Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Well the same concept applies to Gotenks. Base Gotenks>SSJ Trunks/SSJ Goten

Nothing to do with a perfect fusion. If the fusion isn't perfect, then you won't fuse. It's a prerequisite to have the fusion in the first place.

Wouldn't work. A lot of things say that Gotenks isn't impressive until he reaches SS3.

Hell, Daizenshuu says he's weaker than Vegeta before the RoSaT and Kuririn implies twice that Boo is stronger than SS Gotenks in the RoF arc.

Gotenks in Base is stronger than the SSJs of his fusees. All indications show that to he true. How he compares to Vegeta is irrelevant. And Gotenks obviously isn't competing with Super Buu until he hits SSJ3, but that doesnt mean his Base cant be stronger than the SSJ of his fusions.

Honestly, I think putting base Fusion as exactly equal to the highest potential shared form of the fusees works better.

This is part of why Kibitoshin sucked. They didn't have any further levels to climb, so they got a relatively minimalist boost in comparison in addition to just not being very complimentary fusees.

[Hugo Boss]

I think I have already said it, but I don’t understand why the fusion multiplier has to be something more complicated than “way way above x and y together”. Adding conditions like “10 years later Goku has a stronger form, so the multiplier of the regular form will be affected by it” doesn’t sound reasonable. For me, any possible contradiction that might happen shouldn’t change this simple notion. In the Metamoran fusion, they even have to match their partner’s powerlevel in order to a person with a minimal experience with the technique to guess how strong the new being can get.

[ruler9871]

Well the same concept applies to Gotenks. Base Gotenks>SSJ Trunks/SSJ Goten

Nothing to do with a perfect fusion. If the fusion isn't perfect, then you won't fuse. It's a prerequisite to have the fusion in the first place.

Wouldn't work. A lot of things say that Gotenks isn't impressive until he reaches SS3.

Hell, Daizenshuu says he's weaker than Vegeta before the RoSaT and Kuririn implies twice that Boo is stronger than SS Gotenks in the RoF arc.

Where did it say that? Do you have a source for that?

There is no way Buu arc Vegeta was stronger than any version of Gotenks except Base. Even before going in the ROSAT, SSJ1 Gotenks was already comparable to Buu arc SSJ3 Goku, since it was stated by both Piccolo and Goku that SSJ1 Gotenks could easily kill Fat Buu, While Goku at the time could only do this in SSJ3.

[ruler9871]

From what I understand, Metamorian Fusion is simply A x B, while Potara Fusion is (A x B) x rival boost, hence why Potara is superior.

[PFM18]

From what I understand, Metamorian Fusion is simply A x B, while Potara Fusion is (A x B) x rival boost, hence why Potara is superior.

Neither of those make any mathematical sense. It depends on multiplying arbitrary values that have no basis for standardization. That's why Vados's (A+B)*C where C is some "tens of times" works much better. And recently they had that material that clarified that potara isn't superior.

Well the same concept applies to Gotenks. Base Gotenks>SSJ Trunks/SSJ Goten

Nothing to do with a perfect fusion. If the fusion isn't perfect, then you won't fuse. It's a prerequisite to have the fusion in the first place.

Wouldn't work. A lot of things say that Gotenks isn't impressive until he reaches SS3.

Hell, Daizenshuu says he's weaker than Vegeta before the RoSaT and Kuririn implies twice that Boo is stronger than SS Gotenks in the RoF arc.

Where did it say that? Do you have a source for that?

There is no way Buu arc Vegeta was stronger than any version of Gotenks except Base. Even before going in the ROSAT, SSJ1 Gotenks was already comparable to Buu arc SSJ3 Goku, since it was stated by both Piccolo and Goku that SSJ1 Gotenks could easily kill Fat Buu, While Goku at the time could only do this in SSJ3.

This. I agree completely. Vegeta was nothing to SSJ Gotenks, although probably stronger than Base Gotenks.

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the Daizenshuu saying Majin Vegeta>Base Gotenks or something like that. Either way, it wasn't at all relevant to what we were talking about.

[Hugo Boss]

Daizenshuu saying Majin Vegeta>Base Gotenks or something like that.

Those qualifiers aren’t present.

The two entered the Room of Spirit and Time, and hurriedly trained as Gotenks. As a result, Gotenks leveled up so much that his strength surpassed Vegeta and the others.

I guess Goku could have grossly overstimated the effects of fusion.

[cantwaitanymore]

Daizenshuu saying Majin Vegeta>Base Gotenks or something like that.

Those qualifiers aren’t present.

The two entered the Room of Spirit and Time, and hurriedly trained as Gotenks. As a result, Gotenks leveled up so much that his strength surpassed Vegeta and the others.

I guess Goku could have grossly overstimated the effects of fusion.

SSJ Gotenks pre Rosat > SSJ3 GOKU, stated, Base Gotenks after 1hour outside = 15 days inside Rosat got stronger than his SSJ. So if you people are discussing his strength at least read the DBZ manga first. That power up clearly shows that Fusion is a multiplication, just like SEG states, as its impossible for each of them indivudally to get more than 50x stronger in 15 days. This movie also clearly proves that Base Gogeta is stronger than Perfected Blue Goku showing how insane the multiplier is.

Base Gotenks(post Rosat)>SSJ Gotenks (pre Rosat)> SSJ3 Goku, stated in the manga.

[PFM18]

Daizenshuu saying Majin Vegeta>Base Gotenks or something like that.

Those qualifiers aren’t present.

The two entered the Room of Spirit and Time, and hurriedly trained as Gotenks. As a result, Gotenks leveled up so much that his strength surpassed Vegeta and the others.

I guess Goku could have grossly overstimated the effects of fusion.

SSJ Gotenks pre Rosat > SSJ3 GOKU, stated, Base Gotenks after 1hour outside = 15 days inside Rosat got stronger than his SSJ. So if you people are discussing his strength at least read the DBZ manga first. That power up clearly shows that Fusion is a multiplication, just like SEG states, as its impossible for each of them indivudally to get more than 50x stronger in 15 days.

Base Gotenks(post Rosat)>SSJ Gotenks (pre Rosat)> SSJ3 Goku, stated in the manga.

How is any of this relevant to whether or not Base Gotenks>SSJ Trunks/Goten?

[cantwaitanymore]

Those qualifiers aren’t present.



I guess Goku could have grossly overstimated the effects of fusion.

SSJ Gotenks pre Rosat > SSJ3 GOKU, stated, Base Gotenks after 1hour outside = 15 days inside Rosat got stronger than his SSJ. So if you people are discussing his strength at least read the DBZ manga first. That power up clearly shows that Fusion is a multiplication, just like SEG states, as its impossible for each of them indivudally to get more than 50x stronger in 15 days.

Base Gotenks(post Rosat)>SSJ Gotenks (pre Rosat)> SSJ3 Goku, stated in the manga.

How is any of this relevant to whether or not Base Gotenks>SSJ Trunks/Goten?

They are talking about Gotenks being weaker than Vegita.
Who tf cares about Base Gotenks > SSJ Trunks? I have told you already that the theory of that strongest form is bullshit as their base got more than 50x stronger and its impossible that their strongest form got 50x stronger each. Stop with the meaningless stuff.

[PFM18]

SSJ Gotenks pre Rosat > SSJ3 GOKU, stated, Base Gotenks after 1hour outside = 15 days inside Rosat got stronger than his SSJ. So if you people are discussing his strength at least read the DBZ manga first. That power up clearly shows that Fusion is a multiplication, just like SEG states, as its impossible for each of them indivudally to get more than 50x stronger in 15 days.

Base Gotenks(post Rosat)>SSJ Gotenks (pre Rosat)> SSJ3 Goku, stated in the manga.

How is any of this relevant to whether or not Base Gotenks>SSJ Trunks/Goten?

They are talking about Gotenks being weaker than Vegita.
Who tf cares about Base Gotenks > SSJ Trunks? I have told you already that the theory of that strongest form is bullshit as their base got more than 50x stronger and its impossible that their strongest form got 50x stronger each. Stop with the meaningless stuff.

That was the original conversation. I brought up Base Gotenks>SSJ Trunks, and your rebuttal was something about SSJ3 Goku as though that was relevant. Point is, that was what was disputed. And no, the premise that Base fusion>SSJ fusee has never had any exceptions to it. Not sure what you are even saying, but you certainly have not shown that this premise is bullshit.

[cantwaitanymore]

How is any of this relevant to whether or not Base Gotenks>SSJ Trunks/Goten?

They are talking about Gotenks being weaker than Vegita.
Who tf cares about Base Gotenks > SSJ Trunks? I have told you already that the theory of that strongest form is bullshit as their base got more than 50x stronger and its impossible that their strongest form got 50x stronger each. Stop with the meaningless stuff.

That was the original conversation. I brought up Base Gotenks>SSJ Trunks, and your rebuttal was something about SSJ3 Goku as though that was relevant. Point is, that was what was disputed. And no, the premise that Base fusion>SSJ fusee has never had any exceptions to it. Not sure what you are even saying, but you certainly have not shown that this premise is bullshit.

Of course base Gotenks is stronger than SSJ Trunks or Gotenk, he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku, now unless you think SSJ Trunks > SSJ3 Goku, the answer is pretty obvious. Why are we even talking about this stupid stuff like Base>SSJ, like of course it is. Base Gogeta certainly is stronger than SSJ Goku if you want to go that route.....

[PFM18]

They are talking about Gotenks being weaker than Vegita.
Who tf cares about Base Gotenks > SSJ Trunks? I have told you already that the theory of that strongest form is bullshit as their base got more than 50x stronger and its impossible that their strongest form got 50x stronger each. Stop with the meaningless stuff.

That was the original conversation. I brought up Base Gotenks>SSJ Trunks, and your rebuttal was something about SSJ3 Goku as though that was relevant. Point is, that was what was disputed. And no, the premise that Base fusion>SSJ fusee has never had any exceptions to it. Not sure what you are even saying, but you certainly have not shown that this premise is bullshit.

Of course base Gotenks is stronger than SSJ Trunks or Gotenk, he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku, now unless you think SSJ Trunks > SSJ3 Goku, the answer is pretty obvious. Why are we even talking about this stupid stuff like Base>SSJ, like of course it is. Base Gogeta certainly is stronger than SSJ Goku if you want to go that route.....

We are talking about it because you disputed it when I said it!

[cantwaitanymore]

That was the original conversation. I brought up Base Gotenks>SSJ Trunks, and your rebuttal was something about SSJ3 Goku as though that was relevant. Point is, that was what was disputed. And no, the premise that Base fusion>SSJ fusee has never had any exceptions to it. Not sure what you are even saying, but you certainly have not shown that this premise is bullshit.

Of course base Gotenks is stronger than SSJ Trunks or Gotenk, he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku, now unless you think SSJ Trunks > SSJ3 Goku, the answer is pretty obvious. Why are we even talking about this stupid stuff like Base>SSJ, like of course it is. Base Gogeta certainly is stronger than SSJ Goku if you want to go that route.....

We are talking about it because you disputed it when I said it!

Nope, you misunderstood me.
I am disputing the theory that Base Fusion = (Strongest Form X + Strongest Form Y) x tens of times.
I am saying that that particular formula is impossible for the 3 following reasons:
1. Base Gotenks got stronger than his SSJ previously, after 15 days. That would mean that Trunks and Gotens strongest form would each have to get more than 50x stronger which is impossible.
2. PSSB Goku = Fused Zamasu ( Super Saiyan Rose). if that formula were to be true. Then Base Fused Zamasu would be tens of times stronger than PSSB Goku and Rose Zamasu would be millions of times stronger than PSSB Goku. They are stated and shown to be equal.
3. SSJ Kefla = Gohan. I dont think this needs much explanation.

So these are all statements, not my opinions, and they clearly show how that formula isnt possible.

[cantwaitanymore]

Wouldn't work. A lot of things say that Gotenks isn't impressive until he reaches SS3.

Hell, Daizenshuu says he's weaker than Vegeta before the RoSaT and Kuririn implies twice that Boo is stronger than SS Gotenks in the RoF arc.

Gotenks in Base is stronger than the SSJs of his fusees. All indications show that to he true. How he compares to Vegeta is irrelevant. And Gotenks obviously isn't competing with Super Buu until he hits SSJ3, but that doesnt mean his Base cant be stronger than the SSJ of his fusions.

Honestly, I think putting base Fusion as exactly equal to the highest potential shared form of the fusees works better.

This is part of why Kibitoshin sucked. They didn't have any further levels to climb, so they got a relatively minimalist boost in comparison in addition to just not being very complimentary fusees.

Kibitoshin got a huge boost, it just sucked in comparison to Boo.
In his own words: ``Such power ha ha ha, unbeliavable. Goku i can fight now, lets go together.`` Stop with the headcanon.

[PFM18]

I am disputing the theory that Base Fusion = (Strongest Form X + Strongest Form Y) x tens of times.

That's not what I said. I just said that the Base form fusion is usually if not always stronger than the max power of the fusees and that Vados's formula makes more sense than the A*B bullshit. \

1. Base Gotenks got stronger than his SSJ previously, after 15 days. That would mean that Trunks and Gotens strongest form would each have to get more than 50x stronger which is impossible.

It would still continue to hold true that Gotenks's Base is stronger than the SSJ of his fusees. That doesn't suddenly change because Goten and Trunks got stronger. And you assume linearity in that example.

2. PSSB Goku = Fused Zamasu ( Super Saiyan Rose). if that formula were to be true. Then Base Fused Zamasu would be tens of times stronger than PSSB Goku and Rose Zamasu would be millions of times stronger than PSSB Goku. They are stated and shown to be equal.
3. SSJ Kefla = Gohan. I dont think this needs much explanation.

Nonsensical manga-only garbage. I was talking about the anime.

[ZombieVito]

Gotenks in Base is stronger than the SSJs of his fusees. All indications show that to he true. How he compares to Vegeta is irrelevant. And Gotenks obviously isn't competing with Super Buu until he hits SSJ3, but that doesnt mean his Base cant be stronger than the SSJ of his fusions.

He can't be stronger in base than the kids as Super Saiyans and then be weaker than SS2 Vegeta and Good Boo as a Super Saiyan.

[PFM18]

Gotenks in Base is stronger than the SSJs of his fusees. All indications show that to he true. How he compares to Vegeta is irrelevant. And Gotenks obviously isn't competing with Super Buu until he hits SSJ3, but that doesnt mean his Base cant be stronger than the SSJ of his fusions.

He can't be stronger in base than the kids as Super Saiyans and then be weaker than SS2 Vegeta and Good Boo as a Super Saiyan.

He isn't weaker than SSJ2 Vegeta and Good Boo as a Super Saiyan.

[cantwaitanymore]

Gotenks in Base is stronger than the SSJs of his fusees. All indications show that to he true. How he compares to Vegeta is irrelevant. And Gotenks obviously isn't competing with Super Buu until he hits SSJ3, but that doesnt mean his Base cant be stronger than the SSJ of his fusions.

He can't be stronger in base than the kids as Super Saiyans and then be weaker than SS2 Vegeta and Good Boo as a Super Saiyan.

He isn't weaker than SSJ2 Vegeta and Good Boo as a Super Saiyan.

Lmao manga only garbage? Well i dont care for your anime only garbage that Toei writes.

You need to learn to read or get some glasses as i clearly said that base Gotenks is stronger than SSJ Goten and Trunks, which i wouldnt have to write again if you could actually read what i said.

But its obvious that you guys have actually no clue what you are talking about. All you do is talk some meanigless stuff out of your head. Looking back this whole thread from 2015 to now is just a laughing stock honestly...

[cantwaitanymore]

Gotenks in Base is stronger than the SSJs of his fusees. All indications show that to he true. How he compares to Vegeta is irrelevant. And Gotenks obviously isn't competing with Super Buu until he hits SSJ3, but that doesnt mean his Base cant be stronger than the SSJ of his fusions.

He can't be stronger in base than the kids as Super Saiyans and then be weaker than SS2 Vegeta and Good Boo as a Super Saiyan.

What the actual hell are you talking about, its Stated That SSJ Gotenks PRE rosat is stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
So he is obviously stronger than SS2 Vegeta. After Rosat in HIS BASE he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku, so obviously he is stronger than kids SSJ forms.

[Hugo Boss]

SSJ Gotenks pre Rosat > SSJ3 GOKU, stated, Base Gotenks after 1hour outside = 15 days inside Rosat got stronger than his SSJ. So if you people are discussing his strength at least read the DBZ manga first. That power up clearly shows that Fusion is a multiplication, just like SEG states, as its impossible for each of them indivudally to get more than 50x stronger in 15 days. This movie also clearly proves that Base Gogeta is stronger than Perfected Blue Goku showing how insane the multiplier is.

Base Gotenks(post Rosat)>SSJ Gotenks (pre Rosat)> SSJ3 Goku, stated in the manga.

There isn’t a DBZ manga, there is a Dragon Ball manga. And none of these statements were actually confirmed.

Goku was trying to convince everyone Super Gotenks could beat Majin Boo, but if you have read the manga as far as the story progress after that point, you will realize Gotenks didn’t quite fit that role, much to the contrary.

What the hell? Base Gotenks stronger than SS Gotenks?! That would mean Goten and Trunks surpassed their Super Saiyan level they had before the training! Again, I’m pretty sure that comes from Trunks, who commonly overstimates Gotenks’ strength. Goten is ironically more on point about their powerlevel. Since Gotenks is surprised about not being able to damage Boo, that outright made Trunks’ comparison a gross miscalculation.