How strong are Android 18 and Piccolo are after the ToP?

[zarmack]

Are they in the Post-BoG base/SSJ1 levels of power, or do you think they are still in the Buu arc levels? And who do you think is stronger between the 2?

[Lionel]

Factoring in the Copy Vegeta scuffles, I think they should be considerably stronger than just about anything the Buu arc has to throw at them. I could see Piccolo and #18 giving trouble to the stronger fighters at the Champa arc like Magetta. Present Zamasu might not be outside the realm of possibility if you believe the inflation grew enormously between the Future Trunks and Tournament of Power arcs.

Now for who's stronger, going off initial optics, the answer seems to be favouring #18. Unlike Piccolo, who used one of his most powerful attacks only to have it get repelled by Base Goku during their practice match, #18 was handily contending with fighters that were keeping Base Goku on his toes.

[SSJgogeto]

18 - maybe as strong as Imperfect Cell.

Piccolo - hard to say. IMO he's stronger than SS3 Goku, but honestly I can't say say if he is on the same level of Gotenks, for example.

[PFM18]

I wish there were more threads talking about things like this

18: I don't really have much of a clue. This uncertain is a function of how inconsistently Ribrianne was portrayed, being sometimes SSJ level, to Base Vegeta easily disposing of her, and her apparent power-up, and then 18 beat her. If 18 is stronger than the Base Saiyans based on this, and the fact that she was able to beat Tupper easily when Base Goku had trouble, then she dwarfs anything that we saw from the Buu arc. But the Tupper thing could easily be rationalized as Tupper taking Goku off-guard and holding him, and then 18 was able to throw him undistracted/clear purpose, and then again with Base Vegeta crushing Ribrianne at one point IIRC, she could still be weaker than Base Goku/Vegeta. If that's the case she could fall ANYWHERE in the gap between her Android arc power and current Base Goku which is an unfathomably large gap. So I really couldn't tell you.

Piccolo: Depends how you interpret his comment about Gohan "gaining the power he had against Buu." If it refers to literally the power Gohan had when he fought Super Buu, and he reattained it, then Piccolo was weaker than Buu arc Ultimate Gohan before their off-screen training that yielded enormous boosts. I would imagine that during their off-screen training in which Gohan achieved an incredibly large power increase, Piccolo would have at least well surpassed the Buu Arc level of Ultimate Gohan. But he wasn't able to damage current Base Goku at all even with a seemingly amped ki blast. So in this case he would fall in somewhere in between Buu arc Ultimate Gohan and current Base Goku. Which obviously, is a very large gap.

Now, if you interpret Piccolo's statement about "the power you had against Buu" as saying "power" in terms of the "Ultimate" state itself, which is possible since sometimes they refer to transformations as "a power", then you'd end up with different conclusions.

[BlueBasilisk]

If 18 is stronger than the Base Saiyans based on this, and the fact that she was able to beat Tupper easily when Base Goku had trouble, then she dwarfs anything that we saw from the Buu arc. But the Tupper thing could easily be rationalized as Tupper taking Goku off-guard and holding him, and then 18 was able to throw him undistracted/clear purpose, and then again with Base Vegeta crushing Ribrianne at one point IIRC, she could still be weaker than Base Goku/Vegeta.

Tupper was using his ability to boost his weight while he was holding Goku but not when he was fighting 18. That's why he was glowing red in that scene but stopped when he let go of Goku and jumped away.

18 is really hard to judge for me too. She doesn't have any real benchmark fights like 17 did. I doubt she's nearly as strong as he is but she does seem to be stronger than she was before, at least.

[PFM18]

If 18 is stronger than the Base Saiyans based on this, and the fact that she was able to beat Tupper easily when Base Goku had trouble, then she dwarfs anything that we saw from the Buu arc. But the Tupper thing could easily be rationalized as Tupper taking Goku off-guard and holding him, and then 18 was able to throw him undistracted/clear purpose, and then again with Base Vegeta crushing Ribrianne at one point IIRC, she could still be weaker than Base Goku/Vegeta.

Tupper was using his ability to boost his weight while he was holding Goku but not when he was fighting 18. That's why he was glowing red in that scene but stopped when he let go of Goku and jumped away.

18 is really hard to judge for me too. She doesn't have any real benchmark fights like 17 did. I doubt she's nearly as strong as he is but she does seem to be stronger than she was before, at least.

The best that can really be determined is that he isn't as strong as her brother, and she seems to be stronger than before. She's still irrelevant in power so it isn't really important to know exactly where she stands though.

[CJStriker_CBR]

Are they in the Post-BoG base/SSJ1 levels of power, or do you think they are still in the Buu arc levels? And who do you think is stronger between the 2?

I wish there were more threads talking about things like this

18: I don't really have much of a clue. This uncertain is a function of how inconsistently Ribrianne was portrayed, being sometimes SSJ level, to Base Goku easily disposing of her, and her apparent power-up, and then 18 beat her. If 18 is stronger than the Base Saiyans based on this, and the fact that she was able to beat Tupper easily when Base Goku had trouble, then she dwarfs anything that we saw from the Buu arc. But the Tupper thing could easily be rationalized as Tupper taking Goku off-guard and holding him, and then 18 was able to throw him undistracted/clear purpose, and then again with Base Vegeta crushing Ribrianne at one point IIRC, she could still be weaker than Base Goku/Vegeta. If that's the case she could fall ANYWHERE in the gap between her Android arc power and current Base Goku which is an unfathomably large gap. So I really couldn't tell you.

I could not figure out Piccolo even if I tried, so I will just stick with Android 18 since their is much more to work with her, espically after her fight with Ribrianne in the ToP and Scaling Android 18's powers from their.

1st off their is allot of lazy writing done by Toei when it came to many characters levels of power in the ToP, Ribrianne being one of the main victims of this, just lazy writers. However for the sake not making this all about that, I still can figure out a good ideal on where Ribrianne's power is and in-turn it goes in Reflecting 18's power level, so lets go from their.

Really that Base Vegeta fight is Way over used in Sampling Ribrianne's power level, from being tired to Ribrianne losing belief in her power levels, their is some explanations to give in gauging this is not her at full strength.

So when 18 fought the final form of Ribrianne I feel Ribrianne was close to, maybe not full scale but close enough to what her full power she could be. In that Ribrianne levels are she could fight SSJ-1 Vegeta and Android 17 very well in episodes 102-103. It took Blue Goku to Knock down Super Ribrianne with no damage done to her either, so by the time we get to Giant Love In-Fused Ribrianne, My Theory is that Ribrianne base SSJ-1, Super Ribrianne at least SSJ-2 to 3 and Giant in the Range of God Red Level, if not at least SSJ-3 Levels, but I am low balling their.

So Honestly by the end of the ToP, after Android 18 in episode 117 got her Family Love Power-Up, I say she is at a present Day, at least and low balling it again;

Android 18~~She is likely at SSJ-3 Levels of power most likely, but can get to Red Levels too.

[Nokra]

Are they in the Post-BoG base/SSJ1 levels of power, or do you think they are still in the Buu arc levels? And who do you think is stronger between the 2?

I wish there were more threads talking about things like this

18: I don't really have much of a clue. This uncertain is a function of how inconsistently Ribrianne was portrayed, being sometimes SSJ level, to Base Goku easily disposing of her, and her apparent power-up, and then 18 beat her. If 18 is stronger than the Base Saiyans based on this, and the fact that she was able to beat Tupper easily when Base Goku had trouble, then she dwarfs anything that we saw from the Buu arc. But the Tupper thing could easily be rationalized as Tupper taking Goku off-guard and holding him, and then 18 was able to throw him undistracted/clear purpose, and then again with Base Vegeta crushing Ribrianne at one point IIRC, she could still be weaker than Base Goku/Vegeta. If that's the case she could fall ANYWHERE in the gap between her Android arc power and current Base Goku which is an unfathomably large gap. So I really couldn't tell you.

I could not figure out Piccolo even if I tried, so I will just stick with Android 18 since their is much more to work with her, espically after her fight with Ribrianne in the ToP and Scaling Android 18's powers from their.

1st off their is allot of lazy writing done by Toei when it came to many characters levels of power in the ToP, Ribrianne being one of the main victims of this, just lazy writers. However for the sake not making this all about that, I still can figure out a good ideal on where Ribrianne's power is and in-turn it goes in Reflecting 18's power level, so lets go from their.

Really that Base Vegeta fight is Way over used in Sampling Ribrianne's power level, from being tired to Ribrianne losing belief in her power levels, their is some explanations to give in gauging this is not her at full strength.

So when 18 fought the final form of Ribrianne I feel Ribrianne was close to, maybe not full scale but close enough to what her full power she could be. In that Ribrianne levels are she could fight SSJ-1 Vegeta and Android 17 very well in episodes 102-103. It took Blue Goku to Knock down Super Ribrianne with no damage done to her either, so by the time we get to Giant Love In-Fused Ribrianne, My Theory is that Ribrianne base SSJ-1, Super Ribrianne at least SSJ-2 to 3 and Giant in the Range of God Red Level, if not at least SSJ-3 Levels, but I am low balling their.

So Honestly by the end of the ToP, after Android 18 in episode 117 got her Family Love Power-Up, I say she is at a present Day, at least and low balling it again;

Android 18~~She is likely at SSJ-3 Levels of power most likely, but can get to Red Levels too.

No way 18 is God level I doubt she is even SSJ level. She's probably relative somewhat to base Goku/Vegeta but not quite as strong as their base forms.

[p-hyvo]

Super namekian piccolo is a low god tier, c18 is high base saiyan tier, she has demonstrated against Tupper to be stronger than base goku

[CJStriker_CBR]

No way 18 is God level I doubt she is even SSJ level. She's probably relative somewhat to base Goku/Vegeta but not quite as strong as their base forms.

I honestly expect others to have these ideals on Android 18's level, I can see where and why. However I only see that with her at the start of the ToP, not after, she changed allot and go allot more powerful in her own way. So indeed with all honor and respect to other viewpoints on this, I just disagree and I keep what I said before where I believe she stands now, again above SSJ-1 & 2 and is like in SSJ-3 levels.

[p-hyvo]

Super namekian piccolo is a low god tier, c18 is high base saiyan tier, she has demonstrated against Tupper to be stronger than base goku

Ret on, I tod how strong they are at the start of the top.
The situation for piccolo doesn't changes, only the gap between him and god goku is doubled or a bit more. C18 is 40-50% base goku imo

[PFM18]

Super namekian piccolo is a low god tier,

How so?

c18 is high base saiyan tier, she has demonstrated against Tupper to be stronger than base goku

Not really. We've already discussed in the thread how this scene isn't necessarily indicative of her being stronger than Base Goku.

[p-hyvo]

Super namekian piccolo is a low god tier,

How so?

c18 is high base saiyan tier, she has demonstrated against Tupper to be stronger than base goku

Not really. We've already discussed in the thread how this scene isn't necessarily indicative of her being stronger than Base Goku.

In my opinion she is

[Spider-Man]

The ToP is pretty annoying to scale but I'm gonna say 18 is Base tier but not quite strong compare to Base Goku and Piccolo is Super Saiyan 1 tier.

[zarmack]

At this point, A18 and Piccolo should be able to dominate everything in Z easily.

[ZombieVito]

Both of them can kill anything from Z with the exception of SS Vegetto. Piccolo is 100 times stronger than the base Gohan who was on par with Lavender who was not that weaker than Boo. 18 was stronger than RIbrianne but the later was very weak. I honestly don't even think that giant Ribrianne is stronger than base Goku going by E118 proved.

As for who would win between them, Gamisaras already proved Piccolo >> 18.

[PFM18]

Both of them can kill anything from Z with the exception of SS Vegetto. Piccolo is 100 times stronger than the base Gohan who was on par with Lavender who was not that weaker than Boo. 18 was stronger than RIbrianne but the later was very weak. I honestly don't even think that giant Ribrianne is stronger than base Goku going by E118 prove..

fair points.

But how exactly did Gamisaras prove Piccolo's superiority over 18?

[ZombieVito]

fair points.

But how exactly did Gamisaras prove Piccolo's superiority over 18?

Easy. Gamisaras was able to break 18's defenses by mere punches. 18 couldn't do anything unlike Yamcha when he fought Baba's invisible man. Yamcha was at least able to dodge and even hit him once. So since 18 couldn't do anything to Gamisaras, he's at least on her level or close to it.

When Piccolo fought Gamisaras he completely overwhelmed him and then called him "nothing".

[Polyphase Avatron]

fair points.

But how exactly did Gamisaras prove Piccolo's superiority over 18?

Easy. Gamisaras was able to break 18's defenses by mere punches. 18 couldn't do anything unlike Yamcha when he fought Baba's invisible man. Yamcha was at least able to dodge and even hit him once. So since 18 couldn't do anything to Gamisaras, he's at least on her level or close to it.

When Piccolo fought Gamisaras he completely overwhelmed him and then called him "nothing".

Couldn't that have something to do with the fact that Piccolo can sense ki and 18 can't?

[ZombieVito]

Couldn't that have something to do with the fact that Piccolo can sense ki and 18 can't?

No. Piccolo himself said Gamisaras was nothing to him and proved it.

In any case Yamcha couldn't sense Ki back there either.