Vic Mignogna

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:41 pm

It's been a while since I took my Intro to Law class, but the difference between battery and assault is physical harm. Assault is the threat of harm. Someone knowledgeable on the subject should probably chime in.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Doctor. » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:44 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:You cared enough to make several posts on the subject after explicitly telling people you didn't care enough to make another post on the subject. This isn't rocket surgery. It's a contradiction. You're a contradiction.
See if you can get this through your head: just because I spend some of my free time arguing over something does not mean I am invested in it; certainly not the same extent you appear to be. And furthermore, as I said before, a retaliation against personal attacks is a different circumstance all together. This is a very childish "lol if you don't care why do you keep replying" type response, even though you've failed to answer as to what exactly I gain from taking a side or being invested in this case.
Marlowe89 wrote:Why do you think I give even the faintest shit about your preferences, guy? It doesn't alter what you said. It doesn't change the fact that your repeated attempts to bring America up out of nowhere, even just now, reiterates your bizarre need to put people in boxes based on nationality and class. You're being insanely immature, intellectually dishonest, and mostly insensitive right now. Don't act like I'm the only person noticing this or commenting on it.
Don't backpedal. Don't say "yeah, I'm acting like this because you're acting like this!" You started engaging with me when my only response regarding this subject was this:
Doctor. wrote:Reading the article, I don't see how anything he did constitutes sexual assault, as some people are saying in this very thread. Creepy behavior and an indifference or ignorance toward personal boundaries, at the most; worthy of a slap on the wrist, but not the kind of ostracization he's being subject to. He seems to be guilty of being a creep, which is not all-together uncommon among men his age.
So don't backpedal now and say "yeah, I'm only engaging with you now because you were a hypocrite and a meanie." You were fully engaged in this discussion from the start, from the moment I expressed an opposite opinion. I won't bite if you admit the truth, just as long as you stop projecting your investment in this discussion onto me.

As for this,
Marlowe89 wrote:reiterates your bizarre need to put people in boxes based on nationality and class
I guess I have to quote myself again:
Doctor. wrote:This is different from making an inference on cultural differences based on objective information such as someone's nationality or social class. Saying "because you're part of groups I am not a part of, we think differently" is different from "because I think you're part of a group I am not a part of, you're a piece of shit."
Acknowledging a difference in societal norms and cultural perception between social classes and countries in no way means I'm placing people in boxes. You, however:
Marlowe89 wrote:This isn't fucking /pol/, buddy. Not every discussion needs to devolve into a shitflinging contest of potshots at another person's country. Grow up.
I don't even browse /pol/. Good job proving my point.
Marlowe89 wrote:I don't even recall anyone talking about nationality until you started rambling about it for no reason.
This is what I said originally:
Doctor. wrote:This seems like an American thing again, so I'll distance myself from the discussion. I can't muster enough energy to care about societal norms on the other side of the Atlantic.
I acknowledged cultural differences and tried to distance myself from a discussion I care very little about, and one I'm only continuing at the moment in order to clear up these accusations. What "rambling" I did was in response to Kunzait's (and, now, your) knee-jerk reaction to my passing observation.
Marlowe89 wrote:I think you're discrediting yourself at this point because this is such a terrible false equivalency I'm not even sure where to begin. How about the fact that a person directly experiencing assault is dramatically different from a person generalizing an entire wage class and society of people based on a few interactions you had?

This is the goddamn epitome of a sheltered attitude. I'm honestly surprised you posted it, considering how dedicated you were to proving the opposite. :lol:
Yeah, this seems like a waste of time. I can't debate with someone who has such a fundamentally different view of what sexual assault is.

Take a step back and cool off, you need to relax.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by PFM18 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:53 pm

KBABZ wrote:
ruler9871 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:For it to be sexual assault it requires "sexual contact without consent." A kiss on the cheek or a hug dont constitute sexual contact. If they did, then apparently most people are sexually touching their family members constantly.
Exactly
I'm fairly sure I covered this a few pages ago: hugging and kissing can be considered sexual contact, and if it's not with consent, then it constitutes groping. And groping can be sexual harassment.
You say "Hugging and kissing" as though the kissing is actual kissing. If you are kissing on the mouth, and it becomes a "make out" it most certainly is sexual in nature. You wouldn't ever kiss somebody on the mouth intimately outside of a situation with some level of a sexual context. Conversely, a kiss on the cheek is constantly done among family members/friends, it has absolutely no sexual connotation whatsoever.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:18 pm

PFM18 wrote:
KBABZ wrote:
ruler9871 wrote: Exactly
I'm fairly sure I covered this a few pages ago: hugging and kissing can be considered sexual contact, and if it's not with consent, then it constitutes groping. And groping can be sexual harassment.
You say "Hugging and kissing" as though the kissing is actual kissing. If you are kissing on the mouth, and it becomes a "make out" it most certainly is sexual in nature. You wouldn't ever kiss somebody on the mouth intimately outside of a situation with some level of a sexual context. Conversely, a kiss on the cheek is constantly done among family members/friends, it has absolutely no sexual connotation whatsoever.
I disagree personally, a kiss in any location has undertones of intimacy in my opinion.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Marlowe89 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:23 pm

Doctor. wrote: See if you can get this through your head: just because I spend some of my free time arguing over something does not mean I am invested in it
See if you can get this through your head: I don't care about how "invested" you claim to be. I don't care about your preferences. I don't care where you live, what kind of experiences you've had, what your dog's name is, or what kind of bracket you belong to. I'm going by what you yourself said several pages ago in this thread, word-for-word, and I'm saying you blatantly contradicted it, word-for-word.

This isn't hard to understand. Shit like this:
Doctor. wrote: Don't backpedal. Don't say "yeah, I'm acting like this because you're acting like this!"
...is deflecting from the conversation and also putting words in my mouth, since I didn't say that. You are a hypocrite, but that's not why I'm engaging with you. My goal is to demonstrate how thoroughly ass-backwards your position has been, and I never claimed I was just now engaged in doing so.

Don't backpedal? Didn't need to. Don't move the goalposts.
Doctor. wrote:Acknowledging a difference in societal norms and cultural perception between social classes and countries in no way means I'm placing people in boxes.
But you weren't merely doing that, you were using your perceived (and largely unfounded) notions of another person's country and class to mischaracterize that person's argument. "Ummmm it's just an American thing so I'll walk away because I don't care haha" and "Well OBVIOUSLY you're just a bunch of middle-class meanies!" are fucking stupid ad hominem remarks that contribute nothing, say nothing, and are based on nothing. Again, you need to grow up and understand that some views are based on a common sense understanding of the world that doesn't hinge on American societal norms.
Doctor. wrote: I don't even browse /pol/.
Just so we're clear, you understand that me saying "This isn't X" doesn't automatically mean I'm accusing you of X, right? I brought /pol/ up because I think your responses have been well in line with how people interact with each other on that board, regardless of whether you personally browse it or not.

Thanks for proving my point about you having kneejerk reactions.
Doctor. wrote: Take a step back and cool off, you need to relax.
Oh, I'm relaxed. I'm more amused at your antics than flustered, if anything.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Doctor. » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:29 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:I'm saying you blatantly contradicted it, word-for-word.
I didn't, and I've explained in detail why I didn't. If you're ignoring the nuance, then that's your issue. Calm down, go to sleep, get a good rest and come back tomorrow and re-read everything again.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Ajay » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:34 pm

The total lack of common sense on display in this thread is really disheartening, and strikes and/or bans continue to be handed out at an alarming rate. I'd like to once again reiterate that Kanzenshuu is not ever going to play host to these disturbing mentalities.

Stories surrounding Vic Mignogna have existed since long before I ever joined this fandom in a major way, and have continued to do so ever since. Skepticism over said stories were always welcomed as these things would pop in small waves, and then seemingly vanish. We are so far beyond that now.

The release of Broly found particular stories being brought up once again, being recognised in a major way, and leading to a lot of victims to go, "Okay, wow. That thing that happened to me... that wasn't just a one-off?! Here's my story". We now have dozens upon dozens of independent anecdotes from people who don't know one another, spanning across multiple years, and multiple locations.

We now have the likes of co-workers like Monica Rial coming to the same realisations and telling her story. We have Christopher Sabat, Sean Schemmel, Christopher Ayres, and many other former co-stars also coming to understand who Mignogna really is, and showing their support for these poor people.

The writing is right there on the wall. It could not be any clearer. Sexual assault cases often fall down to "He said, she said" scenarios as direct evidence is incredibly hard to come by. It's one of the biggest reasons these things go unreported. Finding patterns among other people making claims is one of the most important elements in these types of situations (this is literally how the police operate), and they're right there in this case.

To scream this blanket "I need evidence!", "Innocent until proven guilty!" response at this point is to be willfully ignorant of how sexual assault cases work, and of what's actually out there regarding Mignogna. Likewise, to redefine what sexual assault is according to your own twisted moral values is vile.

Again, we're not playing host to this on Kanzenshuu.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by TKA » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:44 pm

I've caught up on the pages since I last posted and holy shit is this circular.

Literally on the first page there's a post with detailed links explaining to you:
  • Why sexual assault victims don't come forward immediately.
  • How the power disparity between males and females leads to victims being silent.
  • The nature of "evidence" in cases involving sexual assault
There's also been numerous very well-written posts throughout this thread and even more victims (some very high profile) coming forward, yet every few pages some new person comes in with "But what about the evidence?"

I'd be calling for the mods to lock this thread, but if they had I know I wouldn't have gotten Monica Rial's story. Seriously, guys, take advantage of the resources on the internet and educate yourself on this.
ABED wrote:Earnest question, what is the danger of the "innocent until proven guilty" approach outside of a courtroom?
Because cases of sexual assault are criminal, it's often difficult to prove "without the shadow of a doubt" due to the nature of the evidence (if it was a civil case, you'd only need to be 51% right to "win"). What this means is if we don't treat women like we believe them, other victims will be less likely to come forward and face the same stress with little guarantee of their assaulter being brought to justice.

You basically scare victims into bottling up their sexual assaults and the only people that helps are the predators.
Last edited by TKA on Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:51 pm

TKA wrote:I've caught up on the pages since I last posted and holy shit is this circular.

Literally on the first page there's a post with detailed links explaining to you:
  • Why sexual assault victims don't come forward immediately.
  • How the power disparity between males and females leads to victims being silent.
  • The nature of "evidence" in cases involving sexual assault
There's also been numerous very well-written posts throughout this thread and even more victims (some very high profile) coming forward, yet every few pages some new person comes in with "But what about the evidence?"

I'd be calling for the mods to lock this thread, but if they had I know I wouldn't have gotten Monica Rial's story. Seriously, guys, take advantage of the resources on the internet and educate yourself on this.
It’s not about the evidence anymore.

There are just people who don’t understand what Vic’s been doing is wrong.

And that’s the concerning part.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by TVfan721 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:51 pm

So you might remember in 2014, Vic was announced as being part of the cast for Free! There was a lot of backlash against it due to him being supposedly homophobic and a petition was made which Vic addressed in a panel somewhere in November 2014. One of the people who signed the petition posted an apology video for Vic shortly after which got a lot of attention (and Vic himself commented on)

Well that guy deleted that apology video from 2014 today and has a posted a new video addressing everything. This video says a lot about Vic behind the scenes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jADan-XvawE

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Marlowe89 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:04 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: It’s not about the evidence anymore.

There are just people who don’t understand what Vic’s been doing is wrong.

And that’s the concerning part.
This. A lot of people, at least now, aren't questioning the actual evidence so much as questioning whether what Vic did qualifies as assault, but considering the sheer amount of lines he's willfully crossed, his history with it and all the photographic indicators and testimonies for it, it's beyond disturbing that they would ever do so in the first place.

It's just an asinine situation all around.

Edit: I'd also prefer to keep this thread open for now. It's up to the moderators of course, but I'm interested in a lot of things that can potentially come to light within the next few days.
Last edited by Marlowe89 on Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Paper Lung » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:14 pm

TVfan721 wrote:This video says a lot about Vic behind the scenes...
Eh, not really. OP was just super paranoid that Vic would remember his name from the petition and stop him from ever making it as a voice actor.

As for the whole situation surrounding Vic Mignogna, and as someone who has had his life ruined from false allegations, I stand with Vic unless some actual hard evidence against him comes out. "He hugged and/or kissed me on the cheek/forehead without my consent and that made me feel uncomfortable" is not enough for me to nail him to the cross.
Last edited by Paper Lung on Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by eledoremassis02 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:26 pm

Ajay wrote:The total lack of common sense on display in this thread is really disheartening, and strikes and/or bans continue to be handed out at an alarming rate. I'd like to once again reiterate that Kanzenshuu is not ever going to play host to these disturbing mentalities.

Stories surrounding Vic Mignogna have existed since long before I ever joined this fandom in a major way, and have continued to do so ever since. Skepticism over said stories were always welcomed as these things would pop in small waves, and then seemingly vanish. We are so far beyond that now.

The release of Broly found particular stories being brought up once again, being recognised in a major way, and leading to a lot of victims to go, "Okay, wow. That thing that happened to me... that wasn't just a one-off?! Here's my story". We now have dozens upon dozens of independent anecdotes from people who don't know one another, spanning across multiple years, and multiple locations.

We now have the likes of co-workers like Monica Rial coming to the same realisations and telling her story. We have Christopher Sabat, Sean Schemmel, Christopher Ayres, and many other former co-stars also coming to understand who Mignogna really is, and showing their support for these poor people.

The writing is right there on the wall. It could not be any clearer. Sexual assault cases often fall down to "He said, she said" scenarios as direct evidence is incredibly hard to come by. It's one of the biggest reasons these things go unreported. Finding patterns among other people making claims is one of the most important elements in these types of situations (this is literally how the police operate), and they're right there in this case.

To scream this blanket "I need evidence!", "Innocent until proven guilty!" response at this point is to be willfully ignorant of how sexual assault cases work, and of what's actually out there regarding Mignogna. Likewise, to redefine what sexual assault is according to your own twisted moral values is vile.

Again, we're not playing host to this on Kanzenshuu.
I don’t think Sabat and them are really coming to understand who Vic is, but I think they are being allowed to openly talk about it. I wish someone in the industry would really elaborate why Vic was/is allowed to do what he does. I want to say it's as simple as ''he brings in money'' and it very well may be. But that’s the aspect that bothers me the most. And this seems to be a problem at conventions across the board (anime and comic). Does Sabat answer others’ Tweets or can I private message him? (I have never used Twitter before but I'd like to find out more as to why this is allowed to happen.)

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:41 pm

TKA wrote:
ABED wrote:Earnest question, what is the danger of the "innocent until proven guilty" approach outside of a courtroom?
Because cases of sexual assault are criminal, it's often difficult to prove "without the shadow of a doubt" due to the nature of the evidence (if it was a civil case, you'd only need to be 51% right to "win"). What this means is if we don't treat women like we believe them, other victims will be less likely to come forward and face the same stress with little guarantee of their assaulter being brought to justice.

You basically scare victims into bottling up their sexual assaults and the only people that helps are the predators.
Thanks for the response.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by ShadowBardock89 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:48 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Does sabat answer others tweets or can I private message him (I have never used twitter before) but I'd like to find out more as to why this is allowed to happen.
On Twitter, you can tweet users or you can DM (Direct Mesage) them. Sabat does not have the option his profile to DM him, but he does answer tweets (as seen on in the "Tweets & Replies" section).
However, I do not think he will your question. He might, but I doubt it.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by prince212 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:05 pm

Paper Lung wrote: As for the whole situation surrounding Vic Mignogna, and as someone who has had his life ruined from false allegations, I stand with Vic unless some actual hard evidence against him comes out. "He hugged and/or kissed me on the cheek/forehead without my consent and that made me feel uncomfortable" is not enough for me to nail him to the cross.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:09 pm

Paper Lung wrote:I stand with Vic unless some actual hard evidence against him comes out. "He hugged and/or kissed me on the cheek/forehead without my consent and that made me feel uncomfortable" is not enough for me to nail him to the cross.
I encourage you to read the rest of the thread then, particularly the bits where Monica Rial says on Twitter that he's a repeat offender despite saying he'd change.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by TVfan721 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:52 pm

Paper Lung wrote:
TVfan721 wrote:This video says a lot about Vic behind the scenes...
Eh, not really. OP was just super paranoid that Vic would remember his name from the petition and stop him from ever making it as a voice actor.

As for the whole situation surrounding Vic Mignogna, and as someone who has had his life ruined from false allegations, I stand with Vic unless some actual hard evidence against him comes out. "He hugged and/or kissed me on the cheek/forehead without my consent and that made me feel uncomfortable" is not enough for me to nail him to the cross.

His "paranoia" was legit. He didn't get work for 3 years because of Vic's control over the industry. He basically got blacklisted for signing the petition against Vic.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Paper Lung » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:07 pm

TVfan721 wrote:
Paper Lung wrote:
TVfan721 wrote:This video says a lot about Vic behind the scenes...
Eh, not really. OP was just super paranoid that Vic would remember his name from the petition and stop him from ever making it as a voice actor.

As for the whole situation surrounding Vic Mignogna, and as someone who has had his life ruined from false allegations, I stand with Vic unless some actual hard evidence against him comes out. "He hugged and/or kissed me on the cheek/forehead without my consent and that made me feel uncomfortable" is not enough for me to nail him to the cross.

His "paranoia" was legit. He didn't get work for 3 years because of Vic's control over the industry. He basically got blacklisted for signing the petition against Vic.
I didn’t watch the full video because it’s too long but is there any actual proof that Vic kept him out of a job? Or is this all just speculation?

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:51 pm

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