Of course without dragon ball characters nobody will be intrigued, arcs are supposed to fit with previous introductions and building up .TKA wrote: This is just a boring start to the Arc. If this didn't have Dragonball characters I wouldn't be intrigued enough to read a third chapter of this arc.
I don't like the Tournament of Power.prince212 wrote:Of course without dragon ball characters nobody will be intrigued, arcs are supposed to fit with previous introductions and building up .TKA wrote: This is just a boring start to the Arc. If this didn't have Dragonball characters I wouldn't be intrigued enough to read a third chapter of this arc.
Would you be intrigued in T.o.P arc , broly movie or any super arc. Not having db characters?
Boring start ... respectable, but certainly an unpopular opinion judging overall reactions.
Agree with that , and I’m afraid next chapter might just end with goku and vegeta defeated and they’ll leave the twist for the chapter after the next . I feel myself hungry for more than just here is the villain , beat him .(Toei ) , let’s see if that will be delivered soon , it’s about timeTKA wrote: A twist desperately needs to happen next chapter or this won't be anything more than the typical Toei movie.
Couldn't this more or less be framed the same way with this arc?TKA wrote:Battle of Gods - God of destruction wakes up. Super Saiyan God prophecy. He beats up Super Saiyan 3 Goku in an instant.
You can't be seriousMarlowe89 wrote: Super in general doesn't seem to care much for the twists and turns of old; what you see is what you get.
Therein lies the obvious problem, no? Battle of Gods did it first.PFM18 wrote: Couldn't this more or less be framed the same way with this arc?
Well if you frame it that way, then almost every arc is bad, because the premise has been used before.TKA wrote:Therein lies the obvious problem, no? Battle of Gods did it first.PFM18 wrote: Couldn't this more or less be framed the same way with this arc?
That's a gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what I'm saying, but okay, man.PFM18 wrote:Well if you frame it that way, then almost every arc is bad, because the premise has been used before.
see, normally you would explain how/why it is a "gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation" rather than just saying so.TKA wrote:That's a gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what I'm saying, but okay, man.PFM18 wrote:Well if you frame it that way, then almost every arc is bad, because the premise has been used before.
Didn't anyone teach you not to throw stones from glass houses? Just six posts ago you replied to me with a pointless "You can't be serious" instead of clarifying why you disagree.PFM18 wrote: see, normally you would explain how/why it is a "gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation" rather than just saying so.
Well, fair point about my comment, probably was inappropriate.(although could have been a distasteful joke given the comment you made) Still doesn't excuse his comment that was painfully akin to "yeah well you're wrong" when I pointed out to him that his logic could be applied elsewhere in the series and the same criticism could be posed.Marlowe89 wrote:Didn't anyone teach you not to throw stones from glass houses? Just six posts ago you replied to me with a pointless "You can't be serious" instead of clarifying why you disagree.PFM18 wrote: see, normally you would explain how/why it is a "gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation" rather than just saying so.
If you're interested in having a discussion, don't leave useless remarks like that. It's dishonest and it muddies the conversation.
I think what TKA is expressing [Correct me when I'm wrong TKA] is that he is not so much concerned with the reused plot format. However, there would usually be some kind of twist in them. He is waiting for the story to take a drastic turn. He used examples with Radditz showing up but a ground breaking revelation was revealed that Goku was an alien and the villain was his brother. One of my all time favorites was this mysterious Super Saiyan showing up casually hacking Freeza only to find out he is from the future and the arc tied back to the red ribbon army. I believe that is what he is trying to get across, so far nothing has "awed" from a narrative standpoint. Mysteries about our characters are still under the rug.PFM18 wrote:see, normally you would explain how/why it is a "gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation" rather than just saying so.TKA wrote:That's a gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what I'm saying, but okay, man.PFM18 wrote:Well if you frame it that way, then almost every arc is bad, because the premise has been used before.
He's a straight up wizard goat man, doesnt appear to have some BS regen ability. That's a first in Dragonball for a long time. Most characters end up being 'hurrdurr regen'Shaddy wrote:I'm pretty sure the heart of this issue is that Moro as of right now has no charm as a villain and has shown us nothing impressive or unique compared to any other villains, and the start of this arc is just boring and disjointed so far. I don't think this is particularly surprising, as Toyotaro has had this issue a lot over the course of the manga as a whole. Lots of points just don't have the impact or atmosphere that they should, I think it's a lot more noticeable here because it's entirely new, and for all we know, Toyotaro-exclusive. This guy certainly feels more like something Toyo would have written in his AF series than the kind of villains Toriyama usually comes up with.
They really weren’t preparing. Gokou can literally teleport instantly to someone’s location. They got there when Moro got thereMarlowe89 wrote:What I liked:
Some decent action in this chapter. The ATATATATAs are notably absent and I really liked the weird outmaneuver-ish choreography between Moro and Vegeta. I'll probably never get tired of seeing our Saiyan duo gauge their opponents through good old-fashioned transformation cycling.
I'm going to echo what others have said about Moro's full design looking like something Toyotaro came up with instead of Toriyama. However, it might be one of the few supposedly non-Toriyama character designs I don't instantly despise. From anyone else I would have expected an edgy, generic monster like Hatchiyack or Hildegarn for a main baddie, but Toyotaro went with a wrinkly and frail-looking sorcerer type villain instead. That's pretty neat, even if not necessarily unheard of in other fiction. I think it also brings some sense of aesthetic variety to the "canon" stories.
Vegeta wanting to kinda make amends with the Namekians is a great moment and perfectly in-character for him at this stage of continuity. It's a nice reminder of how far he's come since his introduction in the series, addresses a hanging thread from the Freeza arc, and feels like a natural extension of the Boo arc's climax where he was also careful to include everyone he personally killed while reviving the Earthings. Little dialogue snippets like these always make me happy that the manga continues to understand Dragon Ball's characters so well.
What I didn't like:
I'd call this one a directorial nitpick, but having Goku and Vegeta stand there in preparation for the bad guy's spaceship landing is awfully familiar after watching Broly. Maybe too familiar. It just feels like a recycled beat, considering this is supposed to take place right after that story.
Overall:
For a setup oriented chapter, I thought it was far more enjoyable than last month's. There's actually some progression here now that the villain has made his move, so it'll be fun to see where the plot takes us. Still a lot of build-up, so hopefully the payoff is good.
Correct on all counts. I feel like I more than adequately explained my position, so I'm glad someone saw that.Miracles wrote: I think what TKA is expressing [Correct me when I'm wrong TKA] is that he is not so much concerned with the reused plot format. However, there would usually be some kind of twist in them. He is waiting for the story to take a drastic turn. He used examples with Radditz showing up but a ground breaking revelation was revealed that Goku was an alien and the villain was his brother. One of my all time favorites was this mysterious Super Saiyan showing up casually hacking Freeza only to find out he is from the future and the arc tied back to the red ribbon army. I believe that is what he is trying to get across, so far nothing has "awed" from a narrative standpoint. Mysteries about our characters are still under the rug.
See, the problem with that is that an example he gave with BoG, follows almost exactly the same way in terms of the premise that he praised it for. If BoG is an example of something that is praised for it's twist, then so should this arc. And I brought this to his attention, and his response was akin to "Yeah, but that's the problem! they did it first!"(aka he says the reuse is the problem) and then all of a sudden reusing a format is not related to his point and addressing it constitutes a "gross misunderstanding."Miracles wrote:I think what TKA is expressing [Correct me when I'm wrong TKA] is that he is not so much concerned with the reused plot format. However, there would usually be some kind of twist in them. He is waiting for the story to take a drastic turn. He used examples with Radditz showing up but a ground breaking revelation was revealed that Goku was an alien and the villain was his brother. One of my all time favorites was this mysterious Super Saiyan showing up casually hacking Freeza only to find out he is from the future and the arc tied back to the red ribbon army. I believe that is what he is trying to get across, so far nothing has "awed" from a narrative standpoint. Mysteries about our characters are still under the rug.PFM18 wrote:see, normally you would explain how/why it is a "gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation" rather than just saying so.TKA wrote:
That's a gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what I'm saying, but okay, man.
Why? Whats wrong with this being a Toyo-only arc?Miracles wrote:I really hope this isn't a Toyo exclusive written arc with Toriyama just checking the plot and adding input here and there.
....that it's not Toriyama. If it is exclusively written by Toyo, and ideas aren't being given by Toriyama or the narrative isn't being written by Toriyama in any way, then that's an issue.AnimeNation101 wrote:Why? Whats wrong with this being a Toyo-only arc?Miracles wrote:I really hope this isn't a Toyo exclusive written arc with Toriyama just checking the plot and adding input here and there.
