Vegeta's willful sacrifice still has payoff, I just think everyone misreads it as being in the explosion. That one is absolutely dishonest. There is no meaning behind sacrificing your life in a world you can be revived without any real cost. Boo danced on his god damn corpse.Tavarano wrote: In this case I was thinking of the narrative pointing out that Vegeta went too far and there's no redemption for him anymore to let him go later, it kind of has a cynical message again, as long as you are useful you can get away with anything, maybe that's what Toriyama was going for.
Now, sacrificing your own individuality in order to save the Earth while merging with your hated rival after being given a second chance only to learn first hand how utterly useless you were? Yeah, that's an honest character change moment. Vegetto wasn't ever gonna last, this much is obvious and even more so when you take a more cynical look at Toriyama's publishing schedule, as in, he likely was already writing them splitting by the time anyone even saw Vegeta being willing to fuse, but the intent is very much there.
That's possible, but the Genki Dama works as a much stronger thematic ending to Goku's character so I don't really care all that much about that slight incoherence.Goku didn't have to listen to Vegeta, regardless of thematic incoherence I consider it poorly written since genki dama is framed as a final attempt at defeating Boo, while they can just call Gohan and Gotenks in if it doesn't work.
Unlike the anime's numerous fuck ups in this part, while Goku is serious at the beginning, he is shown as coming to genuinely enjoying the fight against Boo, which makes total sense as he is the first fighter in the entire arc where Goku could sincerely cut loose.
Of course Toriyama wouldn't ever let his characters be happy, so Goku robs himself of the best fight in his life with SS3 (the tool that enabled said fight to begin with) and forces him to work with everyone else's power to finish off Boo.
When you pile in other events from the arc, such as:
- The implication that there isn't much else in heaven for him to surpass, or even if there was anything to begin with since Gohan is still the benchmark by the time he comes back to Earth (note: Goku is fully aware of what happens when Gohan cuts loose, yet still actively encourages him to get angry and unleash all that power, almost as if he wanted trouble to happen... );
- Vegeta being a total pushover at the end of the day and the kids either having no real desire for fighting despite all the power in the world being in their hands (which he does respect, but the mild disappointment is still very much present).
Yeah, it just had to end like it did. He just had to screw over Goku one last time to give the final push needed to end his story.
I am aware of that. The reason I generally ignore it is because not only it ignores Muten Roshi's role in Goku's training, it's horrendously dishonest to the very core of this story. Even when you strip everything out, Goku's goal of self improvement and desire to fight is always played in earnest. This, however, is not.Interestingly enough in the manga Roshi still had to teach Goku how to fight, perhaps something he came up with when the anime was already done with ToP.
Besides, it's also written in a painfully on-the-nose way. I don't really like using this phrase often but it screams of some fanfic-y shit where the writer doesn't have a grasp of why Goku ticks as a character and attempts to "fix" it. There isn't a hint of self awareness either and, imho, it's genuinely disgusting and alongside the Evil Dragons arc, the worst piece of content ever put out in this franchise.
With regards to Gohan, I think most people are just honestly reading too much into it. He just doesn't care about Gohan anymore. Even the stuff he did write with Gohan is largely harmless fluff. Him getting drunk and deflecting a shot at his wife has no real consequence. It's just funny seeing the nerdy guy shitfaced for once. F gives him a functional role, only stripping out Ultimate which was already gonna happen in BoG but fans whined about it.Makes sense, so basically his dissatisfaction with Goku's potrayal boils down to the fact that Toei wrote him as a character to sympathize with while he, like everyone else, are just meant to provide entertainment like he likes to say, he probably fucked Gohan extra hard in modern DB for the exact same reason he was dissatisfied with Goku.
Marron: マーロンHow similar are Maron and Marron in Japanese?
Kuririn's daughter has a longer sounding Ma.