Dragon Ball needs a New Generation?

[BWri]

I've been waiting for an anime based on this for nearly 10 years. This is the only natural place to take DB after, when nearly all the characters we know and love are dead and gone and a new generation with limited ties to the past begin an adventure anew. I want a DBO anime so so much. The whole Groundbreaking Science concept is just so amazing and expands the Dragon Ball world in such a unique way. Plus look at this potential cast. Don't they just look fun and adventurous? Like DQ meets DB.

Though we have that golden stuff to be explored, I'm sure we are fine with just retellings, tournaments and bringing back old and unnecessary villains instead.

Lmao! Your sarcasm is showing. I'm okay with stuff for now. I just hope they are planning something big like a DBO-esque anime somewhere down the line. I don't want DBO exactly, because it relies on the past too much IMO with the Time Patrol storyline. That's kinda cool for maybe an arc or two, but I'm more interested in a brand new cast and a fresh look at the world which is starting to feel smaller and smaller somehow even with the various multiverses.

[BWri]

This might be a fairly controversial opinion, but I would immediately lose all interest in DB if Goku and co. were no longer the focus. To me, Dragon Ball IS Goku. It IS this specific cast of characters. I don't think people realize just how utterly generic and bland the world of Dragon Ball really is. There is nothing that sets it apart from contemporaries. I think the major reason people are invested is because of this large cast of characters we've grown up with over several decades, and if you take those away, you're left with nothing but a dry husk of a shonen where spiky haired buff guys throw generic energy blasts at each other.

The hard truth, to me anyway, is that Dragon Ball brings nothing unique to the shonen table anymore other than it's current characters. You take that away, and there is no reason I would have to watch the show anymore. I can get better fights in other animes. I can get better writing in other animes. I can get better production value, music, pacing, etc. in other animes. I can get literally better ANYTHING in other animes. The only trump card this show still has is its characters.

Long story short, people overestimate how interesting the universe of DB is, and they underestimate the value this specific set of characters brings to the table.

You could always create new interesting characters and hire a completely different development team for a next-gen DB series.

Yes, you COULD do that. But Toei have proven to me that they are utterly incapable of introducing new characters and making them compelling.

And hell, even if they DID manage to bring us a totally new, well written cast, that still doesn't really address my issues, because like I said, at that point I would just go somewhere that has well written characters AND better combat, story, lore, etc. The only thing keeping me here at this point is the main cast I grew up with because frankly...DB just isn't all that interesting without Goku and friends.

Like I said, I don't really expect this to be an opinion shared by many people, but it's just my brutal honesty.

I agree with a lot of what you said, Artorias, specifically about the characters but I do think that the DB style of action is still unique even amongst the current crop of shounen. As far as big fights go, still to this day, nobody does them like Dragon Ball and that'll always be the draw. Even as the storytelling in DB wanes, we still get big fight spectacles that provide thrills that seemingly can't be replicated by other anime. I've watched other big fights in other anime, but DB fights are on a whole other scale. Its probably just internet hype culture getting to me, but DB fights just always have that "big fight" feel to them. I mean, I've watched All Might vs. All For One, I've watched Saitama vs. Boros, and that stuff is amazing but it never reaches the highs of a Goku vs. Jiren to me.

For me, the stuff in the YYH Dark Tournament comes close because its so similar to the DBZ style of things, but while I'll put YYH ahead of DB any day of the week in just about every category, DB action beats it just about every time.

Also, even though the power set in DB has mostly been the same since the end of the original series, it still uses those powers in fight choreography that is typically unique of DB or even uniquely DB. DB could be considered generic by today's standards, but you have to keep in mind that it started most of today's shounen trends. It's working in the framework that it basically created. It's doing a decent job at it and despite my complaints it is pushing the envelope in a lot of ways. All it needs is a deeper look into what's already there to satisfy fans like me and to keep things fresh for new fans.

[Faisal Shourov]

Goku is arguably more iconic than Dragon Ball itself. He is by far the most loved character in the show. It's not like Naruto where many fans had their favorite characters other than the MC. Many Naruto fans liked Kakashi, Sasuke, Itachi etc over Naruto himself (tons of viewers disliked Naruto as well). Goku is much, much more popular than other DB characters, the show is made for Goku. Goku is not part of the plot (like Naruto), the plot is part of Goku. The show wouldn't be relevant without him. It's not possible to enjoy DB without Goku and co. You can enjoy plenty of anime without their MC in the face, not DB.

[Acetona]

I mean, I've watched All Might vs. All For One, I've watched Saitama vs. Boros, and that stuff is amazing but it never reaches the highs of a Goku vs. Jiren to me.

While I agree about All Might vs All for One (I haven't seen the anime but the manga wasn't memorable at all), it's nuts to put Goku vs Jiren above Saitama vs Boros. Saitama didn't have some corny friendship monologue that's way too out of character. And DB fights aren't as unique as they were on the 80's and 90's anymore. There are couple of anime with similar action nowadays, like Precure.

[zarmack]

Goku is arguably more iconic than Dragon Ball itself. He is by far the most loved character in the show. It's not like Naruto where many fans had their favorite characters other than the MC. Many Naruto fans liked Kakashi, Sasuke, Itachi etc over Naruto himself (tons of viewers disliked Naruto as well). Goku is much, much more popular than other DB characters, the show is made for Goku. Goku is not part of the plot (like Naruto), the plot is part of Goku. The show wouldn't be relevant without him. It's not possible to enjoy DB without Goku and co. You can enjoy plenty of anime without their MC in the face, not DB.

You are extremely overrating Goku's popularity relative to other DB characters. The only time Goku has ever scored #1 on a popularity poll when the original manga was still running was the Buu Saga, and there are many DB fan polls since then that have other characters ranking over Goku. You are also ignoring the fact that a large section of the DB fandom (some of which are here in the Kanzenshuu forums) doesn't like Goku at all. And most DB fans that do like Goku don't necessarily put him as their #1 favorite.

And most DB references and influences on pop culture are not directly linked to Goku himself, so there's no way in hell Goku is more iconic than DB itself. Also, your Naruto argument fails completely because Naruto is generally the most popular character in that franchise. In fact, he's ranked #1 in Naruto fan polls far more often than Goku is in DB fan polls.

[Tai Lung]

I mean, I've watched All Might vs. All For One, I've watched Saitama vs. Boros, and that stuff is amazing but it never reaches the highs of a Goku vs. Jiren to me.

While I agree about All Might vs All for One (I haven't seen the anime but the manga wasn't memorable at all), it's nuts to put Goku vs Jiren above Saitama vs Boros. Saitama didn't have some corny friendship monologue that's way too out of character. And DB fights aren't as unique as they were on the 80's and 90's anymore. There are couple of anime with similar action nowadays, like Precure.

I do not think so, the point of making emphasis on teamwork in the tournament, where it is important the "team work" and to show that all the people that meet goku contributed to get to where it now is, is quite adequate
it had already been done before when were tried to make the earthlings and friends of goku relevant with the spirit bomb in the buu arc
I also like more the goku vs jiren lol

[TheOne]

Not sure why this isn’t assumed. I’ve been preaching this entire time that there will be some sort of set up for the next generation after they run out of fights for Goku and Vegeta. That’s the only legitimate reason to go from passing the torch to goten and trunks, to setting them aside for the time being while they write more about Goku and friends. Which could be another reason they decided to scale back gotenks strength wise (not likely...)


Unfortunately most of the people who watch this show are just unbelievably impatient, so they cry because the younger generation isn’t being utilized and think they’re being “wasted” instead of being reserved. Smh

[Majin Buu]

No. Dragon Ball doesn't need a new generation. What Dragon Ball needs is to be allowed to just be over and done with, not artificially kept alive as a creatively bankrupt franchise zombie.

[AnimeNation101]

No. Dragon Ball doesn't need a new generation. What Dragon Ball needs is to be allowed to just be over and done with, not artificially kept alive as a creatively bankrupt franchise zombie.

But we all know that aint gonna happen so its better to come up with an idea that could improve the franchise rather than let it stay at its quality. Because again, its not goin anywhere

[AnimeNation101]

The problem here is, people will need to compromise.

No disrespect to the people who think DB isn’t DB without Goku. I can see why you think that. But its either keep Goku and have DB continue to the point where they keep raising the bar and Goku eventually really does get stronger than Zeno and have to deal with no character development besides that of the main antagonist every arc. Because the main cast isn’t gonna develop. They’re done developing. And if the story stays with Goku, Goku will have to keep getting stronger and stronger.

OR

Slowly transition from from Goku and co. to a new protag and cast so that its fresh, new, and feels more natural than just straight away getting rid of Goku.

[Dbzfan94]

The problem here is, people will need to compromise.

No disrespect to the people who think DB isn’t DB without Goku. I can see why you think that. But its either keep Goku and have DB continue to the point where they keep raising the bar and Goku eventually really does get stronger than Zeno and have to deal with no character development besides that of the main antagonist every arc. Because the main cast isn’t gonna develop. They’re done developing. And if the story stays with Goku, Goku will have to keep getting stronger and stronger.

OR

Slowly transition from from Goku and co. to a new protag and cast so that its fresh, new, and feels more natural than just straight away getting rid of Goku.

Also I don’t know why “next generation” means “no Goku at all” to many people. To me it’s just Goku fully taking on a mentor role which is still very important.

[Lionel]

I thought Vegeta was done developing as a character back in the Buu arc and yet we here are speculating on what role he's going to play in the upcoming Galactic Patrol arc. We already got almost everyone from the old school era being brought back to the forefront in the ROF and TOP arcs to participate despite being retired or outclassed for over a decade at this point. Toriyama seems willing to use whoever or whatever is necessary for his plot arcs.

From an onlooker's perspective, it doesn't seem like the candidates for a "new generation" shonen franchise have all that much appeal. The candidates are who? Uub? Pan? Goten and Trunks? Those characters have their own followings but I sincerely doubt they could hold up the series on their own or even as extras next to Goku. Personally, the only one of that group that I would be interested in visiting is Uub. Saiyans have long since lost their glittery splendour for me. Maybe if they decided to have Pan follow down Gohan's route of relying on alternative sources of power to just tallied Super Saiyan modes then she might start to have some distinguishable promise as well.

[AnimeNation101]

The problem here is, people will need to compromise.

No disrespect to the people who think DB isn’t DB without Goku. I can see why you think that. But its either keep Goku and have DB continue to the point where they keep raising the bar and Goku eventually really does get stronger than Zeno and have to deal with no character development besides that of the main antagonist every arc. Because the main cast isn’t gonna develop. They’re done developing. And if the story stays with Goku, Goku will have to keep getting stronger and stronger.

OR

Slowly transition from from Goku and co. to a new protag and cast so that its fresh, new, and feels more natural than just straight away getting rid of Goku.

Also I don’t know why “next generation” means “no Goku at all” to many people. To me it’s just Goku fully taking on a mentor role which is still very important.

He can be a mentor for some time but it just wouldn’t feel right for Goku to end up becoming an old man as the new protag becomes an adult. Something more likely would be Goku dying in one last battle of something and it would make a huge impact on the new protag, giving him or her development. But this time, Goku stays dead for real. You cant have Goku holding the new protag’s hand forever

[Dbzfan94]

The problem here is, people will need to compromise.

No disrespect to the people who think DB isn’t DB without Goku. I can see why you think that. But its either keep Goku and have DB continue to the point where they keep raising the bar and Goku eventually really does get stronger than Zeno and have to deal with no character development besides that of the main antagonist every arc. Because the main cast isn’t gonna develop. They’re done developing. And if the story stays with Goku, Goku will have to keep getting stronger and stronger.

OR

Slowly transition from from Goku and co. to a new protag and cast so that its fresh, new, and feels more natural than just straight away getting rid of Goku.

Also I don’t know why “next generation” means “no Goku at all” to many people. To me it’s just Goku fully taking on a mentor role which is still very important.

He can be a mentor for some time but it just wouldn’t feel right for Goku to end up becoming an old man as the new protag becomes an adult. Something more likely would be Goku dying in one last battle of something and it would make a huge impact on the new protag, giving him or her development. But this time, Goku stays dead for real. You cant have Goku holding the new protag’s hand forever

I agree. As much as I don’t like it the revival isn’t going anywhere for awhile. So I think it really needs to stop playing it safe and ler the cast grow up again.

[zarmack]

Also I don’t know why “next generation” means “no Goku at all” to many people. To me it’s just Goku fully taking on a mentor role which is still very important.

He can be a mentor for some time but it just wouldn’t feel right for Goku to end up becoming an old man as the new protag becomes an adult. Something more likely would be Goku dying in one last battle of something and it would make a huge impact on the new protag, giving him or her development. But this time, Goku stays dead for real. You cant have Goku holding the new protag’s hand forever

I agree. As much as I don’t like it the revival isn’t going anywhere for awhile. So I think it really needs to stop playing it safe and ler the cast grow up again.

I also agree. One thing I like about GT was how it was willing to take risks with its storytelling and some of its characters. Modern Dragonball needs to do that.

[Kataphrut]

I thought Vegeta was done developing as a character back in the Buu arc and yet we here are speculating on what role he's going to play in the upcoming Galactic Patrol arc. We already got almost everyone from the old school era being brought back to the forefront in the ROF and TOP arcs to participate despite being retired or outclassed for over a decade at this point. Toriyama seems willing to use whoever or whatever is necessary for his plot arcs.

From an onlooker's perspective, it doesn't seem like the candidates for a "new generation" shonen franchise have all that much appeal. The candidates are who? Uub? Pan? Goten and Trunks? Those characters have their own followings but I sincerely doubt they could hold up the series on their own or even as extras next to Goku. Personally, the only one of that group that I would be interested in visiting is Uub. Saiyans have long since lost their glittery splendour for me. Maybe if they decided to have Pan follow down Gohan's route of relying on alternative sources of power to just tallied Super Saiyan modes then she might start to have some distinguishable promise as well.

With what you were saying about the ensemble casts being used in RoF and ToP, it's very interesting to note who's in that. Both times it's Goku and Vegeta, Freeza, Piccolo, Gohan, the three humans but with Roshi taking what was Yamcha's spot in DBZ, and the Androids coming in for the ToP. These were chosen by Toriyama and both times Buu, Goten and Trunks didn't get a look in while weaker characters did.

I think that says a lot about the characters Toriyama is interested in using. Given what we know about how tired he was getting when he was doing the Buu arc way back in the day, I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't think highly of it these days. He wants the focus to be on Goku and Vegeta primarily, with any secondary characters all being pre-Buu. I'm almost tempted to say like many fans he might be nostalgic for those days. And the lack of any attempt to use the younger characters, age them up or move out of that ten-year time period makes me think a next generation story just isn't on the cards.

[Acetona]

I do not think so, the point of making emphasis on teamwork in the tournament, where it is important the "team work" and to show that all the people that meet goku contributed to get to where it now is, is quite adequate
it had already been done before when were tried to make the earthlings and friends of goku relevant with the spirit bomb in the buu arc
I also like more the goku vs jiren lol

I hadn't been done. That time, it was really subtle and Toriyama did the basics: "show, do not tell".
Toei, on the other hand, had Goku saying cheesy words that are out of character AND just screams "the audience is dumb, you have to tell them everything". I had my issues with Gohan vocally stating that he's fighting to protect the ones he loves while fighting Freeza back on RoF arc. It's just unnecessary. Super's dialogue is really bad, it's almost like Super Sentai level of cheesiness.
And I actually love the way MUI is defeated instead of relying on friendship power victory. It's just those lines and Jiren acting like a villain that I dislike the most.
Something I dislike in the fight too is the excessively bright auras. It's like they're competing to see who shines the most.

[Captain-Sora]

I'm all for it, but it has to be one that's very far removed from the time period of Goku and friends. It gives more room to have a cast that's mostly, if not entirely, disconnected from the original group.

Next Generation stories tend to feel really phony when they revolve descendants of the original hero or even just their close friends, as it leads to a lot of nepotism, putting bloodlines on a pedestal, and just comes off insanely coincidental that they, of all people, would go through these world-saving adventures and major conflicts just like their forefathers did. It's just too convenient and borderline fanfiction-y. It only tends to work well in stories where the theme of family and inheritance is the focus since the very beginning.

For a Next Gen show to work well, it needs to remove itself from the shadow of its predecessor and largely be its own thing, with only a few connections and/or cameos here and there that are logical and don't make the universe feel smaller when they show up.

[Tai Lung]

I do not think so, the point of making emphasis on teamwork in the tournament, where it is important the "team work" and to show that all the people that meet goku contributed to get to where it now is, is quite adequate
it had already been done before when were tried to make the earthlings and friends of goku relevant with the spirit bomb in the buu arc
I also like more the goku vs jiren lol

I hadn't been done. That time, it was really subtle and Toriyama did the basics: "show, do not tell".
Toei, on the other hand, had Goku saying cheesy words that are out of character AND just screams "the audience is dumb, you have to tell them everything". I had my issues with Gohan vocally stating that he's fighting to protect the ones he loves while fighting Freeza back on RoF arc. It's just unnecessary. Super's dialogue is really bad, it's almost like Super Sentai level of cheesiness.
And I actually love the way MUI is defeated instead of relying on friendship power victory. It's just those lines and Jiren acting like a villain that I dislike the most.
Something I dislike in the fight too is the excessively bright auras. It's like they're competing to see who shines the most.

to make human beings try to be relevant in an unnecessary way is not subtle, adding what they raise their hands when before there was not that showing characters from the past etc is the same.
and phrases like controlling the mind and the heart with vegeta could also be considered that.
I really think it's the same from the buu arc
but in the end it's my opinion

[BWri]

Goku is arguably more iconic than Dragon Ball itself. He is by far the most loved character in the show. It's not like Naruto where many fans had their favorite characters other than the MC. Many Naruto fans liked Kakashi, Sasuke, Itachi etc over Naruto himself (tons of viewers disliked Naruto as well). Goku is much, much more popular than other DB characters, the show is made for Goku. Goku is not part of the plot (like Naruto), the plot is part of Goku. The show wouldn't be relevant without him. It's not possible to enjoy DB without Goku and co. You can enjoy plenty of anime without their MC in the face, not DB.

It was never like that for me. I've been watching Dragon Ball for nearly twenty years and its only recently and after many rewatches of the series that Goku has become a favorite of mine. I initially thought Goku was like all goody-goody protagonists and just as bland. The English dub I grew up with can mostly be blamed for that, but so to can the fact that I never caught on to the subtle uniqueness of the character or his history. I always liked Piccolo and the human characters over Goku and even characters like Cell and the Ginyu Force. So for me, Dragon Ball was always an ensemble show in the same vein as Naruto, before Naruto was even a thing. Only thing is Toriyama rarely throws his side characters a bone so it does feel like the Goku only show most of the time.

What breaks apart your premise is the creation and results of the popularity polls. Even when Goku wins, it shows that people really care about many of the other characters in Dragon Ball and there are times when Goku isn't THE most popular character.

I will say that it would be nearly impossible to divorce current era DB from Goku without a major tone change. Most of the characters are linked together only because of Goku. If we were to switch to someone else from the current cast, DB would lose much of its playful nature. A future generation could keep that going though.

While I agree about All Might vs All for One (I haven't seen the anime but the manga wasn't memorable at all), it's nuts to put Goku vs Jiren above Saitama vs Boros. Saitama didn't have some corny friendship monologue that's way too out of character. And DB fights aren't as unique as they were on the 80's and 90's anymore. There are couple of anime with similar action nowadays, like Precure.

I like Precure, but haven't watched much of it aside from a few fights. Sadly, this clip doesn't change my point. While this fight scene is awesome, it ends up feeling like a parody of DB to me. It doesn't have the same weight, impact or creativity of the DB fights. I've definitely seen from amazing fight scenes, don't get me wrong. Naruto has had some stuff that I would say could rival Dragon Ball, because it sticks to its power set and does really creative stuff in its own style and the animation team really goes all out. I like many of those Unlimited Bladeworks fights as well and One Piece rarely ever fails me during the big fights, but DB is the king of big fights, which is why the end game for most shows ends up being a DB imitator, with whatever gimmick that show utilizes.