Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Lord Beerus
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:31 pm

zarmack wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
zarmack wrote:
Horse's and bears don't all have the same stats in real life either, so that rebuttal doesn't work.
So what point are you trying to make? The story states that Jiren is stronger than a Hakaishin, which doesn't translate to all the Hakaishin, no matter how hard you want to twist that fact.
Its you that's twisting the facts, since statements like "stronger than a Hakaishin" obviously means all of them, like how "faster than a cheetah" clearly means faster than any cheetah.

Plus, we already had confirmation months earlier that 3rd Omen Goku > Beerus, and that Goku was still weaker than Jiren and Broly was confirmed to be stronger than Jiren.
At what stage does the story say all the Hakaishin are the same strength? When is it even implied to be the case? The most we see of the Hakishin are brief skirmishes that are too short to draw on any conclusion about who is stronger than who. It's even more jarring to come to this conclusion considering how the Core People/Shin-jin (the race from which the Kaio and Kaioshin derive from) vary widely in strength.

And when in the story was is stated that 3rd Omen Goku > Beerus?

I think it's best take this conversation to this thread.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Luso Saiyan » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:32 pm

zarmack wrote:Quality is objective, not subjective.
Wrong, it is subjective. Your taste and judgement is subjective and fortunately nobody is beholden to it. Just like you are not beholden to my taste and judgement of the quality of any artistic work.
zarmack wrote:You sound like Toriyama is somehow beyond criticism when he isn't.
No, I don't. You can criticize him as many times as you want. You can express your distaste for his work. But what the story is won't change nor should it change just because you, or anyone else, doesn't like it. Specially when they made it clear that they were going to adapt his story.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:35 pm

Ken Xyro said there is no comment about Broly > Beerus in the movie. It never happened.
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."~Psalm 14:1

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:39 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:His plot to overthrow zeno was never going anywhere and based on the spoilers, doesn't seem like toriyama seemed to care for the tease that toei gave in the ToP
Then Toriyama just wasted Freeza if that was the case. There was no point in bringing back Freeza if he's not going to be a threat again.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:40 pm

Miracles wrote:Ken Xyro said there is no comment about Broly > Beerus in the movie. It never happened.
He also said he couldn't remember what forms Gogeta used at all, and he started this rumor about Cooler being in the movie. And every other source mentions it.

It DID happen. Get over it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:41 pm

zarmack wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:His plot to overthrow zeno was never going anywhere and based on the spoilers, doesn't seem like toriyama seemed to care for the tease that toei gave in the ToP
Then Toriyama just wasted Freeza if that was the case. There was no point in bringing back Freeza if he's not going to be a threat again.
That plan was anime only anyways. Nothing of the sort was mentioned in the manga except that he wanted revenge on Saiyans

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by IM21 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:41 pm

Miracles wrote:Ken Xyro said there is no comment about Broly > Beerus in the movie. It never happened.
it's never said that he is stronger, it's said that he might be stronger. Goku also doesn't know how strong Beerus really is so who cares about this statement.
Last edited by IM21 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Shaddy » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:42 pm

Okay, I have some thoughts about all this:
Mage of Blood yeets pizza wrote:Satanism is just Atheism wearing a funny hat
bjm knhhjnbguv cxkjmn bl,v wrote:Go yiff yourself

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:43 pm

zarmack wrote:Quality is objective, not subjective.
You're kidding right?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by HeroR » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:45 pm

PFM18 wrote:
zarmack wrote:Quality is objective, not subjective.
You're kidding right?
He's not wrong.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Burakku » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:46 pm

And how many time has the fusion failed.

Some.spoilers say 3 times but what would be a failed 3rd fusion?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:46 pm

Luso Saiyan wrote:
zarmack wrote:Quality is objective, not subjective.
Wrong, it is subjective. Your taste and judgement is subjective and fortunately nobody is beholden to it. Just like you are not beholden to my taste and judgement of the quality of any artistic work.
zarmack wrote:You sound like Toriyama is somehow beyond criticism when he isn't.
No, I don't. You can criticize him as many times as you want. You can express your distaste for his work. But what the story is won't change nor should it change just because you, or anyone else, doesn't like it. Specially when they made it clear that they were going to adapt his story.
If quality isn't objective then that means all DB media is equally good or bad, which is clearly false. It would also mean that the The Room by Tommy Wiseau is a just as good film as The Godfather, which is clearly not true lmao.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:47 pm

HeroR wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
zarmack wrote:Quality is objective, not subjective.
You're kidding right?
He's not wrong.
He is. Quality is one of the most subjective things out there. It is based on your own personal interpretation of the events and how that ties into your personal opinion on all of the different facets of a story that makes up the quality of it.

You can try to be more objective by remaining unbiased, but quality is ultimately subjective and varies from person to person in what they think about it. You can't objectively say somebody is wrong about quality, and that in and of itself makes it subjective.
If quality isn't objective then that means all DB media is equally good or bad, which is clearly false. It would also mean that the The Room by Tommy Wiseau is a just as good film as The Godfather, which is clearly not true lmao.
That isn't even remotely what that means? I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. Deducing that something is inherently subjective does not somehow indicate that everything under that umbrella is the same.
Last edited by PFM18 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ssj4 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:49 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
zarmack wrote:
sunsetshimmer wrote:
It makes SSJ Blue really weak form considering SSJ4 was stated to have multiplier comparable to potara fusion (+SSJ) which would mean SSJ Blue has far lower multiplier.
It doesn't make sense tho because it would mean SSJG was pointless against Beerus and SSJ Vegito would do a lot better. DBS owned itself once again.
No it doesn't. SSJ4's multiplier was nowhere stated nor implied to be nowhere near to potara fusions. That guide you are referring to merely point out that Buu arc Vegito was "perhaps stronger than a SSJ4", which suggest that SSJ4 much weaker than you think, while SSB is at least 50x SSG (since its SSJ x SSG).
It never said anythng about Buu arc Vegito. It was about Vegito overall.
Super Baby 1 was already stated to be stronger than Vegito and he was shit compared to SSJ4 Goku, so you're wrong.
And if base Gogeta is strongr than SSJ Blue it either retcons SSJ God being stronger than Vegito pretty much making SSJ4 far superior to Blue or it retcons statement about potara fusion being superior and just makes Gogeta far stronger than Vegito.
ssj4 wrote:
IM21 wrote:So Broly becomes a friend at the end... I am not surprised, but this series really needs some villains. This is getting boring.
What is this? MLP/EQG?
Lol pretty much
So both DBZ and EQG suffer from a lack of villains/too many reformed villains.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:50 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Miracles wrote:Ken Xyro said there is no comment about Broly > Beerus in the movie. It never happened.
He also said he couldn't remember what forms Gogeta used at all, and he started this rumor about Cooler being in the movie. And every other source mentions it.

It DID happen. Get over it.
Do you think I'm gonna listen to a headcannon specialist like you who already made up Jiren being stronger than Beerus?
IM21 wrote:
Miracles wrote:Ken Xyro said there is no comment about Broly > Beerus in the movie. It never happened.
it's never said that he is stronger, it's said that he might be stronger. Goku also doesn't know how strong Beerus really is so who cares about this statement.
I didn't know it was just another useless question. People were saying it was blatantly stated that Broly was stronger than Beerus. Like they falsey claimed about Jiren.
I'll wait for official subs. The DB fandom likes to push their bias.

You know how bad the DB fandom can be.
Last edited by Miracles on Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by The Patrolman » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:52 pm

Sooooooo Freeza kinda serves no purpose in the movie
The Last Jedi is a terrible movie

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:52 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:
zarmack wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:His plot to overthrow zeno was never going anywhere and based on the spoilers, doesn't seem like toriyama seemed to care for the tease that toei gave in the ToP
Then Toriyama just wasted Freeza if that was the case. There was no point in bringing back Freeza if he's not going to be a threat again.
That plan was anime only anyways. Nothing of the sort was mentioned in the manga except that he wanted revenge on Saiyans
Which proves once again that Toei is much more ambitious with Dragonball than Toriyama is, especially since Battle of Gods (compare Toei's original ideas for the film with Toriyama's changes to it that resulted in the film we got in 2013).

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Lukmendes » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:53 pm

Burakku wrote:And how many time has the fusion failed.

Some.spoilers say 3 times but what would be a failed 3rd fusion?
I only heard of two, those being a fat and a skinny one, then they manage it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by HeroR » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:53 pm

PFM18 wrote:
HeroR wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
You're kidding right?
He's not wrong.
He is. Quality is one of the most subjective things out there. It is based on your own personal interpretation of the events and how that ties into your personal opinion on all of the different facets of a story that makes up the quality of it.

You can try to be more objective by remaining unbiased, but quality is ultimately subjective and varies from person to person in what they think about it. You can't objectively say somebody is wrong about quality, and that in and of itself makes it subjective.
Quality is subjective. You can have a film that is good in that direction well, have good acting, have an interesting story and conclusion. So it paper, it's a quality film, but no one wants to see it because it's boring, despite everything on paper saying that the film is good. We see this with many Oscar films. Movie that are indeed great quality, but moviegoing didn't see it because they rather watch Transformers.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Grimlock » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:53 pm

So, if Toriyama's version of Bardock vs Freeza is too different from the TV Special's version, I wonder how games will handle it from now on. :think:

Maybe they will mix up the two somehow? Anxious to see Toriyama's and games' take on the matter! :D

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