Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Sora Saiyan]

Hmmmm i see it now. I thought maybe it was much closer to his throat, but the old Moro has hair on his chin indeed. Makes you wonder how the Kaioshins were even able to survive against this dude at max power. I guess it’s just bad writing then.

Yeah, how DID the Kaioshin survive against him at max power??

It appears that Moro wasn't going straight for the kill. He's got a big grin on his face throughout the fight, when he powers up from absorbing that planet he narrowly misses them with that lightning looking energy even though they were standing in place, and when he lands he just stands there and lets Dai-Kaioshin charge up an attack.
Honestly he seems like the kind of character that would toy with people when he's at max power. Right now he's got a goal, but once that's gone I wouldn't be surprised at all if he just fucks about with his challengers. It's quite a generic villain move.

[HeroR]

How much stronger do you guys think Goku & Vegeta got from the start of the ToP to the Broly film (outside of new transformations)?

It's impossible to say since we can only scale Goku and Vegeta to Broly, and we don't know how Broly scales to Jiren or Beerus. In the movie, the best we got is that he 'could' be stronger than Beerus. In promotions, they say Broly is the strongest enemy they faced to date, which runs contrary to the movie where it's left vague.

[Zamasu55]

How much stronger do you guys think Goku & Vegeta got from the start of the ToP to the Broly film (outside of new transformations)?

It's impossible to say since we can only scale Goku and Vegeta to Broly, and we don't know how Broly scales to Jiren or Beerus. In the movie, the best we got is that he 'could' be stronger than Beerus. In promotions, they say Broly is the strongest enemy they faced to date, which runs contrary to the movie where it's left vague.

Broly's PROBABLY stronger than Beerus. Not could be, he probably is.

[ZombieVito]

Well, South Supreme Kai could fight and even pushed Kid Buu, meaning that he was at least as strong as Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

I wouldnt go that far. We never saw the fight in canon and in the anime he was one shotted by a kick.

No he wasn’t.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lxRb7h7xqHA

He was hurt, but definitely not ‘one-shotted’. That and even in the manga, he was worthy of being absorbed instead of killed unlike the other Kais.

He clearly gets damaged a lot by a single kick. He's not on Goku's level at all.

[HeroR]

I wouldnt go that far. We never saw the fight in canon and in the anime he was one shotted by a kick.

No he wasn’t.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lxRb7h7xqHA

He was hurt, but definitely not ‘one-shotted’. That and even in the manga, he was worthy of being absorbed instead of killed unlike the other Kais.

He clearly gets damaged a lot by a single kick. He's not on Goku's level at all.

He took several attacks before that single kick and in the manga, Super Saiyan 3 Goku was breathing hard after fighting Buu for what a few minutes.

And even then, it wasn't an one-shot as you stated in your original post.

[ZombieVito]

No he wasn’t.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lxRb7h7xqHA

He was hurt, but definitely not ‘one-shotted’. That and even in the manga, he was worthy of being absorbed instead of killed unlike the other Kais.

He clearly gets damaged a lot by a single kick. He's not on Goku's level at all.

He took several attacks before that single kick and in the manga, Super Saiyan 3 Goku was breathing hard after fighting Buu for what a few minutes.

And even then, it wasn't an one-shot as you stated in your original post.

No. The fight doesn't have cuts. He just received 1 hit and could barely stand up.

[HeroR]

He clearly gets damaged a lot by a single kick. He's not on Goku's level at all.

He took several attacks before that single kick and in the manga, Super Saiyan 3 Goku was breathing hard after fighting Buu for what a few minutes.

And even then, it wasn't an one-shot as you stated in your original post.

No. The fight doesn't have cuts. He just received 1 hit and could barely stand up.

He was hit more that once as seen right here: https://youtu.be/lxRb7h7xqHA?t=75. He took a knee to the back and barely flinched. He also took a sledgehammer to the shoulder before he grabbed Buu and head butted him. So it wasn't just 'one kick', which was to the back of the neck of all things, which would actually knock a person out in real life.

[SupremeKai25]

Zamasu and South Supreme Kai certainly prove that the Kais are not just pushovers, and with time a Kai could even rise to the power of a Destroyer. I think that it's interesting how a benevolent and passive race of deities tasked with creation also has a few individuals who possess a lot of destructive power.

I wonder if there was truth in Goku's statement regarding Zamasu. If he had never gone mad and had kept training (the Kais can live up to 75.000 years, mind you), who knows if he would have been able to rival a Destroyer one day. Maybe one of the weaker ones like Sidra.

[ZombieVito]

He took several attacks before that single kick and in the manga, Super Saiyan 3 Goku was breathing hard after fighting Buu for what a few minutes.

And even then, it wasn't an one-shot as you stated in your original post.

No. The fight doesn't have cuts. He just received 1 hit and could barely stand up.

He was hit more that once as seen right here: https://youtu.be/lxRb7h7xqHA?t=75. He took a knee to the back and barely flinched. He also took a sledgehammer to the shoulder before he grabbed Buu and head butted him. So it wasn't just 'one kick', which was to the back of the neck of all things, which would actually knock a person out in real life.

Fine, 2 hits.

Like that makes any real difference.

[HeroR]

No. The fight doesn't have cuts. He just received 1 hit and could barely stand up.

He was hit more that once as seen right here: https://youtu.be/lxRb7h7xqHA?t=75. He took a knee to the back and barely flinched. He also took a sledgehammer to the shoulder before he grabbed Buu and head butted him. So it wasn't just 'one kick', which was to the back of the neck of all things, which would actually knock a person out in real life.

Fine, 2 hits.

Like that makes any real difference.

It does since you're the one who specifically said 'one-shot' and kept saying it even when I pointed out it wasn't a one-shot. So yeah, you were wrong.

And he still took hits from Buu, including one that would actually knocked out a normal person. Like how many people in Dragon Ball got knocked out because they took an attack to the neck.

[Kenneth La Torre]

How much stronger do you guys think Goku & Vegeta got from the start of the ToP to the Broly film (outside of new transformations)?

It's impossible to say since we can only scale Goku and Vegeta to Broly, and we don't know how Broly scales to Jiren or Beerus. In the movie, the best we got is that he 'could' be stronger than Beerus. In promotions, they say Broly is the strongest enemy they faced to date, which runs contrary to the movie where it's left vague.

Probably is. In this case those simple words matter a lot.

But in a general scaling. Beerus, Broly, and jiren are so far the Top Dogs goku and vegeta have currently faced.

[HeroR]

How much stronger do you guys think Goku & Vegeta got from the start of the ToP to the Broly film (outside of new transformations)?

It's impossible to say since we can only scale Goku and Vegeta to Broly, and we don't know how Broly scales to Jiren or Beerus. In the movie, the best we got is that he 'could' be stronger than Beerus. In promotions, they say Broly is the strongest enemy they faced to date, which runs contrary to the movie where it's left vague.

Probably is. In this case those simple words matter a lot.

But in a general scaling. Beerus, Broly, and jiren are so far the Top Dogs goku and vegeta have currently faced.

Honestly it doesn't since what does Goku knows about Beerus' full power? Especially when we have this gem: https://youtu.be/8qFcM2WyMIE?t=35

Doesn't hold back in his sleep, so how is Goku and Vegeta still alive after taking kicks from Beerus?

[Hugo Boss]

what does Goku knows about Beerus' full power?

Nothing whatsoever, but he had seen a God of Destruction fighting seriously. Goku probably thinks Beerus is about as strong as Top and Broly is stronger than that.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Goku knows about Beerus' full power. It isn't a secret. Otherwise none of the characters would be able to speak on his power but they do. Goku and Vegeta took Beerus' unrestrained attacks. And they saw Beerus and Champa fight. So Goku and Vegeta already got hit by 100% Beerus and saw him in action.

Goku also says that Zamasu could become as strong as Beerus. And this was obvious foreshadowing to how strong Merged Zamasu would be as the Kaioshin state that he's a God beyond their understanding. There's no reason that Beerus and Toppo would be much different in power and he's also seen that power.

And in the manga continuity Goku saw the battle royal between the Gods of Destruction where they all went all out.

[Hugo Boss]

Goku knows about Beerus' full power. It isn't a secret.

The only person that knows Beerus’ full power, besides Beerus himself, is Whis. The story never got to that point. It doesn’t matter what the manga tells.

[HeroR]

what does Goku knows about Beerus' full power?

Nothing whatsoever, but he had seen a God of Destruction fighting seriously. Goku probably thinks Beerus is about as strong as Top and Broly is stronger than that.

In the Super manga, which doesn't connect to the anime where Goku never saw any God of Destruction fight. And Goku in the manga would know that Beerus outpaces Toppo since Toppo in the manga is only as strong as Goku at his max and he has no God of Destruction mode.

[HeroR]

Goku knows about Beerus' full power. It isn't a secret. Otherwise none of the characters would be able to speak on his power but they do. Goku and Vegeta took Beerus' unrestrained attacks. And they saw Beerus and Champa fight. So Goku and Vegeta already got hit by 100% Beerus and saw him in action.

Goku also says that Zamasu could become as strong as Beerus. And this was obvious foreshadowing to how strong Merged Zamasu would be as the Kaioshin state that he's a God beyond their understanding. There's no reason that Beerus and Toppo would be much different in power and he's also seen that power.

And in the manga continuity Goku saw the battle royal between the Gods of Destruction where they all went all out.

How would Goku know Beerus' full power? The only people who really speaks of Beerus' power in Super is Whis, who would know since he trained Beerus.

If Goku and Vegeta got hit by Beerus' full power while he's sleeping, then how are they still alive? Unless you're saying base forms Goku and Vegeta from Resurrection 'F' are capable to Beerus at max, especially when Vegeta took an unguarded kick to the face and didn't lose his head.

And this is what they saw of Beerus and Champa's fight: https://youtu.be/mZX9bY5S9dI?t=65 and https://youtu.be/IOac1vItKuc?t=38

How can Vegeta or Goku guessed from these brief scuffles what they're full power is, especially when Whis and Vados stopped the fight before it got out of hand.

As for the 'Kaioshin state that he's a God beyond their understanding', what does either know about Beerus' power, especially when Gowasu stated this not too long ago: https://youtu.be/fkSWcE-s9Kc?t=117

Super Saiyan 2 Goku from the Future Trunks Saga rivals a God of Destruction?

[Hugo Boss]

In the Super manga, which doesn't connect to the anime where Goku never saw any God of Destruction fight. And Goku in the manga would know that Beerus outpaces Toppo since Toppo in the manga is only as strong as Goku at his max and he has no God of Destruction mode.

I meant the events of the anime, in which Top uses his God of Destruction powers.

[HeroR]

In the Super manga, which doesn't connect to the anime where Goku never saw any God of Destruction fight. And Goku in the manga would know that Beerus outpaces Toppo since Toppo in the manga is only as strong as Goku at his max and he has no God of Destruction mode.

I meant the events of the anime, in which Top uses his God of Destruction powers.

Goku was a little too busy trying not to be killed by Jiren to know where Toppo stands. That is also assuming if Goku thinks Toppo =< Beerus. Strangely enough, Goku never personally comments on Toppo's power. Heck, we don't even know if he knows Jiren was the rumored 'mortal stronger than a god' since when that line was said again, Goku was trying not to die.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Goku knows about Beerus' full power. It isn't a secret.

The only person that knows Beerus’ full power, besides Beerus himself, is Whis. The story never got to that point. It doesn’t matter what the manga tells.

Goku was hit by Beerus' unrestrained power and he literally speaks on Beerus' power by stating Zamasu could become as strong as him. Goku knows, everyone relevant knows. The narrative doesn't have Beerus' power as a secret. That's something that fans made up. Characters stronger than Beerus have demonstrated their power so why would Beerus' power be a secret? Makes no sense.

Goku knows about Beerus' full power. It isn't a secret. Otherwise none of the characters would be able to speak on his power but they do. Goku and Vegeta took Beerus' unrestrained attacks. And they saw Beerus and Champa fight. So Goku and Vegeta already got hit by 100% Beerus and saw him in action.

Goku also says that Zamasu could become as strong as Beerus. And this was obvious foreshadowing to how strong Merged Zamasu would be as the Kaioshin state that he's a God beyond their understanding. There's no reason that Beerus and Toppo would be much different in power and he's also seen that power.

And in the manga continuity Goku saw the battle royal between the Gods of Destruction where they all went all out.

How would Goku know Beerus' full power? The only people who really speaks of Beerus' power in Super is Whis, who would know since he trained Beerus.

If Goku and Vegeta got hit by Beerus' full power while he's sleeping, then how are they still alive? Unless you're saying base forms Goku and Vegeta from Resurrection 'F' are capable to Beerus at max, especially when Vegeta took an unguarded kick to the face and didn't lose his head.

And this is what they saw of Beerus and Champa's fight: https://youtu.be/mZX9bY5S9dI?t=65 and https://youtu.be/IOac1vItKuc?t=38

How can Vegeta or Goku guessed from these brief scuffles what they're full power is, especially when Whis and Vados stopped the fight before it got out of hand.

As for the 'Kaioshin state that he's a God beyond their understanding', what does either know about Beerus' power, especially when Gowasu stated this not too long ago: https://youtu.be/fkSWcE-s9Kc?t=117

Super Saiyan 2 Goku from the Future Trunks Saga rivals a God of Destruction?

It doesn't matter how they're still alive. It's no different than Final Form Frieza surviving countless blows from SSJ Broly. It's stated that Beerus can't restrain himself in his sleep, so Goku and Vegeta were already hit by a Beerus that wasn't holding back.

Beerus and Champa fought enough to demonstrate their power and there's no indication they were holding back considering that they were both battered and bleeding after their short scuffle. Whis and Vados intervening before the universe was destroyed doesn't mean they didn't showcase their power.

There's no reason to believe that the Kaioshin know nothing about the strength of a God of Destruction. Merged Zamasu is beyond their understanding. And it fits with the earlier foreshadowing of Goku saying that Zamasu could become as strong as Beerus. That potential was ultimately realized through Merged Zamasu and the statements surrounding his power corroborate it. This seems fairly obvious.

Gowasu stated that Goku rivaled a God of Destruction based on Beerus' statement about Goku surviving against him. He didn't say anything about Goku rivaling a God at his current level.