Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[cantwaitanymore]

SSJ Gotenks pre Rosat > SSJ3 GOKU, stated, Base Gotenks after 1hour outside = 15 days inside Rosat got stronger than his SSJ. So if you people are discussing his strength at least read the DBZ manga first. That power up clearly shows that Fusion is a multiplication, just like SEG states, as its impossible for each of them indivudally to get more than 50x stronger in 15 days. This movie also clearly proves that Base Gogeta is stronger than Perfected Blue Goku showing how insane the multiplier is.

Base Gotenks(post Rosat)>SSJ Gotenks (pre Rosat)> SSJ3 Goku, stated in the manga.

There isn’t a DBZ manga, there is a Dragon Ball manga. And none of these statements were actually confirmed.

Goku was trying to convince everyone Super Gotenks could beat Majin Boo, but if you have read the manga as far as the story progress after that point, you will realize Gotenks didn’t quite fit that role, much to the contrary.

What the hell? Base Gotenks stronger than SS Gotenks?! That would mean Goten and Trunks surpassed their Super Saiyan level they had before the training! Again, I’m pretty sure that comes from Trunks, who commonly overstimates Gotenks’ strength. Goten is ironically more on point about their powerlevel. Since Gotenks is surprised about not being able to damage Boo, that outright made Trunks’ comparison a gross miscalculation.

Yes buddy, that what I'm saying all along. Its impossible for them to indivdually have gotten 50x stronger and thats proof that Fusion is a multiplication, just like SEG states and just like this movie shows as Base Gogeta > Perfected SSB Goku

Now here are the statements ( next time read the manga before you debate, i dont care about your opinions):
https://plus.google.com/u/0/11539640788 ... PqaogmCXhR

EDIT: One statement that was missing, that proves piccolo was reffering to base Gotenks vs Super Buu.

Chapter: 490 (DBZ 296), P5.3
Piccolo: “Oh! So he can become a Super Saiyan even after Fusion?!”

[Hugo Boss]

next time read the manga before you debate, i dont care about your opinions

You should follow your own suggestion. It’s very clear you are reading those statements without considering what happened later. Not only Goku lied about not being able to beat Majin Boo, but Gotenks didn’t become what they were expecting.

[cantwaitanymore]

next time read the manga before you debate, i dont care about your opinions

You should follow your own suggestion. It’s very clear you are reading those statements without considering what happened later. Not only Goku lied about not being able to beat Majin Boo, but Gotenks didn’t become what they were expecting.

you took a huge L, who cares what you think when Piccolo, Goten and Trunks state it.

[Hugo Boss]

next time read the manga before you debate, i dont care about your opinions

You should follow your own suggestion. It’s very clear you are reading those statements without considering what happened later. Not only Goku lied about not being able to beat Majin Boo, but Gotenks didn’t become what they were expecting.

you took a huge L, who cares what you think when Piccolo, Goten and Trunks state it.

Trunks and Piccolo simply made an overstatement. That much is very clear, since Base Gotenks didn’t even budge Majin Boo.

[cantwaitanymore]

You should follow your own suggestion. It’s very clear you are reading those statements without considering what happened later. Not only Goku lied about not being able to beat Majin Boo, but Gotenks didn’t become what they were expecting.

you took a huge L, who cares what you think when Piccolo, Goten and Trunks state it.

Trunks and Piccolo simply made an overstatement. That much is very clear, since Base Gotenks didn’t even budge Majin Boo.

What does that have to do with Base Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks pre
pre rosat ssj gotenks has no chance versus super buu, according to piccolo.
we see that after the rosat training, base gotenks is strong enough that he might have a chance versus super buu according to piccolo, and piccolo did not know that gotenks could transform when he said that, so the statement was made about base gotenks

STATEMENTS. Stay salty :*
I actually love how you think that your opinion matters more than statements of 3 characters. LMAO

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

It doesn't matter what Trunks and Piccolo said. They were wrong as demonstrated. Not only were they shown to be wrong, their assessments weren't even close to accurate. So their assessment has nothing to do with ki sensing. Trunks is being an arrogant kid and Piccolo is holding onto a false hope which clouded his judgement.

And pre Rosat Gotenks is nothing compared to Goku and even weaker than Vegeta as directly stated. According to official statements, he isn't even close to SSJ3 Goku even after the Rosat.

[cantwaitanymore]

It doesn't matter what Trunks and Piccolo said. They were wrong as demonstrated. Not only were they shown to be wrong, their assessments weren't even close to accurate. So their assessment has nothing to do with ki sensing. Trunks is being an arrogant kid and Piccolo is holding onto a false hope which clouded his judgement.

Demonstrated with what LMAO. They are comparing Gotenks PRE and POST. They just didnt know how trully powerful Majin Buu is. Buus actual power has nothing to do with Base Gotenks > SSJ gotenks pre.

Piccolo had an estimation of Buus power. He said SSJ Gotenks absolutely cant beat Buu. Then later seeing how much stronger they are he says that BASE Gotenks has a chance to beat buu. Turns out Buu is way more powerful than Piccolo thought. That doesnt change the Fact that Base Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks pre.

Also again, who cares what you guys think lol

[cantwaitanymore]

It doesn't matter what Trunks and Piccolo said. They were wrong as demonstrated. Not only were they shown to be wrong, their assessments weren't even close to accurate. So their assessment has nothing to do with ki sensing. Trunks is being an arrogant kid and Piccolo is holding onto a false hope which clouded his judgement.

And pre Rosat Gotenks is nothing compared to Goku and even weaker than Vegeta as directly stated. According to official statements, he isn't even close to SSJ3 Goku even after the Rosat.

Offical statements lol, yeah The manga is OFFICIAL STATEMENTS bud.
I love how salty you are. You are arguing with the manga itself lmao
Also Base Gotenks Pre > SSJ2 Majin Vegeta since Krilin and Yamcha seeing how strong Base Gotenks was, they thought he could Beat Fat Buu, the same person SSjin 2 Son Goku and Vegeta were stated to not have a chance against even if they ganged up.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Post Rosat Base Gotenks and Pre Rosat SSJ Gotenks are never directly compared. The only common denominator is that Gotenks in both cases thinks he can beat Boo, which was wrong. And what Krillin and Yamcha thought is irrelevant. They were wrong. They were basing their assessment based on Gotenks' confidence, not any sort of ki sensing.

In Trunks' and Gotenks' mind

Majin Boo: 10
Pre Rosat SSJ Gotenks: Much greater than 10
Post Rosat Base Gotenks: 10

Stated and demonstrated to be wrong in both cases.

The kids think that they can beat Boo as fused Super Saiyans since they think their fusion is the strongest. It isn't based on any sort of rationality. They're kids. They thought that their fused Super Saiyan power was >>>Majin Boo. After the Rosat they think they can equal Boo in Base Fusion which again, was wrong.

Piccolo was being delusional because he was desperate, which is why his assessment was off the mark as well.

As clarified by official statement, Pre Rosat Gotenks is weaker than Vegeta and his power never actually matched up to SSJ3 Goku even Post Rosat as Goku is stated to be on par with someone that vastly surpasses Gotenks.

[cantwaitanymore]

Post Rosat Base Gotenks and Pre Rosat SSJ Gotenks are never directly compared. The only common denominator is that Gotenks in both cases thinks he can beat Boo, which was wrong. And what Krillin and Yamcha thought is irrelevant. They were wrong. They were basing their assessment based on Gotenks' confidence, not any sort of ki sensing.

In Trunks' and Gotenks' mind

Majin Boo: 10
Pre Rosat SSJ Gotenks: Much greater than 10
Post Rosat Base Gotenks: 10

Stated and demonstrated to be wrong in both cases.

The kids think that they can beat Boo as fused Super Saiyans since they think their fusion is the strongest. It isn't based on any sort of rationality. They're kids. They thought that their fused Super Saiyan power was >>>Majin Boo. After the Rosat they think they can equal Boo in Base Fusion which again, was wrong.

Piccolo was being delusional because he was desperate, which is why his assessment was off the mark as well.

As clarified by official statement, Pre Rosat Gotenks is weaker than Vegeta and his power never actually matched up to SSJ3 Goku as he is stated to be on par with someone that vastly surpasses Gotenks.

hahahhahahahhahahahahahhahahahah.

Buus actual power has nothing to do with Base Gotenks> SSJ Gotenks pre.

about SSJ Gotenks power PRE ROSTAT - Piccolo: “Can’t you tell…?! As they are now, even if they perform Fusion they can’t win, no doubt about it

After ROSAT
Trunks: “I think…that we’ve already progressed so much that even in a regular state Fusion, we’ll be about equal with Majin Boo...” (Goten agrees)

about BASE GOTENKS Piccolo: “He-he really is different…! He really has greatly powered up…! Th-this just might…!”

[cantwaitanymore]

Post Rosat Base Gotenks and Pre Rosat SSJ Gotenks are never directly compared. The only common denominator is that Gotenks in both cases thinks he can beat Boo, which was wrong. And what Krillin and Yamcha thought is irrelevant. They were wrong. They were basing their assessment based on Gotenks' confidence, not any sort of ki sensing.

In Trunks' and Gotenks' mind

Majin Boo: 10
Pre Rosat SSJ Gotenks: Much greater than 10
Post Rosat Base Gotenks: 10

Stated and demonstrated to be wrong in both cases.

The kids think that they can beat Boo as fused Super Saiyans since they think their fusion is the strongest. It isn't based on any sort of rationality. They're kids. They thought that their fused Super Saiyan power was >>>Majin Boo. After the Rosat they think they can equal Boo in Base Fusion which again, was wrong.

Piccolo was being delusional because he was desperate, which is why his assessment was off the mark as well.

As clarified by official statement, Pre Rosat Gotenks is weaker than Vegeta and his power never actually matched up to SSJ3 Goku even Post Rosat as Goku is stated to be on par with someone that vastly surpasses Gotenks.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH weaker than Vegita LMAO

Cus daizenshuu said it right guys!!!!

And Yamcha, Krillin and Gotenks say he is at base pre > SSJ2 Majin Vegeta.

i love your salt

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

What Piccolo has in mind has nothing to do with what the kids have in mind. Piccolo knows that they have no chance, yet the kids think they can beat Boo as fused Super Saiyans.

They then think that they can equal Boo with Base Fusion after their training. Piccolo then thinks that Base Gotenks might have a chance against Boo. He was far off the mark, so we know that he wasn't basing his assessment off of ki sensing. It was false hope. So that isn't evidence that Post Rosat Base Gotenks>Pre Rosat SSJ Gotenks and neither is Trunks' statement.

Krillin doesn't say anything about Gotenks being stronger than Vegeta. He says that based on Gotenks' confidence, maybe he can pull it off, not based on any ki he was putting out.

This honestly isn't hard to understand. If you're going to be intentionally obtuse, then there's no point in continuing this.

[cantwaitanymore]

What Piccolo has in mind has nothing to do with what the kids have in mind. Piccolo knows that they have no chance, yet the kids think they can beat Boo as fused Super Saiyans.

They then think that they can equal Boo with Base Fusion after their training. Piccolo then thinks that Base Gotenks might have a chance against Boo. He was far off the mark, so we know that he wasn't basing his assessment off of ki sensing. It was false hope. So that isn't evidence that Post Rosat Base Gotenks>Pre Rosat SSJ Gotenks and neither is Trunks' statement.

Krillin doesn't say anything about Gotenks being stronger than Vegeta. He says that based on Gotenks' confidence, maybe he can pull it off, not based on any ki he was putting out.

This honestly isn't hard to understand. If you're going to be intentionally obtuse, then there's no point in continuing this.

hahahahhah you continue to argue LMAO.

But just to put the final nail in the coffin. About your previous post and daizenshuu statement.

Daizenshuu sucks ass.

In Gohans Bio it states that Gohan didnt use SSJ 2 after Volume 37 (I believe its that one) which is the end of the bodokai, and hasnt yeat shown the fight with dabura.

Dabura's Bio states Gohan was SSJ 2.

Another is that it states Recoome killed Gohan... But thats kinda obviously NOT TRUE.
And that recoome's attack was meant to take out all three of them (Veggie , gohan , and Krillin) but was only aimed at Vegeta.

There are more, and Ill add them shortly, but I would like to confirm my research. Stay tuned.

EDIT: Here we go This is all I feel Like searching through for now. But there are a handful of more.

*Daizenshuu 1 has a pic of 3rd form Freeza, but states it as 2nd Form.

*Daizenshuu 2 States SSJ Vegeta appeared in Volume 32 when it was actually 29
" States Kaioshin appeared in Volume 39 when it was 37.
" Misses some battles, that may not be considered battles, but includes things like Goku V Fish... Soooo
*Daizenshuu 4 states Buu used Goku's Instant Transmission, but it was actually Shin Konido which is Kaioshin's type of teleportation.

*Daizenshuu 7 Tenshinhan's profile lists one of his battles was against no.19, while it actually was against no.17
" 17 uses Kienzan
" Goten was born while Goku fought cell
" Goku's first KHH was used on Tenshinhan, but it was actually Jackie Chun he used it on
" Bra born in 780 in one part of the book, and then later stated to be born in 778.
" The timeline has other errors. Like Yamcha meet, and defeat, and so on.
" Its states Goku stayed dead longer than a year for the saiyans, but he was only dead for a little over 11.
Also dont forget that over the official PL lists from V-Jump, SEG and so on, there are some literaly factual errors, like Piccolo Diamao's 260, despite tenshinhan being 250 at the start of Z and the fact that Weighted Goku from Piccolo Jr being > Piccolo D and Tein being on par with that goku

The list goes on.


Base Gotenks > SSJ gotenks Pre is a manga fact which is backed up by the statements in the manga.

Simple as that.

Maybe i should listen to you instead of the factual statements from the manga

For the last time. Buus actual power has nothing to do with this.
They all thought Buus power is way lower than it actually is. But even so they knew that SSJ gotenks doesnt stand a chance. Then Base Gotenks was stronger than SSJ Gotenks and they all thought they had a chance as Base Gotenks. Turns out they were wrong. Way wrong. But that has nothing to do with Base Gotenks being stronger than SSJ Gotenks as he FACTUALLY DID POWER UP THAT MUCH.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Ok, so you have no argument. Good to know.

[cantwaitanymore]

Ok, so you have no argument. Good to know.

You got owned xaaxaxax :*

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Ok, so you have no argument. Good to know.

You got owned xaaxaxax :*

Learn some debate etiquette, jeez.

Structure your sentences, use some professionalism, and don't use that 1337 speak. It's just not a good way to conduct yourself.

[Hugo Boss]

Given his behavior towards the other members, I’m sure he isn’t in the spirit of keeping a low profile. Expecting the staff to come here anytime soon.

But back to the topic, @supersaiyangodgogeta is on point. Lines took out of context don’t prove anything.

[TheNingen]

Ok, so you have no argument. Good to know.

You got owned xaaxaxax :*

Learn some debate etiquette, jeez.

Structure your sentences, use some professionalism, and don't use that 1337 speak. It's just not a good way to conduct yourself.

Just waiting for him to be dealt with at this point. It's obvious that he lacks the maturity and civility to be on a public platform. I'd recommend right now to just ignore him in general since he insists on acting like a child, so it's best to treat him like one until an authority can deal with him and his needless antagonism and flaming. He wants to break the rules so badly, he can learn the repercussions of doing so.

Also, @Hugo, what are you talking about? ;p Context NEVER matters with anything. (Thatwassarcasmdontkillme)

[AvatarReiko]

What are everyone's thoughts on Qauman and Seth's "M12 Gogeta vs M8 Broly" debate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiqWdj4uc9I

It just does not make sense to me that M8 Broly could be stronger than M12 Vegeta

[ZombieVito]

Gotenks in Base is stronger than the SSJs of his fusees. All indications show that to he true. How he compares to Vegeta is irrelevant. And Gotenks obviously isn't competing with Super Buu until he hits SSJ3, but that doesnt mean his Base cant be stronger than the SSJ of his fusions.

He can't be stronger in base than the kids as Super Saiyans and then be weaker than SS2 Vegeta and Good Boo as a Super Saiyan.

He isn't weaker than SSJ2 Vegeta and Good Boo as a Super Saiyan.

He was according to Daizenshuu.

Hell even after the RoSaT he still failed to one shot Aka while Goku did and SS2 Vegeta put up a better fight against Beerus in BoG than him.

Even Kuririn didnt considered him at all in RoF while he did Gohan (He didnt know he slacked off) and Boo.