Unpopular DB opinions

[ABED]

Is Michael Wincott that actor who played the villain in The Crow?

I think Vollmer's voice has some natural rasp to it, but that's not where he awful performance is coming from, whereas I think Sabat's added rasp was holding back an otherwise very fitting voice for Piccolo.

[Kunzait_83]

Is Michael Wincott the villain from The Crow?

Damn right he was. And also one of the trio of bounty hunters from Dead Man. And the sleazy record producer from Strange Days. And the leader of the Betty Crew from Alien: Resurrection. etc. Great, underrated character actor.

[ABED]

Is Michael Wincott the villain from The Crow?

Damn right he was. And also one of the trio of bounty hunters from Dead Man. And the sleazy record producer from Strange Days. And the leader of the Betty Crew from Alien: Resurrection. etc.

That guy has an amazing voice. Damn good actor. I'd be interested to see him in a role that subverts the expectations of him being the villain.

I wonder why so many added the rasp. I kinda get Vegeta as it conveys a rougher quality to his character, but did the actors playing younger characters feel they had to add it to get their voices to sound youthful?

[MasenkoHA]

I wonder why so many added the rasp. I kinda get Vegeta as it conveys a rougher quality to his character, but did the actors playing younger characters feel they had to add it to get their voices to sound youthful?

Evidently, Nadolny was told by the voice director to make Gohan (at least “teen” Gohan) sound like Clint Eastwood.

Which gives some insight into the shitty voice direction I suppose.

[ABED]

I wonder why so many added the rasp. I kinda get Vegeta as it conveys a rougher quality to his character, but did the actors playing younger characters feel they had to add it to get their voices to sound youthful?

Evidently, Nadolny was told by the voice director to make Gohan (at least “teen” Gohan) sound like Clint Eastwood.

Which gives some insight into the shitty voice direction I suppose.

Interesting, where'd you hear/read that?

[MasenkoHA]

I wonder why so many added the rasp. I kinda get Vegeta as it conveys a rougher quality to his character, but did the actors playing younger characters feel they had to add it to get their voices to sound youthful?

Evidently, Nadolny was told by the voice director to make Gohan (at least “teen” Gohan) sound like Clint Eastwood.

Which gives some insight into the shitty voice direction I suppose.

Interesting, where'd you hear/read that?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h6t2KIC0UT4

[8000 Saiyan]

Michael Wincott is indeed a very good actor. Kinda wish he got better scripts to work with.

[Kunzait_83]

I wonder why so many added the rasp. I kinda get Vegeta as it conveys a rougher quality to his character, but did the actors playing younger characters feel they had to add it to get their voices to sound youthful?

I'm hardly near the expert in these matters as other folks around here generally are (I didn't grow up adoring and mainlining most of these kinds of cartoons): but from my understanding, it typically seems to be some kind of misbegotten attempt to convey a sense of "tough, edginess", which was the go-to norm of shitty kids' TV in the 90s, as they were basically lifting from what was then "hip" and trendy in 90s youth counter culture (which ultimately has its roots in 80s hardcore punk rock and skater culture), albeit HEAVILY filtered through a sterilized corporate lens.

Even with kid characters like Gohan: despite the character being written and portrayed in the original Japanese as a wilting flower of a pampered, babied, sheltered mama's boy (at least early on) and being Dragon Ball's overall representative of the classic "scholar" archetype from Wuxia, the FUNimation dub - in its zeal to be as 90s faux-hip and faux-edgy/extreme as bad children's TV would generally allow for at the time - also has to make him sound at least somewhat like a "tough, hard-edged, xtreme kid" (like you'd find maybe as a throwaway sidekick character on something like the 80s TMNT cartoon or whatever) when push ultimately comes to shove: to hell with how ill-fitting that general approach is to his core character and how beyond badly and glaringly it clashes with his visuals and overall root portrayal in the source material.

And hell, since we're in a generalized "bitching about unpopular opinions" thread, and I've already delved into shit as disparate as cool 90s character actors (that starred in a LOT of very R-rated movies) and bad corporate kids' TV trends, I may as well rope in something supremely irritating that's heavily related to both those things that has GNAWED at me throughout my time on this forum and its overall community.

I've been more and more these days making much more heavily explicit my issues with a lot of this community's overall hyper-focus and over-fixation on children's media at the expense of any real experience with or knowledge of non-children's media, and how that REALLY warps a LOT of people's views and opinions on these kinds of matters.

To that particular point, one of the absolute dumbest fucking thought-viruses that this forum has always generally been positively rife with is taking that basic understanding that "shitty kids' TV media of the 90s and early 2000s over-relied on badly mangled, played the fuck out, corporate-filtered riffs on 80s and 90s counter culture trends like things being 'grimdark', 'edgy' and 'extreme' and such" and going WILDLY overboard with backlashing against it by over-the-top in shitting on and ripping on literally ANYTHING that isn't inherently 100% featherweight, happy-go-lucky innocent and cutesy as pink picnic basket full of sunshine, rainbows, and Kirby and Pikachu plushies.

What I basically mean is, there's for some time now on certain corners of the internet like this one (since like... maybe the mid-2000s or thereabouts) this notion that "Well a LOT of bad kids' media we grew up with turned out to not age particularly well because they went too far pushing the whole 'grim & gritty and hardcore' angle: so we're basically going to act like ONLY the complete and utter exact OPPOSITE of that is the only thing that is ever valid from now on." And by doing so, COMPLETELY disregarding almost damn near ALL of art and media that is inherently of a darker, less happy or flowery tone or subject matter, including those which are NOT AT ALL for children, as well as TOTALLY unconnected whatsoever to any of the dumbfuck kids' cartoon TV trends of the 90s.

This has in many cases been taken to such a ludicrously idiotic point where I would literally see people (both from this forum, and in plenty of other internet venues elsewhere) actually hold up insipid crap like Hey Arnold, Rugrats, Pokemon, Digimon, and My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic as being innately more deeper, less shallow, more creatively worthwhile and intellectually nourishing as artistic works than things like Darren Aronofsky films, literature from writers like George Orwell and Franz Kafka, war documentaries, and anime like Grave of the Fireflies. No, that is NOT an exaggeration for effect, and this was stupefyingly, skin-crawlingly COMMONPLACE around places like this for quite some years not too terribly long ago.

The ONLY remote exceptions was stuff like Disney's Gargoyles and Bruce Timm's DCAU and whatnot: because those were literally some of the ONLY creative works of fiction that most people in these circles have generally seen that both aren't super featherweight light, while also not being a 100% 90s "edgelord" cringefest: because even all the way neckdeep up into their 20s, FAR too many people here couldn't generally be bothered to look into damn near ANY piece of media seriously for half a second that wasn't connected to some piece of kids' nostalgia nerd fluffery.

And thus, your odd Batman: TAS and the like would be some of the overall rare exceptions where the (incredibly minimal) levels of "darkness" wouldn't get immediately shot down as inherently unpalatable, and would be held up ridiculously as if they were somehow these incredibly unicorn-esque, Holy Grail/Ark of the Covenant-level rare artifacts that prove "MAYBE once and a great, great while something KINDA dark can potentially work, I guess: but only if you're a once-in-a-lifetime BRILLIANT tour-de-force auteur like Bruce Timm or Greg Weisman".

Basically to tl;dr sum up, this is what a LOT of internet nerd forums (particularly for anime and animation in general) looked like for a LOT of the last 15 someodd years:

"90s Xtreme on kids' shows and comics was really bad, ergo fuck ANY artistic work that isn't Care Bears-level soft and squishy. What? Kurt Vonne-who? Never heard of him, you sure you're not making him up? Slaughterhouse-WHAT?! That sounds like some REALLY shallow 'grimdark gritty' Liefeld-ian dumb shit from the 90s; I guarantee you it has NOTHING on the layered genius of stuff like Pokemon: The First Movie!"

Basically yeah: FUUUUUUUUUUCK this idiotic nonsense (which I must reiterate, fucking PLAGUED this place in a time not too terribly long ago, and among ostensibly grown-ass adults in their at least early-20s), and fuck the over-sheltered, media-insulated hypersensitivity and myopic slavery to "muh nostalgia for muh favorite kids cartoons" that lead to this being a thing for so long, and lead to me actually having to (on more than one occasion, mind you) EXPLAIN in stupid amounts of way-more-detail-than-should-be-humanly-necessary the precise reasons for exactly why a film like Rashomon is inherently of MUCH greater degrees of depth, historic significance, and overall artistic worth than something like the 2003 Teen Titans cartoon. Again, to grown-ass people in their 20s, or at the very least late-most teens.

This type of shit drove me absolutely BUGFUCK back in the day (to say nothing of helping to drive me away from this place for a number of years), and believe it or not it was where a LOT of my initial "surly old man" reputation around here initially originated from. Note: I was in my mid-20s at the time, and was considered "the cranky old man" of this place at the time because I, heaven forefend, had seen a Stanley Kubrick movie or two in my time and wasn't able to see the unbelievable, next-level breathtaking brilliance of Digimon: Tamers or Yu-Gi-Oh by comparison.

[ABED]

Interesting. Was my elementary school experience that different from many people? We were just as likely to talk about sitcoms like The Simpsons, Seinfeld, and Friends as we were BTAS and the shows on Nickelodeon. DBZ came later.

I get the appeal of nostalgia, even engaging in watching bad kids shows in adulthood, but for the love of god, call a spade a spade, and watch other age appropriate movies and TV shows.

[Kunzait_83]

Interesting. Was my elementary school experience that different from many people? We were just as likely to talk about sitcoms like The Simpsons, Seinfeld, and Friends as we were BTAS and the shows on Nickelodeon. DBZ came later.

I mean, you and I are roughly around the same age: and yeah, my elementary school experience contained SIGNIFICANTLY more nerding out about the newest Nine Inch Nails or Public Enemy album, or the newest Spike Lee or Tarantino movie than it ever did near-constant obsessing over what Power Rangers or Nickelodeon was up to at the time.

But apparently (and I'm going by a LOT of self-professed testimonials from a LOT of very notable old-school regulars here) there were a LOT of kids back then who were MASSIVELY over-shielded and helicopter parented from every looking for a microsecond at anything that wasn't strictly Disney or Nintendo approved-safe. And somehow a LOT of that habitually carried over well long into adulthood, to a point where a LOT of folks around here genuinely, legitimately never even THOUGHT to look more closely at a lot of non-children's material.

One notable Kanz figure (who's name I won't divulge) once put it to me like this (roughly paraphrasing from memory):

"In our minds it was like: that stuff is only for someone else over there. Its not for ME, because I was raised for so long and being SO used to avoiding it and being told 'that stuff isn't for you sweetie'."

Basically, there's a generation of roughly mid/late 90s to early 2000s kids who were SO hyper-shielded from EVERYTHING, that a LOT of that shielding apparently carried over into adulthood, even when out on their own, as almost a kind of habitual self-censorship that overrode any form of rebellion or even broad intellectual curiosity.

Fledgling parents among you, take this as a massive word of advice: do not shelter your fucking children. Vegas-odds probability is that they can likely handle a LOT more than you'd imagine they could, if you'd at least give them half a chance and just enough wiggle-room to actually explore their own boundaries for a bit, instead of having rigid, predetermined boundaries hyper-enforced upon them consistently throughout their upbringing (particularly in their most pivotal, formative years).

I get the appeal of nostalgia, even engaging in watching bad kids shows in adulthood, but for the love of god, call a spade a spade, and watch other age appropriate movies and TV shows.

If WAY more people in this community genuinely, sincerely followed that advice, it would likely cut a LOT of the stupidest arguments in this forum by at least maybe... I dunno, 60% at a bare minimum? Possibly/probably more?

The Wuxia thread almost CERTAINLY would've never needed to exist either.

[MasenkoHA]

Interesting. Was my elementary school experience that different from many people? We were just as likely to talk about sitcoms like The Simpsons, Seinfeld, and Friends as we were BTAS and the shows on Nickelodeon. DBZ came later.
.

I was in grade school in the late 90s to early 2000s and while the typical Toonami/Kidswb shows were super popular a lot of kids did watch stuff like The Simpsons as well.


I also see nothing wrong if you want to enjoy some shitty kidvid crap from your childhood (God knows I’m super guilty) but yeah definitely side with that adults shouldn’t hold the stuff they watched in 4th grade as the golden era of television.

[ABED]

I was born in 85. In other words, old enough to remember when The Simpsons was considered controversial and Bill Cosby would criticize it. Oh the irony. My parents always allowed my brother and I to watch R rated movies. That wasn't the norm, so while we saw Pulp Fiction the year it was released, my friends couldn't. However, as they grew up, their parents allowed them to watch more and more mature movies and TV shows, which they did. I thought that was the norm. I find this phenomenon you're talking about fascinating, sad but fascinating.

The Wuxia thread almost CERTAINLY would've never needed to exist either.

Is the assumption that if people weren't sheltered they would look into foreign genres?

[8000 Saiyan]

Am I the only here who hates "Yeah! Break! Care! Break!"? It's too cheesy IMO and even cheesier in English.

[ABED]

Am I the only here who hates "Yeah! Break! Care! Break!"? It's too cheesy IMO and even cheesier in English.

I'm sure you're not alone, but I find it catchy.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Am I the only here who hates "Yeah! Break! Care! Break!"? It's too cheesy IMO and even cheesier in English.

It's cheesy, but I like it a lot. Watching Kai for the first time (about 7 years ago now) was a magical experience. I hadn't seen the series in Japanese yet so seeing the Funi dub with more accurate scripts and characterizations opened my eyes to the real essence of what Dragon Ball was, and I have fond memories of everything about it, including the openings and endings.

[MasenkoHA]

.

The Wuxia thread almost CERTAINLY would've never needed to exist either.

Is the assumption that if people weren't sheltered they would look into foreign genres?

I’m kind of surprised given Wuxia’s influence on popular films like Kill Bill (which I assume a lot of people on here have seen?) and Dragon Ball itself that more people on here don’t seek out wuxia films to be honest.

Granted, I’m being hypocritical as the only wuxia film I ever sought out to watch was Bride with White Hair.

Am I the only here who hates "Yeah! Break! Care! Break!"? It's too cheesy IMO and even cheesier in English.

It’s just kind of a blandish standard Shonen ending song tbh.

I just really love Zenkai power though it is so anti-DBZ’s image in the USA so seeing it after watching an episode of the remastered dub when it was on Hulu gave me a thrill

[jjgp1112]

Interesting. Was my elementary school experience that different from many people? We were just as likely to talk about sitcoms like The Simpsons, Seinfeld, and Friends as we were BTAS and the shows on Nickelodeon. DBZ came later.
.

I was in grade school in the late 90s to early 2000s and while the typical Toonami/Kidswb shows were super popular a lot of kids did watch stuff like The Simpsons as well.


I also see nothing wrong if you want to enjoy some shitty kidvid crap from your childhood (God knows I’m super guilty) but yeah definitely side with that adults shouldn’t hold the stuff they watched in 4th grade as the golden era of television.

I was in grade school during the same time and South Park was all the rage at school, as was WWF at its raunchiest and filthiest. I myself had parents who didn't care too much about what I watched, although the filthier side of R-Rated movies was an obvious no-no for me. Many times I remember my dad either shrugging at some of the non-kid friendly stuff I'd watch or hell, taking me to see his type of stuff in theaters

Weirdly I've always been FAR more of a TV guy than a movie guy, and aside from Toy Story, Jurassic Park, and Space Jam, I haven't seen pretty much any of the movies my generation remembers the most fondly more than once or twice, definitely not to have much memory of them. I've never even seen Star Wars. The big cartoons on TV? Yeah. But I think enjoyed watching Nick at Nite a lot more, and that probably kickstarted my proclivity towards older media as I grew up. Even as a kid it was easy to dismiss the boom of CG animated movies in the 2000s as lowest common denominator drivel. Pretty much once you get past 2003 my knowledge of cartoons is zilch outside of a couple of anime. I think becoming so obsessed with DBZ and DBZ only saved me from the other crap out there It also helped that my best friend in high school was a massive film/television nerd so I started watching his type of stuff to try to keep up with him.

[MasenkoHA]

I was in grade school during the same time and South Park was all the rage at school, as was WWF at its raunchiest and filthiest. I myself had parents who didn't care too much about what I watched, although the filthier side of R-Rated movies was an obvious no-no for me. Many times I remember my dad either shrugging at some of the non-kid friendly stuff I'd watch or hell, taking me to see his type of stuff in theaters

I honestly don’t recall what was big in grade school outside whatever movie was out at the time.
By middle school South Park was definitely popular in 6th grade. And Family Guy caught on pre-revival syndicated Adult Swim

Weirdly I've always been FAR more of a TV guy than a movie guy, and aside from Toy Story, Jurassic Park, and Space Jam, I haven't seen pretty much any of the movies my generation remembers the most fondly more than once or twice, definitely not to have much memory of them. I've never even seen Star Wars. The big cartoons on TV? Yeah. But I think enjoyed watching Nick at Nite a lot more, and that probably kickstarted my proclivity towards older media as I grew up. Even as a kid it was easy to dismiss the boom of CG animated movies in the 2000s as lowest common denominator drivel. Pretty much once you get past 2003 my knowledge of cartoons is zilch outside of a couple of anime. I think becoming so obsessed with DBZ and DBZ only saved me from the other crap out there It also helped that my best friend in high school was a massive film/television nerd so I started watching his type of stuff to try to keep up with him.

The last kidvid thing I was into was Teen Titans 2003 cartoon which came out just after I finished 5th grade. I was more into reading Harry Potter than watching tv after that and the stuff I did watch was usually Nick@Nite reruns, Smallville and certain shows on Adult Swim but even in middle school I hated most of the Adult Swim output


And I definitely remember loathing whatever Disney was putting out during middle school.

And yeah DBZ was huge in grade school (I remember Freeza’s cyborg revival being the talk of the playground for a while when Toonami was promoting it)

[jjgp1112]

I was in grade school during the same time and South Park was all the rage at school, as was WWF at its raunchiest and filthiest. I myself had parents who didn't care too much about what I watched, although the filthier side of R-Rated movies was an obvious no-no for me. Many times I remember my dad either shrugging at some of the non-kid friendly stuff I'd watch or hell, taking me to see his type of stuff in theaters

I honestly don’t recall what was big in grade school outside whatever movie was out at the time.
By middle school South Park was definitely popular in 6th grade. And Family Guy caught on pre-revival syndicated Adult Swim

Weirdly I've always been FAR more of a TV guy than a movie guy, and aside from Toy Story, Jurassic Park, and Space Jam, I haven't seen pretty much any of the movies my generation remembers the most fondly more than once or twice, definitely not to have much memory of them. I've never even seen Star Wars. The big cartoons on TV? Yeah. But I think enjoyed watching Nick at Nite a lot more, and that probably kickstarted my proclivity towards older media as I grew up. Even as a kid it was easy to dismiss the boom of CG animated movies in the 2000s as lowest common denominator drivel. Pretty much once you get past 2003 my knowledge of cartoons is zilch outside of a couple of anime. I think becoming so obsessed with DBZ and DBZ only saved me from the other crap out there It also helped that my best friend in high school was a massive film/television nerd so I started watching his type of stuff to try to keep up with him.

The last kidvid thing I was into was Teen Titans 2003 cartoon which came out just after I finished 5th grade. I was more into reading Harry Potter than watching tv after that and the stuff I did watch was usually Nick@Nite reruns, Smallville and certain shows on Adult Swim but even in middle school I hated most of the Adult Swim output


And I definitely remember loathing whatever Disney was putting out during middle school.

And yeah DBZ was huge in grade school (I remember Freeza’s cyborg revival being the talk of the playground for a while when Toonami was promoting it)

Yeah, DBZ was huge. And the Adult Swim stuff like Family Guy and Futurama got popular around 2003 and I became a big fan of them, and they replaced Nickelodeon and the like for me.

[WittyUsername]

Interesting. Was my elementary school experience that different from many people? We were just as likely to talk about sitcoms like The Simpsons, Seinfeld, and Friends as we were BTAS and the shows on Nickelodeon. DBZ came later.

I get the appeal of nostalgia, even engaging in watching bad kids shows in adulthood, but for the love of god, call a spade a spade, and watch other age appropriate movies and TV shows.

That argument should apply to Dragon Ball as well, given that the series is squarely geared towards children.

I guess while we’re on the subject of people being blinded by nostalgia, shows like Batman: The Animated Series and Gargoyles really don’t hold up either. I have no clue why people pretend that schlock like that are any good. Don’t even get me started on Batman Beyond, which seemed like it was conceived of by a 15 year old who desperately wants to seem cool.