"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[reecehoward]

Personally, I thought there was more conceptual intrigue in the U6 Namekians than a modernist interpretation of the Broly archetype -- one which we're getting in yet another movie focused on the actual character anyway. We know very little about the Universe 6 Namekians or their development as a society and possible warrior class. It was a big waste to dispose of them so hastily.

I agree. I loved the "borrowed" idea of Namekians fusing together to create an uber powerful warrior. It was badass in Dragonball Multiverse and had the potential to be equally badass in Super, especially if the two had fused into the ultimate Namekian warrior. The whole planet wide fusion is a dope concept.

[TKA]

If Dragonball Multiverse did it, that's good enough reason to never ever even entertain the idea of doing it.

Spoiler:

Before someone tries to "gotcha" me with the whole concept of a multiverse, well that's just a stupid point. The way the official material handles other universes is so drastically different than DBM's that you'd be pretty silly equating them.

[reecehoward]

If Dragonball Multiverse did it, that's good enough reason to never ever even entertain the idea of doing it.

Spoiler:

Before someone tries to "gotcha" me with the whole concept of a multiverse, well that's just a stupid point. The way the official material handles other universes is so drastically different than DBM's that you'd be pretty silly equating them.

Well, in my opinion, there were many great ideas in Multiverse. Where do you think the concept of Vegeta's whole Ssg to Blue switch tactic originated? In Multiverse, Trunks literally does the same thing, only for slightly different reasons. He uses his regular Super Saiyan state, switching to Ssj grade 3 only briefly during the moment of his strikes. In this, he avoids the weakness of the more powerful form by switching into it for only an instance. If you liked the switch concept in the manga, then you're being hypocritical by your above comment.

[Aizamasu]

If Dragonball Multiverse did it, that's good enough reason to never ever even entertain the idea of doing it.

Spoiler:

Before someone tries to "gotcha" me with the whole concept of a multiverse, well that's just a stupid point. The way the official material handles other universes is so drastically different than DBM's that you'd be pretty silly equating them.

Well, in my opinion, there were many great ideas in Multiverse. Where do you think the concept of Vegeta's whole Ssg to Blue switch tactic originated? In Multiverse, Trunks literally does the same thing, only for slightly different reasons. He uses his regular Super Saiyan state, switching to Ssj grade 3 only briefly during the moment of his strikes. In this, he avoids the weakness of the more powerful form by switching into it for only an instance. If you liked the switch concept in the manga, then you're being hypocritical by your above comment.

Didn't Toyotaro originally use the form switching in his Dragon ball AF? At least that's where I think it originated from but I could be wrong.

[Saiga]

If Dragonball Multiverse did it, that's good enough reason to never ever even entertain the idea of doing it.

Spoiler:

Before someone tries to "gotcha" me with the whole concept of a multiverse, well that's just a stupid point. The way the official material handles other universes is so drastically different than DBM's that you'd be pretty silly equating them.

Well, in my opinion, there were many great ideas in Multiverse. Where do you think the concept of Vegeta's whole Ssg to Blue switch tactic originated? In Multiverse, Trunks literally does the same thing, only for slightly different reasons. He uses his regular Super Saiyan state, switching to Ssj grade 3 only briefly during the moment of his strikes. In this, he avoids the weakness of the more powerful form by switching into it for only an instance. If you liked the switch concept in the manga, then you're being hypocritical by your above comment.

Did you actually think Toyo copied that from DBM? As mentioned above, he'd already used that idea before DBM.

Not to mention, the DBM version didn't even make sense. Grade 3 was already far outclassed in power even without the speed issue, so it was entirely pointless.

[Lukmendes]

If Dragonball Multiverse did it, that's good enough reason to never ever even entertain the idea of doing it.

Spoiler:

Before someone tries to "gotcha" me with the whole concept of a multiverse, well that's just a stupid point. The way the official material handles other universes is so drastically different than DBM's that you'd be pretty silly equating them.

Well, in my opinion, there were many great ideas in Multiverse. Where do you think the concept of Vegeta's whole Ssg to Blue switch tactic originated? In Multiverse, Trunks literally does the same thing, only for slightly different reasons. He uses his regular Super Saiyan state, switching to Ssj grade 3 only briefly during the moment of his strikes. In this, he avoids the weakness of the more powerful form by switching into it for only an instance. If you liked the switch concept in the manga, then you're being hypocritical by your above comment.

Didn't Toyotaro originally use the form switching in his Dragon ball AF? At least that's where I think it originated from but I could be wrong.

As far as I remember, he used it in the last unreleased volume, with Vegeta switching between SS Grade 5, I think, SS3 and SS4, with SS3 having a more evolved version so it's faster I think, and he switched between each to abuse whatever advantage each transformation had.

Toyotaro ended up doing something similar with God and Blue forms, except the switching was much simpler since it was just to save stamina, but the basic idea is the same.

If Dragonball Multiverse did it, that's good enough reason to never ever even entertain the idea of doing it.

Spoiler:

Before someone tries to "gotcha" me with the whole concept of a multiverse, well that's just a stupid point. The way the official material handles other universes is so drastically different than DBM's that you'd be pretty silly equating them.

Well, in my opinion, there were many great ideas in Multiverse. Where do you think the concept of Vegeta's whole Ssg to Blue switch tactic originated? In Multiverse, Trunks literally does the same thing, only for slightly different reasons. He uses his regular Super Saiyan state, switching to Ssj grade 3 only briefly during the moment of his strikes. In this, he avoids the weakness of the more powerful form by switching into it for only an instance. If you liked the switch concept in the manga, then you're being hypocritical by your above comment.

Did you actually think Toyo copied that from DBM? As mentioned above, he'd already used that idea before DBM.

Not to mention, the DBM version didn't even make sense. Grade 3 was already far outclassed in power even without the speed issue, so it was entirely pointless.

Well, DBM ignores officialy stabilished power levels, by making grade 3 be around the level of SS2, and SS2 being 10 times stronger than SS1 and whatnot... Salagir likes big ass power boosts lol.

[TKA]

Not to mention, the DBM version didn't even make sense. Grade 3 was already far outclassed in power even without the speed issue, so it was entirely pointless.

What are your thoughts on the recent chapters? More specifically, ultra instinct.

[RandomGuy96]

The phrase "off guard" has officially lost all meaning.

Vegeta and Toppo were fully on-guard, looking directly at Kale, and blocking when she decked them. And while they weren't injured (if they were blocking would be useless), she still almost eliminates them and they take her hits worse than they take each other's when they're blocking. Freeza wasn't caught off guard the whole time either. After Kale starts beating him, she throws him away and he has several seconds to get his bearings. It doesn't help, she just calmly strolls over and goes back to smacking him around. This only stops when Goku goes CSSB and jumps in to save Freeza from getting eliminated. The fact that he even used CSSB is a huge deal; he doesn't just spam it like in the anime, he only uses it when necessary (otherwise he defaults to either a golden-haired form or his non-stressful red form, depending on his mood).

Then we see Freeza freaking out and sweating as her power spikes. Then in the next chapter Freeza proclaims he has to power down and rest to restore energy. Because apparently holding back really tires you out.

I have no idea why people still try to pretend her opponents were off-guard. It's blindingly obvious that she's just supposed to be strong. These clashes only exist for the sake of Worfing. She thrashes Golden Freeza and seriously pressures but doesn't overwhelm CSSB Goku and Vegeta, who apparently don't think SSG would be enough to handle her.

CSSB Goku/Vegeta >= Kale > Golden Freeza > SSG Goku/Vegeta

With Kefla being about the same as Kale and Gohan being about the same as Kefla. The power scale there is pretty clear.

[PFM18]

If Dragonball Multiverse did it, that's good enough reason to never ever even entertain the idea of doing it.

It made conceptual sense for Namekians to fuse together for the betterment of their kind in Multiverse, and it makes sense to do it here. If it gives them a better chance of surviving as a Universe, they have every reason to fuse. You can't just dismiss something on the grounds that it was done in Multiverse

With Kefla being about the same as Kale

Didn't the Pride Troopers say Kefla was on another level from Kale? Or at least, her moves were on another level. Then, Vados says that Kefla is possibly unmatched on the battle field while she says no such thing abuot Kale.

[Miracles]

Freeza just recently noted to Jiren that he has been holding back the whole tournament. After Kale smacked Golden Freeza around he was able to knock Goku out of Blue. He proclaimed all he had to do was get serious. The story clearly showed and stated that Kale is around their level but not in their class.

As for the Namekians fusing in the DB super anime. I liked the idea. It was one of the rare times that actual desperation was shown to win. I appreciate the sense of urgency brought by those Namekians cause it did help the atmosphere of a survival tournament.

[batistabus]

I do think that characters getting caught off-guard is a bit overused in Super, but it's one of the only ways to make weaker characters effective, so I don't mind it that much.

We know:

-Kale's power spikes dramatically and without warning when berserk.
-Toppo and Vegeta were locked in combat but still reacted fast enough to block. Neither were hurt, but both were surprised by the impact.
-Goku was fully focused on fighting Kale. He easily broke her, but had his guard broken when her ki spiked unexpectedly.

We don't know:
-If Freeza can sense ki as of the ToP.

As far as I'm concerned, and especially based on Vegeta's speech, berserk Kale is all flash with little depth when compared to the upper-tier fighters at the tournament.

As for the anime's 2 super Namekians, I'm torn. It's an interesting idea, and I liked it when it was introduced in multiverse, but it's something that totally abuses and - in my opinion - breaks the rules of the lore. It feels out of place, and based on Toriyama's restraint, it doesn't feel like something he would decide to include. It would've been cool to see the Namekians do something in the tournament, but their sheer inclusion was enough for me. If they're just meant to be normal Namekians, I don't see a reason to waste time on them.

Also...the fact that Toei borrowed from an internet fanfic seems a bit weird to me, but that's neither here nor there. It's like how Xeno Goku's design was borrowed from this fanart.

[Doctor.]

I still find it irksome how neither version explained what the heck a Yardrat is doing in universe 2. They both point out that there is, in fact, a Yardrat in a universe he's not native to, but saying he teleported to it somehow seems like it's too troublesome to do.

[TKA]

Also...the fact that Toei borrowed from an internet fanfic seems a bit weird to me, but that's neither here nor there. It's like how Xeno Goku's design was borrowed from this fanart.

As little respect as I give Toei's integrity when it comes to writing, I highly doubt they were copying an online comic. "What if Piccolo absorbed every namekian!?" has been something I've heard of for years. My friends back in the 2nd grade (fuck this series is old) used to talk about how he'd be stronger than the super saiyans if he did that. It's hardly that unique of an idea.

... which is why I agree with you that Toriyama probably wouldn't do it. This is the guy that created a whole other fusion mechanic just so he wouldn't repeat a plot point from a disposable Toei movie.

[batistabus]

As little respect as I give Toei's integrity when it comes to writing, I highly doubt they were copying an online comic.

You may be right, but I'm still skeptical. We know that the Dragon Ball Room has their noses in fan-created Dragon Ball works (both because they need to protect their IP and to scout talent), and since some of the writers are youngsters of the internet age, I wouldn't be surprised if some were savvy to that as well.

I still find it irksome how neither version explained what the heck a Yardrat is doing in universe 2. They both point out that there is, in fact, a Yardrat in a universe he's not native to, but saying he teleported to it somehow seems like it's too troublesome to do.

As for the anime version, I have no idea. I don't remember reading anything that said the Yardrat wasn't native to Universe 2. Where was that from? Otherwise, I suppose it's possible that species could exist in universes that aren't "twins". The Tsufurian character could be another example.

In the manga, I don't think those characters are meant to be what the anime's website bios describe them as. The outfit is the same (most of the fodder characters were designed by Toei anyway), but we never see that character use teleportation. Since Toriyama gave them a completely different design for DB Online, my guess is that's how Toyotaro would represent them in his manga.

[BrolySSJL]

Nobody commenting this?

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1057 ... Fpage-5152

[TKA]

Because talking about canon is the most bottom-tier nerd shit you can do. Never accomplishes anything.

[Skar]

... which is why I agree with you that Toriyama probably wouldn't do it. This is the guy that created a whole other fusion mechanic just so he wouldn't repeat a plot point from a disposable Toei movie.

Times have changed my friend. That same fusion character Toriyama wanted to avoid using will supposedly appear in his movie...along with Broly, a Toei character that we would've never predicted would be written by Toriyama. I remember when RoF came out, some fans speculated that Toriyama might bring back Broly since he's like the 2nd most popular villain in the series but that idea was getting shut down as being too absurd. We don't really know what to expect when it comes to modern Dragonball. For all we know, Toriyama might be out of ideas so he might not be against using a concept he comes around that he thinks could be fun or enjoyed by the fans.

[PFM18]

I still find it irksome how neither version explained what the heck a Yardrat is doing in universe 2. They both point out that there is, in fact, a Yardrat in a universe he's not native to, but saying he teleported to it somehow seems like it's too troublesome to do.

It should have been explained and I'm disappointed too but it technically doesn't contradict anything. Yardrats could be native to Universe 2 and Universe 7 simultaneously. Which would be strange since they aren't twin universes, Universe 2's twin is Universe 11 which doesn't seem to resemble it in any way.

[Doctor.]

I still find it irksome how neither version explained what the heck a Yardrat is doing in universe 2. They both point out that there is, in fact, a Yardrat in a universe he's not native to, but saying he teleported to it somehow seems like it's too troublesome to do.

It should have been explained and I'm disappointed too but it technically doesn't contradict anything. Yardrats could be native to Universe 2 and Universe 7 simultaneously. Which would be strange since they aren't twin universes, Universe 2's twin is Universe 11 which doesn't seem to resemble it in any way.

It doesn't contradict anything only because we lack any kind of information on how the other universes are structured, but we can infer that if they're paired up in twins, then they share the same species and planets exclusively. Otherwise, this could be used as a really lazy excuse to pull more Saiyans from the other universes, which I fear.

[PFM18]

I still find it irksome how neither version explained what the heck a Yardrat is doing in universe 2. They both point out that there is, in fact, a Yardrat in a universe he's not native to, but saying he teleported to it somehow seems like it's too troublesome to do.

It should have been explained and I'm disappointed too but it technically doesn't contradict anything. Yardrats could be native to Universe 2 and Universe 7 simultaneously. Which would be strange since they aren't twin universes, Universe 2's twin is Universe 11 which doesn't seem to resemble it in any way.

It doesn't contradict anything only because we lack any kind of information on how the other universes are structured, but we can infer that if they're paired up in twins, then they share the same species and planets exclusively. Otherwise, this could be used as a really lazy excuse to pull more Saiyans from the other universes, which I fear.

In terms of "information on how the other universes are structured" we have the fact that any Universes that add up to 13 are Twin Universes. Whis stated that a couple times. So I mean that is information on how they are structured. So naturally the Yardrats should exist in 6 and 7 but technically nothing is stopping them from somehow also being native to Universe 2.