"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[TKA]

Hating on Buu and praising Frieza in the same breath is a dubious thing to do. The Frieza in the anime’s tournament of power is NOT the Frieza Toriyama created or portrayed. They pretty much created a completely new character and slapped a Frieza-skin on him. They could easily have done the same with Buu.

In the manga, where Frieza is actually written like he’s supposed to be (re: not a silly meme character), Buu has the same potential to be magnificent while still being Buu.

[Draconic]

The train scene seems great. Will have to read it the whole thing when I have more time so I get a good grasp on things, but I like what I see.

[zarmack]

Not a bad idea, losing god powers to beat a villain. Could also bring tension back for future arcs. And considering Broly's power without God ki, they might not even need it anymore

God ki/powers were never stated to have anything to do with raw strength in the 1st place

[Doctor.]

The Frieza in the anime’s tournament of power is NOT the Frieza Toriyama created or portrayed. They pretty much created a completely new character and slapped a Frieza-skin on him.

Could you elaborate? I think most people agree it's just a logical evolution of the character now that his role in the universe has shifted, and it's not too dissimilar from the way the manga portrayed him.

Unless you're referring to the countless scenes of him showing up for some random Namek reference only to job immediately to Toppo or Jiren, in which case I'd agree, but that'd be ignoring the rest of his character moments throughout the Tournament of Power and the episodes that preceded it.

[zarmack]

Well, seems Toyotaro doing his own thing is proving to be more interesting than adapting Toriyama. This looks better than the trash we've been getting for two arcs now, which speaks more of how bad those stories were in the manga, considering the terrible new designs and the shitty premise of yet another threat sealed for millions of years that's tied in some ways to the Kaioshin. But the powers of the villain do look interesting and expanding on the Galactic Patrol is fun (tho it could go sideways fast) not to mention the art doesn't look like shit and there are actually ideas and pacing and direction taken into account when drawing the pages Still a long way away from being good, but a few great highligths in a sea of mediocrity is better than nothing and if it keeps up the whole thing would be worth it just for that. All in all? Props to Toyo.

If this is not good, what the heck is the anime? Almost all of the manga is by far better than the anime/movies.

The Black arc in the manga has pretty good drawing and development, so much better than the anime adaptation.

And nobody knows if this is original story of Toyo or Toriyama. And for now, the actual arc is by far more interesting than the 2 tournaments.

Almost everything different in the manga's Black arc is worse than the anime version, especially the manga's portrayal of Goku Black (way to ruin a character Toyotaro ).

[zarmack]

I hope they buff Boo in this arc.

why?

Why not? Having more characters be in the top tier is always welcome. Will be a breath of fresh air. It’s much better than the tired “Buu is gonna fight! Oh nope he fell asleep again.”

It is much better. Making Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks the only relevant Z-fighters was a bad idea (its a step up from what GT did, but still bad). And it makes no sense that Goku & Vegeta are the only ones that get training from Whis when the whole team would benefit from it.

[MKCSTEALTH]

Those train bandits had a very GT design. I dig it.

Also, so is the plan to extract the Dai-Kaioshin from Buu, or find a way to utilize the power he had to seal away Moros magic?

And lastly, I doubt it'll happen, but what if the end is indicative of Moro contacting Goku and taking control of him, sort of like Babidi with Majin Vegeta? Then Vegeta will go and get Broly and they have to face off with a brainwashed Goku and Moro? Again, that won't happen, but would be interesting.

Definitely interested to see how this new arc plays out

[zarmack]

The Frieza in the anime’s tournament of power is NOT the Frieza Toriyama created or portrayed. They pretty much created a completely new character and slapped a Frieza-skin on him.

Could you elaborate? I think most people agree it's just a logical evolution of the character now that his role in the universe has shifted, and it's not too dissimilar from the way the manga portrayed him.

Unless you're referring to the countless scenes of him showing up for some random Namek reference only to job immediately to Toppo or Jiren, in which case I'd agree, but that'd be ignoring the rest of his character moments throughout the Tournament of Power and the episodes that preceded it.

I was just about to say this but you beat me to it.

Also, Freeza in the manga's ToP is hardly any more serious of a character, nor was he in Toyotaro's RoF manga.

[Hulk10]

Hating on Buu and praising Frieza in the same breath is a dubious thing to do. The Frieza in the anime’s tournament of power is NOT the Frieza Toriyama created or portrayed. They pretty much created a completely new character and slapped a Frieza-skin on him. They could easily have done the same with Buu.

In the manga, where Frieza is actually written like he’s supposed to be (re: not a silly meme character), Buu has the same potential to be magnificent while still being Buu.

Not sure I agree with you on the idea that Frieza in the anime's tournament of power is a different one from the one Toriyama created.

[PFM18]

The Frieza in the anime’s tournament of power is NOT the Frieza Toriyama created or portrayed. They pretty much created a completely new character and slapped a Frieza-skin on him.

Could you elaborate? I think most people agree it's just a logical evolution of the character now that his role in the universe has shifted, and it's not too dissimilar from the way the manga portrayed him.

Unless you're referring to the countless scenes of him showing up for some random Namek reference only to job immediately to Toppo or Jiren, in which case I'd agree, but that'd be ignoring the rest of his character moments throughout the Tournament of Power and the episodes that preceded it.

I agree completely. He is an intelligent guy, and he understands his role, he knows that he's not the strongest and he had to play his cards right in order to win, opting to be more strategic this time. And we got to see the sadistic, evil Freeza who doesn't mind torturing people before eliminating them.

After Toppo beat the crap out of Freeza, he should have stayed down until 130 when he saves Goku, instead of coming back to job to Toppo or Jiren. I found that especially annoying.

I think his bias against the anime is especially evident here....

Not a bad idea, losing god powers to beat a villain. Could also bring tension back for future arcs. And considering Broly's power without God ki, they might not even need it anymore

God ki/powers were never stated to have anything to do with raw strength in the 1st place

Goku and Vegeta's forms that are/were inconceivably stronger than their normal counterparts just so happened to coincidentally have God power then?

A couple quick notes from the chapter:
-I love the concept of Dai Kaioshin giving up most of his power to seal away this Moro guys abilities.
-It seems that this Moro guy caused the extinction of life on 320 planets, could this be why we only have 28 planets with life on them now?
-It appears this Merus guy is actually fairly strong, and I like how impressed Vegeta is with him.
-I really enjoyed the scene where Goku searches for Moro's ki and you see him be shocked when viewing the guy in a sort of creepy, ominous way.

[Dbzfan94]

why?

Why not? Having more characters be in the top tier is always welcome. Will be a breath of fresh air. It’s much better than the tired “Buu is gonna fight! Oh nope he fell asleep again.”

It is much better. Making Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks the only relevant Z-fighters was a bad idea (its a step up from what GT did, but still bad). And it makes no sense that Goku & Vegeta are the only ones that get training from Whis when the whole team would benefit from it.

Exactly.

[mute_proxy]

Not a bad idea, losing god powers to beat a villain. Could also bring tension back for future arcs. And considering Broly's power without God ki, they might not even need it anymore

God ki/powers were never stated to have anything to do with raw strength in the 1st place

Huh... are you saying god ki doesnt boost/amplify the user's strength? Because that's kind of the main purpose of ki in DragonBall, to boost power/strength beyond physical capabilities.

[Doctor.]

Not a bad idea, losing god powers to beat a villain. Could also bring tension back for future arcs. And considering Broly's power without God ki, they might not even need it anymore

God ki/powers were never stated to have anything to do with raw strength in the 1st place

Huh... are you saying god ki doesnt boost/amplify the user's strength? Because that's kind of the main purpose of ki in DragonBall, to boost power/strength beyond physical capabilities.

He's saying there's no direct correlation because there isn't. Dende, the Oracle Fish, all the various Kaio and Kaioshin all have God Ki and they're not as strong as Beerus because of it; Jiren, Freeza, Hit, #17, Broly, so on and so forth, don't have God Ki and they rival Goku and Vegeta. Obviously having God Ki is an advantage but it's a very poorly defined plot device.

[mute_proxy]

God ki/powers were never stated to have anything to do with raw strength in the 1st place

Huh... are you saying god ki doesnt boost/amplify the user's strength? Because that's kind of the main purpose of ki in DragonBall, to boost power/strength beyond physical capabilities.

He's saying there's no direct correlation because there isn't. Dende, the Oracle Fish, all the various Kaio and Kaioshin all have God Ki and they're not as strong as Beerus because of it; Jiren, Freeza, Hit, #17, Broly, so on and so forth, don't have God Ki and they rival Goku and Vegeta. Obviously having God Ki is an advantage but it's a very poorly defined plot device.

It depends on how the ki is used, if at all, Dende and the others don't fight and don't utilize God ki for fighting, that's why they're not that strong, like comparing Krillin to regular civilians. And considering the non god ki users, they're different alien races that have different physical capabilities (not including upgraded human 17, and Broly is apparently an anomaly/mutation as said by King Vegeta), like how humans can't reach saiyan levels of power, Jiren's race might be stronger than saiyans. That's how I see it at least

[zarmack]

Goku and Vegeta's forms that are/were inconceivably stronger than their normal counterparts just so happened to coincidentally have God power then?

Goku & Vegeta's God forms are strong because they are simply multiple times stronger than their yellow haired forms, not because of God ki. SSG is much stronger than SSJ3, and SSB is at least 50x stronger than SSG (since its a hybrid of SSG and SSJ1, which is a 50x boost).

[mute_proxy]

Goku and Vegeta's forms that are/were inconceivably stronger than their normal counterparts just so happened to coincidentally have God power then?

Goku & Vegeta's God forms are strong because they are simply multiple times stronger than their yellow haired forms, not because of God ki. SSG is much stronger than SSJ3, and SSB is at least 50x stronger than SSG (since its a hybrid of SSG and SSJ1, which is a 50x boost).

SSJ1, SSJ2, SS3, SSGod and Blue are all ki based transformations. That means if not for the ki being used, they wouldn't exist.

[PFM18]

Goku and Vegeta's forms that are/were inconceivably stronger than their normal counterparts just so happened to coincidentally have God power then?

Goku & Vegeta's God forms are strong because they are simply multiple times stronger than their yellow haired forms, not because of God ki. SSG is much stronger than SSJ3, and SSB is at least 50x stronger than SSG (since its a hybrid of SSG and SSJ1, which is a 50x boost).

saying that they are "strong because they are multiple times stronger", isn't an explanation it's just a redundant way of restating "strength" considering that multiplying your power several fold is being strong, but it doesn't explain WHY they are strong.

Why are the God forms so much stronger?

[zarmack]

Huh... are you saying god ki doesnt boost/amplify the user's strength? Because that's kind of the main purpose of ki in DragonBall, to boost power/strength beyond physical capabilities.

He's saying there's no direct correlation because there isn't. Dende, the Oracle Fish, all the various Kaio and Kaioshin all have God Ki and they're not as strong as Beerus because of it; Jiren, Freeza, Hit, #17, Broly, so on and so forth, don't have God Ki and they rival Goku and Vegeta. Obviously having God Ki is an advantage but it's a very poorly defined plot device.

It depends on how the ki is used, if at all, Dende and the others don't fight and don't utilize God ki for fighting, that's why they're not that strong, like comparing Krillin to regular civilians. And considering the non god ki users, they're different alien races that have different physical capabilities (not including upgraded human 17, and Broly is apparently an anomaly/mutation as said by King Vegeta), like how humans can't reach saiyan levels of power, Jiren's race might be stronger than saiyans. That's how I see it at least

The Kais are fighters, yet they are weaker than many mortals without God ki, so that argument doesn't really work. Jiren's race doesn't even seem to be combat oriented like the Saiyans are, and Jiren was explicitly potrayed as unique among his people.

[zarmack]

SSJ1, SSJ2, SS3, SSGod and Blue are all ki based transformations. That means if not for the ki being used, they wouldn't exist.

Your point?

[Rakurai]

The heist scene was obv a setup to demonstrate Merus' abilities after him being able to pull a quick one on Goku/Vegeta. There's no doubt that he's extremely impressive now.

The bandits definitely had a GT-esque feel to their design. Not surprised as Toyotarou likes to use GT for reference quite often.

The dialogue in the chapter was heavy as usual.

Glad that Vegeta acknowledges Merus is a beast.

Jaco was annoying as hell.

Moro still doesn't really strike me as anyone interesting. I was more interested by Jiren after his debut chapter than I am about Moro, who doesn't seem to be any more than just a planet eater seeking to resume his activities.