale has it. And while it maybe be small, i’d be really annoyed if Kale isn’t mentioned once in reference to Broly’s Full Power form in the movie

Well that depends on how you look at it. First Kale is from a whole other universe, so the fact she has the transformation has no bearing on what goes on in U7. Second while their forms are similur, there not identical either.

As for the LSS being born of sorrow, well Kale transformed the fist few times when she was on the verge of tears.

Well, who’s to say they aren’t identical? As of now, there have been no differnces between Broly’s “Full Power” form and Kale’s SSBerserk form. I think its fair for us to call them one and the same until further notice.

There not though.

The pairs SS forms are noticable different, Kale has green tinted hair, some muscle and normel eyes. Broly has blond hair, a lot more muscle and no pupils or irisis.

True their Legendery forms look identical but outside of that the pair are manifesting the potientil very differently. I wonder if thats tied to whatevers been going on with Broly?

[HeroR]

True. The main story of the Android/Cell Saga had little to do with the previous arcs, but saying you could skip it and lose out on nothing isn't true. The plot may not have been connected, but character arcs and consequences from previous arcs were very much present. For instance, Gohan was built up from the very beginning of Z to have this huge hidden power, and possibly even be a successor to Goku. This all comes to a head at the end of the Cell arc, where we learn that Gohan is not like his father. He doesn't enjoy fighting (which is followed up on more in the Buu arc, when he turns out not to be Goku's successor after all), but he does have amazing power when he is forced to protect what matters to him. The consequences of Goku's disappearance at the end of the Frieza Saga is followed up on, connecting the two sagas. Plus, Cell served as a symbol for all of Goku's past battles coming back to haunt him. He's built by the Red Army and has cells from Piccolo, Vegeta, Frieza, and other foes Goku faced in the past.

The Cell saga would have been a good place to end the series, but the Buu saga had much to offer as well. Again, Goku is gone after his death in the previous arc. Vegeta is revealed to still be holding on to a grudge with Goku, resulting in him turning to the dark side for a chance to finally best his rival, only for him to finally acknowledge and come to peace with the fact that Goku was "better." Because of Gohan's lack of a thirst for battle, he falls behind in his training. While he does get a significant power boost capable of destroying Buu, he's not a replacement for Goku. Goku, in a way, is forced to realize that he was perhaps being unfair putting such a burden on his children. He does eventually find Uub, however, who could be his successor (ironically being the greatest threat to the universe in a previous life), ending with the two flying away. Of course, we also see Gohan with his daughter Pan, Goten and Trunks as older teenagers, and all the older non-alien characters showing signs of age. All in all, Z worked as a serial production, whereas Super doesn't quite work as well.

I mean Freeza coming back, which was one of the only ties Android/Cell Saga had to the previous arc, could have been skipped. Also, Gohan coming into his own was forced in the Cell Saga since compared to every other saga, he got almost no focused and actually disappeared from the story at one point, and only became important after leaving the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Gohan had next to no buildup for him to be the 'main character' in the Cell Saga, which is why him taking over was shocking both in and out of universe. Him not enjoying fighting was also BS because up to that point, Gohan had no problem beating up people who did wrong. Like how many times did he tried to kill Freeza when he was mad for him to suddenly go 'I don't want to fight or hurt you Cell', like really. Especially since he was ready to take Cell's head off when he thought he killed Piccolo and had to be punched by Goku to get him to calm down.

Cell was so loosely connected to the Red Ribbon Army that even he didn't care about it and Goku's disappearance in space had no story impact outside of him getting Instant Transmission. In fact, Goku could have came back from the wish on the Namekian Dragon Balls and it wouldn't have done anything to the story as long as he learned to teleport.

Didn't Vegeta say at the end of the Cell Games, 'I will never fight again'? So why is he still obsessed with Goku going from where his character left out in the Cell Games? Goku actually never came to realized that since he's the one who helped put the shit on the floor by not finishing off Majin Vegeta.

Super actually tells an overall story from Beerus meeting them, to Goku getting UI, a state of a the gods, compared to Z whose later halves are loosely connected to the point of being disjointed.

[Bullza]

That was all still the 'Buu Saga'. They weren't divided up like that in the manga.

Yes I know it was. I'm saying the saga had multiple things going on within it. It wasn't a one note story.

[Bergamo]

In the manga Kale has the same forms as Broly. She has a skinnier Super Saiyan form with no pupils and then she gets a lot buffer when she goes into her full power state.

[AnimeNation101]

Well that depends on how you look at it. First Kale is from a whole other universe, so the fact she has the transformation has no bearing on what goes on in U7. Second while their forms are similur, there not identical either.

As for the LSS being born of sorrow, well Kale transformed the fist few times when she was on the verge of tears.

Well, who’s to say they aren’t identical? As of now, there have been no differnces between Broly’s “Full Power” form and Kale’s SSBerserk form. I think its fair for us to call them one and the same until further notice.

There not though.

The pairs SS forms are noticable different, Kale has green tinted hair, some muscle and normel eyes. Broly has blond hair, a lot more muscle and no pupils or irisis.

True their Legendery forms look identical but outside of that the pair are manifesting the potientil very differently. I wonder if thats tied to whatevers been going on with Broly?

Have we not been watching the same thing?

Both forms involve the character buffing up and loosing their pupils while they gain a green arua. The only differnce is the hair change and that can easily be chalked up to differnt styles. Original Broly LSSJ’s hair in modern dragon ball has always been a greenish color even though upon first debut, it was always yellow. With Kale having the same form, she also had a greenish hair color as she adopted the modern Broly LSSJ hair color. With the new style going back to the classics, it makes sense that Broly’s hair color is back to normal.

Again, an assumption but a valid one, that the difference in hair color, which is small, can very well be chalked up to differnt styles as we have yet to see Kale in her LSSJ in this new style. Other than hair color, the forms are the same.

So besides the hair things, again, nothing has set the forms apart from each other.

And thats not even counting how both have been referred to as demonic saiyan forms.

[CTAkuma]

So besides the hair things, again, nothing has set the forms apart from each other.

And thats not even counting how both have been referred to as demonic saiyan forms.

Except the name, the power, the height, the yellow haired Full power form and other sub forms..... Also Broli's form has never been referred to as "demonic".

[Miracles]

Does anyone think its kinda sad that Gohan is left out in a film about Saiyans yet Piccolo is in?

Gohan isn't a saiyan. He likes studying more than fighting and he always needs to be retrained to get back into the swing of things.
Toriyama is right not to force Gohan into the plot. It gets mundane and boring.

[AnimeNation101]

So besides the hair things, again, nothing has set the forms apart from each other.

And thats not even counting how both have been referred to as demonic saiyan forms.

Except the name, the power, the height, the yellow haired Full power form and other sub forms..... Also Broli's form has never been referred to as "demonic".

Name: Broly’s transformation’s “name” isn’t really even a name. They’re just calling it Broly at full power which is true but that’s not really naming the form.

Height: First off, we don’t know Kale’s height in the form. Second off, Broly is way taller than Kale anyway so of course the heights would be differnt. It wouldn’t make sense that anyone using the transformation would grow to the exact same height despite people being at differnt heights before using the form. So differnt height is a trash point

Sub forms: We dont really know anything about Broly’s (angered form) with the yellow eyes. As for his SSJ form before his final form, Kale has the same thing in the manga.

Demonic: Yeah. The whole start of this discussion is that a thing translated by herms says that Broly’s form is unique to him. In that same thing, it says “He transforms into a demon”.

[AnimeNation101]

Does anyone think its kinda sad that Gohan is left out in a film about Saiyans yet Piccolo is in?

Gohan isn't a saiyan. He likes studying more than fighting and he always needs to be retrained to get back into the swing of things.
Toriyama is right not to force Gohan into the plot. It gets mundane and boring.

Yeah. Plus it avoids more BS like him supposedly getting to God level after less than a day of training with Piccolo of all people after slacking on his training for a while

[CTAkuma]

Sub forms: We dont really know anything about Broly’s (angered form) with the yellow eyes. As for his SSJ form before his final form, Kale has the same thing in the manga.

Demonic: Yeah. The whole start of this discussion is that a thing translated by herms says that Broly’s form is unique to him. In that same thing, it says “He transforms into a demon”.

Actually Broli has the "yellow haired LSS" like in the old movies in one image, which Kale doesn't, Broli has an enhanced adaptive ability, which Kale doesn't, Broli has the rage sub form, which Kale doesn't. Anime is not the same as the Manga continuity i thought people knew by now especially when Kale's Berserk form in the manga looks like her controlled form in the anime just without pupils, so they have even less in common there.

And that's its official name, "Super saiyan Full Power", not Berserk/Lss or whatever they used for Kale

[AnimeNation101]

Sub forms: We dont really know anything about Broly’s (angered form) with the yellow eyes. As for his SSJ form before his final form, Kale has the same thing in the manga.

Demonic: Yeah. The whole start of this discussion is that a thing translated by herms says that Broly’s form is unique to him. In that same thing, it says “He transforms into a demon”.

Actually Broli has the "yellow haired LSS" like in the old movies in one image, which Kale doesn't, Broli has an enhanced adaptive ability, which Kale doesn't, Broli has the rage sub form, which Kale doesn't. Anime is not the same as the Manga continuity i thought people knew by now especially when Kale's Berserk form in the manga looks like her controlled form in the anime just without pupils, so they have even less in common there.

And that's its official name, "Super saiyan Full Power", not Berserk/Lss or whatever they used for Kale

I already explained the Yellow ssj thing. I’d assume by Broly’s “enhanced adaptive ability” you mean the references to him getting stronger throughout the battle. Even though they are just referring to how he keeps transforming which isn’t actually an ability from his LSSJ or Full Power form. The argument is that Kale’s LSSJ form is the same as Broly’s so that includes both manga and anime Kale since logically, things manga Kale can do are equally possible for anime Kale and vice-versa. So my point still stands. Again, the argument is about the LSSJ form. Not his yellow-eyed form. And i already explained the name thing. Even if its called SSJ Full Power, its just a title givin to him because its Broly’s ssj form at full power. Just like how Kale’s form is called “Berserk” (not even ss berserk, just berserk) because when she’s in the form, she’s berserk. That doesn’t mean the forms aren’t the same. So the name differnces is not really a good reason

And if you dont buy any of that, you can easily chalk the slight differnces up to differnt evolutions. The forms are the same but Kale’s differnt evolution and Broly’s differnt evolution cause small differnces. But thats purely an excuse for the problems even though i feel like i debunked them well enough.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I definitely hope that Kale is discussed when Goku and Vegeta see Broly's full-power state.

The similarities are great enough to at least warrant mention.

[CTAkuma]

I already explained the Yellow ssj thing. I’d assume by Broly’s “enhanced adaptive ability” you mean the references to him getting stronger throughout the battle. Even though they are just referring to how he keeps transforming which isn’t actually an ability from his LSSJ or Full Power form. The argument is that Kale’s LSSJ form is the same as Broly’s so that includes both manga and anime Kale since logically, things manga Kale can do are equally possible for anime Kale and vice-versa. So my point still stands. Again, the argument is about the LSSJ form. Not his yellow-eyed form. And i already explained the name thing. Even if its called SSJ Full Power, its just a title givin to him because its Broly’s ssj form at full power. Just like how Kale’s form is called “Berserk” (not even ss berserk, just berserk) because when she’s in the form, she’s berserk. That doesn’t mean the forms aren’t the same. So the name differnces is not really a good reason

And if you dont buy any of that, you can easily chalk the slight differnces up to differnt evolutions. The forms are the same but Kale’s differnt evolution and Broly’s differnt evolution cause small differnces. But thats purely an excuse for the problems even though i feel like i debunked them well enough.

It's not stated that his adaptive ability comes from transformation but that he actually gets stronger as he fights. Also he has this form, which i couldn't find the image for but here is the similar golden haired Full power form from the old movie

Spoiler:

Merchandise etc. calls this "Super saiyan full power" thus its his official name not a title

Spoiler:

Again visually manga Kale looks even less like Broli and she doesn't have the adaptive ability, but infact gets weaker over time. Anime Kale is WAY weaker than Broli even in base and U6 saiyans are supposed to be "more evolved", so if this was identical then how come the power difference is that large?

[zarmack]

True. The main story of the Android/Cell Saga had little to do with the previous arcs, but saying you could skip it and lose out on nothing isn't true. The plot may not have been connected, but character arcs and consequences from previous arcs were very much present. For instance, Gohan was built up from the very beginning of Z to have this huge hidden power, and possibly even be a successor to Goku. This all comes to a head at the end of the Cell arc, where we learn that Gohan is not like his father. He doesn't enjoy fighting (which is followed up on more in the Buu arc, when he turns out not to be Goku's successor after all), but he does have amazing power when he is forced to protect what matters to him. The consequences of Goku's disappearance at the end of the Frieza Saga is followed up on, connecting the two sagas. Plus, Cell served as a symbol for all of Goku's past battles coming back to haunt him. He's built by the Red Army and has cells from Piccolo, Vegeta, Frieza, and other foes Goku faced in the past.

The Cell saga would have been a good place to end the series, but the Buu saga had much to offer as well. Again, Goku is gone after his death in the previous arc. Vegeta is revealed to still be holding on to a grudge with Goku, resulting in him turning to the dark side for a chance to finally best his rival, only for him to finally acknowledge and come to peace with the fact that Goku was "better." Because of Gohan's lack of a thirst for battle, he falls behind in his training. While he does get a significant power boost capable of destroying Buu, he's not a replacement for Goku. Goku, in a way, is forced to realize that he was perhaps being unfair putting such a burden on his children. He does eventually find Uub, however, who could be his successor (ironically being the greatest threat to the universe in a previous life), ending with the two flying away. Of course, we also see Gohan with his daughter Pan, Goten and Trunks as older teenagers, and all the older non-alien characters showing signs of age. All in all, Z worked as a serial production, whereas Super doesn't quite work as well.

I mean Freeza coming back, which was one of the only ties Android/Cell Saga had to the previous arc, could have been skipped. Also, Gohan coming into his own was forced in the Cell Saga since compared to every other saga, he got almost no focused and actually disappeared from the story at one point, and only became important after leaving the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Gohan had next to no buildup for him to be the 'main character' in the Cell Saga, which is why him taking over was shocking both in and out of universe. Him not enjoying fighting was also BS because up to that point, Gohan had no problem beating up people who did wrong. Like how many times did he tried to kill Freeza when he was mad for him to suddenly go 'I don't want to fight or hurt you Cell', like really. Especially since he was ready to take Cell's head off when he thought he killed Piccolo and had to be punched by Goku to get him to calm down.

Cell was so loosely connected to the Red Ribbon Army that even he didn't care about it and Goku's disappearance in space had no story impact outside of him getting Instant Transmission. In fact, Goku could have came back from the wish on the Namekian Dragon Balls and it wouldn't have done anything to the story as long as he learned to teleport.

Didn't Vegeta say at the end of the Cell Games, 'I will never fight again'? So why is he still obsessed with Goku going from where his character left out in the Cell Games? Goku actually never came to realized that since he's the one who helped put the shit on the floor by not finishing off Majin Vegeta.

Super actually tells an overall story from Beerus meeting them, to Goku getting UI, a state of a the gods, compared to Z whose later halves are loosely connected to the point of being disjointed.

Vegeta said he would never fight again after the Cell Games because his purpose in that arc was to prove that he was the strongest Saiyan alive. Since Goku had died (and was assumed to never come back), Vegeta's life's goal had ended so he thought of retiring (it didn't stick). Hearing that Goku was coming back for the Tournament in the Buu arc was what brought back Vegeta's obsession with Goku that started after the Namek arc.

And no, Goku did realize the he is half responsible for Buu's revival. He even directly says to Majin Vegeta that "It was because of us that Buu is revived".

Most of Super's story arcs are completely irrelevant to each other. Both the RoF and Champa arcs were completely pointless. If you removed them from Super's story then nothing would change much. The events of the ToP arc had little to nothing do with what happened in the Black arc, which itself had little to nothing to do with what happen in the Champa arc.

By contrast, each of Z's 4 story arcs have major consequences to each other. If the Android arc never happen then neither would the Buu saga since everyone's power levels would be too low to interest Badidi and Dabura into coming to Earth (that just one major example).

And your arguments about Gohan are completely illogical. Gohan from day one was portrayed as someone who doesn't like fighting. He's only motivated to fight when he is feeling uncontrollable rage or when he is forced to.

And the Red Ribbon Army arc is the main reason why the Android/Cell arc even happens at all. If Goku never challenged the RRA, there would be no killer Androids to worry about. Super has never had that kind of narrative consequences.

[Miracles]

Does anyone think its kinda sad that Gohan is left out in a film about Saiyans yet Piccolo is in?

Gohan isn't a saiyan. He likes studying more than fighting and he always needs to be retrained to get back into the swing of things.
Toriyama is right not to force Gohan into the plot. It gets mundane and boring.

Yeah. Plus it avoids more BS like him supposedly getting to God level after less than a day of training with Piccolo of all people after slacking on his training for a while

Yeah. It was bad. Forcing Gohan into the plot like that. At the expense of god level.

[AnimeNation101]

I already explained the Yellow ssj thing. I’d assume by Broly’s “enhanced adaptive ability” you mean the references to him getting stronger throughout the battle. Even though they are just referring to how he keeps transforming which isn’t actually an ability from his LSSJ or Full Power form. The argument is that Kale’s LSSJ form is the same as Broly’s so that includes both manga and anime Kale since logically, things manga Kale can do are equally possible for anime Kale and vice-versa. So my point still stands. Again, the argument is about the LSSJ form. Not his yellow-eyed form. And i already explained the name thing. Even if its called SSJ Full Power, its just a title givin to him because its Broly’s ssj form at full power. Just like how Kale’s form is called “Berserk” (not even ss berserk, just berserk) because when she’s in the form, she’s berserk. That doesn’t mean the forms aren’t the same. So the name differnces is not really a good reason

And if you dont buy any of that, you can easily chalk the slight differnces up to differnt evolutions. The forms are the same but Kale’s differnt evolution and Broly’s differnt evolution cause small differnces. But thats purely an excuse for the problems even though i feel like i debunked them well enough.

It's not stated that his adaptive ability comes from transformation but that he actually gets stronger as he fights. Also he has this form, which i couldn't find the image for but here is the similar golden haired Full power form from the old movie

Spoiler:

Merchandise etc. calls this "Super saiyan full power" thus its his official name not a title

Spoiler:

Again visually manga Kale looks even less like Broli and she doesn't have the adaptive ability, but infact gets weaker over time. Anime Kale is WAY weaker than Broli even in base and U6 saiyans are supposed to be "more evolved", so if this was identical then how come the power difference is that large?

You’re arguing the wrong things here man.

The argument is that Kale’s Berserk and Broly’s Full Power are the same form. And here you are bringing up either unrelated info like the adaptive ability of Broly which has nothing to do with his Full Power form or stuff I’ve already debunked multiple times like them calling the form Full Power or Berserk doesn’t mean they’re different.
And again, I know what form you’re talking about with Broly. He has an SSJ form where he isn’t buffed up but doesn’t have pupils either. Kale in the manga has the same form so that just helps my point again.