Would you like to see the Dragon Ball Franchise on Netflix, (Even if it was redubbed)

[KBABZ]

I think you mean the script specifically. Kai required a new script because it's quite different from Z due to the amount that's been removed or had to be reworded to fit the new context of filler not being present.

No it didn’t. The Japanese Z and Kai scripts are nearly identical. Funimation could have very easily used their old Z scripts (which the first 67 episodes are already recycled from their 1996-1998 dub with Ocean) for Kai with minimal if any changes needed. They didn’t and stuck closer to the Japanese script because they wanted to get it right this time.

In a theoretical Kai edit of DB the Japanese script would be pretty much the same and given how little concern Funimation seems to have for original Dragon Ball just using their old scripts without the filler would be super easy and super likely.

You didn't understand my point. Particularly in the Namek arc, there are enormous amounts of filler that have been removed that does change what the script looks like on the page as it skips over stuff. Because of that you can't just take the audio from the Z dub and slap it into the appropriate Kai scenes, it just wouldn't work.

[MasenkoHA]

It's been a while since I've seen Kai, but Robo told me that the scripts for Funimation Kai weren't that accurate.
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Compared to Z it’s far more accurate but it didn’t stop them from taking certain liberties.

Their continuing refusal to acknowledge Piccolo as a demon comes to mind. There’s the scene where Kami and Mr.Popo discuss that Raditz and Goku went to the afterlife instead of being sent to limbo as past victims of Piccolo Daimou and his clan were, as evidence that Piccolo had changed. This was completely omitted in the dub.

There’s another scene where Gohan is playing some Japanese kids words game “Shiritori” with Piccolo rather than try to adapt it they have him give some stock shonen hero speech or something.


But generally Kai is much more faithful as a dub than Z

[Cure Dragon 255]

It's been a while since I've seen Kai, but Robo told me that the scripts for Funimation Kai weren't that accurate.
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Compared to Z it’s far more accurate but it didn’t stop them from taking certain liberties.

Their continuing refusal to acknowledge Piccolo as a demon comes to mind. There’s the scene where Kami and Mr.Popo discuss that Raditz and Goku went to the afterlife instead of being sent to limbo as past victims of Piccolo Daimou and his clan were, as evidence that Piccolo had changed. This was completely omitted in the dub.

There’s another scene where iirc Gohan is playing some Japanese kids words game with Piccolo rather than try to adapt it they have him give some stock shonen hero speech or something.


But generally Kai is much more faithful as a dub than Z

This is something I actually dont mind at all. Dubs should be more willing to rewrite dialogu that doesnt work for foreign audiences. People who care about the accuracy are already watching subs anyways. I'm not saying go 4kids or whatever but some things just dont work Outside of Japan, let alone in a dub.

But the Demon Dialogue really is annoying and it should have been corrected for Kai. A major plot point is really different from just playing shiratori in a throw away scene.


And keep in mind I grew up with a dub that DIDNT replace the Shiratori scene with other dialogue. Oh and Kai replaced that AWESOME dub with a shittier one. That goes to show you that I have no bias towards Kai.

[Robo4900]

Funimation could have very easily used their old Z scripts (which the first 67 episodes are already recycled from their 1996-1998 dub with Ocean) for Kai with minimal if any changes needed. They didn’t and stuck closer to the Japanese script because they wanted to get it right this time.

Eh, not really. In actual fact, Funimation based their Kai scripts off their Z scripts, essentially just with corrections based on Funimation's general idea of what Dragon Ball should be now that they're a few years in, and actually have some clue what the Japanese version is like, and based off of more accurate script translations the script writers had for reference... But they still got tons of stuff wrong, still were adding unnecessary adaptations and changes into the scripts in the same manner to which they have been to Super and TFC, though to a somewhat lesser extent.

If an OG DB Kai existed, the circumstances would probably determine their approach.

Either Kai would have started at the beginning of the story like it should have goddamn done from the start anyway, in which case they'd have probably approached it the same way as we've seen them take with Kai in reality...
Or a new OG DB Kai happens, and Funi take an approach more like they do with Super, except with waffle from the original scripts dropped in as well as the new waffle they add in their scripts these days anyway... So, kind of like their approach to TFC, but with more added waffle.

But generally Kai is much more faithful as a dub than Z

"More faithful than the Z dub" is about as low a bar as one can set.

[jjgp1112]

Eh, not really. In actual fact, Funimation based their Kai scripts off their Z scripts, essentially just with corrections based on Funimation's general idea of what Dragon Ball should be now that they're a few years in, and actually have some clue what the Japanese version is like, and based off of more accurate script translations the script writers had for reference... But they still got tons of stuff wrong, still were adding unnecessary adaptations and changes into the scripts in the same manner to which they have been to Super and TFC, though to a somewhat lesser extent.

If an OG DB Kai existed, the circumstances would probably determine their approach.

Um...huh? There are maybe three or four scenes in OG Kai where it has the same script as the Funi dub (That Kami/Piccolo exposition scene and that one bit of dialogue where Bulma wakes up Master Roshi and Krillin to tell them about the scouters are the only things that even come to mind), and any other similarities are usually the original dub doing the scene right to begin with.

The most glaring thing in that dub was the "My truck!" scene, and even that was just an error due to the rushed schedule, as Sabat mentioned at the time that bits of the edited dub would slip in the uncut dub and vice versa.

[Robo4900]

Um...huh? There are maybe three or four scenes in OG Kai where it has the same script as the Funi dub (That Kami/Piccolo exposition scene and that one bit of dialogue where Bulma wakes up Master Roshi and Krillin to tell them about the scouters are the only things that even come to mind), and any other similarities are usually the original dub doing the scene right to begin with.

Yes, very few scenes are word-for-word the same as the original dub. But, tons of scenes borrow lines, often to the detriment of the accuracy of the scene. Ox-King/Gyumao's "Krillin, get the smelling salts!" after Chichi feints in IIRC the Saiyan arc, for instance(I think it's after Roshi explains what happened to Goku and Gohan to her). Rest of the scene is largely new, but it has a few lines like that which are taken from the original.
I think from the same episode, there's the scene where Bulma had repaired the scouter, which arguably kind of borrows its dialogue from the Funi Z dub... But in actual fact, it borrows its dialogue from the Saban dub with some minor alteration. It's not word-for-word the same as either Z dub, but it's very clearly based off the Saban script.

And let's not forget that even when Kai wasn't reusing Z dub lines, translation errors found their way in one way or another; in the final episode of Kai 1.0, the narrator explains that the Dragon Balls were used to revive Kaio. Apparently, this translation error as well as the way certain things are phrased in a few episodes points to at least some Kai 1.0 material using one of the earliest/quickest Kai fansubs as their base...
And sometimes you get nonsense entirely new to the Kai dub; Bulma's line about taking judo when talking to Popo in Yunzabit heights, for instance, entirely changes the tone and intent behind the line she's delivering. And given most of the line is spoken without her mouth visible on screen, the "but it was to fit mouthflaps" excuse people often use about Funi's nonsense doesn't apply, especially since there was no dialogue in the Japanese version for the majority of the time Bulma spends saying the bits Funi added. And there's all the stuff in Boo Kai, like "Totally pwn'd", "Strong boy", the TFS scene, etc.

And of course, you already mentioned the censored dub lines creeping into the uncut dub, which ranged from harmless to utterly ridiculous...
Thing is, lots of shows make small corrections after initial TV airings, so you would think the short deadlines Funi were working under that lead to problems like the uncut/cut line errors, or Freeza laughing in Linda Young's voice in episode 1, could all be corrected for the Blu-Ray and re-airings. Not like Funi's a stranger to revising the contents of their home video releases...
And what about the Japanese attack names? There's a huge inconsistency that didn't need to be there. If they'd made the decision of whether or not they were going with the Japanese attack names before the first BD was out, they could have had consistency. And even later than that, once they'd decided to switch suddenly, they could have corrected that for the "Season" BDs... They were replacing the soundtrack after all, so they could have swapped out the early run's attack names while they were at it...

Now, to be fair, not all the weirdness about where Kai gets its dialogue is bad -- not every Z line is an inaccurate betrayal of the original scene, and if it wasn't for that Kaio plothole, the suspicions about it borrowing fansub lines would be entirely unfounded, which speaks to the success they had in borrowing such lines -- however the fact that not only were inaccuracies, errors, etc. from its sources often left in, but Kai put its own set of nonsense in its scripts, and all this proves the claims of Kai's scripts being proper translations, and all the hype of "If it's in our Kai dub, it's in the original Japanese" is total bollocks.
Ultimately, yes, Kai's dub is very clearly better than Z's dub, but be under no illusion that it's anything other than a flawed but pretty decent dub. Enjoy it all you want, more power to you for enjoying it -- much more fun than being a sourpuss like myself about it -- but in debating the actual quality of the production, there's a lot to criticise.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Kai's dub may be flawed but I do appreciate it keeps the spirit of the Japanese version for the most part and removes a lot of the bad jokes which Super's dub sadly seems to have regressed back to. Its also a big step up from Funi's watered down dub of OG DB.

[MasenkoHA]

I’ll put it this way if we were to grade them DBZ’s Funi dub would average a D-. Their OG Dragon Ball would be a C. And Kai would be a B+

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If an OG DB Kai existed, the circumstances would probably determine their approach.

Either Kai would have started at the beginning of the story like it should have goddamn done from the start anyway, in which case they'd have probably approached it the same way as we've seen them take with Kai in reality...
Or a new OG DB Kai happens, and Funi take an approach more like they do with Super, except with waffle from the original scripts dropped in as well as the new waffle they add in their scripts these days anyway... So, kind of like their approach to TFC, but with more added waffle.

I would fully expect a theoretical Kai edition of Dragon Ball dub to just maybe fix some of their most egregious mistakes (The bride promise screw up comes to mind) and maybe put the dirty jokes they left out back in but it would still heavily recycle their old dub.


And that would be the best case scenario. Funimation simply doesn’t give a shit about Dragon Ball the way they do Z.

They would still be too afraid to acknowledge Piccolo is a demon for sure.

[DanielSSJ]

I’ll put it this way if we were to grade them DBZ’s Funi dub would average a D-. Their OG Dragon Ball would be a C. And Kai would be a B+

You're a more generous grader than I. The old Z dub is an F. GT is a triple F minus with Menza's score, and D minus with the Japanese score. Classic is a C minus. Kai (Saiyan ~ Cell) is a B. Haven't seen enough of Boo Kai or Super to grade them, but if what I've heard about ten is true, they're Cs at best.

[KBABZ]

I’ll put it this way if we were to grade them DBZ’s Funi dub would average a D-. Their OG Dragon Ball would be a C. And Kai would be a B+

You're a more generous grader than I. The old Z dub is an F. GT is a triple F minus with Menza's score, and D minus with the Japanese score. Classic is a C minus. Kai (Saiyan ~ Cell) is a B. Haven't seen enough of Boo Kai or Super to grade them, but if what I've heard about ten is true, they're Cs at best.

So the Big Green dub would be like a Z, right?

[DanielSSJ]

So the Big Green dub would be like a Z, right?

If I factor in ironic enjoyment, Big Green is a B. Likewise, the Speedy dub is an A Plus.

[Robo4900]

I personally find Speedy is too awful... Like, if Big Green is The Room, then Speedy is the Star Wars Holiday Special.
So, for me, Big Green is A, Speedy is just F. It's unwatchable...

As for the other dubs... Y'know what, let's go whole hog into this... Keeping in mind this is more about how good I think they are as productions unto themselves, how they do in terms of what they're trying to achieve, and enjoyment factor...

Harmony Gold DB: C
BLT DB: C
Funi DB: D+
Westwood DB: C-
Saban Z: C
Funi Z: D-
Westwood Z: C-
Pioneer Z: A
Speedy Z: F
Big Green Z: A
Funi GT: F
Westwood GT: B-
Funi Kai 1.0: C+
Funi Kai 2.0: C-
Funi Super: C-
Bang Zoom Super: C

[ABED]

Saban Z: C
Funi Z: D-
Pioneer Z: A
Speedy Z: F
Big Green Z: A
Funi GT: F
Westwood GT: B-
Funi Kai 1.0: C+
Funi Kai 2.0: C-
Funi Super: C-
Bang Zoom Super: C

Big Green is a higher grade than Kai and the Ocean dub?

And how do you figure the dub of GT is worse than Z? This seems to be a popular opinion but I don't see it. GT is mildly better than the in-house dub of Z.

Kai 2.0 is only mildly worse than 1.0.

[Robo4900]

Kai 2.0 is only mildly worse than 1.0.

Cards on the table, I haven't really watched much of Boo Kai. Though various things I've seen do make me sceptical of its quality; the TFS scene, funny as it is, is not exactly an accurate way of dubbing that scene... And one big point in Kai 1.0's favour was that Funi saw sense and recast Freeza as well as the Ginyus. Meanwhile, they kept their castings of Boo and Babidi for TFC...

Big Green is a higher grade than Kai and the Ocean dub?

Heh. Well, fair. I wasn't sure I could get away with giving the Saban dub a particularly high rating given its replacement score, heavy cutting, etc. I suppose perhaps given the high ranking I gave Big Green due to its sheer enjoyment factor, and ultimately the value it has as a gag dub, it would be more fair to give the Saban and Westwood dubs higher rankings than I ended up giving them, for the enjoyable version of the show they presented...

Ultimately, this was just a bit of fun, so I could just leave it as-is, but you do raise a good point, so FWIW, perhaps it would be fairer to say BLT DB, and Saban and Westwood Z all get B rankings.

As for Funi Kai, it's kind of an inconsistent mess for what it is, and its attempts to be a more accurate take on Dragon Ball ultimately are messy at first, and only deteriorate from there, and there are the production issues they never bothered to fix like the "DUDE MAH TRUCK" or Freeza's laugh in episode 1, and they still adamantly held on to so many of the really bad legacy castings despite letting go of a good few, so... I give it a passing grade, but it's nothing great. Meanwhile, for what it is, Big Green is in my opinion an absolutely perfect gag dub. I realise Big Green wasn't intended to be a gag dub, but regardless of intent, it sticks the landing perfectly, so I don't think I could possibly give it a grade lower than A.

And how do you figure the dub of GT is worse than Z? This seems to be a popular opinion but I don't see it. GT is mildly better than the in-house dub of Z.

The Z dub kind of has a narmy charm of its somewhat half-hearted goofy attempts at being edgy. GT, they played much more into the edge, with even the soundtrack turning into generic metal, and the narrator going full Batman. They went from hilariously "Edgy" Pokémon fanfic written by a 14-year-old to a rejected screenplay for a Zack Snyder Pokémon movie.

I must ask one question... Do you like GT?
If not, then I think it would be reasonable to suggest that perhaps not liking it means you don't really see its value, and thus don't really see what Funi destroyed.

[Vegard Aune]

Since everyone else is doing it right now...

FUNi Z: F
FUNi DB: D+
FUNi GT: Haven't seen enough to judge.
FUNi Kai: B
FUNi Kai 2.0: Haven't seen enough to judge but from what I'm hearing I'd think it would still be a B.
FUNi Battle of Gods: B+
FUNi Resurrection F: A
FUNi Super: Haven't seen enough to judge but from what I'm hearing it sounds like either a weak B- or a C+.

[ABED]

Robo4900, I was surprised by those responses. Fair enough. I thought we were talking purely about the dubs (the voices and the dialog) themselves, not the ancillary stuff like the stories or the music, but I understand now. As for your last question, I'm ambivalent about GT. I like a number of things about it, but even the original is heavily flawed.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Blue Water's GT dub is like Funi Super but with less seasoned voice acting. It has really good scripts for the most part but throws in a lot of awkward jokes like Goku telling Omega Shenron to join a boyband. I'd still give it the edge over Funimation's dub for keeping Tokunaga and not slapping on a terrible replacement score.

[MasenkoHA]

Kai 2.0 is only mildly worse than 1.0.

Cards on the table, I haven't really watched much of Boo Kai. Though various things I've seen do make me sceptical of its quality; the TFS scene, funny as it is, is not exactly an accurate way of dubbing that scene.

To my understanding the TFS scene never made it to air or home release because Toei

And one big point in Kai 1.0's favour was that Funi saw sense and recast Freeza as well as the Ginyus. Meanwhile, they kept their castings of Boo and Babidi for TFC...

Which was less seeing sense and just dumb luck that they realized Young couldn’t keep up with the new dubbing and recast her and in the case of the Ginyus it was realizing Sabat doesn’t need to voice half of the minor characters anymore. So its not surprising Boo and Babidi werent recast

[Onikage725]

I think you mean the script specifically. Kai required a new script because it's quite different from Z due to the amount that's been removed or had to be reworded to fit the new context of filler not being present.

No it didn’t. The Japanese Z and Kai scripts are nearly identical. Funimation could have very easily used their old Z scripts (which the first 67 episodes are already recycled from their 1996-1998 dub with Ocean) for Kai with minimal if any changes needed. They didn’t and stuck closer to the Japanese script because they wanted to get it right this time.

In a theoretical Kai edit of DB the Japanese script would be pretty much the same and given how little concern Funimation seems to have for original Dragon Ball just using their old scripts without the filler would be super easy and super likely.

It's been a while since I've seen Kai, but Robo told me that the scripts for Funimation Kai weren't that accurate.

He'll give examples.

I recall coming across a YouTube video that compared the confrontation scene between Piccolo and Kami from both the original and Kai versions. In the Kai version, he says this: "Let's just hope that when you come to your senses, there will still be a world for us to save." while in the Japanese version, he says: "Waiting for the irrevocable to happen and you finally make up your mind." The Kai line kinda throws me off for some reason.

The problem is the old dub didn't even try. So Z Kai may not be the same line, but it does try to keep the same tone.

The old dub line was to the effect of "you need time, that's fine, I'll be waiting." Its actually the exact opposite of what Piccolo was trying to convey, which was common with the old dub script. Especially in that saga.

[Robo4900]

To my understanding the TFS scene never made it to air or home release because Toei

Exactly.
As far as Funi were concerned, the TFS version was how that scene was supposed to go in their dub.

Robo4900, I was surprised by those responses. Fair enough. I thought we were talking purely about the dubs (the voices and the dialog) themselves, not the ancillary stuff like the stories or the music, but I understand now. As for your last question, I'm ambivalent about GT. I like a number of things about it, but even the original is heavily flawed.

If a dub can't even tell the story the show is suposed to be telling right, then the quality of the dialogue and acting doesn't really help, does it?

Thing is, one can argue about individual pieces like the acting quality, but what matters is the overall product presented. And overall, Funi's GT just isn't a faithful or good representation of GT.

Blue Water's GT dub is like Funi Super but with less seasoned voice acting. It has really good scripts for the most part but throws in a lot of awkward jokes like Goku telling Omega Shenron to join a boyband. I'd still give it the edge over Funimation's dub for keeping Tokunaga and not slapping on a terrible replacement score.

I don't think you're giving it enough credit there, really. BW GT didn't really tend to do weird changes like Funi Super does. Usually when BW did something weird in their scripts, there was a reason for it, often just it adapting something about the original in a slightly odd way. Funi Super just tends to add crap, constantly.