The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[ZombieVito]

Until today, all Jiren’s stickers reprinted the 9,500 figure, he always had the uniform intact though.

Unfortunately, the prices of those stickers are very high, so I can’t collect all, but at least I will try to gather what I can find.

While not complete the Wikipage does have some of them.

Interestingly the stickers have Vegetto Blue and Merged Zamasu stronger than GoD Toppo and SS2 Kefla. I know some people here will disagree with this a lot.

[PFM18]

1. You have never given any counter evidence for Post-BoG Base Goku > BoG SSG Goku.

2. Kale and Broly's yellow haired forms in Super are literally just normal SSJ1, not some special unique form like Berzerk or Rage. So that means that Kale's base is greater than Caulfila's (and arguably Goku's & Vegeta's too before ep.122).

Oh I've given plenty of "counter" evidence. You just never have any evidence of it in the first place. Why? Because there is none. There's a grand total of 0 statements that corroborate this claim. None. And I don't even need evidence, because the burden of proof IS ON YOU, because you're making the claim.

Don't bring DBS Broly into this. But if you insist, it's a terrible example because his "Full-power SSJ" is completely different from his normal SSJ. So your own example disproves your premise. I was referring to the form clearly emulating LSSJ Broly from DBZ.

And Kale's BSSJ was presented as something different than normal SSJ every single time she used the form. The greener hair, the huge musculature, the loss of control. None of that is characteristic of normal SSJ. Or if it is, it's too a MUCH lesser extent.

1. Then how do you explain feats like Base Vegeta casually stomping SSJ3 Gotenks, Base Goku matching Fit Buu (who is way stronger than Buuhan), Beerus' statement early in the RoF arc while Goku & Vegea were training on his planet that the were admitting more than they had a year ago (he said this while they were in base), etc.

2. Nobody was comparing Kale & Broly's special green haired forms. I was talking about their normal, yellow haired SSJ1 forms (which were never stated to be different from everyone else's, so their multipliers are the same)
both of which where shown be above Goku's and Vegeta's (Broly's being much stronger than Goku & Vegeta's SSB forms, and Kale's being stronger than Caulfila's SSJ2 and near-equal to Goku's SSJ2 in the ToP). So their bases are obviously stronger too.

How is any of this evidence that Base>SSG? You realize you can be stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks without being stronger than Super Saiyan God right? You can be on Fit Buu's level without being stronger than fucking SSG. Obviously Goku and Vegeta got stronger during their time on Beerus's planet. That's how training works. Doesn't mean their Base is stronger than SSG.

Again, Kale is NOT based on new Broly. She's based on the old Broly and his Legendary SSJ form. It has the Huge musculature, the loss of control, and the green color. Now the picture you had of normal SSJ is literally just Kale controlling her Berserker state. Why would it be stronger than her "Broly" form if it was just normal SSJ? That makes absolutely no sense.

[zarmack]

Oh I've given plenty of "counter" evidence. You just never have any evidence of it in the first place. Why? Because there is none. There's a grand total of 0 statements that corroborate this claim. None. And I don't even need evidence, because the burden of proof IS ON YOU, because you're making the claim.

Don't bring DBS Broly into this. But if you insist, it's a terrible example because his "Full-power SSJ" is completely different from his normal SSJ. So your own example disproves your premise. I was referring to the form clearly emulating LSSJ Broly from DBZ.

And Kale's BSSJ was presented as something different than normal SSJ every single time she used the form. The greener hair, the huge musculature, the loss of control. None of that is characteristic of normal SSJ. Or if it is, it's too a MUCH lesser extent.

1. Then how do you explain feats like Base Vegeta casually stomping SSJ3 Gotenks, Base Goku matching Fit Buu (who is way stronger than Buuhan), Beerus' statement early in the RoF arc while Goku & Vegea were training on his planet that the were admitting more than they had a year ago (he said this while they were in base), etc.

2. Nobody was comparing Kale & Broly's special green haired forms. I was talking about their normal, yellow haired SSJ1 forms (which were never stated to be different from everyone else's, so their multipliers are the same)
both of which where shown be above Goku's and Vegeta's (Broly's being much stronger than Goku & Vegeta's SSB forms, and Kale's being stronger than Caulfila's SSJ2 and near-equal to Goku's SSJ2 in the ToP). So their bases are obviously stronger too.

How is any of this evidence that Base>SSG? You realize you can be stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks without being stronger than Super Saiyan God right? You can be on Fit Buu's level without being stronger than fucking SSG. Obviously Goku and Vegeta got stronger during their time on Beerus's planet. That's how training works. Doesn't mean their Base is stronger than SSG.

Again, Kale is NOT based on new Broly. She's based on the old Broly and his Legendary SSJ form. It has the Huge musculature, the loss of control, and the green color. Now the picture you had of normal SSJ is literally just Kale controlling her Berserker state. Why would it be stronger than her "Broly" form if it was just normal SSJ? That makes absolutely no sense.

1. Again, there's literally nothing suggesting that Goku & Vegeta's current bases aren't stronger than BoG SSG, especially since Beerus himself in the BoG arc said that Goku had surpassed SSG when he absorded the form's power into his base, and Vegeta surpassing that Goku after 6 months of training with Whis.

2. Your Kale arguments are pure headcanon. That picture of Kale from ep.101 I posted was NOT her Mastered Berzerk form (which didn't get revealed until ep.114), its just normal SSJ1 (which is even called such in the actual show). And that slim yellow haired form of Kale's is NOT stronger than her Berzerk form (because in ep.114, Kale was later seen powering up into her Berzerk form from her SSJ1 state, with everyone point out that her power was increasing).

[PFM18]

1. Then how do you explain feats like Base Vegeta casually stomping SSJ3 Gotenks, Base Goku matching Fit Buu (who is way stronger than Buuhan), Beerus' statement early in the RoF arc while Goku & Vegea were training on his planet that the were admitting more than they had a year ago (he said this while they were in base), etc.

2. Nobody was comparing Kale & Broly's special green haired forms. I was talking about their normal, yellow haired SSJ1 forms (which were never stated to be different from everyone else's, so their multipliers are the same)
both of which where shown be above Goku's and Vegeta's (Broly's being much stronger than Goku & Vegeta's SSB forms, and Kale's being stronger than Caulfila's SSJ2 and near-equal to Goku's SSJ2 in the ToP). So their bases are obviously stronger too.

How is any of this evidence that Base>SSG? You realize you can be stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks without being stronger than Super Saiyan God right? You can be on Fit Buu's level without being stronger than fucking SSG. Obviously Goku and Vegeta got stronger during their time on Beerus's planet. That's how training works. Doesn't mean their Base is stronger than SSG.

Again, Kale is NOT based on new Broly. She's based on the old Broly and his Legendary SSJ form. It has the Huge musculature, the loss of control, and the green color. Now the picture you had of normal SSJ is literally just Kale controlling her Berserker state. Why would it be stronger than her "Broly" form if it was just normal SSJ? That makes absolutely no sense.

1. Again, there's literally nothing suggesting that Goku & Vegeta's current bases aren't stronger than BoG SSG, especially since Beerus himself in the BoG arc said that Goku had surpassed SSG when he absorded the form's power into his base, and Vegeta surpassing that Goku after 6 months of training with Whis.

2. Your Kale arguments are pure headcanon. That picture of Kale from ep.101 I posted was NOT her Mastered Berzerk form (which didn't get revealed until ep.114), its just normal SSJ1 (which is even called such in the actual show). And that slim yellow haired form of Kale's is NOT stronger than her Berzerk form (because in ep.114, Kale was later seen powering up into her Berzerk form from her SSJ1 state, with everyone point out that her power was increasing).

Again, lack of opposing evidence is not evidence. This is a TEXTBOOK argument from ignorance. You have 0 evidence to support your claim. Beerus said that he surpassed SSG WHILE HE WAS IN SSJ. And the phrase "absorbed into base" was never even said, nor was it implied. It's entirely head canon that he retained the power SPECIFICALLY in Base, when Goku said he didn't lose power he was in SSJ.

They're the same thing. They repeated the same character arc for Kale. That's just her controlled Berserker state. And no, it was stated that she got stronger when she had her controlled Berserker state, not the other way around. This is common knowledge.

[zarmack]

How is any of this evidence that Base>SSG? You realize you can be stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks without being stronger than Super Saiyan God right? You can be on Fit Buu's level without being stronger than fucking SSG. Obviously Goku and Vegeta got stronger during their time on Beerus's planet. That's how training works. Doesn't mean their Base is stronger than SSG.

Again, Kale is NOT based on new Broly. She's based on the old Broly and his Legendary SSJ form. It has the Huge musculature, the loss of control, and the green color. Now the picture you had of normal SSJ is literally just Kale controlling her Berserker state. Why would it be stronger than her "Broly" form if it was just normal SSJ? That makes absolutely no sense.

1. Again, there's literally nothing suggesting that Goku & Vegeta's current bases aren't stronger than BoG SSG, especially since Beerus himself in the BoG arc said that Goku had surpassed SSG when he absorded the form's power into his base, and Vegeta surpassing that Goku after 6 months of training with Whis.

2. Your Kale arguments are pure headcanon. That picture of Kale from ep.101 I posted was NOT her Mastered Berzerk form (which didn't get revealed until ep.114), its just normal SSJ1 (which is even called such in the actual show). And that slim yellow haired form of Kale's is NOT stronger than her Berzerk form (because in ep.114, Kale was later seen powering up into her Berzerk form from her SSJ1 state, with everyone point out that her power was increasing).

Again, lack of opposing evidence is not evidence. This is a TEXTBOOK argument from ignorance. You have 0 evidence to support your claim. Beerus said that he surpassed SSG WHILE HE WAS IN SSJ. And the phrase "absorbed into base" was never even said, nor was it implied. It's entirely head canon that he retained the power SPECIFICALLY in Base, when Goku said he didn't lose power he was in SSJ.

They're the same thing. They repeated the same character arc for Kale. That's just her controlled Berserker state. And no, it was stated that she got stronger when she had her controlled Berserker state, not the other way around. This is common knowledge.

1. I've given plently of examples and evidence to support my views, you haven't. And the fact that you just admitted that there's a lack of evidence for you view undermines your arguments.

Also, explain how Base Vegeta after 6 months of training wasn't stated by Goku himself to be even stronger than himself when he came to visit him.

2. Do you have a source that says SSJ1 Kale > Berzerk Kale? Because ep.113-114 directly show that is false (Kale starts fighting SSJ1 Goku as a SSJ1, then Kale powers up into her Berzerk state with everyone stating that she's getting much stronger, then finally powers up again into her Mastered Berzerk form after Caulifla calms her down).

[PFM18]

1. Again, there's literally nothing suggesting that Goku & Vegeta's current bases aren't stronger than BoG SSG, especially since Beerus himself in the BoG arc said that Goku had surpassed SSG when he absorded the form's power into his base, and Vegeta surpassing that Goku after 6 months of training with Whis.

2. Your Kale arguments are pure headcanon. That picture of Kale from ep.101 I posted was NOT her Mastered Berzerk form (which didn't get revealed until ep.114), its just normal SSJ1 (which is even called such in the actual show). And that slim yellow haired form of Kale's is NOT stronger than her Berzerk form (because in ep.114, Kale was later seen powering up into her Berzerk form from her SSJ1 state, with everyone point out that her power was increasing).

Again, lack of opposing evidence is not evidence. This is a TEXTBOOK argument from ignorance. You have 0 evidence to support your claim. Beerus said that he surpassed SSG WHILE HE WAS IN SSJ. And the phrase "absorbed into base" was never even said, nor was it implied. It's entirely head canon that he retained the power SPECIFICALLY in Base, when Goku said he didn't lose power he was in SSJ.

They're the same thing. They repeated the same character arc for Kale. That's just her controlled Berserker state. And no, it was stated that she got stronger when she had her controlled Berserker state, not the other way around. This is common knowledge.

1. I've given plently of examples and evidence to support my views, you haven't. And the fact that you just admitted that there's a lack of evidence for you view undermines your arguments.

Also, explain how Base Vegeta after 6 months of training wasn't stated by Goku himself to be even stronger than himself when he came to visit him.

2. Do you have a source that says SSJ1 Kale > Berzerk Kale? Because ep.113-114 directly show that is false (Kale starts fighting SSJ1 Goku as a SSJ1, then Kale powers up into her Berzerk state with everyone stating that she's getting much stronger, then finally powers up again into her Mastered Berzerk form after Caulifla calms her down).

I was explaining what an argument from ignorance is, since you have been using it so adamantly. Lack of opposing evidence is NOT evidence, thats a fallacy. You have shown evidence that Base Goku and Vegeta are really strong, but absolutely nothing suggesting they are stronger than BoG SSG. Just because they are stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks, or Fit Buu, doesn't mean they're stronger than BoG SSG. That isnt in any way, evidence to support your claim. Oh and you made up this idea that Fit Buu>Buuhan. Sure, it may be true, but it just comes down to speculation. Theres no statement or implication, really.

Obviously Vegeta was as strong or stronger than Goku when Goku arrived on Beerus' planet. This was never disputed nor does it corroborate your point. Not even sure why you said it. You need to show that Base Goku was stronger than BoG in the first place, not that Vegeta matched him.(You'll have trouble, since there is none.)

I never claimed normal SSJ kale is stronger than her Berserker state. But when she controlled her Berseker state, Tenshinhan stated her ki had increased.

[Smilodon]

*new fights*

1. Moro (past version) Vs Super Buu?

Past Moro was defeated by Kaioshin....Super Boo was destroying planets too...He could absorb Moro too...
Then, my vote is Boo.
But it's sure that new Moro will be much stronger than any Boo.

[Hulk10]

How is any of this evidence that Base>SSG? You realize you can be stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks without being stronger than Super Saiyan God right? You can be on Fit Buu's level without being stronger than fucking SSG. Obviously Goku and Vegeta got stronger during their time on Beerus's planet. That's how training works. Doesn't mean their Base is stronger than SSG.

Again, Kale is NOT based on new Broly. She's based on the old Broly and his Legendary SSJ form. It has the Huge musculature, the loss of control, and the green color. Now the picture you had of normal SSJ is literally just Kale controlling her Berserker state. Why would it be stronger than her "Broly" form if it was just normal SSJ? That makes absolutely no sense.

1. Again, there's literally nothing suggesting that Goku & Vegeta's current bases aren't stronger than BoG SSG, especially since Beerus himself in the BoG arc said that Goku had surpassed SSG when he absorded the form's power into his base, and Vegeta surpassing that Goku after 6 months of training with Whis.

2. Your Kale arguments are pure headcanon. That picture of Kale from ep.101 I posted was NOT her Mastered Berzerk form (which didn't get revealed until ep.114), its just normal SSJ1 (which is even called such in the actual show). And that slim yellow haired form of Kale's is NOT stronger than her Berzerk form (because in ep.114, Kale was later seen powering up into her Berzerk form from her SSJ1 state, with everyone point out that her power was increasing).

Again, lack of opposing evidence is not evidence. This is a TEXTBOOK argument from ignorance. You have 0 evidence to support your claim. Beerus said that he surpassed SSG WHILE HE WAS IN SSJ. And the phrase "absorbed into base" was never even said, nor was it implied. It's entirely head canon that he retained the power SPECIFICALLY in Base, when Goku said he didn't lose power he was in SSJ.

They're the same thing. They repeated the same character arc for Kale. That's just her controlled Berserker state. And no, it was stated that she got stronger when she had her controlled Berserker state, not the other way around. This is common knowledge.

Try telling the admins of the dragon ball wikia absence of opposing evidence is not evidence.

[p-hyvo]

Again, lack of opposing evidence is not evidence. This is a TEXTBOOK argument from ignorance. You have 0 evidence to support your claim. Beerus said that he surpassed SSG WHILE HE WAS IN SSJ. And the phrase "absorbed into base" was never even said, nor was it implied. It's entirely head canon that he retained the power SPECIFICALLY in Base, when Goku said he didn't lose power he was in SSJ.

They're the same thing. They repeated the same character arc for Kale. That's just her controlled Berserker state. And no, it was stated that she got stronger when she had her controlled Berserker state, not the other way around. This is common knowledge.

1. I've given plently of examples and evidence to support my views, you haven't. And the fact that you just admitted that there's a lack of evidence for you view undermines your arguments.

Also, explain how Base Vegeta after 6 months of training wasn't stated by Goku himself to be even stronger than himself when he came to visit him.

2. Do you have a source that says SSJ1 Kale > Berzerk Kale? Because ep.113-114 directly show that is false (Kale starts fighting SSJ1 Goku as a SSJ1, then Kale powers up into her Berzerk state with everyone stating that she's getting much stronger, then finally powers up again into her Mastered Berzerk form after Caulifla calms her down).

I was explaining what an argument from ignorance is, since you have been using it so adamantly. Lack of opposing evidence is NOT evidence, thats a fallacy. You have shown evidence that Base Goku and Vegeta are really strong, but absolutely nothing suggesting they are stronger than BoG SSG. Just because they are stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks, or Fit Buu, doesn't mean they're stronger than BoG SSG. That isnt in any way, evidence to support your claim. Oh and you made up this idea that Fit Buu>Buuhan. Sure, it may be true, but it just comes down to speculation. Theres no statement or implication, really.

Obviously Vegeta was as strong or stronger than Goku when Goku arrived on Beerus' planet. This was never disputed nor does it corroborate your point. Not even sure why you said it. You need to show that Base Goku was stronger than BoG in the first place, not that Vegeta matched him.(You'll have trouble, since there is none.)

I never claimed normal SSJ kale is stronger than her Berserker state. But when she controlled her Berseker state, Tenshinhan stated her ki had increased.

Well, regiarding fit buu we must say that, if pre black goku arc goku and Vegeta are already stronger than ss3 gotenks, post,black goku arc goku and vegeta are certainly above buuhan tier in base, so fit buu is too. That's only logic.

[PFM18]

1. I've given plently of examples and evidence to support my views, you haven't. And the fact that you just admitted that there's a lack of evidence for you view undermines your arguments.

Also, explain how Base Vegeta after 6 months of training wasn't stated by Goku himself to be even stronger than himself when he came to visit him.

2. Do you have a source that says SSJ1 Kale > Berzerk Kale? Because ep.113-114 directly show that is false (Kale starts fighting SSJ1 Goku as a SSJ1, then Kale powers up into her Berzerk state with everyone stating that she's getting much stronger, then finally powers up again into her Mastered Berzerk form after Caulifla calms her down).

I was explaining what an argument from ignorance is, since you have been using it so adamantly. Lack of opposing evidence is NOT evidence, thats a fallacy. You have shown evidence that Base Goku and Vegeta are really strong, but absolutely nothing suggesting they are stronger than BoG SSG. Just because they are stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks, or Fit Buu, doesn't mean they're stronger than BoG SSG. That isnt in any way, evidence to support your claim. Oh and you made up this idea that Fit Buu>Buuhan. Sure, it may be true, but it just comes down to speculation. Theres no statement or implication, really.

Obviously Vegeta was as strong or stronger than Goku when Goku arrived on Beerus' planet. This was never disputed nor does it corroborate your point. Not even sure why you said it. You need to show that Base Goku was stronger than BoG in the first place, not that Vegeta matched him.(You'll have trouble, since there is none.)

I never claimed normal SSJ kale is stronger than her Berserker state. But when she controlled her Berseker state, Tenshinhan stated her ki had increased.

Well, regiarding fit buu we must say that, if pre black goku arc goku and Vegeta are already stronger than ss3 gotenks, post,black goku arc goku and vegeta are certainly above buuhan tier in base, so fit buu is too. That's only logic.

The way he was using it was circular reasoning.

Why are Goku/Vegeta's Base super strong?
Goku was able to fight Fit Buu who's stronger than Buuhan!
Why is Fit Buu strong/stronger than Buuhan?
Because Goku and Vegeta's Base are super strong!
Why is Goku's Base super strong?
Because he fought Fit Buu!
etc etc.

And I mean, let's pretend Goku/Vegeta in Base were SSJ3 Gotenks level, it's entirely head canon to say they received a boost during the Zamasu arc that's larger than the gap between SSJ3 Gotenks and Buuhan. Oh, and Goku seemed to be taking the fight very casually, anyway.

[p-hyvo]

I was explaining what an argument from ignorance is, since you have been using it so adamantly. Lack of opposing evidence is NOT evidence, thats a fallacy. You have shown evidence that Base Goku and Vegeta are really strong, but absolutely nothing suggesting they are stronger than BoG SSG. Just because they are stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks, or Fit Buu, doesn't mean they're stronger than BoG SSG. That isnt in any way, evidence to support your claim. Oh and you made up this idea that Fit Buu>Buuhan. Sure, it may be true, but it just comes down to speculation. Theres no statement or implication, really.

Obviously Vegeta was as strong or stronger than Goku when Goku arrived on Beerus' planet. This was never disputed nor does it corroborate your point. Not even sure why you said it. You need to show that Base Goku was stronger than BoG in the first place, not that Vegeta matched him.(You'll have trouble, since there is none.)

I never claimed normal SSJ kale is stronger than her Berserker state. But when she controlled her Berseker state, Tenshinhan stated her ki had increased.

Well, regiarding fit buu we must say that, if pre black goku arc goku and Vegeta are already stronger than ss3 gotenks, post,black goku arc goku and vegeta are certainly above buuhan tier in base, so fit buu is too. That's only logic.

The way he was using it was circular reasoning.

Why are Goku/Vegeta's Base super strong?
Goku was able to fight Fit Buu who's stronger than Buuhan!
Why is Fit Buu strong/stronger than Buuhan?
Because Goku and Vegeta's Base are super strong!
Why is Goku's Base super strong?
Because he fought Fit Buu!
etc etc.

And I mean, let's pretend Goku/Vegeta in Base were SSJ3 Gotenks level, it's entirely head canon to say they received a boost during the Zamasu arc that's larger than the gap between SSJ3 Gotenks and Buuhan. Oh, and Goku seemed to be taking the fight very casually, anyway.

Between ssj3 gotenks and gohan there Is more or less a x2,5 gap, it Is mothing that enormous.
And considering that SSB vegeta (vs merged) and Black goku rosè (scythe) are stronger than ssj kkx10 goku in u6 arc , yes they got a boost greater than x2,5 in zamasu arc, no doubt.
Lowballing and having potafeu goku at ssj3 gotenks x1,25, post zamasu arc base goku is surely at least x8 of that, so over buuhan.
Moreover, tdp god goku > post zamasu arc bike goku, so tdp goku is at least x32 potafeu goku lowballing, and fit buu Putted him in difficulty. Yes, considering that fit buu>>>>buuhan and easily ssj vegetto(z) someway, depending on how do you calculate ssb

[PFM18]

Between ssj3 gotenks and gohan there Is more or less a x2,5 gap, it Is mothing that enormous.

I assume you mean Buuhan and not Gohan?

Yeah you just kind of made that up. It really comes down to conjecture, head canon, and speculation. Don't get me wrong, I agree with that figure but you present it as though it is a fact.

The point was, he was using Fit Buu being stronger than Buuhan as a result of being able to compete with Base Goku. In the same token, he said Base Goku is really strong in part because he could fight Fit Buu. It's circular reasoning.

And I'm not even sure what you mean by the last power chain.

tdp god goku > post zamasu arc bike goku

I'm guessing you mean ToP SSG>post-zamasu arc SSB? Not sure how you came to this conclusion, and it certainly isn't something definitive.

[zarmack]

ToP SSG Goku vs RoF SSB Goku
Ikari Broly vs 1st Omen Goku
Suppressed Jiren vs SSG Gogeta (Broly film)
True Golden Freeza vs U6 arc SSB Goku (no kaioken) & SSB Vegeta
SSJ Rage Trunks (end of Black arc, no Hope Sword) vs Base Toppo
SSJ4 Goku (Buu arc) vs Buuhan
SSJ3 Vegeta (Cell Games) vs Fat Buu
MUI Goku (ToP) vs SSJ4 Goku (End of GT, 100 year timeskip)

[p-hyvo]

Between ssj3 gotenks and gohan there Is more or less a x2,5 gap, it Is mothing that enormous.

I assume you mean Buuhan and not Gohan?

Yeah you just kind of made that up. It really comes down to conjecture, head canon, and speculation. Don't get me wrong, I agree with that figure but you present it as though it is a fact.

The point was, he was using Fit Buu being stronger than Buuhan as a result of being able to compete with Base Goku. In the same token, he said Base Goku is really strong in part because he could fight Fit Buu. It's circular reasoning.

And I'm not even sure what you mean by the last power chain.

tdp god goku > post zamasu arc bike goku

I'm guessing you mean ToP SSG>post-zamasu arc SSB? Not sure how you came to this conclusion, and it certainly isn't something definitive.

Lol yes i meant blue goku ,Idk why my phone typed bike
That's why post black goku arc goku tied with hit in ssb, while at the top god goku saved hit from dyspo


Then hit adapted and heated dyspo by himself

[p-hyvo]

ToP SSG Goku vs RoF SSB Goku
Ikari Broly vs 1st Omen Goku
Suppressed Jiren vs SSG Gogeta (Broly film)
True Golden Freeza vs U6 arc SSB Goku (no kaioken) & SSB Vegeta
SSJ Rage Trunks (end of Black arc, no Hope Sword) vs Base Toppo
SSJ4 Goku (Buu arc) vs Buuhan
SSJ3 Vegeta (Cell Games) vs Fat Buu
MUI Goku (ToP) vs SSJ4 Goku (End of GT, 100 year timeskip)

SSg goku ,goku omen, gogeta,true golden freezer,base toppo,ssj4goku,fat buu and mui goku wins

[PFM18]

Between ssj3 gotenks and gohan there Is more or less a x2,5 gap, it Is mothing that enormous.

I assume you mean Buuhan and not Gohan?

Yeah you just kind of made that up. It really comes down to conjecture, head canon, and speculation. Don't get me wrong, I agree with that figure but you present it as though it is a fact.

The point was, he was using Fit Buu being stronger than Buuhan as a result of being able to compete with Base Goku. In the same token, he said Base Goku is really strong in part because he could fight Fit Buu. It's circular reasoning.

And I'm not even sure what you mean by the last power chain.

tdp god goku > post zamasu arc bike goku

I'm guessing you mean ToP SSG>post-zamasu arc SSB? Not sure how you came to this conclusion, and it certainly isn't something definitive.

Lol yes i meant blue goku ,Idk why my phone typed bike
That's why post black goku arc goku tied with hit in ssb, while at the top god goku saved hit from dyspo


Then hit adapted and heated dyspo by himself

Okay just because Goku "saved" Hit as a SSG, does not mean hes stronger than Hit. That's a very lofty conclusion to make based on so little. Besides, Goku ultimately did use Blue when he attacked Dyspo

And no, it has absolutely nothing to do with Hit adapting. He had just outsmarted Dyspo with his time-skip tactics.

[Tai Lung]

Next Battle

Basil VS Piccolo
Team Universe 9 VS Team Universe 10
Team Universe 6 VS Team Universe 3
Goku Black VS Toppo
Caulifla VS Uub (GT)
Ganos VS Pan (GT)
caway VS Mamba (GT)

[ZombieVito]

Next Battle

Basil VS Piccolo
Team Universe 9 VS Team Universe 10
Team Universe 6 VS Team Universe 3
Goku Black VS Toppo
Caulifla VS Uub (GT)
Ganos VS Pan (GT)
caway VS Mamba (GT)

Piccolo finger flicks. He's 100 times stronger than base Gohan who matched Lavender and I don't think the Trio de Danger are that much different from each other power wise.
Universe 10. Obuni and Rubalt outclass all of U9.
Black beats him but before killing him, Toppo transforms into a GoD and hakai's him.
Caulifla.
Ganos.
Caway.

[Ssjcell]

Look base Goku and Vegeta don't take ss3 Gotenks seriously anymore first off
Base Goku in bog did fight beerus for a couple minutes evenly it looks like Goku and Vegeta base is greater than bog ssg

[Green]

ToP SSG Goku vs RoF SSB Goku
Ikari Broly vs 1st Omen Goku
Suppressed Jiren vs SSG Gogeta (Broly film)
True Golden Freeza vs U6 arc SSB Goku (no kaioken) & SSB Vegeta
SSJ Rage Trunks (end of Black arc, no Hope Sword) vs Base Toppo
SSJ4 Goku (Buu arc) vs Buuhan
SSJ3 Vegeta (Cell Games) vs Fat Buu
MUI Goku (ToP) vs SSJ4 Goku (End of GT, 100 year timeskip)

SSB demolishes.
Goku wins easily.
This Gogeta beats any non serious Jiren.
Freezer
Trunks got a powerup fighting MZ and performes way better than Goku/Vegeta. I think he wins here.
Goku.
Buu after a tough fight.
SS4 Goku has no actual feats, and even assuming he reached Gogeta's level he still loses.