Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

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Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by theherodjl » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:28 pm

Surely there isn't some even greater power that craps all over UI in terms of strength & ability, right? Whis has stated that UI is the "state of the Gods" which clearly defines Goku as having achieved power greater than any mere mortal could hope to reach so it stands to reason that there isn't or couldn't be anything inherently better. But if there somehow is something better then what could it possibly be???
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:59 pm

Goku becomes the new Zeno but never actually uses Zeno's power because it would be too boring. So the end result is that he might as well not have it.
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:03 pm

I’m assuming it is supposed to be treated as his ultimate power up. Why else would they have it be a form that Goku can’t use whenever he wants?

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:02 pm

I guess a SSBlue breaking his limits and attaining a technique or state that angels teach to GoDs has to be the ultimate power up.

But Belmod said it already, how many times is Goku going to break his limits? so maybe they'll make him turn SS while UI like they did with the SS God.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by Shaddy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:08 pm

I hope so. See, I don't mind Dragon Ball being extended via Super. In fact, I want it to continue for longer such that we can work in the EoZ stuff, maybe rewrite a couple GT ideas to be good, and get interesting original concepts in between all that. That's fine. Hell, remaking stuff after it's all done is fine too. But I don't want Dragon Ball to be the endless not-quite-winning battle of say, American super hero comics. I'd prefer it to have a definitive end. And Goku fully harnessing and keeping Ultra Instinct active (as it's not a mere ki boost, this could be possible) should be the heralding of that end if you ask me. You might have to drag things out along all that other stuff I mentioned to do it, but having his hair go fully white and stay that way is a good way of bookending that he's reached his true highest limit. Maybe without even any aura or different movement from his normal hair. It'd kind of signify that this is the complete, "enlightened" Goku as it were. I don't want him to be stuck with "who's the next strongest in the multi-multiverse" forever. The "there's always a bigger fish" comment always stuck out to me of saying "your life is hell and it's going to be that way forever", in a way. Having Goku move on from that, it'd be a relief.
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by theherodjl » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:58 am

Koitsukai wrote:I guess a SSBlue breaking his limits and attaining a technique or state that angels teach to GoDs has to be the ultimate power up.

But Belmod said it already, how many times is Goku going to break his limits? so maybe they'll make him turn SS while UI like they did with the SS God.
Wouldn't that hinder UI? The point of UI is to surrender the mind to pure, raw instinct and fight without letting thoughts interfere with form. If Goku tries going SSJ on top of that then the inherent nature of SSJ would emerge and make Goku's heart subsceptible to rage & impurity thus leading to thoughts in Goku's mind. SSJB offers tranquility over the ordinary SSJ forms but there is still the fact that Goku would be pressuring his body to put out more strength which would cause distraction due to any discomfort or pain he would feel.
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:22 am

There is still one level that Goku can unlock and that is Super Saiyan Rosé. I don't believe that that is unique to Goku Black alone, I think that any Saiyan can unlock it, provided that they have a divine heart and have surpassed Super Saiyan God. So if Goku ascended to godhood and became a God of Destruction, he would be able to unlock Super Saiyan Rosé. That would actually be more special than Ultra Instinct, that can be achieved by Gods and mortals alike.

Obviously I am not saying that Rosé is stronger than Ultra Instinct, but it is a new level of power that Goku could potentially attain if he became a God.
which clearly defines Goku as having achieved power greater than any mere mortal could hope to reach
That's funny, I believe that that is the exact thing that Black said upon revealing Rosé.

But you claim that Ultra Instinct cannot be achieved by a mere mortal, yet Goku is a mere mortal.
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by Rubens » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:57 am

Personally, I hope it is because this series has seen so (or too) many power-ups and forms already. I want the focus to be on good stories and slowly develop the new generation.
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by Muffin Man » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:50 am

They can only recolor Goku's hair so many times. How many colors are even left? We just need green and we'll have one for all of the original Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:30 pm

Super Saiyan was the "legendary warrior who was invincible in battle, would climb all walls, ...."


Super Saiyan god was what beerus had wet dreams about, goku couldn't even fathom a power like that could exist.


Don't get caught up in the verbal hype around a form, UI will be surpassed multiple times over with some new color or multi color

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:00 pm

UI is, for all purposes, the ultimate maximization of the Base State.

Which Toriyama always said was the best compared to the SS transformaions.

Every improvement in Goku's martial skill is maximized by the UI state, from new technique to just basic improvement on the already known ones.
The only way to actually improve on UI would be getting a different\better "base", like SS4, if that state was appliable naturally.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:22 pm

It has to be. I couldn't imagine something greater to it. They've already established people can get relativistic in power to the form without needing it with Jiren.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by theherodjl » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:58 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:Don't get caught up in the verbal hype around a form, UI will be surpassed multiple times over with some new color or multi color
But UI is already white which is all colors merged into one, it would be redundant to follow a new line of transformations with individual colors representing an upgrade when they've all been merged already.
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by nato25 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:46 pm

I hope so, and I hope Goku doesn't master it properly (in terms of being able to do it at will) until they are ready to be done with Goku as a character and he can use it in his epic final battle against whatever his opponent is.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:41 am

I honestly really hope so.

There's a certain poetic finality to a power where you give yourself over to pure martial arts mastery, moving without even needing to think.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:44 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:I honestly really hope so.

There's a certain poetic finality to a power where you give yourself over to pure martial arts mastery, moving without even needing to think.
it's also quite the old martial art trope, becoming so good your body does all the work, as well as empty one's mind.

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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by FutureTrunks » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:06 pm

Muffin Man wrote:They can only recolor Goku's hair so many times. How many colors are even left? We just need green and we'll have one for all of the original Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.
LOL, hilarious!!

But I hope its his final ultimate powerup.
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by Kaboom » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:01 pm

Chronologically speaking, Goku still has a high note to end on... though only within a different branching reality where new transformations are better designed.
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by dbzfan7 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:52 pm

Nothing is sacred. Give it time and there will be something. There is no high nor low the series probably won't go to eventually.
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Re: Is Ultra Instinct The *Final* Or *Ultimate* Powerup For Goku?

Post by theherodjl » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:13 am

dbzfan7 wrote:Nothing is sacred. Give it time and there will be something. There is no high nor low the series probably won't go to eventually.
So what are we looking at? Goku has discovered the ultimate martial art with UI, how is he going to surpass that?
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