WittyUsername wrote:Just to be clear, there have been MeToo cases where the alleged predator was a woman, so singling out men isn’t exactly doing anyone any favors.
Tian wrote:Uh... Kunzait. Even though the cases are somewhat rare, rape or sexual harassment can happen to men too. It's not an one-sided thing.
Yes, I'm more than well aware that rape/sexual assault also happens to men. Yes I'm also very aware of the #MeToo cases where the perpetrator was a woman. I simply forgot to note that as I speed-typed my way through this (while juggling other, vastly more important work I'm doing at the same time). My apologies for not remembering to cover my ever last possible base here as I juggle through a multitude of different points I'm trying to make.
My forgetting to note something doesn't ALWAYS necessarily or inherently mean that its absence is indicative of some insidious bias on my part: in this case, it just means I was so busy cobbling together all my other points that I lost that one in the scramble.
WittyUsername wrote:Anyway, just so you know, the stuff that you see in the DCAU doesn’t “pop my monocle”, but that stuff isn’t the only indication that these guys are into some kinky stuff. Have you seen Bruce Timm’s Pinup art?
Yeah. So? That stuff's no worse at all than a typical Betty Page spread from the 1950s. Again, you're making Timm's stuff sound WAY more racy, raunchy, and sexually "edgy" than it even REMOTELY actually is; certainly relative to a LOT of other stuff that's out there (and has BEEN out there for ages now).
The guy's into classic, vintage mid-20th century erotica pinup aesthetics: so are a whole LOT of other dudes (and women!) out there. That HARDLY makes any of them inherently "suspicious" of some sort of deep, dark sexual perversion against women. Having a hetero-male (or lesbian-female) sex drive in a broad general sense and having it even shine through in your art/creative output to whatever degree is in NO way any sort of an indicator of anything other than the person has a healthy, functioning sex drive and a working pulse.
Yes, there are indeed SOME folks out there putting out forms of "erotica" that are insidiously creepy and plenty worrisome (*cough*Moe/Loli*cough*): vintage 1950s pinup fetishism is SO beyond benign and SO far removed from that mark though (by like ZILLIONS of lightyears), its downright laughable. Again, these things have GOT to be taken in context and case by case, and using no small amount of common sense.
But seriously, this line of thinking you're putting forward here is starting to almost sidle up along the edges of "Anyone who even THINKS about sex is secretly a rapist!" Which is hysterically silly and dumb.
WittyUsername wrote:I still don’t think it’s a good idea to put sexual content in something that’s geared towards kids. I’m an atheist, so I have no religious reasons in thinking this, but I do think that pissing off the religious groups (and Mike Cernovich) by teaching kids about sex, probably isn’t a good idea. I didn’t even care about this kind of stuff before the MeToo movement, but in light of it, I’m starting to think that these religious “nut jobs” might have a point.
Yeah, this is where you've gone WAY off the rails here.
First of all, just for the general record: NONE of these sorts of conversations about sexual dynamics are the LEAST bit new in light of #MeToo. Plenty of people (myself and countless friends and acquaintances of mine included) have been aware/cognizant of these issues in modern society and discussing them (to one degree or another) going back years/decades now. What #MeToo has done is brought them MUCH more closely to the forefront of the zeitgeist, as well as introduced them to a younger generation (that has kept themselves ignorant about a lot of it for a very long time), as well as more importantly given a BADLY needed social media platform to women who have endured real, serious abuse and suffering as a result of these issues for decades and decades now.
Ok, that out of the way now:
If you think that teaching kids about sex is purely and specifically for the express purpose of "pissing off religious groups"... then you might need to do a whooooole LOT more reading and thinking about the history and reasoning for sex education in general. If you're doing ANYTHING in life purely and primarily out of spite/to piss off someone else, then you are almost assuredly doing that something for EXACTLY the wrong and stupidest possible reasons (hint hint towards those on the neo-reactionary right whose entire political philosophy primarily boils down to "whatever triggers the snowflake SJW libs").
Children should be educated about sex mainly and primarily because sex is an unavoidable and inherent part of life itself. Keeping kids ignorant about human sexuality is in many ways tantamount to keeping them ignorant on math, basic human biology, and general science: there's literally ZERO reason for it and absolutely NOTHING positive to be gained from it on the kids' end, and PLENTY to damage as a result.
Leaving children ignorant on the subject sex and human sexuality comes with a DIZZYING array of drawbacks so numerous I don't even know where to begin. Most obvious up front, you leave them VERY open and vulnerable to child-sex predators, who have a MUCH easier time coercing kids who are 100% ignorant and naive about the existence of sexual dynamics than kids who are armed with the knowledge of what to look out for and be wary of when interacting with other adults.
Secondly, it is literally flat-out IMPOSSIBLE to keep ANY kid 100% shielded from ANY contact with ANYTHING remotely related to sex, as sex like I said is SUCH a fundamental and ingrained part of life. Kids also eventually hit puberty, and they'll begin to have sexual thoughts and urges on their own, whether you've explained it to them or not: and when that happens, they are MUCH better off going into those pubescent changes as knowledgeable about what is happening to them as possible, as far in advance as possible. Puberty can otherwise be a horrifyingly frightening experience for any kid who's been kept 100% innocent and oblivious to the fundamental workings of human sexuality, and all of a sudden has it sprung on them by mother nature out of the clear blue one day.
What also often ends up happening with kids who are completely shielded from ever talking or thinking about sex their whole lives is that it in many cases can potentially lead to ALL KINDS of negative and destructive thoughts and ideas in how they view sex going into adulthood. Kids who've been kept uneducated and in the dark about sex their entire lives and are left to just suddenly deal with sexual urges without ANY adult guidance or wisdom as they go into puberty, can often then develop all kinds of negative ideas and attitudes about sex that help contribute to things like "rape culture", "toxic masculinity" and what have you.
Plenty of sex predators are often (though certainly not necessarily ALWAYS of course: nothing is ever 100%) people who as kids were kept totally in the dark about sex or had not had any real adult guidance in encouraging serious critical thought or discussion about sex throughout their adolescence: there is often a recurring theme of sexual repression in the backgrounds of a LOT of sex offenders out there: often stemming from various forms of religious upbringings (so no, the "religious crazies" have NEVER "had a point on this all along"). Not teaching a kid about sexuality at all means also not teaching kids about sexual morality as well: and obviously, it is ESSENTIAL for kids to be raised with a sound and sane moral compass of SOME sort or other. In ALL areas of life, up to and including sex.
I would argue that the problems that have lead to #MeToo would be GREATLY HELPED rather than worsened by having MORE young kids be MORE deeply and thoroughly educated even EARLIER on in life about sex, and moreover sexual
ethics. Sex should be thoroughly demystified and destigmatized as early in a kids' development as possible and shown to be exactly what it is: an essential and fundamental part of being human; one that can be greatly positive OR negative, depending ENTIRELY on the context and how its used.
Hiding it away from kids entirely for most of their most critical developmental years only serves to lend it a "forbidden fruit" aura later on in their lives (once puberty has worked its biological magic) that will in many cases cause all kinds of psychological harm, which they then may well possibly pass on to someone else via some manner of sexual abuse.
Basically: don't let your sudden awareness that rape culture is a thing that exists freak you out so much that you zip over to the OTHER opposite reactionary extreme of sexual repression. Sexual repression in children's understanding of their own human biology - which again, often stems culturally from religious dogmatism and puritanism - is a LOT of what's lurking behind a LOT of these #MeToo predators' psychology (alongside a whole HOST of other issues). If you want to fight this problem effectively, then as with most things, its best fought with MORE knowledge and education and transparent openness, not less.
