"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[batistabus]

I don't have too much to say about this chapter, really. I thought the action was nice to look at. I constantly found myself thinking "that would look cool in FighterZ".

To be honest, I'm pretty burned out on Dragon Ball fights at the moment. I've watched Broly about 6 times now, and considering how much of that film is sheer action...I'm just looking for something else at this point. I'm sure this will flow just fine in a future reading, but month-to-month on the heels of Broly, I'm finding myself getting impatient. I think there's a lot of interesting potential for how things might play out moving forward, but until they do, that's about all I've got.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Even if you find that his skills are uninteresting at the moment, it's early to say because it's just an introduction.

But it's not an introduction, and we're well past the introductions. That's my point.

Remember that it was the previous chapter's cliffhanger that teased Moro's magic. There's no way in absolute hell anyone wasn't expecting more than what we got (e.g. a different application of his ability in the first chapter, but spammed over and over again) so the downsides are two-fold: on one hand, the reader is misled without any payoff, and on the other, the pacing and story structure are both horribly realized because their conflict has contributed nothing to the arc's characters and themes for SIXTY PAGES.

People can criticize the manga's Tournament of Power all they want, but that was a story. Real events were developing in every chapter, the plot progression wasn't insulting our time and there were substantial character beats all throughout. We're not getting that here.

Exactly. Moro's ability just being a rehash of his introductory powers, applied in a few different ways is a let down. It would of been fine if the absorbing was a main staple to power himself up and use that skill for different variations of magic. Since he is weakened, I guess we could still see this happen [Just like you stated]. However, I'm afraid that won't be the case since Toyotaro made Moro's absorbing ability also apply to our heroes. Removing god powers from Goku and Vegeta is a big plot device to help Moro cope with their power and gives the story a bigger excuse to use Dai Kaioshin. I believe this approach will stunt our characters growth in figuring out a way to fight Moro on their own in a unique way.

The only thing I could say for the overall plot progression so far is that Moro's wish is confirmed and more of Vegeta's development of him accepting his role as a good guy.

In fact, the solution of Goku and Vegeta will probably be to use the Dai Kaioshin, as Merus planned. But from this, we have several possibilities not only in relation to battles, but to the progress of history also

First, the consequences of taking Dai Kaioshin out of Boo's body. What will happen? Is Boo going to be totally evil again or is it going to turn out to be something we've never seen?

And even if Dai Kaioshin faces Moro, he would probably lose in a melee fight, so either way Goku and Vegeta will need a new way to face him long enough for Kaioshin to use his magic. Not to mention that, considering that Moro regains his youth and uses all his power, it is not guaranteed that Kaioken will be able to seal it again, which could also make the heroes defeat him differently

[God Gogeta]

No , Moro didn't absorb the god powers from Vegeta or Goku. Remember Vegeta powered down to base form after knocking Moro down to the ground in his evolved SSB. He was exhausted. Moreover when moro started absorbing power he can only absorb power from Vegeta's base form only. Also there is a minimum power requirement is needed for a saiyan to transform into a super saiyan and higher. Moro absorbed those power s only. And that's why they felt weak and didn't transform. I guess a namek healer or a senzu bean is needed to regain their full strength again . They can transform again after that.

[The gr]

While the action is amazing and is on par with Goku vs Zamasu and Goku vs Jiren however I feel like the narrative with Vegeta vs Moro is uninteresting compared to those battle.

I found this chapter to be average since I feel like this should be the beginning of the arc or this fight should have been for last month.

[Amir]

I hate the fact that a life energy from a planet used as offensive attacks could harm SSJ God Vegeta. He should have easily beaten that in base form. A planet energy is not anywhere near as powerful as Vegeta's base form.

Moro's magic is disappointing so far.. All he does is mild telekinesis (Frieza did it better) and absorption. The absorption itself is unique but it's still only a method to weaken your opponent so Moro can use regular melee attacks to win.

[louisascommie]

God I hope this leads to buu tapping into the sealing power and being the one to get the winning fight.

[Miracles]

But it's not an introduction, and we're well past the introductions. That's my point.

Remember that it was the previous chapter's cliffhanger that teased Moro's magic. There's no way in absolute hell anyone wasn't expecting more than what we got (e.g. a different application of his ability in the first chapter, but spammed over and over again) so the downsides are two-fold: on one hand, the reader is misled without any payoff, and on the other, the pacing and story structure are both horribly realized because their conflict has contributed nothing to the arc's characters and themes for SIXTY PAGES.

People can criticize the manga's Tournament of Power all they want, but that was a story. Real events were developing in every chapter, the plot progression wasn't insulting our time and there were substantial character beats all throughout. We're not getting that here.

Exactly. Moro's ability just being a rehash of his introductory powers, applied in a few different ways is a let down. It would of been fine if the absorbing was a main staple to power himself up and use that skill for different variations of magic. Since he is weakened, I guess we could still see this happen [Just like you stated]. However, I'm afraid that won't be the case since Toyotaro made Moro's absorbing ability also apply to our heroes. Removing god powers from Goku and Vegeta is a big plot device to help Moro cope with their power and gives the story a bigger excuse to use Dai Kaioshin. I believe this approach will stunt our characters growth in figuring out a way to fight Moro on their own in a unique way.

The only thing I could say for the overall plot progression so far is that Moro's wish is confirmed and more of Vegeta's development of him accepting his role as a good guy.

In fact, the solution of Goku and Vegeta will probably be to use the Dai Kaioshin, as Merus planned. But from this, we have several possibilities not only in relation to battles, but to the progress of history also

First, the consequences of taking Dai Kaioshin out of Boo's body. What will happen? Is Boo going to be totally evil again or is it going to turn out to be something we've never seen?

And even if Dai Kaioshin faces Moro, he would probably lose in a melee fight, so either way Goku and Vegeta will need a new way to face him long enough for Kaioshin to use his magic. Not to mention that, considering that Moro regains his youth and uses all his power, it is not guaranteed that Kaioken will be able to seal it again, which could also make the heroes defeat him differently

Consequences from taking Dai Kaioshin out of Buu? I Doubt it cause I don't remember the story ever questioning that to be a probability. Turning Buu evil is out of the question since evil Buu was already expelled from him. I agree with your latter portion about Dai Kai not being enough to handle Moro by himself. He will need Goku and Vegeta to fight alongside. Since Moro mentioned that this energy absorption is just a technique in his weakened state, maybe he might force Goku and Vegeta to come up with a battle strategy using various techniques...Or even force Goku to go Ultra Instinct.

No , Moro didn't absorb the god powers from Vegeta or Goku. Remember Vegeta powered down to base form after knocking Moro down to the ground in his evolved SSB. He was exhausted. Moreover when moro started absorbing power he can only absorb power from Vegeta's base form only. Also there is a minimum power requirement is needed for a saiyan to transform into a super saiyan and higher. Moro absorbed those power s only. And that's why they felt weak and didn't transform. I guess a namek healer or a senzu bean is needed to regain their full strength again . They can transform again after that.

Yes, no doubt Goku and Vegeta can transform again but I thought the story was clear. When Vegeta tried to go Blue he couldn't due to a great size of his power being absorbed. It is implied that god powers were absorbed but nothing stated it is permanent.

[TKA]

A planet energy is not anywhere near as powerful as Vegeta's base form.

Genki is not ki.

Genki, the energy used for the Spirit Bomb/Genkidama, is far stronger than ki. Everyone on Earth giving their energy to Goku was enough to annihilate Pure Buu. Goku drew genki from a dying planet and it was enough to nearly kill Frieza.

Genki is wild, my man.

[AnimeNation101]

A planet energy is not anywhere near as powerful as Vegeta's base form.

Genki is not ki.

Genki, the energy used for the Spirit Bomb/Genkidama, is far stronger than ki. Everyone on Earth giving their energy to Goku was enough to annihilate Pure Buu. Goku drew genki from a dying planet and it was enough to nearly kill Frieza.

Genki is wild, my man.

Namek wasn’t dying when he gathered the genki and then threw the Spirit Bomb. Pretty sure that was after.

[Son Dragon]

So after if/Moro is defeated, what are the chances of Goku using the Dragon Balls to ressurrect everyone Moro has killed throughout his appearance. Also wouldn't it mean cause more lifeforms to exist inside Universe 7. And would it be enough to raise Universe 7's Mortal Level?

Also is it possible to stop Moro with the Mafuba. Or are his abilities too dangerous all around?

[TKA]

Namek wasn’t dying when he gathered the genki and then threw the Spirit Bomb. Pretty sure that was after.

It's noted that Namek didn't have anywhere near the same amount of Genki that Earth had. In fact, Namek had so little genki that he had to start gathering from nearby planets too.

[Amir]

A planet energy is not anywhere near as powerful as Vegeta's base form.

Genki is not ki.

Genki, the energy used for the Spirit Bomb/Genkidama, is far stronger than ki. Everyone on Earth giving their energy to Goku was enough to annihilate Pure Buu. Goku drew genki from a dying planet and it was enough to nearly kill Frieza.

Genki is wild, my man.

I know. But Moro did not gather the Genki from 7 billion people this time, and even if he did, base Vegeta at this point should be on Kid Buu's level at least much less God. And it wasn't even enough to finish him. Goku had to go SSJ for the Genki Dama to work on Kid Buu.

[Sora Saiyan]

A planet energy is not anywhere near as powerful as Vegeta's base form.

Genki is not ki.

Genki, the energy used for the Spirit Bomb/Genkidama, is far stronger than ki. Everyone on Earth giving their energy to Goku was enough to annihilate Pure Buu. Goku drew genki from a dying planet and it was enough to nearly kill Frieza.

Genki is wild, my man.

This isn't correct. Ki is the combination of Genki, shouki, and yuuki. So Genki can not surpass Ki.
Toriyama actually stated such in the SEG.

What’s the secret of winning in battle?
When it comes to battle, the most important thing is ki size, and its control. Of course, “ki” also includes such spiritual power as energy/vigor [genki] and bravery [yuuki], and being in one’s right mind [shouki; could also be translated as "true character"] . There’s a limit to physical strength, no matter how much you toughen it up, and the only way to overcome that it is with “ki”. I think that it was through turning ki into formidable power that Goku drew closer to being the strongest warrior in the universe.

[Son Dragon]

I know. But Moro did not gather the Genki from 7 billion people this time, and even if he did, base Vegeta at this point should be on Kid Buu's level at least much less God. And it wasn't even enough to finish him. Goku had to go SSJ for the Genki Dama to work on Kid Buu.

If it helps I would consider comparing it to Trunk's Spirit Sword against Zamasu and Goku's Spirit Bomb against Jiren. Also because of several unknown factor Moro's ability could be more efficient with energy than the Spirit Bomb, and may even include something extra inside it as well. (In this case souls.) When Goku gathers energy his ability moves the planet and life form from its energy but it's never done so to extreme costs that it does with Moro's. It also not as raw, as coming directly from deep within the planet itself. Another thing I think worth considerimg beyond that is how the energy Moro is using also, forcefully includes the energy people which somehow include both Goku, and Vegeta.The spirit bomb however is voluntary energy. Even beyond that the Spirit Bomb also seems to use an alignment system, which could effect the type of boost it recieves, although maybe that's not as imporant. Something else worth noting might be the quality of the energy as well. During the chapter Moro states something along the lines of how the planet has fine energy indeed which could be a combination the different population and the planet, which was directly from scratch created by the dragon balls as oppose the original planet namek which had to grow into how it became. Other than that I think how the energy is being gathered might be important, with one having it taken through Ki Control and the other through Magic. At these are my general thoughts... Still all guesses though...

[TheSaiyanGod]

Exactly. Moro's ability just being a rehash of his introductory powers, applied in a few different ways is a let down. It would of been fine if the absorbing was a main staple to power himself up and use that skill for different variations of magic. Since he is weakened, I guess we could still see this happen [Just like you stated]. However, I'm afraid that won't be the case since Toyotaro made Moro's absorbing ability also apply to our heroes. Removing god powers from Goku and Vegeta is a big plot device to help Moro cope with their power and gives the story a bigger excuse to use Dai Kaioshin. I believe this approach will stunt our characters growth in figuring out a way to fight Moro on their own in a unique way.

The only thing I could say for the overall plot progression so far is that Moro's wish is confirmed and more of Vegeta's development of him accepting his role as a good guy.

In fact, the solution of Goku and Vegeta will probably be to use the Dai Kaioshin, as Merus planned. But from this, we have several possibilities not only in relation to battles, but to the progress of history also

First, the consequences of taking Dai Kaioshin out of Boo's body. What will happen? Is Boo going to be totally evil again or is it going to turn out to be something we've never seen?

And even if Dai Kaioshin faces Moro, he would probably lose in a melee fight, so either way Goku and Vegeta will need a new way to face him long enough for Kaioshin to use his magic. Not to mention that, considering that Moro regains his youth and uses all his power, it is not guaranteed that Kaioken will be able to seal it again, which could also make the heroes defeat him differently

Consequences from taking Dai Kaioshin out of Buu? I Doubt it cause I don't remember the story ever questioning that to be a probability. Turning Buu evil is out of the question since evil Buu was already expelled from him. I agree with your latter portion about Dai Kai not being enough to handle Moro by himself. He will need Goku and Vegeta to fight alongside. Since Moro mentioned that this energy absorption is just a technique in his weakened state, maybe he might force Goku and Vegeta to come up with a battle strategy using various techniques...Or even force Goku to go Ultra Instinct.

Well, Goku and Vegeta still have not agreed to take Dai Kaioshin out of Boo's body, so the consequences of it have not yet been discussed. Something different must happen, since the current state of Boo is basically due to the absorption of Kaioshin himself.

No , Moro didn't absorb the god powers from Vegeta or Goku. Remember Vegeta powered down to base form after knocking Moro down to the ground in his evolved SSB. He was exhausted. Moreover when moro started absorbing power he can only absorb power from Vegeta's base form only. Also there is a minimum power requirement is needed for a saiyan to transform into a super saiyan and higher. Moro absorbed those power s only. And that's why they felt weak and didn't transform. I guess a namek healer or a senzu bean is needed to regain their full strength again . They can transform again after that.

Yes, no doubt Goku and Vegeta can transform again but I thought the story was clear. When Vegeta tried to go Blue he couldn't due to a great size of his power being absorbed. It is implied that god powers were absorbed but nothing stated it is permanent.

In fact, Vegeta apparently could not even become a regular SSJ, implying that he just did not have enough energy instead of losing his God powers.

[Miracles]

In fact, the solution of Goku and Vegeta will probably be to use the Dai Kaioshin, as Merus planned. But from this, we have several possibilities not only in relation to battles, but to the progress of history also

First, the consequences of taking Dai Kaioshin out of Boo's body. What will happen? Is Boo going to be totally evil again or is it going to turn out to be something we've never seen?

And even if Dai Kaioshin faces Moro, he would probably lose in a melee fight, so either way Goku and Vegeta will need a new way to face him long enough for Kaioshin to use his magic. Not to mention that, considering that Moro regains his youth and uses all his power, it is not guaranteed that Kaioken will be able to seal it again, which could also make the heroes defeat him differently

Consequences from taking Dai Kaioshin out of Buu? I Doubt it cause I don't remember the story ever questioning that to be a probability. Turning Buu evil is out of the question since evil Buu was already expelled from him. I agree with your latter portion about Dai Kai not being enough to handle Moro by himself. He will need Goku and Vegeta to fight alongside. Since Moro mentioned that this energy absorption is just a technique in his weakened state, maybe he might force Goku and Vegeta to come up with a battle strategy using various techniques...Or even force Goku to go Ultra Instinct.

Well, Goku and Vegeta still have not agreed to take Dai Kaioshin out of Boo's body, so the consequences of it have not yet been discussed. Something different must happen, since the current state of Boo is basically due to the absorption of Kaioshin himself.

No , Moro didn't absorb the god powers from Vegeta or Goku. Remember Vegeta powered down to base form after knocking Moro down to the ground in his evolved SSB. He was exhausted. Moreover when moro started absorbing power he can only absorb power from Vegeta's base form only. Also there is a minimum power requirement is needed for a saiyan to transform into a super saiyan and higher. Moro absorbed those power s only. And that's why they felt weak and didn't transform. I guess a namek healer or a senzu bean is needed to regain their full strength again . They can transform again after that.

Yes, no doubt Goku and Vegeta can transform again but I thought the story was clear. When Vegeta tried to go Blue he couldn't due to a great size of his power being absorbed. It is implied that god powers were absorbed but nothing stated it is permanent.

In fact, Vegeta apparently could not even become a regular SSJ, implying that he just did not have enough energy instead of losing his God powers.

Moro stated he absorbed a "healthy portion" of their powers. Proof of that is when Vegeta couldn't go Blue when he tried. It emphasis what Merus was afraid of when facing Moro even more. Goku and Vegeta are pretty much in trouble.
Also, I think now that Goku and Vegeta grasp the real threat of Moro, they understand that they are going to need Dai Kai to handle him.

[God Gogeta]

I hate the fact that a life energy from a planet used as offensive attacks could harm SSJ God Vegeta. He should have easily beaten that in base form. A planet energy is not anywhere near as powerful as Vegeta's base form.

Moro's magic is disappointing so far.. All he does is mild telekinesis (Frieza did it better) and absorption. The absorption itself is unique but it's still only a method to weaken your opponent so Moro can use regular melee attacks to win.

Yes planet energy may be weak , but that energy and lava manipulated by beings stronger than SSG is in finitely faster and precise. Consider it like Ssj future Trunks using sword against frieza, a sword is nothing but the stronger and trained wielder makes the combination stronger.

[God Gogeta]

God I hope this leads to buu tapping into the sealing power and being the one to get the winning fight.

Yes, he will and ,Buu will get a huge power up to be on par with Goku on magical ability at least. Buu will use Grand Supreme Kai's power to seal the Moro along with the weird powers he inherited being a part of original Kid Buu for a long time,like unlimited healing and regeneration,etc. Good Buu is basically the Grand Supreme Kai himself with power ups. If he can remember his old self and get the glimpse of what Moro can do he surely will do anything to prevent that. This arc is mostly Buu arc and he will get more preference over saiyans.

[louisascommie]

God I hope this leads to buu tapping into the sealing power and being the one to get the winning fight.

Yes, he will and ,Buu will get a huge power up to be on par with Goku on magical ability at least. Buu will use Grand Supreme Kai's power to seal the Moro along with the weird powers he inherited being a part of original Kid Buu for a long time,like unlimited healing and regeneration,etc. Good Buu is basically the Grand Supreme Kai himself with power ups. If he can remember his old self and get the glimpse of what Moro can do he surely will do anything to prevent that. This arc is mostly Buu arc and he will get more preference over saiyans.

Or buu will awaken that power, be unable to handle but temporarily transfer it goku who can handle anything who then be the savoir of this arc. Thank toyo for this genius.

[AnimeNation101]

God I hope this leads to buu tapping into the sealing power and being the one to get the winning fight.

Yes, he will and ,Buu will get a huge power up to be on par with Goku on magical ability at least. Buu will use Grand Supreme Kai's power to seal the Moro along with the weird powers he inherited being a part of original Kid Buu for a long time,like unlimited healing and regeneration,etc. Good Buu is basically the Grand Supreme Kai himself with power ups. If he can remember his old self and get the glimpse of what Moro can do he surely will do anything to prevent that. This arc is mostly Buu arc and he will get more preference over saiyans.

Or buu will awaken that power, be unable to handle but temporarily transfer it goku who can handle anything who then be the savoir of this arc. Thank toyo for this genius.

I had a crack pot theory that Goku will allow Buu to absorb him in order to fight on par with Moro and eventually seal his powers away again and finish him off.