Inconsistencies within the manga

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Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by DNA » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:05 am

So there are some inconsistencies even within the manga, the two I know from the top of my head are Trunks saying that #19 and #20 are the artificial humans that rampaged in the future and Cell announcing the Cell Game at May 17.
Now we all know that the ones who attacked are actually #17 and #18 and we know that the reason for this inconsistency is because originally Toriyama wanted #19 and #20 to be the main villains. Most of us also know that the Cell Game was actually on May 26, I don't know the reason for the change though.

Personally, I like to think that with all that's been happening in the franchise lately, the door is wide open for multiple timelines. Thus, I propose the theory that the first Trunks we see is actually from a timeline where #19 and #20 really are the ones who killed everyone and we never see this Trunks again. The one that comes back is actually a different one, especially since we know there are multiple instances of this Trunks; one died, one is a Time Patroller, etc.

Are there any other inconsistencies?
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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:58 am

Well there's the issue of Goku saying he fought Dr. Gero during the RRA arc, despite Gero never being mentioned before.
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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by Lionel » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:37 pm

One of the most obvious is Goku sending Monster Carrot and his minions to the Moon. Unless he managed to travel there, drop them off, and then get back to Earth within the span of 9 seconds -- which would be amazing when considering that such a trip is about 769,000 kilometres to-and-from Earth -- he should have lost consciousness somewhere as he was either going towards or coming back from it. Also, how did the mobsters not die almost immediately as a result of Goku's actions? It's one of those question mark moments from the series' more comical days that makes you scratch your head in confusion.

Piccolo's guide-established power level during the Saiyan arc. Remember how V-Jump was describing Piccolo's power as being 3500 while Nappa's was but a mere 4000? If the gap was that small then Piccolo should have been able to put up at least a losing resistance type of fight on his own similar to Tao Pai Pai in his rematch with Goku. In addition to that, beyond moral encouragement, would it have really be accurate for Piccolo to say that Gohan's enraged power level exceeds his own? We know Gohan's maximum is 2800. If Piccolo was 3500 then this statement would not be accurate.

Babidi and Dabura's confidence in the three Saiyans being able to provide the necessary energy for Buu's emergence while in the same breath believing that Pui-Pui can handle all of them, plus Shin, at the same time. Do they not have a grasp on how strong their own minion is and the energy they need to release Buu?

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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by dbgtFO » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:38 pm

DNA wrote:Cell announcing the Cell Game at May 17.
Most of us also know that the Cell Game was actually on May 26, I don't know the reason for the change though.
Toriyama forgot which date the Androids attacked or he is worse at counting than early DB Goku or Chaozu.
Take your pick, because what really happened has most likely been lost to time.

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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:31 pm

These are the big ones that always pop in my mind the first:

- The entire existence of Kid Boo is nonsensical. Fat Boo separates the evil within him leading with Evil Grey Skinny Boo. Then Evil Grey Skinny Boo turns Fat Boo into chocolate, eats him, absorbs him and turns into Super Boo. Then when Fat Boo is torn apart from Super Boo on the inside, instead of turning into Evil Grey Skinny Boo, he turns into Kid Boo for some inexplicable reason. It's a plot hole you could drive a double decker bus though.

- Vegetto retaining his conscious when he's turned into candy, despite the fact nobody else in the arc was able to do this, and there's never an explanation as to why Vegetto was able to do this.

- Cell regenerating after blowing himself up because the core inside his head remained intact... despite the fact that Goku destroyed the top half of his body prior to that moment, meaning he should no core allowing himself to regenerate in the first place.

- In the Majin Boo arc, when the cast use the Dragon Balls to resurrect all the people who have been killed (expect for the bad people), Goku arrives on the scene to tell the Z-Fighters not the waste the final wish as they may need it as a backup in case shit goes south with Goten and Trunks fighting Majin Boo. So Dende tells Goku to send Shenlong away, who will only rest for four months instead of a year, at the end of which they can wake him up for the other two of three wishes... which makes no fucking sense. Because back in the Cell arc, when Dende use his Namekian Magic to restore and power up Shenlong wish granting capabilities and increases Shelong capabilities to grant three wishes in one year, there's a catch in the fact that if you want a mass revival wish, you automatically lose one wish on top of that one, meaning you only have two wishes to work with instead of three initially. But for whatever reason, in Majin Boo arc, Shenlong can still grant two more wishes, despite the fact the mass revival wish means he shouldn't be able to.

Also:

Goku: "SSJ3 wouldn't have been enough to defeat Majin Boo."

*several dozen chapters later*

Goku: "SSJ3 could have been enough to defeat Majin Boo."

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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by Cetra » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:28 pm

Gohan needing 5 mins to school when flying or similiar things. The established speed Goku already features on the Snake Way already makes that ridiculous. Even if we take into account that he is dead and takes breaks. That is years before Gohan's highschool time and Gohan is a lot faster than Goku already. And it is ridiculous that if you break this down into generous numbers, numbers that actually make sense unlike made up power stuff, people still want to ignore those numbers even though it is about something actually measurable. As said, even with things being treated generously and bigger estimation scope it still does not work out.

Also it makes no sense that Trunks jumped to the time branch with his time machine. Cell arrived BEFORE he did. Cell split up the timeline, not Trunks. That was even treated correctly in the manga when he thought his arrived screwed up a lot of things but wondered why so many and then he realized "oh! so there was something before me, that's the reason, there is a time machine that arrived one year before I did". So for a random reason Trunks just jumped to that branch. Of course that is because he was thought of before Cell and then things were already written. Considering the fact the timeline was also split before Trunks was born it is astronomically low of a chance that Bulma's baby is Trunks on both branches.
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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:11 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:- Vegetto retaining his conscious when he's turned into candy, despite the fact nobody else in the arc was able to do this, and there's never an explanation as to why Vegetto was able to do this.
I always thought that was because he was the only one hit by the technique who was stronger than the Buu that used it against him.
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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:16 pm

Cetra wrote:Gohan needing 5 mins to school when flying or similiar things. The established speed Goku already features on the Snake Way already makes that ridiculous. Even if we take into account that he is dead and takes breaks. That is years before Gohan's highschool time and Gohan is a lot faster than Goku already. And it is ridiculous that if you break this down into generous numbers, numbers that actually make sense unlike made up power stuff, people still want to ignore those numbers even though it is about something actually measurable. As said, even with things being treated generously and bigger estimation scope it still does not work out.
I think if we get into inconsistencies involving strength, speed, firepower, etc. we will be here all millennium.
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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:11 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:- Vegetto retaining his conscious when he's turned into candy, despite the fact nobody else in the arc was able to do this, and there's never an explanation as to why Vegetto was able to do this.
I always thought that was because he was the only one hit by the technique who was stronger than the Buu that used it against him.
That's a good theory. But that's all it is at this stage... a theory. And the main problem with this is that Vegetto was able to retain his conscious despite being turned into candy because "battle powers", then where was that resistance when he was inside Majin Boo and defused because of "bad air"?

You see, this is the problem I have with magic in the Dragon Ball world... it's so goddamn inconsistent. People talk about how battle powers establish tension and drama, but certain abilities and traits character have do the same thing. When you have a character who can turn people into candy and eat them, with no way of the victim(s) being able to fight back, in a scenario where a character retains their conscious despite being turned into candy, the audience is naturally going to question how that character could do what no one else was able to do. And if the story doesn't bother to provide any context for how this is possible, then I'm sorry, but that is lazy and stupid writing. It's doubly offensive when it happens in a battle that decides the fate of the fucking universe.

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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by PFM18 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:32 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:These are the big ones that always pop in my mind the first:

- The entire existence of Kid Boo is nonsensical. Fat Boo separates the evil within him leading with Evil Grey Skinny Boo. Then Evil Grey Skinny Boo turns Fat Boo into chocolate, eats him, absorbs him and turns into Super Boo. Then when Fat Boo is torn apart from Super Boo on the inside, instead of turning into Evil Grey Skinny Boo, he turns into Kid Boo for some inexplicable reason. It's a plot hole you could drive a double decker bus though.

- Vegetto retaining his conscious when he's turned into candy, despite the fact nobody else in the arc was able to do this, and there's never an explanation as to why Vegetto was able to do this.

- Cell regenerating after blowing himself up because the core inside his head remained intact... despite the fact that Goku destroyed the top half of his body prior to that moment, meaning he should no core allowing himself to regenerate in the first place.

- In the Majin Boo arc, when the cast use the Dragon Balls to resurrect all the people who have been killed (expect for the bad people), Goku arrives on the scene to tell the Z-Fighters not the waste the final wish as they may need it as a backup in case shit goes south with Goten and Trunks fighting Majin Boo. So Dende tells Goku to send Shenlong away, who will only rest for four months instead of a year, at the end of which they can wake him up for the other two of three wishes... which makes no fucking sense. Because back in the Cell arc, when Dende use his Namekian Magic to restore and power up Shenlong wish granting capabilities and increases Shelong capabilities to grant three wishes in one year, there's a catch in the fact that if you want a mass revival wish, you automatically lose one wish on top of that one, meaning you only have two wishes to work with instead of three initially. But for whatever reason, in Majin Boo arc, Shenlong can still grant two more wishes, despite the fact the mass revival wish means he shouldn't be able to.

Also:

Goku: "SSJ3 wouldn't have been enough to defeat Majin Boo."

*several dozen chapters later*

Goku: "SSJ3 could have been enough to defeat Majin Boo."
Great post as usual. Goes to show Super isn't the first to be contradictory at times.

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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by Tavarano » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:01 pm

Goku was able to smell Bulma coming from a significant distance, but unable to recognize all the disguised fighters.
No sense of consistency at all when it comes to speed and strength, for example Piccolo is shocked to see little Gohan destroy a mountain and then casually destroys the moon, yet never uses such devastating attack when fighting the saiyans.
Cell transformations are nonsensical, where did he keep the entire bodies of a17 and a18? Why could he be perfect without a18 later? How having their entire bodies inside do anything? Why would Gero design something so dumb?
Androids being programmed to kill Goku, but not really.
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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:48 am

Lord Beerus wrote:- In the Majin Boo arc, when the cast use the Dragon Balls to resurrect all the people who have been killed (expect for the bad people), Goku arrives on the scene to tell the Z-Fighters not the waste the final wish as they may need it as a backup in case shit goes south with Goten and Trunks fighting Majin Boo. So Dende tells Goku to send Shenlong away, who will only rest for four months instead of a year, at the end of which they can wake him up for the other two of three wishes... which makes no fucking sense. Because back in the Cell arc, when Dende use his Namekian Magic to restore and power up Shenlong wish granting capabilities and increases Shelong capabilities to grant three wishes in one year, there's a catch in the fact that if you want a mass revival wish, you automatically lose one wish on top of that one, meaning you only have two wishes to work with instead of three initially. But for whatever reason, in Majin Boo arc, Shenlong can still grant two more wishes, despite the fact the mass revival wish means he shouldn't be able to.
This was actually addressed by Piccolo and they then realize the Dragon Balls won't be active for 6 months, due to that wish counting as 2 IIRC.

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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by Cetra » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:23 am

Goku fighting with 40 tons as Super Saiyajin. He moves a rock that got to weigh a few tons as a 12-year old but when he is infinitely more trained he suddenly has problems with 40 tons. And yes, pushing and fighting is different but Goku in his 30s is also stronger than his 12-year old self. By like, a lot.

This is a Z to Super transition inconsistency: Goku cannot feel the aura of a god. What did he want to teleport to when Kid Boo destroyed the earth? The point was that he could not focus, not that he could not actually find the Kaioushin.

Another Z to Super inconsistency: The base Saiyans seem to be estimated less powerful than Freeza without Super Saiyans. Yet Vegeta agreed to participate in a tournament with Piccolo and 18. Some people want to act like it os just Vegeta showing off but that's nonsensical. There is no way he agrees to something that actually keeps him weaker than the others.
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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by Darkprince410 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:45 am

Cetra wrote:Goku fighting with 40 tons as Super Saiyajin. He moves a rock that got to weigh a few tons as a 12-year old but when he is infinitely more trained he suddenly has problems with 40 tons. And yes, pushing and fighting is different but Goku in his 30s is also stronger than his 12-year old self. By like, a lot.
That's assuming that battle power and physical strength increase by the same value, which is something we don't know is the case. For all we know, a ten fold increase in battle power may only be a doubling of physical strength or speed (just using it as an example of what may be) or something along those lines. We aren't told or shown that a ten fold increase in battle power makes the person able to lift ten times as much as they could before

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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by KBABZ » Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:04 am

Lord Beerus wrote:Goku: "SSJ3 wouldn't have been enough to defeat Majin Boo."

*several dozen chapters later*

Goku: "SSJ3 could have been enough to defeat Majin Boo."
The thing there is that Goku defeated Buu with the Spirit Bomb, which has its own measure of power, and thus it supersedes the Battle Power of the person using it. You still need to be skilled with ki to actually handle the thing, but if taught well even the small-time fighters in the cast would be able to chuck it. And of course it has the offset of taking ages to build up.

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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by Cetra » Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:07 am

Darkprince410 wrote:
Cetra wrote:Goku fighting with 40 tons as Super Saiyajin. He moves a rock that got to weigh a few tons as a 12-year old but when he is infinitely more trained he suddenly has problems with 40 tons. And yes, pushing and fighting is different but Goku in his 30s is also stronger than his 12-year old self. By like, a lot.
That's assuming that battle power and physical strength increase by the same value, which is something we don't know is the case. For all we know, a ten fold increase in battle power may only be a doubling of physical strength or speed (just using it as an example of what may be) or something along those lines. We aren't told or shown that a ten fold increase in battle power makes the person able to lift ten times as much as they could before
No, that's not assuming anything regarding that. I have not made the claim that "Goku is 10 times stronger so he can lift 10 times more, every boost translates to the same value and accomplishment of weight lifting and other things". I am approaching this from a much more and simple stance. He has more power so he should be able to accomplish more. He has a lot more power so it should be even better. Not "10 equals 10, 40 equals 40". And that he should be able to do much more is definitely not an unrealistic thought. It does not matter if he does not get the same boosts everytime, what matters is that he got like a quadrillion boosts in that time. And if it were so insignificant he would not have been able to put up a fight against people that he stood no chance against earlier. For what its worth, how ridiculous it is is even shown when they cannot get through Gero's door.
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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:41 am

Lord Beerus wrote:That's a good theory. But that's all it is at this stage... a theory. And the main problem with this is that Vegetto was able to retain his conscious despite being turned into candy because "battle powers", then where was that resistance when he was inside Majin Boo and defused because of "bad air"?
I thought Super retconned that by saying the fusion just wore off because of the time limit.
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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by KBABZ » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:56 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:That's a good theory. But that's all it is at this stage... a theory. And the main problem with this is that Vegetto was able to retain his conscious despite being turned into candy because "battle powers", then where was that resistance when he was inside Majin Boo and defused because of "bad air"?
I thought Super retconned that by saying the fusion just wore off because of the time limit.
The thread is about inconsistencies within the manga. That said, Buu is a magical and inherently weird being, so to me the act of being inside his body messed with the fusion union or whatever.

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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:32 am

Was it ever explained in the manga how Future Zamasu was able to use the Time Ring even though he wasn't official promoted to the rank of Supreme Kai? In the anime, only Supreme Kais can use the Time Ring, that's why Gowasu had to promote Zamasu to Supreme Kai for a time when they visited the Babari in the future. I'm not sure if that rule also applies to the manga though.
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Re: Inconsistencies within the manga

Post by OhHiRenan » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:07 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:These are the big ones that always pop in my mind the first:

- The entire existence of Kid Boo is nonsensical. Fat Boo separates the evil within him leading with Evil Grey Skinny Boo. Then Evil Grey Skinny Boo turns Fat Boo into chocolate, eats him, absorbs him and turns into Super Boo. Then when Fat Boo is torn apart from Super Boo on the inside, instead of turning into Evil Grey Skinny Boo, he turns into Kid Boo for some inexplicable reason. It's a plot hole you could drive a double decker bus though.

- Vegetto retaining his conscious when he's turned into candy, despite the fact nobody else in the arc was able to do this, and there's never an explanation as to why Vegetto was able to do this.

- Cell regenerating after blowing himself up because the core inside his head remained intact... despite the fact that Goku destroyed the top half of his body prior to that moment, meaning he should no core allowing himself to regenerate in the first place.

- In the Majin Boo arc, when the cast use the Dragon Balls to resurrect all the people who have been killed (expect for the bad people), Goku arrives on the scene to tell the Z-Fighters not the waste the final wish as they may need it as a backup in case shit goes south with Goten and Trunks fighting Majin Boo. So Dende tells Goku to send Shenlong away, who will only rest for four months instead of a year, at the end of which they can wake him up for the other two of three wishes... which makes no fucking sense. Because back in the Cell arc, when Dende use his Namekian Magic to restore and power up Shenlong wish granting capabilities and increases Shelong capabilities to grant three wishes in one year, there's a catch in the fact that if you want a mass revival wish, you automatically lose one wish on top of that one, meaning you only have two wishes to work with instead of three initially. But for whatever reason, in Majin Boo arc, Shenlong can still grant two more wishes, despite the fact the mass revival wish means he shouldn't be able to.

Also:

Goku: "SSJ3 wouldn't have been enough to defeat Majin Boo."

*several dozen chapters later*

Goku: "SSJ3 could have been enough to defeat Majin Boo."
Great post as usual. Goes to show Super isn't the first to be contradictory at times.
The difference, of course, being that the original series’ most glaring inconsistencies come late into its run and are mostly harmless whereas Super’s inconsistencies are constant and far more damning.
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