DBZ Uncensored 2 is gone.

[TVfan721]

http://www.animecauldron.com/dbzuncensored2/

The website is kaput. The original DBZ Uncensored is still, somehow, online after all these years but it's all that's left from that era in time. DBZ Uncensored 2 came afterwards and was run by the same guy who ran the DBZOA. Years ago, I was pretty critical of just how extreme DBZ Uncensored 2 and DBZOA were in their criticisms of Funimation but it doesn't matter anymore. Everyone helped contribute to where we are today with the fandom in terms of faithfulness and respect towards the original material. People like VegettoEX, GreatSaiyaman777, SJR, Psaros, etc all played a role in that. (You can still access the site through archive.org by the way.)

[Hulk10]

Huh what are you talking about?

[Majin Buu]

No offence to GreatSaiyaman777, but that site was never anything more than a pale imitation of the original DBZ Uncensored so this is really no big loss. GSM777 was nowhere near as entertaining to read as Chris Psaros.

Everyone helped contribute to where we are today with the fandom in terms of faithfulness and respect towards the original material.

Some old timers here would argue that the DBZOA did not contribute positively to the discourse at the time. From what I've read in the archives, they had a reputation for being dumb, overzealous subbies.

[Cure Dragon 255]

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!ONE1!!!

I loved that site. Now I WILL NEVER READ the interview with the Toei animator that hated what Funimation did! Or his various awesomely colorful rants.


I wil cry the day Yu Gi Oh uncensored goes kaput.

[Robo4900]

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!ONE1!!!

I loved that site. Now I WILL NEVER READ the interview with the Toei animator that hated what Funimation did! Or his various awesomely colorful rants.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090818182 ... index.html

[MasenkoHA]

Speaking of, it’s a bit unfortunate that Chris never got past the Namek saga. Granted, as the show was less censored once it moved to Toonami there was less to takk about in terms of censorship. The very fact the site mostly focused at the Funi/Saban/Ocean dub is an amusing artifact on its self.

.


I wil cry the day Yu Gi Oh uncensored goes kaput.

Not going to lie the webmaster of Yu-gi-oh uncensored really rubbed me the wrong way maybe it’s because his entire tone felt like an angry 13-year old boy or because he made false claims like 4Kids skipped a season.

[Big Boss]

I wil cry the day Yu Gi Oh uncensored goes kaput.

Better get those handkerchiefs ready. http://www.animecauldron.com/ygouncensored/

[MasenkoHA]

I wil cry the day Yu Gi Oh uncensored goes kaput.

Better get those handkerchiefs ready. http://www.animecauldron.com/ygouncensored/

[TheBigBoy]

I loved DBZ Uncensored. Greg Werner's old site was my first brush with the "real" version of DBZ. He posted a bunch of screen caps from his low quality fansubs, largely without explanation. Thankfully, I discovered DBZ Uncensored and Psaros was able to largely contextualize what I was seeing. Like who the hell that drunk blonde chick was. Or the weird bar in heaven filled with ghosts.

The DBZOA guys were all over the old planetnamek.com forums. I remember thinking they were nutjobs. Some of the ugliest flame wars I ever saw online involved them.

[Danfun64]

Ok, so is it said that I first learned about DBZ Uncensored 2 when this thread was posted? GDI!

Edit: Interview with a Polish DB Otaku "Another DBZ version outshines the American one."

NO. I'll give the French-derived dubs credit for keeping the original music and not dramatically changing the tone of the show to make it all action-y and edgy... but Funi's dub is still more coherent despite its major flaws. You don't have the script dumbed down to the point where characters are either never named, named much later than they should have been, or (Crane Hermit to Master Shen notwithstanding) named bizarrely for no apparent reason (Piccolo to Satan, Piccolo Jr to Satan Little Heart). Not to mention how the saiyans/saiyajin were named "Space Warriors"... At least in the actual interview, it is admitted that the script of French DB and French DBZ is shit.

Edit 2: I'm surprised the Latino review didn't mention how Oolong's wish for panties turned into "I wish to conquer Bulma!", an error which BLT, Funi, and BW lacked. No reference to Planeta Namekusei or Maki Gero either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Cure Dragon 255]

Those errors are minimal. In the Latin American dub, and that DOES outshine the USA version. Sure its a bit dishonest to say it was all uncensored and mistake free. But then again what isnt?

[Danfun64]

True, overall the Latino dub pre-Kai is a LOT better than what Funi offered...and for what it's worth, the interviewer did say that it was "practically 95% like the original only in Spanish".

That reminds me though, I'm surprised the Castellan Spanish dub wasn't mentioned at all in the Latino interview. Granted, there's a good chance the interviewee didn't see it, but it would've been fun to see the reaction to it (bonus points would have been in order had the Big Green dub been mentioned as well, but Big Green wasn't that big when the interview came out or wasn't released yet(?))

[Gaffer Tape]

There was a brief time I visited DBZOA a lot. However, it was mostly because they were hosting the defunct DBZ Uncensored. I do remember checking out some of their content. I read a few of Great Saiyaman 777's editorials, and I tried to follow some of their episode comparisons. But as others have said, they just didn't have the charm that Chris Psaros had. Psaros could be hyperbolic and ranty, but he was witty and often had at least a little bit of his tongue in his cheek. He had just enough self-awareness to make all of that funny and endearing. DBZ Uncensored 2 had all of the rage of the original site but none of the charm or wit, so the net result was more obnoxious and repetitive than funny, unfortunately. I suppose they were trying too hard to mimic Psaros's style rather than make their own, and it just felt like a pale imitation. But I appreciate the site for keeping DBZ Uncensored hosted until Castor Troy took it under his wing.

[Chuquita]

I only vaguely remember the place. Black wallpaper, you could hover your mouse over images to reveal uncensored screenshots? Maybe that was the first one?
That sorta stuff wasn't too high up on my radar.

I remember DBZOA more vividly, but that's because they had translated scripts for a good chunk of Z and the movies and I would use quotes from those in fan-works. I saved a bunch of those notepad scripts, but I don't know if I still have them. That might've been all I used DBZOA for, actually. I don't recall ever reading any editorials posted there.

[Majin Buu]

Psaros could be hyperbolic and ranty, but he was witty and often had at least a little bit of his tongue in his cheek. He had just enough self-awareness to make all of that funny and endearing. DBZ Uncensored 2 had all of the rage of the original site but none of the charm or wit, so the net result was more obnoxious and repetitive than funny, unfortunately. I suppose they were trying too hard to mimic Psaros's style rather than make their own, and it just felt like a pale imitation.

Agreed. Being ranty and hyperbolic and having it come off as funny instead of obnoxious takes some skill to pull off. Psaros was good at riding that line, GSM777 was not.

[ABED]

I wouldn't call Psaros witty at all. He was amusing when I was a teenager. However, I am thankful because it was a good source of information at a time when I didn't have easy access to the series.

[TheBigBoy]

DBZ Uncensored in general has a real "time and place" quality to it. I re-read the site like a year back and saw some inaccuracies and weird, dated humor, fanboyish hyperbole and a general lack of nuance. You kinda have to put yourself in the mindset of a 13 year old from 1999 who was just getting into Dragon Ball to really appreciate it. It mostly reminded me how much I miss the "old" internet, lol.

[MasenkoHA]

I wouldn't call Psaros witty at all. He was amusing when I was a teenager. However, I am thankful because it was a good source of information at a time when I didn't have easy access to the series.

I’m more inclined to agree with this.

A lot of his stuff comes off as pretentious whining. Like how dare the Funimation Heads not be Otaku. How dare Toriyama and Toei sell the license to Funimation and let them make it more “commericially viable”*

Not that everything he said was meritless. He did say when he was fine with Funimation removing something for pacing (unlike some other uncensored sites that whine over every little snippit) and yeah Saban went too far with their demands of what needed to be censored and he rightfully called out Funimation when they tried to avoid responsibility on anything


*I don’t think DBZ needed to be drastically altered to be a commercial success but I think its a bit silly to be mad at Funimation for wanting the thing to succeed

[Gaffer Tape]

*shrugs* I still visit the site once in a while for a stroll down memory lane, and I still find the bulk of his criticisms extremely fair. Considering the purpose of his site was to document the changes made, of course there'd be cuts and censors mentioned that a people could unfairly classify as "nitpicks." One thing I've frequently noticed in my own public Dragon Ball work is that certain viewers tend to lack a certain nuance to hearing criticism. In particular, simply the act of mentioning something is enough to set people off or assume that it's being said with the same weight as the most scathing criticisms. If it's criticized, then it absolutely must mean it's abhorred to the highest level. So if someone looks at the running gag of Dr. Brief's cigarette being censored out in season 3, it shows up so often someone might be inclined to think it's some sort of vindictive vendetta when in reality, Dr. Brief shows up a lot in season 3, and the whole point of the site is to document the changes, so of course it has to be brought up frequently. But he was absolutely never shy about giving credit to things he thought were good, reasonable, or even better than the original. And, yes, there were multiple instances of the latter. He could be snarky and abrasive and passionate. But that really does sum up the fandom of that time. There's hardly anyone from that era and that section of the fandom who could honestly say they haven't angrily ranted at FUNimation's business practices and handling of Dragon Ball. The fact that we're currently up in arms about Toei censoring the movies shows that it's not at all a mindset relegated to the late '90s either.

I think where the site shows its age the most is simply its lack of basic information we take for granted nowadays about the production of the franchise. For example, he appeared woefully ignorant about the first television series, and as such, his confusion about when characters learned to fly is particularly cringe-worthy. I also believe he put the original version of the anime on an unrealistic pedestal a lot of the time, making it out as some artistic masterpiece on the level of Studio Ghibli as opposed to the weekly toy commercial it actually was. Then of course, there were fan rumors assimilated as fact, such as the belief that Toriyama planned to end the series after The Freeza Arc. But in context, a lot of that's understandable for the time. Unless you were fluent in Japanese and able to follow the franchise as it aired, you generally gathered your knowledge of the franchise in bits and pieces. Knowledge was scarce. Verifying things was difficult. Even seeing and owning the franchise in its entirety was difficult. While VegettoEX was around, there was certainly no Kanzenshuu as we know it now back then. It's easy to scoff at it now when everything is so readily at hand and has been for well over a decade. But I'm certainly not going to throw stones in my glass house...

[Cure Dragon 255]

First. Confession Time: I hate Studio Ghibli. Second: I think Psaros did cut Funimation a lot of Slack.

This is on the final part of his Look What They've Done To My Show! rant.

Spoiler:

...but I guess it could be worse
After all that I've said, it may seem like I hate the English version of DBZ with a purple passion. That's actually not the case. When someone gets up on their soapbox and starts ranting and raving about something (like I'm doing now) it's easy to dismiss them as an overzealous militant without any sense of objectivity. If my criticisms are to be taken seriously, I think it's necessary for me to say something positive about the English version, if for no other reason than to show that I am looking at this situation with a fair and open mind.

In the spring of 1985, Robotech appeared on North American television and created legions of anime fans (I among them). I loved this show dearly, and it was only later that I found out that Robotech was actually a hacked-together conglomeration of three completely unrelated Japanese shows. When I finally watched the original version of Macross, I was absolutely stunned, and saw what a terrible thing the English producers had done to it. It wasn't just the names and music (breathtaking, by the way) that had been changed, but the story itself. It is only now that I truly understand how the fans of Macross in the United States must have felt when they saw it treated this way. I was lucky enough to see the original version later, as opposed to seeing it destroyed before my eyes, and I (hesitantly) forgive the English producers for doing what they did. But only because if it wasn't for this show, I wouldn't be an anime fan today.

I bring this up because DBZ fared MUCH better in the States than Macross did, and we should all be grateful that FUNimation obviously has at least SOME respect for the show. It only takes one look at shows like Voltron, Robotech, and the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers to see that things could have been much, MUCH worse. Some of these companies have absolutely NO respect for artistic integrity whatsoever, and I shudder to think what would have happened if DBZ had fallen into their hands.

So what HAS FUNimation done right? Several things, actually. The character's names are (for the most part) unchanged, which is VERY rare in an English translation. I like this because I think names are important amd really make a difference in how characters are known to people. The scripting and voice acting, while certainly plagued with problems, are still a cut above most dubbed anime. The story has been kept intact to a surprising degree, and the characters have retained their personalities fairly well. The dialogue is really well-done every now and then, and they've actually fixed a few things I never liked in the Japanese version. For example, In the Japanese show, Goku, Tenshinhan, Yamucha, etc. are known collectively as "The Z Soldiers." In the English version, they are "The Defenders of Earth," which I think is a whole lot better and less corny-sounding. "Z Soldiers" is actually something I would have expected FUNimation to come up with.

And there are other aspects of the overall presentation that are better than the Japanese version. For one thing, the video is greatly enhanced, vibrant and alive, and the sound is of at least 10 times greater quality. It is a rich, booming stereo, while the Japanese version has a subdued, hollow monaural soundtrack. It's the kind of thing you need a good sound system to notice, but when you do, you REALLY do. And the neat CG animations for the episode titles are often my favorite part of the episode! They've gotten really creative with some of these, and they look terrific.

Their choice of licensees is also superb, I must say. I don't know who makes the T-shirts, but they are absolutely jaw-dropping. I personally don't like to wear clothing with any kind of logos, pictures, etc. on it, but a few of these shirts in particular are so incredibly beautiful that I have been sorely tempted...

And Pioneer is doing such great work with everything (the card game, the videos, marketing, etc.) that I kind of wish they would take over the whole US production. The videos of the TV series are great, certainly more well-done than the KidMark Dragon Ball videos. And the movie releases are something else entirely, they are truly everything a fan could hope for. Great translations, unbelievable picture quality, and stunning box art, that is, for all three of the releases so far, actually better than the originals. It's worth going out and buying the Pioneer versions even if you already own the original Japanese releases, whether or not you need the subtitles. And the dubbed versions show us EXACTLY what the aired TV series SHOULD be like. The opening/ending themes are there, the BGM is unchanged, there is no censoring or editing, and the dialogue is totally unrestrained. All that's missing is English lyrics for the themes, and FUNimation would then have no excuse whatsoever not to air the TV series just like this.

The movie releases show exactly why Pioneer is such a great choice for a licensee, everything about the work they have done reflects a great love, understanding, and respect for anime, and if FUNimation had just gone with KidMark again for Z, I guarantee you that there would NOT have been subtitled versions of these movies. Actually, the fact that there's a subtitled version domestically available at all is pretty amazing, considering that nothing like that has ever been done for any other mass-marketed, nationally syndicated anime import.

As far as the censoring is concerned, I know that not all of it can be blamed on FUNimation playing it safe. There are definetely some strict guidelines out there for what can and can't be done, and I know FUNimation is under a lot of pressure. And let's face it, this show is INCREDIBLY violent compared to most cartoons out there. People are constantly being stabbed, crushed, blasted, pummelled, vaporized, blown up, decapitated, or otherwise brutalized, and I'm surprised that so many of these scenes have stayed intact.

And its not just the censoring, that must be altered, either. FUNimation has to get out there and sell this show, and explain it, and make it look "profitable" to, an endless parade of guys in suits. Network executives, toy manufacturers, censors, etc., and there are definite adjustments that have to be made to make it appear palatable to people who know nothing about Dragon Ball, or anime, or Japanese culture itself, and who only see dollar signs.

And finally, something I think all DBZ fans in North America will have to confess. The existence of the English version is probably the one thing keeping the Dragon Ball Z fandom alive here. Let's face it, both the manga and TV series are long since over and done with, and, in Japan, DBZ fans have all moved on to new things. I myself was getting a little burned out on DBZ, until the English version came along and made things interesting again. For those of us in the US, the English version is something to chew on and bitch about, and it's bringing new fans into the fold all the time. This site certainly wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the English version, and I at least have to thank FUNimation for giving me something to happily waste my time on.

This should outright disprove that Chris didnt understand that Funimation had to make a lot of these changes to appease executives. I will NEVER say they were genuinely necessary because that's FUCKING BULLSHIT.


And that's not the only time either.

Spoiler:

(10 sec.) This is one of the bigger misleading plot alterations that FUNimation accomplishes through shrewd editing. If you are watching the English version, it appears that Dodoria fires at the Elder, but misses. Bad aim, I guess. Kuririn is given a line that helps maintain the illusion: "Whew, that was close!"
Dodoria isn't really firing at the Elder at all. He intentionally aims over his shoulder because he notices that Dende and his younger brother, Kargo, are getting away. The blast hits Kargo full force, and kills him instantly. We then see Dende shrieking and shaking his brother's body frantically, trying to revive him.

This is one of those moments where I am forced to consider if even the Japanese version may be going a little too far, and if perhaps FUNimation is justified in cutting the scene. Watching heroes die who are willfully risking their lives is one thing, but it is a little disturbing to see a young child so ruthlessly and graphically killed. I mean there's literally smoke rising from his dead body. On the other hand, it does make an incredibly powerful statement about the characters of Freeza and his henchmen, and is a perfect way to represent how truly amoral and downright evil they are. But I just can't help thinking that there are times and places for that kind of scene, and I'm not so sure Dragon Ball is one of them.

Sure, I disagree that censorship is needed, but its a bone of fairness he does throw for Funimation.

So yes, he was an "Angry Anime Guy" but he wanst a caricature, he was of course, a human being who was very passionate about how he felt about Dragon Ball.