Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[PFM18]

Why would they have Beerus suspect UI omen when the episode in question was when Goku mastered UI?

...because for 90% of the episode in question he was using UI Omen? Why would he be referring to the completed version when it barely makes an appearance at the end? Jiren is stronger than Belmod, and beyond the GoDs, and 3rd UI Omen Goku was really close to Beerus, so it makes perfect sense that he would be around Beerus as the magazine indicates. If Goku surpassed Jiren, who was stronger than the GoDs, why would there be any question that he was stronger than Beerus? I don't see how the implication is anything other than 3rd UI Omen Goku~Beerus.

Episode 129 title said Goku masters UI. The magazine straight up talks about UI Goku, not the fan name "omen."

UI Omen is still UI. It literally shows the black haired iteration of Goku right next to the line in the magazine. If they were talking about Completed UI, they would have shown the silver haired iteration with the statement.

[Miracles]

...because for 90% of the episode in question he was using UI Omen? Why would he be referring to the completed version when it barely makes an appearance at the end? Jiren is stronger than Belmod, and beyond the GoDs, and 3rd UI Omen Goku was really close to Beerus, so it makes perfect sense that he would be around Beerus as the magazine indicates. If Goku surpassed Jiren, who was stronger than the GoDs, why would there be any question that he was stronger than Beerus? I don't see how the implication is anything other than 3rd UI Omen Goku~Beerus.

Episode 129 title said Goku masters UI. The magazine straight up talks about UI Goku, not the fan name "omen."

UI Omen is still UI. It literally shows the black haired iteration of Goku right next to the line in the magazine. If they were talking about Completed UI, they would have shown the silver haired iteration with the statement.

The episode title states that it was about Goku mastering UI. Besides, why would they spoil true UI's appearance [unless they already did]?

[Marlowe89]

The episode title states that it was about Goku mastering UI. Besides, why would they spoil true UI's appearance [unless they already did]?

Also keep in mind that the image is accompanying the entire summary, not just the sentence about Beerus questioning his strength compared to Goku's. That's only a small part of the scan's text that occurs after the summary states that Goku masters Ultra Instinct in the episode.

[Miracles]

The episode title states that it was about Goku mastering UI. Besides, why would they spoil true UI's appearance [unless they already did]?

Also keep in mind that the image is accompanying the entire summary, not just the part about Beerus questioning his strength compared to Goku's. That's only a small part of the text that occurs after it already states that Goku masters Ultra Instinct in the episode.

So the context speaks about True UI Goku and then Beerus questions if Goku surpassed him?

Thanks. I appreciate it.

[Marlowe89]

So the context speaks about True UI Goku and then Beerus questions if Goku surpassed him?

Essentially, yeah. I don't know of anyone (including myself and others more experienced/fluent) who translated this scan and concluded that it was referring to Sign.

Not that it matters either way, because it seems to be cut dialogue regardless. I'm personally more interested in why it might have been removed from the show.

[Miracles]

So the context speaks about True UI Goku and then Beerus questions if Goku surpassed him?

Essentially, yeah. I don't know of anyone (including myself and others more experienced/fluent) who translated this scan and concluded that it was referring to Sign.

Not that it matters either way, because it seems to be cut dialogue regardless. I'm personally more interested in why it might have been removed from the show.

Ah, thanks for the clarification.
And yeah, the sequence itself isn't even in the canon anime/manga. So it really doesn't matter.

[Bullza]

I haven't read all this discussion but what you guys are getting at is that when Goku masters Ultra Instinct is when Beerus said he had surpassed him? And that got cut out?

If so then the final Ultra Instinct Omen Goku, Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta and God of Destruction Toppo would be beneath Beerus. I could probably believe that.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I haven't read all this discussion but what you guys are getting at is that when Goku masters Ultra Instinct is when Beerus said he had surpassed him? And that got cut out?

If so then the final Ultra Instinct Omen Goku, Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta and God of Destruction Toppo would be beneath Beerus. I could probably believe that.

It makes since that only a completed UI goku and jiren would be the ones to be at beerus level.

Tho its still possible that toppo and royal blue vegeta could be hakaishin tier, just beneath the strongest ones.

[ankokudaishogun]

It makes since that only a completed UI goku and jiren would be the ones to be at beerus level.

Limit Break Jiren~UI Goku>>Full Power Jiren>Bermoud

Either Beerus not having mastered UI means he can use the Complete UI but not for long
Or Beerus only has UI-Sign

Given the massive difference in power between UI Goku and Jiren, I'd say the latter is more likely: UI Beerus is probably about the level of Goku's 3rd UI-Sign

[ekrolo2]

I haven't read all this discussion but what you guys are getting at is that when Goku masters Ultra Instinct is when Beerus said he had surpassed him? And that got cut out?

If so then the final Ultra Instinct Omen Goku, Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta and God of Destruction Toppo would be beneath Beerus. I could probably believe that.

I feel like Beerus or Whis would've acknowledged things like EvoBlue Vegeta or Toppo being that strong.

[Bullza]

Yeah me too, they're probably God of Destruction level but it's not like they all have to be of the same strength.

I'd say only Goku and Jiren at the end where above Beerus. Toppo and Vegeta would be getting there but not yet.

[PFM18]

Yeah me too, they're probably God of Destruction level but it's not like they all have to be of the same strength.

I'd say only Goku and Jiren at the end where above Beerus. Toppo and Vegeta would be getting there but not yet.

Yeah of course. Goku and Jiren are clearly the only ones above Beerus, but the question is at what point did they surpass Beerus? was it when Goku achieved the 3rd UI Omen or was it when he had Completed UI? I think what was said in the magazine, even if apparently it seems it was retconned, It makes a lot of sense to me that 3rd UI Omen Goku~Beerus because he was pretty close to Jiren who is stronger than Belmod, who is stronger than Beerus.

[Son-Kakaroto]

Yeah me too, they're probably God of Destruction level but it's not like they all have to be of the same strength.

I'd say only Goku and Jiren at the end where above Beerus. Toppo and Vegeta would be getting there but not yet.

Yeah of course. Goku and Jiren are clearly the only ones above Beerus, but the question is at what point did they surpass Beerus? was it when Goku achieved the 3rd UI Omen or was it when he had Completed UI? I think what was said in the magazine, even if apparently it seems it was retconned, It makes a lot of sense to me that 3rd UI Omen Goku~Beerus because he was pretty close to Jiren who is stronger than Belmod, who is stronger than Beerus.

Yeah, I beleive so too. Because Blue E vegeta seemed to already rival berrus' power, and ui omen 3 is stronger then vegeta blue E.

[Miracles]

I haven't read all this discussion but what you guys are getting at is that when Goku masters Ultra Instinct is when Beerus said he had surpassed him? And that got cut out?

If so then the final Ultra Instinct Omen Goku, Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta and God of Destruction Toppo would be beneath Beerus. I could probably believe that.

The anime magazine has Beerus only question if he surpassed him as a mastered UI. However, it means nothing cause no line was in the canon. No where was it stated that Goku surpassed Beerus.

[PFM18]

I haven't read all this discussion but what you guys are getting at is that when Goku masters Ultra Instinct is when Beerus said he had surpassed him? And that got cut out?

If so then the final Ultra Instinct Omen Goku, Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta and God of Destruction Toppo would be beneath Beerus. I could probably believe that.

The anime magazine has Beerus only question if he surpassed him as a mastered UI. However it means nothing cause no line was in the canon.

Was it not meant to supplement the "canon"? That was my interpretation of the purpose of it.

[Miracles]

I haven't read all this discussion but what you guys are getting at is that when Goku masters Ultra Instinct is when Beerus said he had surpassed him? And that got cut out?

If so then the final Ultra Instinct Omen Goku, Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta and God of Destruction Toppo would be beneath Beerus. I could probably believe that.

The anime magazine has Beerus only question if he surpassed him as a mastered UI. However it means nothing cause no line was in the canon.

Was it not meant to supplement the "canon"? That was my interpretation of the purpose of it.

Nah cause the canon didn't ever confirm the power relationship between Beerus and Goku in the TOP at all. Which magazine was that from? Who approved it? It's meaningless in the grand scheme.

[PFM18]

Nah cause the canon didn't ever confirm the power relationship between Beerus and Goku in the TOP at all.

It doesn't need to. That's what "supplementary material" exists for.

[Miracles]

Nah cause the canon didn't ever confirm the power relationship between Beerus and Goku in the TOP at all.

It doesn't need to. That's what "supplementary material" exists for.

An important plot point for Goku surpassing his goal in Beerus, whom is waiting for his fated battle with an arch rival won't be casually brushed over by some unconfirmed magazine that everybody isn't going to read.

[PFM18]

Nah cause the canon didn't ever confirm the power relationship between Beerus and Goku in the TOP at all.

It doesn't need to. That's what "supplementary material" exists for.

An important plot point for Goku surpassing his goal in Beerus, whom is waiting for his fated battle with an arch rival won't be casually brushed over by some unconfirmed magazine that everybody isn't going to read.

I mean when he completed UI and clearly surpassed Beerus there was no comment made about it. The 3rd UI Omen isn't much different.

[Bullza]

I'd guess he passed Beerus with the third Ultra Instinct Omen towards the end.

Jiren was using his full power at that point so he should be above Beerus already there and just prior to Goku mastering Ultra Instinct he was beginning to overpower Jiren.