Funimation's 30th anniversary collectible home video release

[KBABZ]

As I've been buying up DVDs I've become more and more appreciative of alternate angles, especially with GT. I can select Japanese at the main menu (singles only of course) and have what's basically 'Proto-DragonBox GT' with no changes or edits. Why they stopped doing alternate angles I have no idea, I figured it would work even better on Blu-ray.

Maybe it was such an unused feature that many DVD players stopped supporting it?

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

As I've been buying up DVDs I've become more and more appreciative of alternate angles, especially with GT. I can select Japanese at the main menu (singles only of course) and have what's basically 'Proto-DragonBox GT' with no changes or edits. Why they stopped doing alternate angles I have no idea, I figured it would work even better on Blu-ray.

I believe it had to do with it not being an issue to include them and/or branching video tracks at the time, which was back when they were still doing releases with smaller numbers of episodes. This includes the Z/GT singles with three to four episodes a piece and Saga sets for Dragon Ball though my guess is they gradually phased them out due to moving to box sets with larger numbers of episodes on the discs, and it had to do with bit rate and quality among other things.

Yeah, it is unfortunate that they did away with that for future releases after a certain point.

[JohnnyCashKami]

As I've been buying up DVDs I've become more and more appreciative of alternate angles, especially with GT. I can select Japanese at the main menu (singles only of course) and have what's basically 'Proto-DragonBox GT' with no changes or edits. Why they stopped doing alternate angles I have no idea, I figured it would work even better on Blu-ray.

Maybe it was such an unused feature that many DVD players stopped supporting it?

No. It's a feature available on DVD Players as a whole so it was most likely due to sales in some regard.

Madman got rid of the alternate angles on the OBs, but the Dragon Ball Saga Sets (by Madman) kept the Japanese episode title cards. I'm guessing the OBs were newer.

[Robo4900]

Probably got rid of it due to TOEI as it could have affected the Japanese DVD sales since customers could simply import R1 DVDs which were way cheaper than the Japanese. Japan is R2 but nothing a RF DVD Player wouldn't solve.

People always talk about this, but funnily enough, when asked about it, no one can ever give any kind of source aside from vague anecdotal nonsense and baseless speculation.

There's nothing to suggest Toei have ever cared about the possibility of reverse-importing. In fact, there's even evidence against it, with all the kinds of releases that tend to happen all over that's typically trounced what's available in Japan (most notably: The Levels, and until Toei put out the new movie masters a few months ago, all of Funi's releases of the movies).

It's also worth noting price probably isn't a problem; costs of importing the volume of DVDs/BDs we're talking about would likely just make it not worth it for anyone in Japan to import when they could pick up the DBoxes/DBox singles.

As I've been buying up DVDs I've become more and more appreciative of alternate angles, especially with GT. I can select Japanese at the main menu (singles only of course) and have what's basically 'Proto-DragonBox GT' with no changes or edits. Why they stopped doing alternate angles I have no idea, I figured it would work even better on Blu-ray.

Maybe it was such an unused feature that many DVD players stopped supporting it?

No, and also you're wrong. It's a widely-used feature on tons of DVDs, and the technology to do it on Blu-ray is easier and better. It's just that Funi simply don't use it.

I believe it had to do with it not being an issue to include them and/or branching video tracks at the time, which was back when they were still doing releases with smaller numbers of episodes. This includes the Z/GT singles with three to four episodes a piece and Saga sets for Dragon Ball though my guess is they gradually phased them out due to moving to box sets with larger numbers of episodes on the discs, and it had to do with bit rate and quality among other things.

Yeah, it is unfortunate that they did away with that for future releases after a certain point.

Also wrong. The amount of additional space taken by such things is utterly insignificant.

The real most likely reason they did away with it was that they switched a lot of their home video authoring staff over during the release of the Orange Bricks, and the new guys likely just decided it wasn't worth their time/effort to put in; encoding generally got better under the new guys, but alternate angles disappeared.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Probably got rid of it due to TOEI as it could have affected the Japanese DVD sales since customers could simply import R1 DVDs which were way cheaper than the Japanese. Japan is R2 but nothing a RF DVD Player wouldn't solve.

People always talk about this, but funnily enough, when asked about it, no one can ever give a source better than "well uhh... i uhh... hey, look at the time...!"

There's nothing to suggest Toei have ever cared about the possibility of reverse-importing. In fact, there's even evidence against it, with all the kinds of releases that tend to happen all over that's typically trounced what's available in Japan (the Levels, and until Toei put out the new movie masters a few months ago, all of Funi's releases of the movies).

As I've been buying up DVDs I've become more and more appreciative of alternate angles, especially with GT. I can select Japanese at the main menu (singles only of course) and have what's basically 'Proto-DragonBox GT' with no changes or edits. Why they stopped doing alternate angles I have no idea, I figured it would work even better on Blu-ray.

Maybe it was such an unused feature that many DVD players stopped supporting it?

No, and also you're wrong. It's a widely-used feature on tons of DVDs, and the technology to do it on Blu-ray is easier and better. It's just that Funi simply don't use it.

I believe it had to do with it not being an issue to include them and/or branching video tracks at the time, which was back when they were still doing releases with smaller numbers of episodes. This includes the Z/GT singles with three to four episodes a piece and Saga sets for Dragon Ball though my guess is they gradually phased them out due to moving to box sets with larger numbers of episodes on the discs, and it had to do with bit rate and quality among other things.

Yeah, it is unfortunate that they did away with that for future releases after a certain point.

Also wrong. The amount of additional space taken by such things is utterly insignificant.

The real most likely reason they did away with it was that they switched a lot of their home video authoring staff over during the release of the Orange Bricks; encoding generally got better, but alternate angles disappeared.

Ok, but then again my post was a off top of my head guess so i wasn't absolutely sure that i was correct on the exact reason. I had just assumed it was due to space reasons because of their gradual change to larger sets with more episodes that they got rid of the feature.

[Robo4900]

Ok, but then again my post was a off top of my head guess so i wasn't absolutely sure that i was correct on the exact reason. I had just assumed it was due to space reasons because of their gradual change to larger sets with more episodes that they got rid of the feature.

Fair.

Still, assumptions and guesswork being thrown around and accepted is how we've ended up with the amount of misinformation we have about Dragon Ball, so I tend to step on that stuff pretty hard when I see it. Though perhaps a little too hard at times; my apologies if I did so here.

[KBABZ]

Still, assumptions and guesswork being thrown around and accepted is how we've ended up with the amount of misinformation we have about Dragon Ball, so I tend to step on that stuff pretty hard when I see it. Though perhaps a little too hard at times; my apologies if I did so here.

My face still hurts from the alternate angle one.

[sangofe]

Now I was wondering, did Toei scan all Kai for Z or just the specific episodes?

but I'm inclined to believe AnimeMaakuo that Funi is using their internal master of the show.

Do you mind linking to that spesific post? I can't find it.

[Spoofer]

While I'm no expert on the technical details, among the broader anime fandom, it's well-known that Funi's alternate angles introduced significant macroblocking to the shows that featured them. Even in scenes where no alternate angles were present. I forget and/or can't explain why that is, but I think there might have even been an Anime News Network Answerman article about it once. I own a ton of releases that featured the alternate angles, and they do indeed each feature macroblocking problems above the norm. Once Funi ditched AA, their releases ended up looking a lot better, albeit with the unfortunate loss of Japanese credit options. They could of course just leave the Japanese credits intact and translate them later on like many other US companies, but lol, it's Funi, they need America to know that they're the primary ones responsible for the titles we enjoy.

EDIT: Found it, explained here:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answer ... 09/.101627

So yeah, it cut the video bitrate in half, which resulted in the macroblocking issues. Did it really cut the bitrate in half for the entire feature though, and not just the credit or title portions where the angle feature was necessary? I don't understand why it would work like that, and I'm not at home atm to test the bitrates, but it would indeed explain why even throughout the episodes macroblocking was such a huge problem on those discs. I think it was their first Fullmetal Alchemist release where people really started getting pissed about the video quality, and forced Funi to make the change. I personally remember first noticing how bad it was on the Blue Gender discs, especially during the finale with fast-motion action and bright laser bursts taking place in a dark cave. The macroblocking was so bad it ruined the entire experience for me. So ultimately, it's a good thing they ditched them and improved their overall video quality.

[KBABZ]

[A long post]

I'm not entirely read up on how alternate angles work, but from what I understand you need to provide an alternate angle for THE ENTIRE EPISODE, not just the bit that you need, so that they both line up when you jump from one to the other. Obviously, this basically doubles the episode count on the disc. The only alternative is to do a sort of automated playlist where the intro and main episode content play until it gets to the title card, then it jumps to the video file that's for English or Japanese, then back to the main show. The downside to that is that you'd have a noticeable pause as it jumps to a different part of the disc, but it's possible that Blu-Ray playback might not have that issue.

Now I was wondering, did Toei scan all Kai for Z or just the specific episodes?

but I'm inclined to believe AnimeMaakuo that Funi is using their internal master of the show.

Do you mind linking to that spesific post? I can't find it.

Sure, here it is! Click on the up arrow on the quote's title to be taken straight to the original post.

I believe FUNi is using the same masters as the ones provided in the level sets, however he will get back with me to confirm.

[Scsigs]

As I've been buying up DVDs I've become more and more appreciative of alternate angles, especially with GT. I can select Japanese at the main menu (singles only of course) and have what's basically 'Proto-DragonBox GT' with no changes or edits. Why they stopped doing alternate angles I have no idea, I figured it would work even better on Blu-ray.

It would. I point to the Star Trek TOS Blu-Rays, which contain alternate angles for the space scenes where you can choose whether you wanna watch the new or old effects/models & you can even switch between them somehow on the fly. One of the Okudas even noted for one episode how they thought the remastered version of one of the early scenes was the better, then the original effects were better in a later scene, so you have that. Even the new Doctor Who classic Blu-Rays contain both the original & redone effects for some of the serials that got them, which you can switch on or off at the menus. However, FUNi are more so just trying to make sure their releases are the same across the board in terms of design. Translated title cards are the way they go about it. However, I wish they'd just have actual translated versions of the original titles for DB rather than the renamed versions, but that's too much to ask 20 years after the fact when they've been cemented.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

As I've been buying up DVDs I've become more and more appreciative of alternate angles, especially with GT. I can select Japanese at the main menu (singles only of course) and have what's basically 'Proto-DragonBox GT' with no changes or edits. Why they stopped doing alternate angles I have no idea, I figured it would work even better on Blu-ray.

It would. I point to the Star Trek TOS Blu-Rays, which contain alternate angles for thee space scenes where you can choose whether you wanna watch the new or old effects/models & you can even switch between them somehow on the fly. One of the Okudas even noted for one episode how they thought the remastered version of one of the early scenes was the better, then the original effects were better in a later scene, so you have that. Even the new Doctor Who classic Blu-Rays contain both the original & redone effects for some of the serials that got them, which you can switch on or off at the menus. However, FUNi are more so just trying to make sure their releases are the same across the board in terms of design. Translated title cards are the way they go about it. However, I wish they'd just have actual translated versions of the original titles for DB rather than the renamed versions, but that's too much to as 20 years after the fact when they've been cemented.

Indeed, those Star Trek BD season sets are a really good example i think of how they have made effective use of the branching video for the original/remastered effects so that fans could have both for whichever they like based on their own personal preference and i could definitely see something similar for Dragon Ball on Blu-ray being done in regards to the title cards and such. Of course you only get that option if you have bought the three seasons that way or the other variations of them since then, and seeing as i am a DVD person that of course means i have been buying both versions separately in the three individual season sets containing the original versions and the remastered versions in one complete package.

Still, it's pretty cool they included that feature for a pretty dang near definitive release of TOS amongst the other stuff aside from the episodes unfortunately being arranged in the somewhat random air date order as opposed to the more accepted and apparently correct production order. Hopefully we might see something like the former being done for future DB releases on Blu-ray down the road.

[linkdude20002001]

While I'm no expert on the technical details, among the broader anime fandom, it's well-known that Funi's alternate angles introduced significant macroblocking to the shows that featured them.

It cut the video bitrate in half, which resulted in the macroblocking.

So ultimately, it's a good thing they ditched them and improved their overall video quality.

That’s DVD. Blu-ray Discs don’t have alternate angles, but rather, alternate chapters. You can include two separate chapter directions for the two separate audio tracks. I think it could even be used to skip scenes for the inclusion of the Edited versions of Funimation’s dub, or even the AB Groupe / Ocean dub.

[Scsigs]

Indeed, those Star Trek BD season sets are a really good example i think of how they have made effective use of the branching video for the original/remastered effects so that fans could have both for whichever they like based on their own personal preference and i could definitely see something similar for Dragon Ball on Blu-ray being done in regards to the title cards and such. Of course you only get that option if you have bought the three seasons that way or the other variations of them since then, and seeing as i am a DVD person that of course means i have been buying both versions separately in the three individual season sets containing the original versions and the remastered versions in one complete package.

Still, it's pretty cool they included that feature for a pretty dang near definitive release of TOS amongst the other stuff aside from the episodes unfortunately being arranged in the somewhat random air date order as opposed to the more accepted and apparently correct production order. Hopefully we might see something like the former being done for future DB releases on Blu-ray down the road.

TOS' episode order is really weird in general. First you had episodes aired out of production order (nothing new for 60s TV) because the show isn't serialized. Then, there's the fact that the episodes are technically out of order anyways because the Star Dates weren't standardized to being in an actual order, so they made them up depending on the episode. It's all just screwed for TOS overall.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Indeed, those Star Trek BD season sets are a really good example i think of how they have made effective use of the branching video for the original/remastered effects so that fans could have both for whichever they like based on their own personal preference and i could definitely see something similar for Dragon Ball on Blu-ray being done in regards to the title cards and such. Of course you only get that option if you have bought the three seasons that way or the other variations of them since then, and seeing as i am a DVD person that of course means i have been buying both versions separately in the three individual season sets containing the original versions and the remastered versions in one complete package.

Still, it's pretty cool they included that feature for a pretty dang near definitive release of TOS amongst the other stuff aside from the episodes unfortunately being arranged in the somewhat random air date order as opposed to the more accepted and apparently correct production order. Hopefully we might see something like the former being done for future DB releases on Blu-ray down the road.

TOS' episode order is really weird in general. First you had episodes aired out of production order (nothing new for 60s TV) because the show isn't serialized. Then, there's the fact that the episodes are technically out of order anyways because the Star Dates weren't standardized to being in an actual order, so they made them up depending on the episode. It's all just screwed for TOS overall.

True, and the releases of the series on the various home video formats over the years have taken various and inconsistent approaches in terms of the episode order. It just seems in general that the production order happens to be the one most fans of the series have become accustomed to over time.

If I recall correctly the various releases of the series have taken the following back and forth pattern in terms of episode order over the past 30+ years since it was first released on home video.

Columbia House Collector's edition two episode VHS: Star Date order (Only release to do so)

Retail individual episode VHS: Production order

Two episode Laserdisc: Airdate order with production order numbers listed

Individual two episode DVD: Production order

Season DVD: Airdate order

Remastered HD-DVD/standard season DVD: Airdate order

Blu-ray seasons: Airdate order

Yeah, it's just gone back and forth from release to release with no consistency.

[Kuwabara]

Do you think Funimation might have some fun with the 30th Anniversary page on April 1st? Seems like a perfect opportunity to advertise a BRAND NEW 8K CINEMASCOPE ULTRA WIDESCREEN EDITION OF DBZ !!!

[Scsigs]

Do you think Funimation might have some fun with the 30th Anniversary page on April 1st? Seems like a perfect opportunity to advertise a BRAND NEW 8K CINEMASCOPE ULTRA WIDESCREEN EDITION OF DBZ !!!

I fucking hope to whatever deity may or may not govern this universe not.

[Char Aznable]

Do you think Funimation might have some fun with the 30th Anniversary page on April 1st? Seems like a perfect opportunity to advertise a BRAND NEW 8K CINEMASCOPE ULTRA WIDESCREEN EDITION OF DBZ !!!

SOURCING THE ORIGINAL JAPANESE MASTERS FROM DEEP INSIDE OUR VAULTS, WE'VE REPLACED AND UPDATED ALL THE VISUAL EFFECTS USING STATE OF THE ART COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY WORTH OVER TEN MILLION DOLLARS, FOR A TRULY AUTHENTIC CINEMATIC EXPERIENCE THAT IS SURE TO BLOW YOUR FUCKING MIND!

[Scsigs]

Do you think Funimation might have some fun with the 30th Anniversary page on April 1st? Seems like a perfect opportunity to advertise a BRAND NEW 8K CINEMASCOPE ULTRA WIDESCREEN EDITION OF DBZ !!!

SOURCING THE ORIGINAL JAPANESE MASTERS FROM DEEP INSIDE OUR VAULTS, WE'VE REPLACED AND UPDATED ALL THE VISUAL EFFECTS USING STATE OF THE ART COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY WORTH OVER TEN MILLION DOLLARS, FOR A TRULY AUTHENTIC CINEMATIC EXPERIENCE THAT IS SURE TO BLOW YOUR FUCKING MIND!

All right, Matt Stone & Trey Parker.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Do you think Funimation might have some fun with the 30th Anniversary page on April 1st? Seems like a perfect opportunity to advertise a BRAND NEW 8K CINEMASCOPE ULTRA WIDESCREEN EDITION OF DBZ !!!

SOURCING THE ORIGINAL JAPANESE MASTERS FROM DEEP INSIDE OUR VAULTS, WE'VE REPLACED AND UPDATED ALL THE VISUAL EFFECTS USING STATE OF THE ART COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY WORTH OVER TEN MILLION DOLLARS, FOR A TRULY AUTHENTIC CINEMATIC EXPERIENCE THAT IS SURE TO BLOW YOUR FUCKING MIND!

THIS IS TRULY THE WAY IT WAS REALLY MEANT TO BE SEEN!!!!!!!!!!! IT'S POWER IS OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!

(Yeah, pretty hilarious joke huh? I laughed even as i typed it.)