DBZ is still DB

[ABED]

I do think if you were to separate the series, Goku winning the 23rd tournament makes the most sense. All the story threads had been tied up. However, that doesn't make it a separate and distinct series.

It's more akin to going from Sailor Moon to Sailor Moon R, as opposed to going from DBZ to DBS.

Never seen Sailor Moon.

[KBABZ]

I do think if you were to separate the series, Goku winning the 23rd tournament makes the most sense. All the story threads had been tied up. However, that doesn't make it a separate and distinct series.

It's more akin to going from Sailor Moon to Sailor Moon R, as opposed to going from DBZ to DBS.

Never seen Sailor Moon.

Like Dragon Ball, it too is adapted from a popular manga. Unlike Dragon Ball, however, each arc is given its own anime "name":

• Sailor Moon: Dark Kingdom Arc
• Sailor Moon R: Makaiju Arc (filler) & Black Moon Arc
• Sailor Moon S: Mugen Arc
• Sailor Moon SuperS: Yume Arc
• Sailor Moon Sailor Stars: Stars Arc (done GoT style where the anime finished before the manga)

So like Dragon Ball, it's all one continuous story that is split up over several "shows" that happen to share almost all the same production team. Ego, Sailor Moon fans don't treat each show as its own thing, it's just all "Sailor Moon" to them, with "Sailor Moon Classic" often being used to denote the original arc show.

If you were to make classic Dragon Ball fit this "new anime name per arc" approach, it could be something like this:

• Dragon Ball: Pilaf & Tournament Arcs
• Dragon Ball World: Red Ribbon & Uranai Baba Arcs
• Dragon Ball Challenger: Solo Training, Tenshinhan & Daimao Arcs
• Dragon Ball EX: Heavenly Training & Majunior Arcs
• Dragon Ball Z: Wedding Dress & Saiyan Arcs
• Dragon Ball Galactic: Namek & Frieza Arcs
• Dragon Ball Future: Garlic Jr., Android & Cell Arcs
• Dragon Ball Mystic: Afterlife Tournament, Great Saiyaman & Buu Arcs

[saiyanhajime]

If you were to make classic Dragon Ball fit this "new anime name per arc" approach, it could be something like this:

• Dragon Ball: Pilaf & Tournament Arcs
• Dragon Ball World: Red Ribbon & Uranai Baba Arcs
• Dragon Ball Challenger: Solo Training, Tenshinhan & Daimao Arcs
• Dragon Ball EX: Heavenly Training & Majunior Arcs
• Dragon Ball Z: Wedding Dress & Saiyan Arcs
• Dragon Ball Galactic: Namek & Frieza Arcs
• Dragon Ball Future: Garlic Jr., Android & Cell Arcs
• Dragon Ball Mystic: Afterlife Tournament, Great Saiyaman & Buu Arcs

This is cool and I want it!


But yeah as others have said, it was presented and always has been presented that way in the West. It blew my mind back when I first found out that there was no gap in the original release. It's kind of amazing how much power that has in forming a mindset.

I tend to refer to it all generically as "DBZ" actually. It just rolls off the tongue and fingers too well. Old habits die hard! From my initial exposure it was all I knew for so many years, and those years were around the same time I was getting to grips with the internet. Ha, just the other day I referred to the movie as DBZ Broly on Twitter by mistake.

[KBABZ]

This is cool and I want it!

But yeah as others have said, it was presented and always has been presented that way in the West. It blew my mind back when I first found out that there was no gap in the original release. It's kind of amazing how much power that has in forming a mindset.

I think it would have gone a long way to dispelling the myth that there was a big ol' seam creatively between the two, although I do think that the lack of prominence of the original work has something to do with that as well. Many people today still believe that the Pokemon anime came first, not R/G/B/Y, and as a kid I certainly was not aware of the manga at all.

I tend to refer to it all generically as "DBZ" actually. It just rolls off the tongue and fingers too well. Old habits die hard! From my initial exposure it was all I knew for so many years, and those years were around the same time I was getting to grips with the internet. Ha, just the other day I referred to the movie as DBZ Broly on Twitter by mistake.

I do that as well. DBZ for me is a handy moniker to quickly refer to all of the action-heavy, arc villain-focused stories that this part of the series is known for. To the point where OG-DB, with its focus on travel, adventure, discovery, being a kid and of course Dragon Ball hunts in various exotic locations, has fallen almost completely by the wayside. It isn't correct as such; as established the series evolved into the tropes and stylings of DBZ, but the name has a few uses as well even in the face of Super.

Spoiler:

Dragon Ball World of course refers to the very geographically-diverse adventure that Goku goes on for that part of the story. I picked Dragon Ball Challenger for the next one because I felt that fit the idea of both Tenshinhan and the return of Piccolo Daimao. Dragon Ball EX is probably the one I'm least happy with as I chose it mainly for EX to represent Extreme; perhaps Dragon Ball Gods would have fit this better given the presence of Kami in this arc, and it feels less edgy. Dragon Ball Z I of course kept, but to fit with the Sailor Moon theme I didn't use it for the latter ones. Dragon Ball Galactic of course refers to the inter-planetary journey it took to get to Namek, and Dragon Ball Future refers to the whole point being to prevent Trunks' dystopian future. Dragon Ball Mystic I used for the final arc because of the emphasis on magic and spirituality due to the presence of the Kais, and Buu himself being heavily influenced by genies.

I often bundled the filler arcs in to reflect how Sailor Moon R actually started with a filler arc to give the anime more time before Naoko Takeuchi finished the second arc of the manga. So that's why, for example, Dragon Ball Z starts with the Wedding Dress arc in my hypothetical scenario.

If I were to do GT, I'd probably go with Dragon Ball GT (Black Star + Baby) and Dragon Ball Titans (to refer to Titanium in Super Android 18 and the Shadow Dragons). Super meanwhile might have Dragon Ball Super (for the two movie arcs), Dragon Ball Universe (for the Champa Arc), Dragon Ball Shadows (for the Future Trunks arc) and Dragon Ball Survival (for the Future Trunks arc).

[Zephyr]

Few days late on the reply. Apologies.

The focus has always been on martial artists doing fantasy martial arts against other martial artists. Sometimes there are more and different sci-fi things going on in the background, or as window dressing, or as a vehicle to deliver more fantasy martial arts, but it's never not fully enveloped in fantasy. Every ki blast, every flaring aura, and just about every instance of flight, are 100% pure fantasy 100% of the time.

That's only part of the genre though. Once the Saiyajin arc begins, the shift into Science Fiction begins with it. Yes, the martial arts aspect is still central to the series, but the plots are now mostly Sci-Fi genre. This was not the case before the Z-era, where the story was mostly martial arts/fantasy/horror/etc. genres.

See, what's confusing me here is that you say the martial arts stuff is "only part of the genre", yet also, in the same post, say that "the plots are now mostly Sci-Fi". That seems backwards, at best.

After comedy, martial arts is Dragon Ball's core genre. The story is about martial artists. The thrust of the drama is often about how the martial artists are going to defeat their rivals, or revive their comrades. Oftentimes, bad things happen, and the plot is moved along, because the martial artists are so focused on being martial artists, over anything and everything else.

This never changes. When an alien comes to Earth and says that the protagonist is one of his people, it changes nothing I wrote in the preceding paragraph; the story is still about how he going to defeat them, and if he is going to arrive in time to prevent his comrades from being slain; and when Goku wrestles with the nature of his heritage, it's not because his kin are extra-terrestrial, it's because his kin are evil barbarians. When the protagonist and his friends travel to another planet, it changes nothing; the story is still about them defeating an evil warlord in mortal combat so that magical orbs can be used to revive their slain comrades. When artificial beings are sicced on the world out of spite for the protagonist, it changes nothing; it's still about vengeance, Trunks acquiring the strength to save his own world, the collective mastery of a technique, and the passing of the torch. In every single story arc after Piccolo, it is still overwhelmingly about martial artists performing martial arts with and against other martial artists, and about the martial artists doing things that will facilitate more of that. That might be "part" of Dragon Ball's entire "genre", but it's a gigantic "part".

The Sci-Fi, again, has always been there. And when it supposedly "increases" with "Z", it never comes close to overtaking, let alone equaling, the martial arts focus. It doesn't even try. As ABED was getting at, actual Sci-Fi stories are in large part about asking philosophical questions; specifically, they showcase new feats of technology that force us to reevaluate assumptions or common sense notions of what we are, who we are, and what is morally permissible. Dragon Ball shows us capsule technology early on, but it never dwells on the implications of such technology existing, on if humans should have that kind of power. It shows us space travel and aliens, but it never really causes us to take a step back and re-evaluate our place in the universe; the Dragon World was already absurdly weird; beings on a different world existing seems par the course. It shows artificial intelligence and the like, but it never makes us question the nature of consciousness.

You could maybe make the point that it kind of makes us ask about the implications of time travel, and that with Trunks, Kurilin, and #18, it occasionally asks us to consider the nature of personhood. So, in the Cell arc, I guess, it gets a little Sci-Fi. But even then, it's still an ant in comparison to the actual martial arts thrust of the actual story of that arc. But the larger point is that, more often than not, and overwhelmingly so, the "Sci-Fi" elements are merely decorations; the story is, 99% of the time, never about those elements.

From a change in editor, to a broad refocusing of plot threads, you can make something of a case for thinking of Pre-Raditz and Post-Piccolo DB as marginally different beasts. Genre change, be it "from comedy to drama" or "from fantasy to Sci-Fi", does not factor, at all, into making such a case.

[KBABZ]

The Sci-Fi, again, has always been there. And when it supposedly "increases" with "Z", it never comes close to overtaking, let alone equaling, the martial arts focus. It doesn't even try. As ABED was getting at, actual Sci-Fi stories are in large part about asking philosophical questions; specifically, they showcase new feats of technology that force us to reevaluate assumptions or common sense notions of what we are, who we are, and what is morally permissible. Dragon Ball shows us capsule technology early on, but it never dwells on the implications of such technology existing, on if humans should have that kind of power. It shows us space travel and aliens, but it never really causes us to take a step back and re-evaluate our place in the universe; the Dragon World was already absurdly weird; beings on a different world existing seems par the course. It shows artificial intelligence and the like, but it never makes us question the nature of consciousness.

Agreed. The only time science fiction is really at the fore is with the Saiyan, Namek and Android arcs, but only as a supplement to the existing trajectory and themes Dragon Ball already uses. Scouters for example are Dragon Ball's most famous piece of technology, but guess what they're in service to? That's right, the martial arts in judging someone's Battle Power. The use of blasters by some of the mooks is only for a scant few scenes because the characters worth talking about all use ki attacks instead. Traveling to space is really no different to flying to the Land of Korin on the Nimbus (we're moving to a new setting in both), and Vegeta and Nappa arriving isn't far removed from Krillin arriving on a boat or Tenshinhan just walking up to the Tenkaichi Budokai. Heck the spaceship they DO use to travel there is Namekian, which by design and lore is heavily steeped in mystical undertones.

The Androids too are very sci-fi, but once again only in service to the plot; it makes Vegeta question if he's limited by biology for a single scene, but that's literally it. Cell is classified as an Android as well (although IMO he's more a genetic experiment) and as per usual it's in service to classic martial arts kicking, punching and ki-flinging. Trunks' time travel is yet another example that once again can be boiled down to being the reason why Trunks knows the Androids are coming: it allows him to hype up the next villains in just the same way as Raditz boasting about Vegeta and Nappa.

Anyone thinking Dragon Ball wasn't filled with Science Fiction until Z wasn't paying enough attention to the early part of the story. We've got Capsules, fictional planes, self-sustaining hemispherical houses, Battle Jackets and more, all within just the first thirteen-episode arc.

[ruler9871]

The Sci-Fi, again, has always been there. And when it supposedly "increases" with "Z", it never comes close to overtaking, let alone equaling, the martial arts focus. It doesn't even try. As ABED was getting at, actual Sci-Fi stories are in large part about asking philosophical questions; specifically, they showcase new feats of technology that force us to reevaluate assumptions or common sense notions of what we are, who we are, and what is morally permissible. Dragon Ball shows us capsule technology early on, but it never dwells on the implications of such technology existing, on if humans should have that kind of power. It shows us space travel and aliens, but it never really causes us to take a step back and re-evaluate our place in the universe; the Dragon World was already absurdly weird; beings on a different world existing seems par the course. It shows artificial intelligence and the like, but it never makes us question the nature of consciousness.

Agreed. The only time science fiction is really at the fore is with the Saiyan, Namek and Android arcs, but only as a supplement to the existing trajectory and themes Dragon Ball already uses. Scouters for example are Dragon Ball's most famous piece of technology, but guess what they're in service to? That's right, the martial arts in judging someone's Battle Power. The use of blasters by some of the mooks is only for a scant few scenes because the characters worth talking about all use ki attacks instead. Traveling to space is really no different to flying to the Land of Korin on the Nimbus (we're moving to a new setting in both), and Vegeta and Nappa arriving isn't far removed from Krillin arriving on a boat or Tenshinhan just walking up to the Tenkaichi Budokai. Heck the spaceship they DO use to travel there is Namekian, which by design and lore is heavily steeped in mystical undertones.

The Androids too are very sci-fi, but once again only in service to the plot; it makes Vegeta question if he's limited by biology for a single scene, but that's literally it. Cell is classified as an Android as well (although IMO he's more a genetic experiment) and as per usual it's in service to classic martial arts kicking, punching and ki-flinging. Trunks' time travel is yet another example that once again can be boiled down to being the reason why Trunks knows the Androids are coming: it allows him to hype up the next villains in just the same way as Raditz boasting about Vegeta and Nappa.

Anyone thinking Dragon Ball wasn't filled with Science Fiction until Z wasn't paying enough attention to the early part of the story. We've got Capsules, fictional planes, self-sustaining hemispherical houses, Battle Jackets and more, all within just the first thirteen-episode arc.

This.

So many Western fans keep overblowing the differences between DB and DBZ, while the Eastern fans treat it how they essentially are: 2 parts of the same story.