Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Maybe Goten and Trunks just aren't very complimentary fusees, despite being Saiyans of the same general age and strength.

I mean, they don't really "complete one another" in any way.

[TheNingen]

Maybe Goten and Trunks just aren't very complimentary fusees, despite being Saiyans of the same general age and strength.

I mean, they don't really "complete one another" in any way.

Well they're best friends. Not rivals. They don't inspire each other to get stronger. And they don't hate each other. They just like having fun.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I dont know what you guys are talking about, but the scaling in the fusion saga is pretty clear.

Ssj3 Goku = Kids Buu <<< Super Buu < SSJ3 Gotenks.

SSJ Gotenks should be comparable to ssj3 Goku.

[Hugo Boss]

Maybe Goten and Trunks just aren't very complimentary fusees, despite being Saiyans of the same general age and strength.

I mean, they don't really "complete one another" in any way.

Well they're best friends. Not rivals. They don't inspire each other to get stronger. And they don't hate each other. They just like having fun.

That’s debatable. There is at least a childish competition between them. I think they just don’t seem to have a large room for growing, since most of their potential was already accessible.

[dragon boss z]

I dont know what you guys are talking about, but the scaling in the fusion saga is pretty clear.

Ssj3 Goku = Kids Buu <<< Super Buu < SSJ3 Gotenks.

SSJ Gotenks should be comparable to ssj3 Goku.

I agree Super Buu is stronger than kid Buu, but I don't think it's by that much. Goku said he and Vegeta couldn't beat him, but they couldn't beat kid Buu either. Super Buu should be around kid Buu + fat Buu power wise, considering kid Buu was just Super Buu with fat Buu ripped out of him. Or another way to look at it is Super Buu should be kid Buu + the two supreme kais he absorbed but with no suppression. So at max Super Buu should be around 3x kid Buu unless you think those kais are stronger than kid Buu.
They way I see it
ssj2 Goku/Vegeta<=Mr Buu<=Fat Buu while not angry<ssj Gotenks<=>serious/mad Fat Buu<=>suppressed ssj3 Goku<kid Buu<=full power ssj3 Goku<Super Buu(basically if Fat Buu didn't have his power restrictions and a better body for fighting)<ssj3 Gotenks

[WeLoveBroly]

Hypothetically speaking. How strong would Super saiyan blue Broly be?

[Green]

Or another way to look at it is Super Buu should be kid Buu + the two supreme kais he absorbed but with no suppression.

I don't think that's the case, since Buff Buu is explicitly stated to be stronger than Super Buu yet he's just Kid Buu + South Kaioshin.
The Daizenshuu 7 states that when Buu absorbed the other Kaioshin, his power somewhat weakened, which means there can't be an astronomical gap between the various Buu versions like countless DB enthusiasts claim. Then again, guides can be ignored, but I always thought it very unlikely that in Toriyama's view Goku was hundreds of times weaker than Super Buu.

[dragon boss z]

Or another way to look at it is Super Buu should be kid Buu + the two supreme kais he absorbed but with no suppression.

I don't think that's the case, since Buff Buu is explicitly stated to be stronger than Super Buu yet he's just Kid Buu + South Kaioshin.
The Daizenshuu 7 states that when Buu absorbed the other Kaioshin, his power somewhat weakened, which means there can't be an astronomical gap between the various Buu versions like countless DB enthusiasts claim. Then again, guides can be ignored, but I always thought it very unlikely that in Toriyama's view Goku was hundreds of times weaker than Super Buu.

I would say the reason for that is Super Buu still had some of his power suppressed by the grand supreme kai, and I agree, all the Buu's are pretty close in power imo. My personal scale goes something like this
Mr. Buu:4 Evil Buu:6 Fat Buu max power:10 kid Buu:16 Super Buu (lowball):20 Super Buu (high ball):32

[Miracles]

I dont know what you guys are talking about, but the scaling in the fusion saga is pretty clear.

Ssj3 Goku = Kids Buu <<< Super Buu < SSJ3 Gotenks.

SSJ Gotenks should be comparable to ssj3 Goku.

However it was not clear cut if SSJ 3 Gotenks was stronger than Super Buu. The narrative pointed out that Buu didn't try to defeat Gotenks because he already planned to absorb them after sensing the stronger Gohan in Kaioshin's realm.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Count me as another that doesn't think Goku is hundreds of times weaker than Super Boo

Goku was hoping they'd be able to weaken Boo and somehow return him to Fat Boo once Fusion was off the table.

So naturally, Goku would be in the middle of Fat Boo and Super Boo. Gohan had no qualms sitting back and allowing Gotenks to take on Boo alone after sensing his power. Knowing that, Gotenks and Boo would be around the same level at the very least.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I dont know what you guys are talking about, but the scaling in the fusion saga is pretty clear.

Ssj3 Goku = Kids Buu <<< Super Buu < SSJ3 Gotenks.

SSJ Gotenks should be comparable to ssj3 Goku.

However it was not clear cut if SSJ 3 Gotenks was stronger than Super Buu. The narrative pointed out that Buu didn't try to defeat Gotenks because he already planned to absorb them after sensing the stronger Gohan in Kaioshin's realm.

I always just put them as equal, like how Pure Buu and SS3 Goku are essentially equal.

I like doing that a lot, actually. Makes powerscaling a whole lot simpler if we assume relatively equalized levels for different characters/forms and whatnot.

[Hugo Boss]

Hypothetically speaking. How strong would Super saiyan blue Broly be?

It’s difficult to imagine that, since Broly’s Super Saiyan form is the exact opposite of a tranquil form. But assuming somehow Broly achieves it I would guess it could make Broly a much better fighter and possibly on par with Gogeta.

[ssj3kakarot]

Hypothetically speaking. How strong would Super saiyan blue Broly be?

First. I think Gogeta is already easily stronger than Broly in the movie. Those who think Broly = Gogeta most likely are fanboys. However, I think he would reasonably be a few times stronger than Gogeta. I still think the likes of Whis or any Angels could finger flick him though. They have hax powers to the max.

It all depends though if they try and keep a consistent "boost" that blue has shown to give people. In the ToP, SSG Goku wasn't enough to really even get Jirens attention, as he deflected Goku with 1 finger. Blue was something that was shown that Jiren at least needed to actually spar against. So the difference in power should be rather drastic for Broly. I don't think Broly falls under a special category and would have an even greater boost than someone else, but since his already crazy high power level is so tremendous, the boost would make him outright scary to anyone who isn't : An Angel, Grand Priest, Zeno, Akira Toryiama, and finally Mr Popo((pecking order) ( In that order of course from least to greatest))

[Hugo Boss]

Those who think Broly = Gogeta most likely are fanboys.

Bandai was invaded by fanboys.

[Miracles]

I dont know what you guys are talking about, but the scaling in the fusion saga is pretty clear.

Ssj3 Goku = Kids Buu <<< Super Buu < SSJ3 Gotenks.

SSJ Gotenks should be comparable to ssj3 Goku.

However it was not clear cut if SSJ 3 Gotenks was stronger than Super Buu. The narrative pointed out that Buu didn't try to defeat Gotenks because he already planned to absorb them after sensing the stronger Gohan in Kaioshin's realm.

I always just put them as equal, like how Pure Buu and SS3 Goku are essentially equal.

I like doing that a lot, actually. Makes powerscaling a whole lot simpler if we assume relatively equalized levels for different characters/forms and whatnot.

Yeah, that's not a bad notion. They seemed equal in the fight. It's just still factually up in the air since Super Buu wasn't trying to eradicate Gotenks.

Those who think Broly = Gogeta most likely are fanboys.

Bandai was invaded by fanboys.

That's interesting. Bandai has Full Power Super Saiyajin Broly equal to Blue Gogeta.

I can't wait to see the movie. So I can truly see what the deal is.

[TheUltimateNinja]

It would make sense for Gogeta and Broly to be equals. Gogeta was throwing finisher after finisher and Broly was taking them all. Vegeta dispatched Zarbon pretty handily despite being almost equal to him too.

[ssj3kakarot]

Those who think Broly = Gogeta most likely are fanboys.

Bandai was invaded by fanboys.

When someone uses a dragon ball card power level to prove their point,it only devalues their platform. Especially because we see someone like Cooler also in the card line up. Doesn't speak volumes for your case. I don't use a couple of cards to get my information, neither do I use them to try and support or deny my position. Just watch the movie again, Gogeta is practically toying with FP Broly. Granted this is my opinion on what the visual ques that were given us as viewers. You have your opinion, I just believe that there is a mountain of evidence that makes your opinion the wrong one.

[TheNingen]

Maybe Goten and Trunks just aren't very complimentary fusees, despite being Saiyans of the same general age and strength.

I mean, they don't really "complete one another" in any way.

Well they're best friends. Not rivals. They don't inspire each other to get stronger. And they don't hate each other. They just like having fun.

That’s debatable. There is at least a childish competition between them. I think they just don’t seem to have a large room for growing, since most of their potential was already accessible.

What I mean is that they don't have the intense and rather antagonistic relationship/rivalry that Goku and Vegeta do.

[Bullza]

I haven't read any of the posts in this for about a month and a half so I know everyone has already probably talked circles around the new movie but I haven't seen anything.

Without being influenced by any other opinions and having seen the movie...

They said Broly was "maybe" stronger than Beerus. That reminded me of Shin saying that Super Saiyan Blue Vegito was maybe stronger than Beerus in the manga so that ties up nicely. With the training they did since then it would make sense for Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta to be above Beerus.

He doesn't seem like he should be as strong as Jiren though. Jiren they seemed quite confident was above a God of Destruction, no maybe about it. With his Limit Breaker power that came out as well on top of that he seems like he would be a good bit in front.

Which would also seem likely to me because Jiren was a match for Ultra Instinct Goku. I don't think Broly or Gogeta is meant to be as strong as that. I think they just teased but didn't use it because they're saving it for a later time and something bigger.

Plus for what's it's worth Heroes clearly makes Ultra Instinct out to be far better than Fusion.

The other thing to point out was that Super Saiyan Gogeta was far stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku so this old assumption of Super Saiyan God Goku being stronger than any hypothetical Super Saiyan 3 Vegito would seem unlikely now.

Super Saiyan God Goku could have been more comparable to Gohan Buu perhaps.

[TheUltimateNinja]

The novel describes the power of SSG as being in a different dimension from the regular forms so it seems they definitely intend for it to be a huge power up still. It fits with Goku telling Beerus SSG was a new realm of power he never imagined.