Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Jackalope89]

So, yeah. Trailer previews make Broly into a titan of power that would make even Jiren pause. And that's without going regular or legendary SSJ.

[MKCSTEALTH]

After the latest trailer, I think it's likely the fights in this movie will consist of

Base Broly (no rage amp) > Base Goku and Base Vegeta
God Goku and God Vegeta > Base Broly
Rage Broly > God Goku, God Vegeta, Golden Frieza
Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta > Rage Broly
SSJ Broly > Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta individually
Blue Goku and Vegeta teaming up > SSJ Broly
Full Power Broly > Blue Goku and Vegeta teaming up
Gogeta Blue >/= Full Power Broly
UI Goku > Weakened from Gogeta Full Power Broly

That's how I'm imagining the movie panning out. I would find it very odd if we don't see at least a few minutes of UI or even MUI Goku by the end to finish off a weakened Broly. I think the highlight of this movie will be Gogeta Blue vs Full Power Broly

what about SSBE and SSBKK? do you not think they'll appear? I think it could be:

Rage Broly~SSG Goku and Vegeta
SSJ Broly>SSB Goku and Vegeta
SSBE Vegeta and SSBKK Goku>SSJ Broly
LSSJ Broly>>>SSBE Vegeta and SSBKK Goku

I honestly don't think those two will make an appearance. It seems like the focus is going to be keeping Goku and Vegeta at Blue fighting together for Gogeta. It's always possible but I doubt it

[PFM18]

After the latest trailer, I think it's likely the fights in this movie will consist of

Base Broly (no rage amp) > Base Goku and Base Vegeta
God Goku and God Vegeta > Base Broly
Rage Broly > God Goku, God Vegeta, Golden Frieza
Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta > Rage Broly
SSJ Broly > Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta individually
Blue Goku and Vegeta teaming up > SSJ Broly
Full Power Broly > Blue Goku and Vegeta teaming up
Gogeta Blue >/= Full Power Broly
UI Goku > Weakened from Gogeta Full Power Broly

That's how I'm imagining the movie panning out. I would find it very odd if we don't see at least a few minutes of UI or even MUI Goku by the end to finish off a weakened Broly. I think the highlight of this movie will be Gogeta Blue vs Full Power Broly

what about SSBE and SSBKK? do you not think they'll appear? I think it could be:

Rage Broly~SSG Goku and Vegeta
SSJ Broly>SSB Goku and Vegeta
SSBE Vegeta and SSBKK Goku>SSJ Broly
LSSJ Broly>>>SSBE Vegeta and SSBKK Goku

I honestly don't think those two will make an appearance. It seems like the focus is going to be keeping Goku and Vegeta at Blue fighting together for Gogeta. It's always possible but I doubt it

Lol I've been hearing this so much but I hope they are wrong. it would fuck up continuity and scaling if Vegeta were to achieve a way stronger, higher version of SSB but just suddenly not use it.

[Freezerbaby]

what about SSBE and SSBKK? do you not think they'll appear? I think it could be:

Rage Broly~SSG Goku and Vegeta
SSJ Broly>SSB Goku and Vegeta
SSBE Vegeta and SSBKK Goku>SSJ Broly
LSSJ Broly>>>SSBE Vegeta and SSBKK Goku

I honestly don't think those two will make an appearance. It seems like the focus is going to be keeping Goku and Vegeta at Blue fighting together for Gogeta. It's always possible but I doubt it

Lol I've been hearing this so much but I hope they are wrong. it would fuck up continuity and scaling if Vegeta were to achieve a way stronger, higher version of SSB but just suddenly not use it.

Easy, they just will make him use a stronger version of ssb, one that equals to ssbe, just as standard cell games ssj vegeta was stronger than ascended ssj vegeta.

[PFM18]

I honestly don't think those two will make an appearance. It seems like the focus is going to be keeping Goku and Vegeta at Blue fighting together for Gogeta. It's always possible but I doubt it

Lol I've been hearing this so much but I hope they are wrong. it would fuck up continuity and scaling if Vegeta were to achieve a way stronger, higher version of SSB but just suddenly not use it.

Easy, they just will make him use a stronger version of ssb, one that equals to ssbe, just as standard cell games ssj vegeta was stronger than ascended ssj vegeta.

Uhh what makes you think that? what would this stronger version of SSB be? How could they do this in such a one-off way?

[Freezerbaby]

Lol I've been hearing this so much but I hope they are wrong. it would fuck up continuity and scaling if Vegeta were to achieve a way stronger, higher version of SSB but just suddenly not use it.

Easy, they just will make him use a stronger version of ssb, one that equals to ssbe, just as standard cell games ssj vegeta was stronger than ascended ssj vegeta.

Uhh what makes you think that? what would this stronger version of SSB be? How could they do this in such a one-off way?

Because for the movie, they appear to want the manga and anime to converge in terms of transformations and stuff like that, the trailer showing ssg vegeta and not showing at all ssbkk-ssbe proves that imo.

It doesn´t have to be in a one-off way, just have vegeta stating that he is been training since the top, getting stronger while in ssb thus no need for ssbe anymore.

[PFM18]

Easy, they just will make him use a stronger version of ssb, one that equals to ssbe, just as standard cell games ssj vegeta was stronger than ascended ssj vegeta.

Uhh what makes you think that? what would this stronger version of SSB be? How could they do this in such a one-off way?

Because for the movie, they appear to want the manga and anime to converge in terms of transformations and stuff like that, the trailer showing ssg vegeta and not showing at all ssbkk-ssbe proves that imo.

It doesn´t have to be in a one-off way, just have vegeta stating that he is been training since the top, getting stronger while in ssb thus no need for ssbe anymore.

The fact that SSG is in the movie doesn't really say much of anything. The way RoF described SSB, it appears that SSG is a prerequisite to SSB. SSG is a reflection of God Ki and SSB is SSJ+God Ki.

If Vegeta got stronger as a SSB, wouldn't that just make SSBE that much stronger? If they were to find some convoluted way to write out SSBE, they need to actually acknowledge it, and explain it away instead of ignoring it.

[Freezerbaby]

Uhh what makes you think that? what would this stronger version of SSB be? How could they do this in such a one-off way?

Because for the movie, they appear to want the manga and anime to converge in terms of transformations and stuff like that, the trailer showing ssg vegeta and not showing at all ssbkk-ssbe proves that imo.

It doesn´t have to be in a one-off way, just have vegeta stating that he is been training since the top, getting stronger while in ssb thus no need for ssbe anymore.

The fact that SSG is in the movie doesn't really say much of anything. The way RoF described SSB, it appears that SSG is a prerequisite to SSB. SSG is a reflection of God Ki and SSB is SSJ+God Ki.

If Vegeta got stronger as a SSB, wouldn't that just make SSBE that much stronger? If they were to find some convoluted way to write out SSBE, they need to actually acknowledge it, and explain it away instead of ignoring it.

SSG Vegeta has been only shown in the manga, that ´s why I said that they seemingly want to pleased both anime and manga fans as the movie is a different product meant to hit higher audience.

I get the feeling that they will get rid of ssbe with no explanation whatsoever just as we got no explanation about enraged ssj trunks being blue tier. In fact, the only thing I could expect is something along the lines of "ssbe drains too much stamina,it´s better get stronger as raw ssb".

[PFM18]

SSG Vegeta has been only shown in the manga, that ´s why I said that they seemingly want to pleased both anime and manga fans as the movie is a different product meant to hit higher audience.

Yeah obviously, but like I said it existed in the anime it was implied to be q prereq for SSB but they had just never decided to use it until now. It doesn't say much about the manga because we aren't somehow under the impression that SSG just appeared just to pander to a larger audience that includes the manga fans. It doesn't even come out of nowhere because we already knew Goku had access to it so why not Vegeta?

get the feeling that they will get rid of ssbe with no explanation whatsoever just as we got no explanation about enraged ssj trunks being blue tier. In fact, the only thing I could expect is something along the lines of "ssbe drains too much stamina,it´s better get stronger as raw ssb".

Yeah I'm pretty sure if they don't' show SSBE, it'll be without an explanation and they'll pretend this super strong form Vegeta achieved just never existed in the first place. I hope it does appear or we do get some kind of explanation because otherwise continuity is fucked.

[Marlowe89]

I think we're taking this "continuity" thing too far.

DBS is Toriyama's story first and foremost. Its anime and manga adaptations are interpretations of his story by people who aren't Toriyama, both introducing concepts that weren't his ideas (such as Blue Evolution). Broly is the first purely unfiltered Toriyama story we've had since the Resurrection 'F' film way back in 2015.

If we pretend that we're not living in Goku's fictional universe for a moment, I think it makes perfect sense that the latest film wouldn't necessarily play by the rules of the anime or the manga.

[RecolorSaiyan]

SSBE wasn’t on the character sheet , I think that was all the proof needed to know it won’t be in the movie

[Miracles]

I think we're taking this "continuity" thing too far.

DBS is Toriyama's story first and foremost. Its anime and manga adaptations are interpretations of his story by people who aren't Toriyama, both introducing concepts that weren't his ideas (such as Blue Evolution). Broly is the first purely unfiltered Toriyama story we've had since the Resurrection 'F' film way back in 2015.

If we pretend that we're not living in Goku's fictional universe for a moment, I think it makes perfect sense that the latest film wouldn't necessarily play by the rules of the anime or the manga.

Well said. Toriyama's view of his story is finally being told "as is."

SSBE wasn’t on the character sheet , I think that was all the proof needed to know it won’t be in the movie

Neither is Ultra Instinct but it's still possible due to somebody saying Goku's hero card is going to change for the movie.

[PFM18]

DBS is Toriyama's story first and foremost. Its anime and manga adaptations are interpretations of his story by people who aren't Toriyama, both introducing concepts that weren't his ideas (such as Blue Evolution). Broly is the first purely unfiltered Toriyama story we've had since the Resurrection 'F' film way back in 2015..

Sure, but Toriyama oversees the manga and the anime as they adapt his story, and both iterations of the ToP featured Vegeta gaining a huge power-up at the end towards the climax. Clearly, Toriyama either originally intended this to be the case or he gave the seal of approval on both of them, so would this not be part of "Toriyama's story"? I mean, whether it be Blue Evolution or otherwise, he clearly wanted Vegeta to get a big power-up recently in the story. If the movie just kind of pretends this never happened, that is a problem.

[RecolorSaiyan]

I think we're taking this "continuity" thing too far.

DBS is Toriyama's story first and foremost. Its anime and manga adaptations are interpretations of his story by people who aren't Toriyama, both introducing concepts that weren't his ideas (such as Blue Evolution). Broly is the first purely unfiltered Toriyama story we've had since the Resurrection 'F' film way back in 2015.

If we pretend that we're not living in Goku's fictional universe for a moment, I think it makes perfect sense that the latest film wouldn't necessarily play by the rules of the anime or the manga.

Well said.

Since this is Toriyama's version without any outside additions we have SSJ1 being used rather than SSJ2 and SSJ3 cause it raises Goku's strength more and saps less energy.
We have SSJG Vegeta whom Toriyama himself supervised in the manga.
We have regular SSJ Blue, where Toriyama himself originally had strong enough to handle merged Zamas.

So I'm all for the forms in this movie. They are just stronger than the TOP variations.

SSBE wasn’t on the character sheet , I think that was all the proof needed to know it won’t be in the movie

Neither is Ultra Instinct but it's still possible due to somebody saying Goku's hero card is going to change for the movie.

yeah But ui isn't something goku can use at will and its basically the ultimate power.
SSBE is something vegeta used at will in the ToP and its not the ultimate power that would beat broly as we saw it fail vs jiren

[RecolorSaiyan]

Toriyama Draft : "Vegeta evolves SSB in the ToP" or "Vegeta breaks his limits"

Toyo and Toei did different things and Toriyama APPROVED because they don't hurt his overall narrative that vegeta also got a lot stronger however that may not be what he would do.

Instead of having vegeta get a new aura/new form like the adaptations did, he might have just made regular ssb vegeta powerup "x fold" and leave it at that.

[PFM18]

.Instead of having vegeta get a new aura/new form like the adaptations did, he might have just made regular ssb vegeta powerup "x fold" and leave it at that.

It just needs to be addressed at some point. That would be fine, they just can't ignore it.

[Freezerbaby]

After rewatching the third trailer ssbe is definitely not appearing in the movie, vegeta´s clothes are ripped apart so even when pushed to his limits he is still using ssb, same as goku, no ssbkk.

I´ve been looking up some theories, it looks like freeza is actually the one who is controlling Broly, letting Paragus give the orders to his son, that´s why in the first trailer he said "what the" because he gets betrayed at the end, with the volcanic background so it seems he fights Broly at the end of the movie not at the beginning, maybe he deceive Paragus by teling him King vegeta tried to killed them both so that´s the reason Broly face vegeta first.

[PFM18]

After rewatching the third trailer ssbe is definitely not appearing in the movie, vegeta´s clothes are ripped apart so even when pushed to his limits he is still using ssb, same as goku, no ssbkk.

Yeah, unfortunately that looks like the case. Unless in the actual movie he is using SSBE but they didn't want to spoil that in the trailer. I don't know, I still have hope

[Son-Kakaroto]

After rewatching the third trailer ssbe is definitely not appearing in the movie, vegeta´s clothes are ripped apart so even when pushed to his limits he is still using ssb, same as goku, no ssbkk.

Yeah, unfortunately that looks like the case. Unless in the actual movie he is using SSBE but they didn't want to spoil that in the trailer. I don't know, I still have hope

Why do you care so much if ssbE is in the movie? All that means is the show is going to re-tell the arc once it comes back and the movie will be its own continuity, seperate from the manga, and in likelhood the returining anime....

[PFM18]

After rewatching the third trailer ssbe is definitely not appearing in the movie, vegeta´s clothes are ripped apart so even when pushed to his limits he is still using ssb, same as goku, no ssbkk.

Yeah, unfortunately that looks like the case. Unless in the actual movie he is using SSBE but they didn't want to spoil that in the trailer. I don't know, I still have hope

Why do you care so much if ssbE is in the movie? All that means is the show is going to re-tell the arc once it comes back and the movie will be its own continuity, seperate from the manga, and in likelhood the returining anime....

Because if Vegeta achieves a new super powerful form that allows him to defeat a God of Destruction, and then inconspicuously doesn't use it in the next story arc, that's a problem. It fucks with the continuity of things especially when it comes to power scaling.

If they do an anime retelling though this won't be a problem. They could also add the other half of Toriyama's scirpt in there too.