College English Paper on DBZ

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College English Paper on DBZ

Post by NEG » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:54 pm

Greetings!

A few years back, a great friend of mine wrote, for his English final or something to that nature, a paper on DBZ. I was reminded of it today and decided to post it as it may...spark discussion? Well I certainly hope so!

(well, anything involving Frieza gets my vote always :wink: )


Preface
Funimation's translation is both praised and criticized for a number of reasons, but little attention is given to the effects their changes had on the literary aspects of the show. Its inconsistency with Toriyama's manga or Toei's adaptation is usually damned for destroying any artistic value the series had. But while Toriyama's original themes are no longer fully intact, few have noticed that Funi took the liberty of including their own themes, rewriting symbols and adding literary devices with, believe it or not, remarkable coherency.

The following is a paper I wrote for my college literature class, worth 100% of the final semester grade, which explores the major areas of value in Dragonball Z's dub up to the Frieza Saga under the premise that it ended there and with the presumption that Goku and Piccolo would've died if it actually had. I got a B. To make things easier, I referred to Toriyama as the sole author of the primary source rather than specifying additions from Toei or Funimation (my professor was confused enough already). Random people from Internet message boards are cited because it had to be a combination analysis/research paper and I could find no one in the halls of the learned who had written anything about this particular anime. Even if you can't bring yourself to recognize the effort and talent that Funimation's writers put into their localization, you can surely appreciate the hilarity of quoting such scholars as SSJ Cheesus and World Famous J. Triangles in a serious academic paper.

A Literary Analysis of Dragonball Z
Dragonball Z, Akira Toriyama’s most acclaimed work, is known for its memorable characters and intense action. Few, however, will look any deeper than its surface of showy fight scenes. Most readers believe that looking for meaning in a work such as Dragonball Z is “like looking for art in a child's scribbles” and that anything of value in the work is the result of “pure chance and not something the creator added on purpose”(SSJ Cheesus). Those that do believe some meaning was intended insist that it is limited solely to the themes surrounding combat and the human desire to ascend to new physical and spiritual levels. This is simply not the case. Beneath the veil of endless suspense and flashy battles are a number of clearly intended themes and symbols that most critics have overlooked. The prime example of the work’s literary worth is the Frieza Saga, originally intended to be the ending. In this saga can be found such themes as pride, the inherent purity of life, the inevitable ills of fighting, and the transient nature of worldly things, as well as symbols like tails and the Super Saiyan transformation.

The most obvious theme of Dragonball Z is pride. In fact, this subject is so implicit that critics have neglected discussing it at all. Perhaps its elementary presentation has led them to believe, rightly so, that it is a simple moral and unworthy of profound consideration. It is, however, a theme, and one that is undisputedly intentional among those who believe anything was intended in the work at all.

The first and most prominent example of pride is that of the Saiyan race. Their society was built on the foundation of physical strength, and pride in one’s strength came as naturally as breathing. A Saiyan without pride would be seen as weak hearted and a social outcast. Toriyama reminds us that pride demands constant exhibition to keep it satisfied by having the Saiyans follow the natural path of a warrior race: conquering other races. This ultimately leads to the destruction of their own civilization, demonstrating the foolishness of arrogance and the greed that comes with it.

The embodiment of the Saiyans’ pride is Vegeta, their prince. The strong dignity in which he holds his people is as evident as his own ego. In the end, however, he is forced to succumb to the lesson of his lost kingdom. Since his childhood, he believed that because of his royal blood he was destined to become the Super Saiyan of the prophecy and avenge his race. This misguided audacity leads him to a battle that he cannot win. But as he realizes his failure and sees his imminent death, he humbles himself before Goku, a low class soldier who’d humiliated him in battle. He proclaims Goku to be the Super Saiyan of legend and begs him to destroy the one who destroyed their world. Through this act of meekness, though it cost him his life, Vegeta overcomes the fatal weakness of his people and is redeemed. Toriyama uses Goku to express this. “Goku: Goodbye, Vegeta. You weren’t as coldhearted as you believed yourself to be. A heart of stone can’t shed tears like you did. You must’ve been holding them back your whole life”(Toriyama, End).

Vegeta also serves as a foil for Frieza. The icy tyrant’s airs and arrogance trump the prince’s by far. While Vegeta was able to find humility in the end, Frieza was committed to die rather than lose face. “Frieza: I’d destroy us both before I let you live”(Toriyama, Namek). Goku gave him several opportunities to walk away from a losing battle, but Frieza refused to let go of his dignity. Taking the theme to full fruition, he cuts himself in half with an attack he’d used in a proud rage. Goku had even warned him to dodge, but the ire created by his frustrated ego blinded him to it. Goku illuminates this theme’s climax when he says, “Goku: I wanted to save you Frieza, but you wouldn’t let me. And now you will have to share the fate of the planet Namek, which you yourself destroyed”(Toriyama, Defeated). This irony is the final, most potent demonstration of the results of pride.

A Saiyan’s tail symbolizes his/her pride, as well as the fury and bloodlust that come with it. Most readers would agree that “The saiyan tail was not only a huge power booster but it was also a symbol of pride and honor”(Asherman_00). In the story, tails increase overall strength and enable the Saiyan to transform into an enormous, raging beast. This holds true to the symbol. Power is what a Saiyan takes pride in to begin with, and the rampant nature of the transformation tails bring on relates to the rage that lost dignity, which would certainly be present if transforming were necessary, creates. The resemblance of the tail to that of an ape is meant to express the primal nature of such feelings. Goku is further evidence of this symbol. He had his tail removed as a boy and is the only Saiyan who, for the duration of time that tails are present, isn’t pompous, murderous, and occasionally blinded by anger.

The character Frieza presents his own message. In the early stages of his development, the galactic emperor is made out to be pure evil. He has horns, a pointy tail, red eyes, and kills his own servants for amusement, but this monster isn’t meant to be written off as the devil incarnate. Over the course of his development, Frieza takes on 4 physical forms. Each is more hideous and misanthropic than the last until he assumes his true form. In this final shape, his body is adorned with purple crystalline spots on the fronts of his appendages and the crown of his head, perhaps symbolizing his callous nature, though it’s most likely meaningless. His height is close to that of a normal human, and his appearance is sleek and aesthetically pleasing. The only repulsive aspect of him is his reptilian skin and tail. Some critics claim that the reasoning for this drastic change in physical evolution is to demonstrate that outward appearance is often deceptive. As Sheena McNeil of Sequential Tart writes, “Freeza's final form may be very anti-climatic, but as Piccolo says that's ‘a good example of why we shouldn't judge by appearances.’” Others believe that it’s merely a plot device to create a better-looking villain. These interpretations are plausible, but they fail to account for Frieza’s later development. The unexpected nature of this final transformation means exactly what it appears to: that Frieza is really more human than he first appeared. While he doesn’t show any change in character, he does say something very uncharacteristic as he’s dying:

Frieza: Please...have...mer...cy.

Goku: How many people beg for their lives at your feet, and you kill them anyway?! Did you show ME mercy when I asked you to spare my best friend Krillin?!

Frieza: Please?...Please?!...Forgive me.(Toriyama, Defeated)

A casual reader will argue that Frieza’s just trying to trick Goku into helping him so that he can strike back at him later, but Frieza wouldn’t be capable of such a display if it weren’t sincere. He would rather die than sacrifice his pride, as he demonstrates moments later by attacking Goku with half his body left. While he doesn’t apologize or show regret for what he did, he asks for Goku’s forgiveness. As the intended final villain of the Dragonball series, Frieza obviously represents evil, but after this display we’re meant to find something in him to pity or even sympathize with. Toriyama added this aspect of him not only to deepen the character, but also to offer that there is something worth preserving in all life, even the vilest.

Centered on the art of fighting, Dragonball expresses a great deal on the subject of conflict. Goku is the primary catalyst of this theme. Early in the series, he doesn’t take fighting seriously. Foes are just players in a game to him. They’re battled for recreation as much as for any other reason, and nobody ever really gets hurt. As he grows, he learns through suffering and self discipline that fighting is more than a pastime, but he still retains his Saiyan love of battle. As Shonen Anime’s “Analysis of Son Gokou” points out, “The most interesting aspect of Son Gokou's personality is how kind he is, yet how incredibly addicted he can be to fighting. While this obsession is neither sadistic nor masochistic, he constantly pushes himself to the point of breaking during a training session.” Not until the death of his childhood friend Krillin does he come to understand the inherently gruesome nature of combat. Most critics fail to recognize this message, focusing on ideas like determination and the human desire to ascend that surround the fighting. “No one gets struck by radioactive cannisters[sic] or is just born with their powers at their peak. Everyone trains nonstop and has an incredible work ethic”(World Famous J. Triangles). Concepts such as these are certainly present, but readers like Triangles miss the conclusion they lead to. Advancing from the light-hearted spirit of the story’s beginning, Dragonball ends by showing the horrifying and disheartening reality of fighting. Goku is finally able to leave his lifelong passion behind him and bring this theme to fulfillment as he walks from the dismembered body of Frieza. “Goku: I’m tired of fighting. I’m going home”(Toriyama, Defeated). Supplementing this idea, Christopher Anderson points out that at the end,
Nearly all the z-senshi are gone. Kurrurin, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Chauzou, and Vegita are all dead. The only people still alive are those who are minor characters, such as Muten-Roshi, Lunch, Yajirobee, and two major characters: Bulma and Gohan. And the only warrior strong enough to actually protect people from any serious threat is Son Gohan, the last of the Saiya-jin race and the one who is the most unlike them; he is peaceful, which gives an ironic and satisfying ending to the Saiya-jin race.
This further illustrates the negativity of living by the fist.
The most powerful symbol in Dragonball Z comes at the climax of the series, when Goku realizes the prophecy and becomes the legendary Super Saiyan. Surprisingly, critics have given it no attention outside of plot conjectures. Firm supporters of the meaningless Dragonball theory claim, “This is just a plot device to allow Toriyama to create bigger and better battles and blow-ups”(MattBrady). This notion is ridiculous considering the abundant evidence against it. It should be obvious that this long awaited transformation is intended to be a symbol.
Super Saiyan can be understood by simply looking at its physical attributes. When he transforms, Goku’s eyes turn green, he begins emitting light, and his hair and aura become golden-yellow and begin flowing upward in sharp tongues resembling fire. In Japan, green eyes are a rare sight because of genetics(Raza). They invoke an exotic and mysterious quality, and are commonly used as the eye color of heroes in Japanese entertainment. The resemblance of his hair to fire has a number of likely meanings, passion, power, anger, and cleansing among the most certain. Goku’s change in hair color is the most noticeable and revealing change. In Japanese mythology golden hair simply indicates something supernatural(Saiyan Link), but Toriyama intended more than that. He is referring to what the color golden-yellow symbolizes in traditional western literature: the link between Heaven and Earth. That, more or less, expresses what Super Saiyan is. It is the intervention of God or Fate to give us an extra push when our own hope and strength aren’t enough to overcome the forces of evil.

Vegeta’s inability to become the Super Saiyan supports this assertion. Shortly before his death, the Saiyan prince attempted to transform. Arcs of golden electricity surrounded him and his hair began to rise, but somehow he fell short of achieving the legendary state. In order to interpret the significance of this, we need to establish what is required to become a Super Saiyan. Most readers would agree with KingWolf that:
to[sic] become a Super Saiy-jin, one must have intense motivation/will or an extreme passion/desire. When Frieza killed Krillin, Goku's best friend, whom he has known since his beginnings of training back in the days of Dragon Ball, this sparked an overwhelming, shocking sensation in Goku. Frieza was a terrible menace at the time, and wanted to control the universe. Goku's rage and passion allowed him to break his current limits and become a Super Saiy-jin.

The failing of this theory is that Vegeta had received even more trauma from Frieza than Goku. His father, his people, and his whole life had been destroyed by the tyrannical monster. He’d been forced to swallow his pride and serve Frieza until he found a way to break free. Goku, on the other hand, only lost his best friend. Some argue that Vegeta wasn’t powerful enough to reach the transformation, but this, again, seems unlikely when considered with the sum of the evidence presented. Achieving the Super Saiyan status requires not simply rage or trauma, but purity as well. Vegeta’s sins and selfish nature held him back while Goku, whose innocence is constantly reaffirmed, was able to obtain the divine form. It certainly reasons that a heavenly link must be pure of heart. An ordinary power boost would have no such requirement.

The transformation itself presents more to contemplate. It comes immediately after the failure of the spirit bomb, which represents the united strength and hope of the universe. Krillin’s murder pushes Goku into a trance-like rage from which he emerges on a new level of might. But this power comes to him in an unfamiliar way. Unlike every previous power-up, Goku doesn’t scream as he summons it. He just stands brooding as the power comes to him. The weather takes on a new role as well. Bolts of unnaturally straight lightning, often used to symbolize the wrath and power of heaven, begin to rain in the background, connecting the sky with the ground (or linking Heaven and Earth). Lastly, during the final moment of the transformation, Goku’s cornea disappear, leaving his eyes immaculately white for an instant. All of these factors point to a celestial occurrence.

What is perhaps the most compelling confirmation of this symbol comes from Goku’s lips. There is a drastic change in his personality following his ascension to the Super Saiyan form. He becomes remarkably self-righteous and preaches to Frieza in a lofty, almost biblical way, trying to convince him of the error of his ways.

Goku: You can destroy planets, but you can never destroy what I am friend.

Frieza: You...what...what are you?!

Goku: I am the hope of the universe. I am the answer to all living things that cry out for peace. I am protector of the innocent. I am the light in the darkness. I am truth...ALLY TO GOOD, NIGHTMARE TO YOU!(Toriyama, Explosion)

Goku has never taken such an attitude with his enemies before. The wording of this quote suggests that, just as he was gifted with holy power, he has been infused with a divine persona. Another explanation offered is that of the character Master Roshi.

Roshi: Having the kind of power that I’m talking about is uncharted territory for Goku. He’s never experienced anything like it, that much I can guarantee. Yes sir, a power of this magnitude could overwhelm a man and change him forever.(Toriyama, Explosion)

Some readers use this to explain all of the psychological changes Goku undergoes. The problem with that explanation is that it’s never happened before. Throughout his life, Goku has gotten stronger by the day. He went from being an unusually strong boy to being able to blow up planets. During this constant increase, he didn’t change at all. In becoming a Super Saiyan, the only tangible power he gains is the ability to defeat Frieza. This is a relatively insignificant step. The last and commonly accepted theory is that Goku’s rage over Krillin’s death influenced him. This, however, doesn’t account for his peculiar claim to be light and truth. The only viable answer is that, while his rage is clearly still present and driving him to fight, Goku’s speeches and actions insist that something new and heavenly is now present within him. Considering all of these factors, it is certain that Super Saiyan is not an anger stoked power trip, but a divine transformation symbolic of God or Fate’s intervention in times of need.
Another point students of this work have overlooked is the full significance of Frieza’s death. A great deal of attention is placed on the fact that Goku, despite his many battles, has retained his child-like innocence. Throughout Dragonball Z, Goku spares every enemy he faces despite the threats they pose. Chichi words it well in a memorable and ironic line. “Chichi: Well let me tell you something about my Goku! He has never hurt anybody in his entire life. He’s like an angel...and angels don’t die, do they?”(Toriyama, Gohan). Frieza foreshadows Goku’s coming failure again, focusing on his bloody ancestry to question his purity.

Frieza: Why do you loath what I’ve done so much? Saiyans are just as ruthless as I am. They were killers, all of them! And you have the gall to condemn what I’ve done? You and your bloodthirsty race!

Goku: They paid for their mistakes!

Frieza: Is that why they died? I thought it was because I killed them.

Goku: You’re just a beast, with no conscience!

Frieza: Ahahahahahaha! So I’m a beast, huh? Oh, and what about you mister Super Saiyan? Aren’t you just like me?

Goku: ...Hm.

Frieza: So the jury’s still out on that one. Let’s just give it a little more time.(Toriyama, Explosion)

Both of these quotes return to mind at the end. Goku makes a clear decision to spare Frieza’s life by giving energy to the cold-blooded emperor after he had cut himself in half. But moments later, as Frieza fires an energy beam in a last ditch effort at victory, Goku repeals his mercy. Though Frieza’s attack was insignificant and could easily have been ignored, Goku fired back and obliterated him. The episode is entitled “Mighty Blast of Rage”, and this is what it refers to. Goku’s frustration with Frieza’s obstinate unwillingness to change erupted in a rash act of violence. As the dust settles Toriyama focuses on Goku’s outstretched hand, which falls to his side and trembles before forming a resolute fist. This conveys that Goku’s hands are no longer clean. He has sinned and is therefore no longer worthy of the gilded form, so it is taken away from him through death. Just like the original Super Saiyan of legend, his rage destroys him. This expands both the themes of pride and conflict, offering that both inevitably lead to sin.

At the end of the story, the Dragonballs and all of the powerful warriors are gone. The parting message that Toriyama leaves us with is that nothing lasts forever. We can’t depend on things like Goku and the Dragonballs because they won’t always be there. We must place our faith in the things that endure, such as love, courage, determination, and hope. Heroes die, but the things that made them heroes live forever.

Akira Toriyama’s Dragonball Z is an excellent reminder that things are not always what they appear to be. Hidden within the violent and eye catching brawls is a myriad of literary value. A work of literature, like anything else in life, should not be judged at face value. Without sincere consideration, great contributions can go unheard for ages.


Works Cited

Asheman_00. “RE: Dragon Ball Z/GT Super Saiyans (theory).” Online posting. 30 Jan.

2003. Gameshark Boards. 5 May 2004 <http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:S

WDGDLyT33IJ:boards.gameshark.com/Anime_o_O/b10461/14736916/%3F26+Saiyan+tail+symbol&hl=en>.

“Analysis of Son Gokou.” Shonen Anime 25 Mar. 2004 <http://www.shonenanime.com/

sa.php?sa=analysissongokou.shtml>

Anderson, Christopher. “Should Toriyama have called it quits sooner?” Daizenshuu EX 3

Apr. 2000. 25 Mar. 2004 <http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~vegex/interaction/

editorials/old_dex/12.shtml>

KingWolf. “Re: I'm still writing my final paper on DBZ, and I still need your opinions to

do it.” Online posting. 22 Mar. 2004. GameFAQs. 22 Mar. 2004 <http://www.

geocities.com/spa_comics/DBZ.htm>.

MattBrady. “Your manga minute: Dancing with the balls.” Online posting. 3 Mar. 2004.

NEWSARAMA. 25 Mar. 2004 <http://newsarama.com/forums/

showthread.php?s=&threadid=9985>.

McNeil, Sheena. Rev. of Dragon Ball Z Vol. 10, by Akira Toriyama. Sequential Tart 1

Apr. 2003. 1 May 2004 <http://www.sequentialtart.com/reports.php?ID=2024&

issue=2004-04-01>.

Raza. “Genetics: Eye color.” Online posting. 5 Feb. 2003. About.com. 4 May 2004

<http://experts.about.com/q/1795/2780251.htm>

Saiyan Link. “Re: I'm still writing my final paper on DBZ, and I still need your opinions

to do it.” Online posting. 24 Mar. 2004. GameFAQs. 25 Mar. 2004 <http://www.

geocities.com/spa_comics/DBZ.htm>.

SSJ Cheesus. “Re: I'm still writing my final paper on DBZ, and I still need your

opinions to do it.” Online posting. 25 Mar. 2004. GameFAQs. 25 Mar. 2004

<http://www.geocities.com/spa_comics/DBZ.htm>.

Toriyama, Akira. “The End of Vegeta.” Dragonball Z: Frieza – Death of a Prince. DVD,

VHS. Trans. Funimation Productions, LTD. Bird Studio/Shueisha, Toei

Animation, 1999.

Toriyama, Akira. “Explosion of Anger.” Dragonball Z: Frieza – Super Saiyan Goku.

DVD, VHS. Trans. Funimation Productions, LTD. Bird Studio/Shueisha, Toei

Animation, 1999.

Toriyama, Akira. “Namek’s Destruction.” Dragonball Z: Frieza – Eleventh Hour. DVD,

VHS. Trans. Funimation Productions, LTD. Bird Studio/Shueisha, Toei

Animation, 1999.

Toriyama, Akira. “Gohan Returns.” Dragonball Z: Frieza – Eleventh Hour. DVD, VHS.

Trans. Funimation Productions, LTD. Bird Studio/Shueisha, Toei Animation,

1999.

Toriyama, Akira. “Frieza Defeated!!” Dragonball Z: Frieza – Fall of a Tyrant. DVD,

VHS. Trans. Funimation Productions, LTD. Bird Studio/Shueisha, Toei

Animation, 2000.

World Famous J. Triangles. “Wow.” Online posting. 3 Mar. 2004. NEWSARAMA. 25

Mar. 2004 <http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread. ... eadid=9985>.
The link to the paper is here, but be warned as its a geocities site, 10 page views or so makes it go BOOM, or at least it often feels that way:

http://www.geocities.com/spa_comics3/DBZpaper.html
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Post by MajinVejitaXV » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:57 pm

The only thing I'll throw out there is that the quotes should be credited to FUNimation's writers, since a good deal of them are nowhere near what was said in Toriyama's text (i.e. - "Ally to good!" etc.).

-Corey

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Post by NEG » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:46 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:The only thing I'll throw out there is that the quotes should be credited to FUNimation's writers, since a good deal of them are nowhere near what was said in Toriyama's text (i.e. - "Ally to good!" etc.).

-Corey
He mentioned at the start that quoting more then simply saying Toriyama would be confusing for the professor.
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Post by omegacwa » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:13 pm

I liked it. It was definitely well thought out. He also picked good quotes from the funi dub, I was a bit nervous that "Pop goes the weasel" would slip in. But wasn't that removed in the redub? I can't remember.

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Post by MajinVejitaXV » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:16 pm

NEG wrote:He mentioned at the start that quoting more then simply saying Toriyama would be confusing for the professor.
Ah, understandable. In either case, I'll read it at another time.

-Corey

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Post by Duo » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:00 pm

Very well written. I'm no fan of FUNImations dub, but your friend used the materials extremely well, and I very much enjoyed this analysis of the plotlines of the Freeza Arc.

I don't suppose I have anything particularly useful to add (at the moment). But it was great to read.

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Post by NEG » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:06 pm

Lovely, I'll be passing the words (well, the thread) along to him.

Cheers guys
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Post by caejones » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:44 pm

... That should win a prize. Or at least a spot in a magazine or something. Swift, indeed!
When the Freeza Saga ending scenario is put like that, it makes me think of Buddhist themes as well... Hmm.
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Post by Tanooki Kuribo » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:57 pm

I'am shocked somtimes at the lenghts people go to explaine and dissect this show.

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Post by raz1337 » Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:22 am

It was well written, and it touched on a great deal of aspects of the show. I was surprised by the way in which Goku's initial Super Saiyan transformation was described. I was even more surprised that the posts following the original post didn't comment on that, because I was under the impression that that part of the show was significantly different from the original. It is merely an inference, though.

Since he got a B, I'd be interested in the teacher's critique of it. A paper that dissects something to this magnitude would've, in my opinion, been more interesting if it focused on the character development of Vegeta over the course of the entire series.

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Post by Arcwave » Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:48 am

Wow! That was very impressive. Great vocab choice toward the end... he got an A+, right? Hehe. 8)
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Post by Lavender Saiyan » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:28 am

One thing that I don't understand by this paper is him constantly reffering to the gang as dead. I relize he specifically mentions that he's writing the paper as though the series ended there. But regardless of if the series ended there. They still had the DragonBalls and would have revived everyone.
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Post by NEG » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:27 pm

Lavender Saiyan wrote:One thing that I don't understand by this paper is him constantly reffering to the gang as dead. I relize he specifically mentions that he's writing the paper as though the series ended there. But regardless of if the series ended there. They still had the DragonBalls and would have revived everyone.
Indeed, but the plot device was so...lacking, imo. Not answering for my friend but:

1)Oh! The dragon balls followed us from space.
2)They can revive anyone ANY number of times as long as its not a natural death!
3)Did you die in space? No worries! Just move your spirit back to earth, then ask for your body. Whoop doo!
4)Goku is not dead! Despite the "DAMN IT ALL TO HELL BLAARGGG WAAAHHH" moment. Later explained by "transportation" move "mysteriously" learned in Space!

::cue canned laughter at all of the above::

Sorry, but to solve everything like that was...yeah, not swell. Much like a lot of things after the Frieza saga, the things AT wrote as plot points and solutions can be cringeworthy at times. Heres some others:

1)Suddenly children, despite having one-tenth of saijen blood, can turn Super without any need for anger and be a match for anything.

2)Frieza being sliced. No other villian in the series is given that treatment. Punch him to death, blow him up, give him a deadly kiss for all I care, but slice him in half? And then we don't see it slice anything ever again. Que fight against sword vs Goku's finger.

3)Cell himself was a good concept because it's technically doable plotwise despite me not have wanting the show to go on. A being with all the knowledge of all the fighters, including Frieza. Nice. But the androids? They wern't needed at all. The concept of them being stronger then the strongest being in the universe and the average Super Saijan = sigh

4)Big ball of evil chewing gum (Buu) blows up everything due to being insane. Has no personality. Screams a lot. And gets beaten by a spirit bomb after endless amount of episodes of them fighting this chewing gum. Not even Frieza got beaten by the spirit bomb.

5)Gohan despite being shown as getting stronger and stronger throughout the series, mellows out of sorts by the end. How...erm...uneventful. And eaten by chewing gum, while we're at it. Is that really how AT would have wanted to represent Gohan from the start to end? Yeah right.


I'm not here for a flame war, I'm not here to represent and force opinion of what should or should not have happened, I'm just stating the little things that, for me as a DBZ fan, annoyed me as the series went on past the Frieza saga, and I'm sure my friend feels the same way (but he can probably word it better then I have).

I'll ask my friend for how he would have wanted it to end when it comes to the dragon balls themselves. I'd think tien/Kuririn/chowsu would have been let off and brought back to life, but if we're assuming by the paper that Piccallo is dead...that would mean no dragon balls. Unless they used the namek balls, in which case, they wouldn't have super crazy awesome powers...but considering it was already shown on namek that they did...

Or maybe he wanted everyone dead. Period. Ho hum. (besides the side charecters mentioned).

DRAGON BALL Z UNCUT REMASTERED EDITION = NOW WITH EVEN MORE SCENES OF NAMEK GETTING READY TO BLOW UP!

Couldn't resist...
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Post by Rocketman » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:41 pm

NEG wrote:Later explained by "transportation" move "mysteriously" learned in Space!
Actually, it was explained by Goku, despite us seeing him screaming as the planet erupted under him, suddenly having enough time to notice a Ginyu Force pod, fly to it, get in and activate it.

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Post by Lavender Saiyan » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:08 am

Hey, you're entitled to your opinion, but I still need to make some tiny rebuttles.
1)Suddenly children, despite having one-tenth of saijen blood, can turn Super without any need for anger and be a match for anything.
We don't actually know that for a fact...And they were 1/4 Saiyan.
2)Freeza being sliced. No other villian in the series is given that treatment. Punch him to death, blow him up, give him a deadly kiss for all I care, but slice him in half? And then we don't see it slice anything ever again. Que fight against sword vs Goku's finger.
In a side note...Super Buu was cut in half by Gotenks through a filler scene. Then in the Dub, Goku comments that he hadn't heard of anyone being sliced in half since Trunks beat Freeza. But that aside...What's wrong with sliced in half? It's mixing things up...Would you have really rathered a sterotypical DBZ blast them to death scene? Come on, this was unique...It sets it apart.
4)Big ball of evil chewing gum (Buu) blows up everything due to being insane. Has no personality. Screams a lot. And gets beaten by a spirit bomb after endless amount of episodes of them fighting this chewing gum. Not even Freeza got beaten by the spirit bomb
But there have always been high personality villains...What's wrong with one plain monster villain?
5)Gohan despite being shown as getting stronger and stronger throughout the series, mellows out of sorts by the end. How...erm...uneventful. And eaten by chewing gum, while we're at it. Is that really how AT would have wanted to represent Gohan from the start to end? Yeah right
Can't say that I disagree there...I'm more partial to Cell Era Gohan...Didn't like him later on...But I do think that Gohan's end was a good one...He finally made the transition to pretty calm, cool, and collected warrior after his power up...Though he did lose. Then afterwards, he moves out of his fathers footsteps of living his life as a fighter and becomes a scholar...(And does Scholarly things)
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Post by NEG » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:34 am

Reported back. Here we go:

Me:

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... 993#158993

Your words about the ending in that same thread about your essay would be nice, Frieza. Someone does make a good point, the dragon balls ARE still there at the end...sort of.

Friend:

Not if Frieza killed Piccolo. If he died there, Earth's dragonballs would disappear and they wouldn't be able to wish Guru back to life. They'd all be gone for good. In that scenario I admit it would seem pretty strange and depressing that the dead Z fighters who'd been training with King Kai would never be able to come back, but it adds to the somber theme of the results of a life of fighting. And even when they did come back they never really fought again, so that whole side plot was a waste either way.

On the subject of the spirit bomb, the one that hit Frieza was actually created from the entire universe according to the sub. The dub said it was just the stars of Namek. Now that I know, it feels like a much more perfect final battle.
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Post by NEG » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:58 am

In a side note...Super Buu was cut in half by Gotenks through a filler scene. Then in the Dub, Goku comments that he hadn't heard of anyone being sliced in half since Trunks beat Freeza. But that aside...What's wrong with sliced in half? It's mixing things up...Would you have really rathered a sterotypical DBZ blast them to death scene? Come on, this was unique...It sets it apart.
It was certainly unique, I just feel it was cheap compared to imagining what would have happened in Trunks timeline when he wasn't there. Aka lets say...Vegeta fighting Frieza again. Or Goku getting back in time to stop Frieza, that sort of thing would have been exciting, wish they'd included it in the Trunks special or even made its own special.
there have always been high personality villains...What's wrong with one plain monster villain?
Nothing, it just (as usual for the anime) dragged on the fights needlessly. Or maybe that was because the fights themselves were boring? Either way the lack of real reasoning behind Buu's madness and wanting do destroy things made all the battles past fat buu seem a yawnfest.

The whole fat buu backstory where he'd eaten all the good kais and whatnot was intresting though, I guess. It also didn't help that the Z fighters were having a **** flopping contest trying to become stronger then each other, be it by fusioning together or having even longer golden hair!! = SS3!1!1OMG!
The Bibidi/Babidi/tourny stuff did make a nice change though, yeah. A guy who attacks by spitting at you, hoho! Kind of became sick of Hercule though.

As a saga it was worse then Cell, and nowhere near close to anything before that, imo.
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Post by Lavender Saiyan » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:09 am

It was certainly unique, I just feel it was cheap compared to imagining what would have happened in Trunks timeline when he wasn't there. Aka lets say...Vegeta fighting Freeza again. Or Goku getting back in time to stop Freeza, that sort of thing would have been exciting, wish they'd included it in the Trunks special or even made its own special.
Well, we do know that Goku used his Instant Transmission to get there in time in Trunks time.
Not if Freeza killed Piccolo. If he died there, Earth's dragonballs would disappear and they wouldn't be able to wish Guru back to life. They'd all be gone for good. In that scenario I admit it would seem pretty strange and depressing that the dead Z fighters who'd been training with King Kai would never be able to come back, but it adds to the somber theme of the results of a life of fighting. And even when they did come back they never really fought again, so that whole side plot was a waste either way.
But the fact is, Piccolo DID hold on. I doubt Toriyama was planning anything originally where Piccolo dies and the wish cannot be made to revive the Namekians.
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Post by NEG » Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:45 am

But the fact is, Piccolo DID hold on. I doubt Toriyama was planning anything originally where Piccolo dies and the wish cannot be made to revive the Namekians.
He's not saying he did.
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