Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Lord Beerus
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:01 pm

Two things that the jury is still out on for me are:

1. Freeza giving up immortality for a nonsensical wish
2. Bardock sending Goku to Earth for his safety

The second being something that I was praying would be altered in someway. But the Freeza's wish seems to indicated that perhaps Toriyama is laying the foundation for Freeza becoming somewhat less evil. And I don't know what to think about that. My worst fear is that it may just be a gag that's written a vacuum and any stories going forward featuring Freeza will just have his character motivation reset to wanting to overthrow the Gods and Zeno.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Luso Saiyan » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:03 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:The second being something that I was praying would be altered in someway.
Why would that, of all things, be altered? It's true to Toriyama's intentions.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Dbzk1999 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:05 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Two things that the jury is still out on for me are:

1. Freeza giving up immortality for a nonsensical wish
2. Bardock sending Goku to Earth for his safety

The second being something that I was praying would be altered in someway. But the Freeza's wish seems to indicated that perhaps Toriyama is laying the foundation for Freeza becoming somewhat less evil. And I don't know what to think about that. My worst fear is that i tmay just be gag that's written a vacuum and any stories going forward featuring Freeza will just have his character motivation reset to wanting to overthrow the Gods and Zeno.
Not sure bout making him less evil, I mean, the guy still does murder Paragus for the soul purpose of making Broly turn ssj
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Lord Frieza » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:07 pm

Dbzk1999 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Two things that the jury is still out on for me are:

1. Freeza giving up immortality for a nonsensical wish
2. Bardock sending Goku to Earth for his safety

The second being something that I was praying would be altered in someway. But the Freeza's wish seems to indicated that perhaps Toriyama is laying the foundation for Freeza becoming somewhat less evil. And I don't know what to think about that. My worst fear is that i tmay just be gag that's written a vacuum and any stories going forward featuring Freeza will just have his character motivation reset to wanting to overthrow the Gods and Zeno.
Not sure bout making him less evil, I mean, the guy still does murder Paragus for the soul purpose of making Broly turn ssj
Hell I'd say it's pretty god dame evil to kill a man, just to piss off his son and make him turn into a monster all because you want to wish to be a 5cms taller.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:08 pm

Luso Saiyan wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:The second being something that I was praying would be altered in someway.
Why would that, of all things, be altered? It's true to Toriyama's intentions.
Sometimes Toriayam's intentions can be fucking awful.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:10 pm

I would be so mad if Freeza turns into a good guy after this. They better not throw away his plot to overthrow Zeno and rest of the divine hierarchy.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:11 pm

Luso Saiyan wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:The second being something that I was praying would be altered in someway.
Why would that, of all things, be altered? It's true to Toriyama's intentions.
Just because Toriyama intends it doesn't make it good.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:12 pm

zarmack wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
zarmack wrote:
When people say things like "its faster than a horse" or "its stronger than a bear" they obviously mean all cars and bears, not just some particular ones.

So that argument for Beerus still being stronger than Jiren doesn't make any sense.
This would be an apt analogy if it was stated that all the Hakaishin had the exact same in strength in the story --- which it doesn't.
Horse's and bears don't all have the same stats in real life either, so that rebuttal doesn't work.
So what point are you trying to make? The story states that Jiren is stronger than a Hakaishin, which doesn't translate to all the Hakaishin, no matter how hard you want to twist that fact.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:12 pm

Nickolaidas wrote:Yeah. Also, the fact is that Commander Red made sense, in a way. He reveals his desire to get taller after numerous scenes of showing he had a problem with his height (asking painters to draw him like a giant, even though he was a dwarf, etc.)

Frieza, on the other hand, never expressed any desire to get taller, never commented on his height, never had shown any kind of problem with it. Him desiring to get taller is extremely bad because the only reason he wants to do it is … I don't know - FUCK IT!! And that's what makes it bad, while Commander Red's made perfect sense.
Now that I think of it, you're right. I don't remember how many of those scenes were anime filler versus what was in the manga, but either way, there was build up to the gag. Here with Freeza, it's basically the punch-line without the joke being told first, it's pay-off without any paying-in first, so it just feels like it...doesn't work.

Again, everything else I'm pretty much fine with I think. Especially the Minus stuff from the sounds of it, because it sounds like they flesh it out fairly well to make it flow a little better (as well as combining it with the most defining element of the Bardock special).
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Big Black Sayian » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:14 pm

zarmack wrote:I would be so mad if Freeza turns into a good guy after this. They better not throw away his plot to overthrow Zeno and rest of the divine hierarchy.
I mean how can he st this point. Everyone keeps kicking his ass

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Luso Saiyan » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:15 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Sometimes Toriayam's intentions can be fucking awful.
zarmack wrote:Just because Toriyama intends it doesn't make it good.
Subjective preferences are irrelevant to what the story is meant to be. And what the story is meant to be is up to Toriyama, not any of us or our taste.

They made it perfectly clear from the start that Minus was going to be taken into account. It shouldn't come as a surprise that they stick to it.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:17 pm

His plot to overthrow zeno was never going anywhere and based on the spoilers, doesn't seem like toriyama seemed to care for the tease that toei gave in the ToP

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:17 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
zarmack wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: This would be an apt analogy if it was stated that all the Hakaishin had the exact same in strength in the story --- which it doesn't.
Horse's and bears don't all have the same stats in real life either, so that rebuttal doesn't work.
So what point are you trying to make? The story states that Jiren is stronger than a Hakaishin, which doesn't translate to all the Hakaishin, no matter how hard you want to twist that fact.
Its you that's twisting the facts, since statements like "stronger than a Hakaishin" obviously means all of them, like how "faster than a cheetah" clearly means faster than any cheetah.

Plus, we already had confirmation months earlier that 3rd Omen Goku > Beerus, and that Goku was still weaker than Jiren and Broly was confirmed to be stronger than Jiren.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:19 pm

Luso Saiyan wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Sometimes Toriayam's intentions can be fucking awful.
zarmack wrote:Just because Toriyama intends it doesn't make it good.
Subjective preferences are irrelevant to what the story is meant to be. And what the story is meant to be is up to Toriyama, not any of us or our taste.
Quality is objective, not subjective. You sound like Toriyama is somehow beyond criticism when he isn't.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Lukmendes » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:22 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote:Now that I think of it, you're right. I don't remember how many of those scenes were anime filler versus what was in the manga, but either way, there was build up to the gag. Here with Freeza, it's basically the punch-line without the joke being told first, it's pay-off without any paying-in first, so it just feels like it...doesn't work.
In the manga there's at least one scene about this, with him complaining about Commander Black being too close to him because it makes him look short.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Burakku » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:22 pm

So these little questions

- so what role played Chirai stealing the device?
- So Broly has still his tail because of Ikari?
- Tarble is canon?
- what about the Cooler rumor?
- and there isn't more to Freeza giving up on his original wish? Character destroyed
- Does Broly want to revive his dad as he should know about the DBs?
- Baby Vegeta a highter power level as Broly?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Burakku » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:22 pm

double post
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:23 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:Yeah. Also, the fact is that Commander Red made sense, in a way. He reveals his desire to get taller after numerous scenes of showing he had a problem with his height (asking painters to draw him like a giant, even though he was a dwarf, etc.)

Frieza, on the other hand, never expressed any desire to get taller, never commented on his height, never had shown any kind of problem with it. Him desiring to get taller is extremely bad because the only reason he wants to do it is … I don't know - FUCK IT!! And that's what makes it bad, while Commander Red's made perfect sense.
Now that I think of it, you're right. I don't remember how many of those scenes were anime filler versus what was in the manga, but either way, there was build up to the gag. Here with Freeza, it's basically the punch-line without the joke being told first, it's pay-off without any paying-in first, so it just feels like it...doesn't work.

Again, everything else I'm pretty much fine with I think. Especially the Minus stuff from the sounds of it, because it sounds like they flesh it out fairly well to make it flow a little better (as well as combining it with the most defining element of the Bardock special).
Yeah, there was subtle build-up in the manga to Commander Red wanting to wish to being taller.

It seems out of place for Freeza to wanting something some inconsequential as to be taller. Unless this is the point where Toriyama wants to lay down the foundation for Freeza integrating into the cast as perhaps an anti-villain or anti-hero.

Or perhaps it's just a gag for the sake of it. Which could be terrible...

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:23 pm

Burakku wrote:So these little questions

- so what role played Chirai stealing the device?
- So Broly has still his tail because of Ikari?
- Tarble is canon?
- what about the Cooler rumor?
- and there isn't more to Freeza giving up on his original wish? Character destroyed
- Does Broly want to revive his dad as he should know about the DBs?
- Baby Vegeta a highter power level as Broly?
You posted the same thing twice. Delete one of them

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BlueBasilisk » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:25 pm

Does Frieza get his wish? I haven't really heard confirmation either way.

But based on what I'm reading it sounds like the movie did what I expected with regards to which continuity it follows. That is, a middle of the road approach that only utilizes the common elements shared between the two but doesn't specifically reference events or forms that would be exclusive to one or the other.

Like the ToP fighters: Jiren, Hit, Caulifla, Kale and Ribrianne. All of those characters were significant fighters in the anime and Goku faced off against them all multiple times except for Hit, who he never fought in either version. Goku didn't fight Caulifla or Ribrianne in the manga but they were all significant characters who got at least a chapter of focus.

Or the forms: Super Saiyan, God and Blue, all shared between the anime and manga but from the sounds of it there's no Kaioken, no SSBE, no auraless complete/mastered SSB and not the off-brand SSBE or KK that appeared in the manga a couple chapters back. Just regular old Super Saiyan Blue.

I like that approach. Fans who have only watched the anime or read the manga could watch the movie and feel like it follows from the story they read/watched. Plus anime fans get SSG Vegeta. I think that's a fair way to cater to all fasn I'm sure that if/when Toei eventually does a Broly Arc we'll see KK and Evolution return just as I'm sure we'll see Toyotaro's original content carry into the manga. :thumbup:

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