Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ssj3kakarot]

I didnt like how base Goku tangled with Broly for as long as he did. He clearly was overwhelmed, but he was literally moments before making ssg Vegeta-sama look like Yamcha. I understand Goku transforming to ssj and then God is more theatrical, but it just doesn't sit well AT ALL. I'll wait for people to defend why Goku wasn't absolutely trashed instantly. For the record, I always want Goku to win, but come on.

Well, now that he's seen how Broly fights, he can better counter and react to his fighting style and overall movements. Knowing HOW your opponent fights can be just as if not more important than how strong or fast they fight.

He's pacing himself, trying to hang in while using as little power as possible so that he has enough later on.

We see that, with SSG himself, he's still at a strength disadvantage but uses Broly's movements against him and uses the God Bind to keep him entangled long enough to try and reason with him. It's only when Broly wises up and starts to put on more pressure that he begins thrashing SSG Goku. Even though Vegeta is just as strong as Goku in all the same forms, he's a much more straightforward fighter and less prone to taking advantage of an opponent's particular fighting style and movements.

I knew someone would rise to the occasion. We know that the gap between (base, ss1,ssj2,ssj3) and SSG is so astronomical people literally don't stand a chance against someone who has SSG level powers. Look at Beerus vs SSJ3 Goku. That was the whole reason Goku needed the ritual. It didn't matter how much Goku watched Beerus move or fight, he would have never been able to stand a chance against a monstrous power level difference.

We also know that base goku is drastically weaker than SSG Goku. It's a safe assumption that Vegeta and Goku are relatively equal in power. So even though there are times when knowing HOW your opponent fights can be valuable, it never gives the "viewer" such an advantage that it allows them to take hits from a person who is many orders of magnitude stronger than they are. Krillin has watched Goku fight many times, but when base Goku punched Krillin seriously, Krillin flew a mile and almost died. The fact that Broly and Goku clased fist and Goku seemed to be able to match that inital hit was absolute garbage.

I will say that I think Goku should fight better against Broly than Vegeta did, because like you said, Goku was able to watch the fight. However, that should only be true when similar power levels are being taken into consideration. That scene just doesn't sit right with me.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I didnt like how base Goku tangled with Broly for as long as he did. He clearly was overwhelmed, but he was literally moments before making ssg Vegeta-sama look like Yamcha. I understand Goku transforming to ssj and then God is more theatrical, but it just doesn't sit well AT ALL. I'll wait for people to defend why Goku wasn't absolutely trashed instantly. For the record, I always want Goku to win, but come on.

Well, now that he's seen how Broly fights, he can better counter and react to his fighting style and overall movements. Knowing HOW your opponent fights can be just as if not more important than how strong or fast they fight.

He's pacing himself, trying to hang in while using as little power as possible so that he has enough later on.

We see that, with SSG himself, he's still at a strength disadvantage but uses Broly's movements against him and uses the God Bind to keep him entangled long enough to try and reason with him. It's only when Broly wises up and starts to put on more pressure that he begins thrashing SSG Goku. Even though Vegeta is just as strong as Goku in all the same forms, he's a much more straightforward fighter and less prone to taking advantage of an opponent's particular fighting style and movements.

I knew someone would rise to the occasion. We know that the gap between (base, ss1,ssj2,ssj3) and SSG is so astronomical people literally don't stand a chance against someone who has SSG level powers. Look at Beerus vs SSJ3 Goku. That was the whole reason Goku needed the ritual. It didn't matter how much Goku watched Beerus move or fight, he would have never been able to stand a chance against a monstrous power level difference.

We also know that base goku is drastically weaker than SSG Goku. It's a safe assumption that Vegeta and Goku are relatively equal in power. So even though there are times when knowing HOW your opponent fights can be valuable, it never gives the "viewer" such an advantage that it allows them to take hits from a person who is many orders of magnitude stronger than they are. Krillin has watched Goku fight many times, but when base Goku punched Krillin seriously, Krillin flew a mile and almost died. The fact that Broly and Goku clased fist and Goku seemed to be able to match that inital hit was absolute garbage.

I will say that I think Goku should fight better against Broly than Vegeta did, because like you said, Goku was able to watch the fight. However, that should only be true when similar power levels are being taken into consideration. That scene just doesn't sit right with me.

I'm well aware that people think that there's a hard ceiling for how far combat skill and good martial arts practice can take a fighter in this franchise. Personally, I don't think there is a hard limit and that it only depends on who exactly is fighting who under which circumstances.

For example, there can be times where fighting someone hundreds of times stronger than you is easier than someone only a few times stronger than you, etc., and it can be hard to pinpoint exactly when the distinction ought to be made. It's not like Goku hasn't fought against people where there was such a huge power difference and didn't do okay. For example, in his tired-out base form, he did well against SS2 Caulifla; he also did better in SSB against Jiren after their initial fight, and he didn't get noticeably stronger there either.

At the end of the day, I can accept that Goku is skilled enough and Ikari Broly mindless enough that Goku can hang in for a brief few moments in lower forms before resorting to his higher forms. We have to remember as well that Goku wasn't Broly's target, he just wanted a piece of the action while Broly didn't know exactly what he was doing.

[PFM18]

Well, not sure how to answer this considering the phrase "god level" is incredibly vague.

Goku can fight with people who are current SSG tier in base. Even though it doesn't make much sense.

Nah, I don't buy that, it was a very brief scene that you can't really draw much from. Just sort of a sequence to give Goku a chance to cycle through the forms.

[dragon boss z]

Nah, I don't buy that, it was a very brief scene that you can't really draw much from. Just sort of a sequence to give Goku a chance to cycle through the forms.

It's not like they had Goku just dodging Broly though. Broly visibly powered up again, right before he fought Goku, meaning he was stronger than he was against SSG Vegeta, and Goku was clashing punches with him. My head canon is Vegeta wasn't going all out on Broly as a SSG, as Goku cut in before there fight could finish, along with Goku using his skill to keep up, like how he did against ssj2 Caulifla in the ToP.

[Zamasu55]

So, about Moro:

He's got a "magic-less self" that was able to toy around with Ssj Vegeta, in a similar way to Future Zamasu's fight with Goku back in the Future Trunks arc. But he's beaten up pretty easily by SsjG Vegeta.

Now in the next chapter, he'll be using his magic. We'll see.

[Koitsukai]

I don't think Goku was actually matching or clashing with Broly at all, I should watch it again but isn't that part when the first-person camera comes in and we go along with Broly just trashing Goku throughout the mountains? Goku landed 0 hits if I'm not wrong, the only weird thing that comes up to mind is that he didn't die but he is quite durable anyway. Also, he does seem to have a stronger SSG than Vegeta, or at least he uses it better.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I don't think Goku was actually matching or clashing with Broly at all, I should watch it again but isn't that part when the first-person camera comes in and we go along with Broly just trashing Goku throughout the mountains? Goku landed 0 hits if I'm not wrong, the only weird thing that comes up to mind is that he didn't die but he is quite durable anyway. Also, he does seem to have a stronger SSG than Vegeta, or at least he uses it better.

Goku didn't press the offensive too often before turning SSB, mostly going for quick hit-and-run clashes and constantly backpedaling against Broly.

Even in SSG, he mostly tries to either use Broly's wild strength and lack of coordination against him or try not to get smushed.

There's really nothing egregious in terms of power-scaling, just the wrinkle of people having to accept that being many times stronger doesn't necessarily mean you should be instantly killing/knocking out your opponent.

[Brettjr25]

Just out of curiosity, how far do you guys think Jiren would be able to push post TOP Gogeta? Given how UI Goku dominated him, even at full power? how you answer would kind of determine how strong UI Goku is compared to Gogeta. I hope some thought goes into this question.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Just out of curiosity, how far do you guys think Jiren would be able to push post TOP Gogeta? Given how UI Goku dominated him, even at full power? how you answer would kind of determine how strong UI Goku is compared to Gogeta. I hope some thought goes into this question.

It all really depends on how strong one would place Jiren himself.

There's a stark divide.

Some believe he is inferior to Beerus, whilst others (including myself) believe he's far surpassed the Gods of Destruction. Personally, I could see the latter interpretation stalemating if not outright surpassing Gogeta Blue. Ultra Instinct seems to be the new replacement for "a power that surpasses even Fusion" that SSG used to be. Not to mention that most other media portray Ultra Instinct as far above any and all Fusions, as well.

If Jiren can compete with that in any capacity, he's above current Fusions in my book. However, others will disagree, and we'll probably go in circles about that like we have before for ages unless one of the 3 Ts outright states something on the matter.

[dragon boss z]

Just out of curiosity, how far do you guys think Jiren would be able to push post TOP Gogeta? Given how UI Goku dominated him, even at full power? how you answer would kind of determine how strong UI Goku is compared to Gogeta. I hope some thought goes into this question.

He would push him to Blue, but lose. Jiren was stated to be above GoD level, and Goku said he thought Broly was probably stronger than Beerus, and Beerus seems to be a top tier GoD, so that should put Broly near Jiren level, and SSB Gogeta was kicking Broly's butt pretty good. Jiren also had some trouble against Goku, Vegeta, and 17, while even before reaching full power ssj Broly had Goku and Vegeta running after about a minute of fighting.
ssj2 Kefla also gave UIO Goku some problems, so ssj Gogeta, who is someone I think would stomp ssj2 Kefla, would probably be above UIO Goku or at least around that level. Then it comes down to if you think MUI is a bigger jump from UIO than SSB is from ssj.
There is also the line where SSB Vegito was said to be on par or possibly stronger than Beerus in the Black arc by Shin in the manga. So that would already put black arc Vegito close to Jiren, and by the ToP SSB Vegito should be at or above Jiren level at least, and then this is after the ToP and a new magazine or guide or something said Gogeta and Vegito are equal in power.
So as of now I would say most evidence points to SSB Gogeta being above Jiren for now, but Jiren has enough feats to warrant him being put above ssj Gogeta.

[HeroR]

He would push him to Blue, but lose. Jiren was stated to be above GoD level, and Goku said he thought Broly was probably stronger than Beerus, and Beerus seems to be a top tier GoD, so that should put Broly near Jiren level, and SSB Gogeta was kicking Broly's butt pretty good. Jiren also had some trouble against Goku, Vegeta, and 17, while even before reaching full power ssj Broly had Goku and Vegeta running after about a minute of fighting.
ssj2 Kefla also gave UIO Goku some problems, so ssj Gogeta, who is someone I think would stomp ssj2 Kefla, would probably be above UIO Goku or at least around that level. Then it comes down to if you think MUI is a bigger jump from UIO than SSB is from ssj.
There is also the line where SSB Vegito was said to be on par or possibly stronger than Beerus in the Black arc by Shin in the manga. So that would already put black arc Vegito close to Jiren, and by the ToP SSB Vegito should be at or above Jiren level at least, and then this is after the ToP and a new magazine or guide or something said Gogeta and Vegito are equal in power.
So as of now I would say most evidence points to SSB Gogeta being above Jiren for now, but Jiren has enough feats to warrant him being put above ssj Gogeta.

That's on the manga, not the anime which two different scales. We have no clue how the Gods of Destruction actually scale from each other. Even using the manga, they're all within the same tier since they can hurt each other. The thing Beerus had going for him was access to incomplete UI.

Jiren also had no real problem against Goku, Vegeta, and 17. In fact, 17 was the only one who did any damaged to him since he snuck up on him since Jiren couldn't sense him. That along with Jiren fighting Blue Kaioken and Blue Evolved instead of just Blue. And Jiren himself wasn't going all out until 129, where he outpaced UI Omen Goku who was stronger than all three of the people Jiren fought before. That and the trouble Kelfa gave UI Omen was more to do with Goku's low attack power not being enough to put her down. Otherwise, Kelfa got stomped and Omen in 129 is stronger than the one in 116.

Again, anime scaling isn't manga scaling. Otherwise, we can say Anime Merged Zamasu is closed to Jiren since he fought on par with Vegito Blue, something Shin refutes when he called Jiren like nothing they every fought before, 'he's strong, plain and simple'.

[dragon boss z]

That's on the manga, not the anime which two different scales.

The Broly movie seems to follow more of the manga or movie continuity than the anime's, though it might not be trying to be following any of them specifically.
The biggest reason for this is Goku and Vegeta only use SSB, no kaoken or SSBE, which would make it more like the manga, but they don't use mastered SSB either, so that makes it more like movies, which are really the only continuity where regular SSB is still their strongest regular form.
Supporting evidence is Tarble is mentioned, and he is only mentioned in the BoG movie, not Super. Kid Vegeta's hare is like how it was in BoG, not the anime or Super manga. They are using first form Frieza's original manga colors.

This movie as of now is a continuation of all 3 versions though, unless they do a retelling arc it may stay that way, and the manga already skipped this arc, so that basically confirms this fits in with the manga.

We have no clue how the Gods of Destruction actually scale from each other. Even using the manga, they're all within the same tier since they can hurt each other. The thing Beerus had going for him was access to incomplete UI.

I was counting his incomplete UI.

Jiren also had no real problem against Goku, Vegeta, and 17. In fact, 17 was the only one who did any damaged to him since he snuck up on him since Jiren couldn't sense him. That along with Jiren fighting Blue Kaioken and Blue Evolved instead of just Blue. And Jiren himself wasn't going all out until 129, where he outpaced UI Omen Goku who was stronger than all three of the people Jiren fought before. That and the trouble Kelfa gave UI Omen was more to do with Goku's low attack power not being enough to put her down. Otherwise, Kelfa got stomped and Omen in 129 is stronger than the one in 116.

As I said above using kkx20 and SSBE as an argument isn't really are, as it seems that isn't a part of the movie's continuity. Though SSB in the movie is much darker than it was in RoF and Super, so you could use head canon and say they were actually using SSBE but it doesn't have pupils or sparkles.

Again, anime scaling isn't manga scaling. Otherwise, we can say Anime Merged Zamasu is closed to Jiren since he fought on par with Vegito Blue, something Shin refutes when he called Jiren like nothing they every fought before, 'he's strong, plain and simple'.

I agree, but if you are comparing a movie that doesn't even follow the anime's scaling, what sense is there to use anime only scaling?

[HeroR]

That's on the manga, not the anime which two different scales.

The Broly movie seems to follow more of the manga or movie continuity than the anime's, though it might not be trying to be following any of them specifically.
The biggest reason for this is Goku and Vegeta only use SSB, no kaoken or SSBE, which would make it more like the manga, but they don't use mastered SSB either, so that makes it more like movies, which are really the only continuity where regular SSB is still their strongest regular form.
Supporting evidence is Tarble is mentioned, and he is only mentioned in the BoG movie, not Super. Kid Vegeta's hare is like how it was in BoG, not the anime or Super manga. They are using first form Frieza's original manga colors.

This movie as of now is a continuation of all 3 versions though, unless they do a retelling arc it may stay that way, and the manga already skipped this arc, so that basically confirms this fits in with the manga.

We have no clue how the Gods of Destruction actually scale from each other. Even using the manga, they're all within the same tier since they can hurt each other. The thing Beerus had going for him was access to incomplete UI.

I was counting his incomplete UI.

Jiren also had no real problem against Goku, Vegeta, and 17. In fact, 17 was the only one who did any damaged to him since he snuck up on him since Jiren couldn't sense him. That along with Jiren fighting Blue Kaioken and Blue Evolved instead of just Blue. And Jiren himself wasn't going all out until 129, where he outpaced UI Omen Goku who was stronger than all three of the people Jiren fought before. That and the trouble Kelfa gave UI Omen was more to do with Goku's low attack power not being enough to put her down. Otherwise, Kelfa got stomped and Omen in 129 is stronger than the one in 116.

As I said above using kkx20 and SSBE as an argument isn't really are, as it seems that isn't a part of the movie's continuity. Though SSB in the movie is much darker than it was in RoF and Super, so you could use head canon and say they were actually using SSBE but it doesn't have pupils or sparkles.

Again, anime scaling isn't manga scaling. Otherwise, we can say Anime Merged Zamasu is closed to Jiren since he fought on par with Vegito Blue, something Shin refutes when he called Jiren like nothing they every fought before, 'he's strong, plain and simple'.

I agree, but if you are comparing a movie that doesn't even follow the anime's scaling, what sense is there to use anime only scaling?

Both the director of the movie and Toriyama said it follows the anime. Even Shenron only granting one wish is a reference to Epsoide 68 and Bulma even says the dragon will be back in four months.

His incomplete UI only allows him to dodge, not boost his power. Even then, he still got tagged. So none of the gods are really above each other if we used the manga. In the anime, we just know one god in particular is above Beerus according to Whis, who seems to be Belmond who Jiren is stronger than.

Well, director says this continues the anime and the fact is Jiren fought stronger forms and power-ups compared to Broly. He also fought more Blue level people at once compared to Broly with only 17 doing anything because he used a sneak attack.

And again, the director says it continues the anime, so using the anime scaling makes more sense than using the manga. That and the director worked on the anime, not the manga.

[PFM18]

Both the director of the movie and Toriyama said it follows the anime. Even Shenron only granting one wish is a reference to Epsoide 68 and Bulma even says the dragon will be back in four months.

His incomplete UI only allows him to dodge, not boost his power. Even then, he still got tagged. So none of the gods are really above each other if we used the manga. In the anime, we just know one god in particular is above Beerus according to Whis, who seems to be Belmond who Jiren is stronger than.

Well, director says this continues the anime and the fact is Jiren fought stronger forms and power-ups compared to Broly. He also fought more Blue level people at once compared to Broly with only 17 doing anything because he used a sneak attack.

And again, the director says it continues the anime, so using the anime scaling makes more sense than using the manga. That and the director worked on the anime, not the manga.

Toriyama didn't say it takes place after the anime continuity. He was just commenting that it takes place after the ToP. I don't recall the director saying that, you're going to have to actually provide a source.

Quite simply, if it was in the anime's continuity, Vegeta would have used SSBE and Goku would have used SSBKK.

The Broly movie seems to follow more of the manga or movie continuity than the anime's, though it might not be trying to be following any of them specifically.
The biggest reason for this is Goku and Vegeta only use SSB, no kaoken or SSBE, which would make it more like the manga, but they don't use mastered SSB either, so that makes it more like movies, which are really the only continuity where regular SSB is still their strongest regular form.
Supporting evidence is Tarble is mentioned, and he is only mentioned in the BoG movie, not Super. Kid Vegeta's hare is like how it was in BoG, not the anime or Super manga. They are using first form Frieza's original manga colors.

This movie as of now is a continuation of all 3 versions though, unless they do a retelling arc it may stay that way, and the manga already skipped this arc, so that basically confirms this fits in with the manga.

It doesn't follow either continuity, and not more of one than the other. It doesn't use MSSB or SSBKK/SSBE.

Just out of curiosity, how far do you guys think Jiren would be able to push post TOP Gogeta? Given how UI Goku dominated him, even at full power? how you answer would kind of determine how strong UI Goku is compared to Gogeta. I hope some thought goes into this question.

He wouldn't push him as far as Broly did, but it's hard to pinpoint where that is because we don't know exactly how much power Gogeta used. He dominated Broly, and he conceivably could have not been using his full-power. All of the supplementary material explicitly recognizes Broly as the strongest they have ever faced.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So far, Brolyès Full-Power state seems to be about 10 times stronger than his SS Ikari form, which was 50 times stronger than SSB, based on how his Great Ape power has worked so far.

I don't think he powered up again afterwards, so his Full-Power form might've been equivalent to SSG in terms of boost from his Ikari form. Basically, SSB multiplied by a factor of SSG.

[dragon boss z]

Both the director of the movie and Toriyama said it follows the anime.

Source? And like I said, it is a continuation of the anime to a degree, but it is also a continuation of the manga to a degree. It doesn't seem to follow either 100%.

Even Shenron only granting one wish is a reference to Epsoide 68 and Bulma even says the dragon will be back in four months.

It was revealed in the movie Bulma has been making secret wishes, and it's not like the events in ep 68 couldn't have happened in the manga/movie continuity.

His incomplete UI only allows him to dodge, not boost his power. Even then, he still got tagged. So none of the gods are really above each other if we used the manga.

It seemed to imply Beerus, Quitela, and Belmond were the strongest, as Beerus and Quitela were the last standing, and Belmod faked his loss and was the only one who didn't need to be healed.

In the anime, we just know one god in particular is above Beerus according to Whis, who seems to be Belmond who Jiren is stronger than.

He lost to that GoD in an arm wrestle, and in the manga it was stated to be Quitela, so that's probably who it was supposed to be in the anime as well, but even if it was Belmond, he was one of the top tiers imo anyways.

Well, director says this continues the anime and the fact is Jiren fought stronger forms and power-ups compared to Broly. He also fought more Blue level people at once compared to Broly with only 17 doing anything because he used a sneak attack.

I agree feat wise Jiren did better than Broly against SSB level fighters, but Broly did power up after that so it's hard to say. As of now I think Jiren would probably win, even if it's just because he can actually keep his sense of self and intelligence while fighting.

And again, the director says it continues the anime, so using the anime scaling makes more sense than using the manga. That and the director worked on the anime, not the manga.

Obviously the director who works for Toei animation would be someone who worked on the anime, not the manga. That didn't stop them from making BoG and RoF continuations of the manga, but then make Super which followed kai.
When they make movies they seem to just cut out all filler to get closer to Toriyama's vision.

It doesn't follow either continuity, and not more of one than the other. It doesn't use MSSB or SSBKK/SSBE.

That's what I was saying. It kind of is just a sequel to DBS in general. The only version it doesn't contradict are the BoG and RoF movies. What I said was that scaling wise it is closer to the manga, as while it doesn't use MSSB, there is far less of a power jump in the manga. Really MSSB was just blue but not letting ki leak, so basically it's just regular SSB, while SSBKKx20 is 20x SSB.

[PFM18]

That's what I was saying. It kind of is just a sequel to DBS in general. The only version it doesn't contradict are the BoG and RoF movies. What I said was that scaling wise it is closer to the manga, as while it doesn't use MSSB, there is far less of a power jump in the manga. Really MSSB was just blue but not letting ki leak, so basically it's just regular SSB, while SSBKKx20 is 20x SSB.

To conclude it follows the manga more because there's "less of a power jump" is entirely arbitrary. You don't really have much of a way of actually quantifying that to be true. If anything, the jump in forms is bigger in the manga because Goku told Toppo that SSG was on a completely different level from his other forms, and in the anime post-ritual SSG is clearly a fairly modest boost over SSJ3. Also, MSSB is superior in power to normal SSB, otherwise Goku would have never been able to fight Merged Zamasu as a MSSB. He got wrecked as a normal SSB, and then was doing alright against Merged Zamasu as a MSSB.

[HeroR]

Both the director of the movie and Toriyama said it follows the anime. Even Shenron only granting one wish is a reference to Epsoide 68 and Bulma even says the dragon will be back in four months.

His incomplete UI only allows him to dodge, not boost his power. Even then, he still got tagged. So none of the gods are really above each other if we used the manga. In the anime, we just know one god in particular is above Beerus according to Whis, who seems to be Belmond who Jiren is stronger than.

Well, director says this continues the anime and the fact is Jiren fought stronger forms and power-ups compared to Broly. He also fought more Blue level people at once compared to Broly with only 17 doing anything because he used a sneak attack.

And again, the director says it continues the anime, so using the anime scaling makes more sense than using the manga. That and the director worked on the anime, not the manga.

Toriyama didn't say it takes place after the anime continuity. He was just commenting that it takes place after the ToP. I don't recall the director saying that, you're going to have to actually provide a source.

Quite simply, if it was in the anime's continuity, Vegeta would have used SSBE and Goku would have used SSBKK.

The Broly movie seems to follow more of the manga or movie continuity than the anime's, though it might not be trying to be following any of them specifically.
The biggest reason for this is Goku and Vegeta only use SSB, no kaoken or SSBE, which would make it more like the manga, but they don't use mastered SSB either, so that makes it more like movies, which are really the only continuity where regular SSB is still their strongest regular form.
Supporting evidence is Tarble is mentioned, and he is only mentioned in the BoG movie, not Super. Kid Vegeta's hare is like how it was in BoG, not the anime or Super manga. They are using first form Frieza's original manga colors.

This movie as of now is a continuation of all 3 versions though, unless they do a retelling arc it may stay that way, and the manga already skipped this arc, so that basically confirms this fits in with the manga.

It doesn't follow either continuity, and not more of one than the other. It doesn't use MSSB or SSBKK/SSBE.

Just out of curiosity, how far do you guys think Jiren would be able to push post TOP Gogeta? Given how UI Goku dominated him, even at full power? how you answer would kind of determine how strong UI Goku is compared to Gogeta. I hope some thought goes into this question.

He wouldn't push him as far as Broly did, but it's hard to pinpoint where that is because we don't know exactly how much power Gogeta used. He dominated Broly, and he conceivably could have not been using his full-power. All of the supplementary material explicitly recognizes Broly as the strongest they have ever faced.

This is Toriyama's comment:

COMMENTS FROM AKIRA TORIYAMA
The Dragon Ball Super movie this time will be the next story in the series currently airing on TV. It will be an episode after catching our breath from the climax of the Tournament of Power with the universe’s existence on the line; with content that will give a little better understanding about Freeza and the Saiyans, which I hadn’t properly depicted up till now; and leading to a mighty foe saved for the occasion, which I think has it shaping up to be a really enjoyable story.
As with 2013’s Battle of Gods and the last outing Resurrection ‘F’, I’ve written the story myself, and I’ve had the privilege of drawing lots of design illustrations as well. The fact is, while I’m just as busy as ever, as long as I’m not doing a serial, I have plenty of free time to think about the animated version, which I was completely hands-off about before. (laughs) So please look forward to it!
Now then, the animated version on TV will be ending for the time being, but the very popular Dragon Ball Super comic drawn by Toyotaro (on sale now up through volume 5!) will keep on going as-is. I think there will also be story developments different from the TV show and the movie, so please look forward to that as well. I will be, too!

Also this from form Tatsuya Nagamine:

On the usual suspects: Goku is already pretty close to being a god, and Vegeta is desperately trying to catch up. This time Freeza shows particular growth. He wants to be on top, but is pondering how he can with Beerus and co. around. Is his ambition to defeat the Omni-King?!

This plot line is specific to the anime.

And again, Shenron only granted one wish in the movie and Bulma said the dragon would be back in 4 months, which lines up with the anime since Shenron would have exactly one wish left after 68.

Both the director of the movie and Toriyama said it follows the anime.

Source? And like I said, it is a continuation of the anime to a degree, but it is also a continuation of the manga to a degree. It doesn't seem to follow either 100%.

Even Shenron only granting one wish is a reference to Epsoide 68 and Bulma even says the dragon will be back in four months.

It was revealed in the movie Bulma has been making secret wishes, and it's not like the events in ep 68 couldn't have happened in the manga/movie continuity.

His incomplete UI only allows him to dodge, not boost his power. Even then, he still got tagged. So none of the gods are really above each other if we used the manga.

It seemed to imply Beerus, Quitela, and Belmond were the strongest, as Beerus and Quitela were the last standing, and Belmod faked his loss and was the only one who didn't need to be healed.

In the anime, we just know one god in particular is above Beerus according to Whis, who seems to be Belmond who Jiren is stronger than.

He lost to that GoD in an arm wrestle, and in the manga it was stated to be Quitela, so that's probably who it was supposed to be in the anime as well, but even if it was Belmond, he was one of the top tiers imo anyways.

Well, director says this continues the anime and the fact is Jiren fought stronger forms and power-ups compared to Broly. He also fought more Blue level people at once compared to Broly with only 17 doing anything because he used a sneak attack.

I agree feat wise Jiren did better than Broly against SSB level fighters, but Broly did power up after that so it's hard to say. As of now I think Jiren would probably win, even if it's just because he can actually keep his sense of self and intelligence while fighting.

And again, the director says it continues the anime, so using the anime scaling makes more sense than using the manga. That and the director worked on the anime, not the manga.

Obviously the director who works for Toei animation would be someone who worked on the anime, not the manga. That didn't stop them from making BoG and RoF continuations of the manga, but then make Super which followed kai.
When they make movies they seem to just cut out all filler to get closer to Toriyama's vision.

It doesn't follow either continuity, and not more of one than the other. It doesn't use MSSB or SSBKK/SSBE.

That's what I was saying. It kind of is just a sequel to DBS in general. The only version it doesn't contradict are the BoG and RoF movies. What I said was that scaling wise it is closer to the manga, as while it doesn't use MSSB, there is far less of a power jump in the manga. Really MSSB was just blue but not letting ki leak, so basically it's just regular SSB, while SSBKKx20 is 20x SSB.

Source is above me addressed to another poster.

Which again proves that it's in the anime. That and Bulma couldn't have just been making a bunch of secret wishes since everyone knows when Shenron is summoned. So Shenron having one wished matched the anime. Especially the manga where Shenron is never summoned against after Resurrection 'F'.

In a battle royal, the strongest doesn't always necessary win since you can be jumped from all angles. Especially in an out all fight where everyone is about equal.

That's Beerus's statement, not Whis and Beerus is known to be full of it while Whis for for the most part has a more flawless record. And Whis had no reason to lie or troll at that moment since that scene was played serious. And the manga isn't the anime and vice verse since the anime made it clear arm wrestling match god = mortal stronger than a God of Destruction.

So did Jiren who went from being bodied by UI Goku to matching him. So they both did the same thing.

Resurrection 'F' doesn't have a manga version. The only thing it has is a movie promo version that isn't even complete and doesn't completely go with Super manga since Toyo overlaid Super Saiyan God Goku over base form Goku, implying that base form Goku = Super Saiyan God, yet he can used Super Saiyan God as a normal form in the manga. Super also doesn't follow Kai, since Buu Kai still had the Hell filler from Z that doesn't match Super, one of the bank robbers in the Saiyaman storyline in Super came from the manga not the anime, and Pikkon is in the end of original Kai, but never comes to mind when Goku is trying to decide who will replaced Buu.

[Marlowe89]

*snip*

Good lord.

You're reaching so hard you could touch Jupiter. You're stretching so much you put Stretch Armstrong to shame. I'm not convinced that you sincerely believe what you're posting, but these rank among some of the most absurd mental gymnastics I've read in quite some time. I'm almost impressed.

Let's briefly examine these for a moment:

1. Toriyama's quote just mentions that the movie is the next story in a series that was airing on TV at the time, but you somehow twist it into a statement about continuity. Toriyama said nothing about continuity.

2. Nagamine's quote just mentions that Freeza wants to be on top, which is actually teasing his goal in the movie and doesn't even necessarily refer to the "plotline" (wasn't actually a plotline, but whatever) in the anime, but you somehow twist it into a statement about continuity. Nagamine said nothing about continuity.

3. The connection you're trying to force between Shenron's wish in the film and a filler episode in the anime is completely circumstantial at best. Nothing here directly refers to the anime.

Gotta level with you here: I think you're being ridiculous. This reminds me of back when people were trying to force Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F' into the same continuity as GT, ignoring the multiple conflicts between them to instead use flimsy "evidence" to try and reconcile them into the same timeline. Nah, man. This isn't going to work. Nobody actively paying attention to the movie and anime is ever going to put them on the same exact branch, and for good reason.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Honestly, I'd rather just follow from anime to movie because it's the easiest way of looking at the whole situation.

The last major story arc for the DBS story was the anime's Tournament of Power, so the next major story arc is the movie.

In all likelihood, Toriyama doesn't care what toes he steps on with regards to consistency with the established main continuities. However, when it comes to seriously scaling things, we can't really just stick to the movie alone; it's unfeasible, complicated, and really unnecessary when we have a perfectly good direct story continuation to use until we get clarification later on.

SSB = SSB, SSG = SSG, and SS = SS. Nice, easy, to the point.