Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:44 pm

ahill1 wrote:ahill's passionate battle power list:





Feel free to criticize/offer a feedback. It'd be appreciated.

Mh, guidelines power levels to a some extent, ok.
Soo
Following this logic, freezer 2 is around a million, let's just double his original pl for the sake of comfort and we have 1'060'000.
for freezer 3 just double again, 2'120'000, and same for freezer 4 initial , at 4'240'000.
At this point, I'd use a natural multiplier of 90'000 for goku, putting him at 4'500'000.
Plus, both post genkidama freezer and goku (when he turned ssj) were injuried, so I'd don't do ssj base full power goku x50.
For the Android saga, I see you tend to use kind of ugly numbers and really weird multipliers... to use round numbers is just better visibly speaking.
For the humans I llike to use multipliers of their saiyan saga power levels, but this is subjective after all.
For buu saga: just use the normal daizenshuu gaps between multipliers, or at least for ssj1 and 2. Else it would be a mess. Consider kiri scaling also, it helps.just why changing fusions ssj multipliers? It's no sense. That limit the gap idea is totally no sense imo.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Soldierofficial » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:05 pm

Dragon Ball Power Levels

MULTIPLIERS

Oozaru: x10
Super Saiyan: x50
Super Saiyan Grade 2: x75
Super Saiyan Grade 3: x125
Super Saiyan 2: x100
Super Saiyan 3: x400

Death of the Gods Arc
Demon War Arc
Dragon Ball Arc
21st Tenkaichi Budokai Arc
Red Ribbon Army Arc
Uranai Baba’s Tournament Arc
22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc
Piccolo Daimao Arc
23rd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc
Saiyan Arc
Freeza Arc
Mecha Freeza Arc
Future Arc I
Cell Arc
Future Arc II
Buu Arc
28th Tenkaichi Budokai Arc

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ahill1 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:20 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
ahill1 wrote:ahill's passionate battle power list:





Feel free to criticize/offer a feedback. It'd be appreciated.

Mh, guidelines power levels to a some extent, ok.
Soo
Following this logic, freezer 2 is around a million, let's just double his original pl for the sake of comfort and we have 1'060'000.
for freezer 3 just double again, 2'120'000, and same for freezer 4 initial , at 4'240'000.
At this point, I'd use a natural multiplier of 90'000 for goku, putting him at 4'500'000.
Plus, both post genkidama freezer and goku (when he turned ssj) were injuried, so I'd don't do ssj base full power goku x50.
For the Android saga, I see you tend to use kind of ugly numbers and really weird multipliers... to use round numbers is just better visibly speaking.
For the humans I llike to use multipliers of their saiyan saga power levels, but this is subjective after all.
For buu saga: just use the normal daizenshuu gaps between multipliers, or at least for ssj1 and 2. Else it would be a mess. Consider kiri scaling also, it helps.just why changing fusions ssj multipliers? It's no sense. That limit the gap idea is totally no sense imo.
Well, I can adhere to the idea that Freeza doubles his power whenever he transforms, but since I generally do use the 3M number for base Goku for convenience's sake, final form Freeza's advantage over base Goku would look a little too big for what the fight showed.

I think Goku managed to recover his strength once he turned into a SSJ... maybe turning into a SSJ for the first time allows the Sayajin to replenish their strength. As we saw, Goku could barely walk on his own after the Genki-Dama, while Goku, when he leveled down to base after giving Freeza a little of his energy, could fly and dodge Freeza's kienzan, showing he wasn't at that pathetic level.

Sure haha. My numbers might not look so round up and therefore good in the eyes. Will keep that in mind.

I can roll with the 2x SSJ2 multiplier, sure, but due to some headcanon I opted to use a bigger one. Basically, I like to see Cell's power up to full power as a similar power up Vegeta performed when leveling up to grade 2 due to similarities in their auras... and based on kid Gohan's tanking feat, I like to envision a rather big gap between him and full power Cell, bigger than gaps like SSJ Vegeta vs Android #19 going by their tanking feats. So a 2x power up for Gohan ends up kinda too small to match these PoVs.

As for the differing multipliers, while there isn't anything explicitly stating the multiplier is lessened for fusions, I just like to see it that way so Gotenks' advantage over Goku doesn't end up hitting the hundrends or even thousands of times.


Edit: Damn, I thought I'd be using Goku's Daizenshuu number (battle against Freeza) for this list. Have just noticed that I opted to go with 5M for his base level.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:56 am

ahill1 wrote:
p-hyvo wrote:
ahill1 wrote:ahill's passionate battle power list:





Feel free to criticize/offer a feedback. It'd be appreciated.

Mh, guidelines power levels to a some extent, ok.
Soo
Following this logic, freezer 2 is around a million, let's just double his original pl for the sake of comfort and we have 1'060'000.
for freezer 3 just double again, 2'120'000, and same for freezer 4 initial , at 4'240'000.
At this point, I'd use a natural multiplier of 90'000 for goku, putting him at 4'500'000.
Plus, both post genkidama freezer and goku (when he turned ssj) were injuried, so I'd don't do ssj base full power goku x50.
For the Android saga, I see you tend to use kind of ugly numbers and really weird multipliers... to use round numbers is just better visibly speaking.
For the humans I llike to use multipliers of their saiyan saga power levels, but this is subjective after all.
For buu saga: just use the normal daizenshuu gaps between multipliers, or at least for ssj1 and 2. Else it would be a mess. Consider kiri scaling also, it helps.just why changing fusions ssj multipliers? It's no sense. That limit the gap idea is totally no sense imo.
Well, I can adhere to the idea that Freeza doubles his power whenever he transforms, but since I generally do use the 3M number for base Goku for convenience's sake, final form Freeza's advantage over base Goku would look a little too big for what the fight showed.

I think Goku managed to recover his strength once he turned into a SSJ... maybe turning into a SSJ for the first time allows the Sayajin to replenish their strength. As we saw, Goku could barely walk on his own after the Genki-Dama, while Goku, when he leveled down to base after giving Freeza a little of his energy, could fly and dodge Freeza's kienzan, showing he wasn't at that pathetic level.

Sure haha. My numbers might not look so round up and therefore good in the eyes. Will keep that in mind.

I can roll with the 2x SSJ2 multiplier, sure, but due to some headcanon I opted to use a bigger one. Basically, I like to see Cell's power up to full power as a similar power up Vegeta performed when leveling up to grade 2 due to similarities in their auras... and based on kid Gohan's tanking feat, I like to envision a rather big gap between him and full power Cell, bigger than gaps like SSJ Vegeta vs Android #19 going by their tanking feats. So a 2x power up for Gohan ends up kinda too small to match these PoVs.

As for the differing multipliers, while there isn't anything explicitly stating the multiplier is lessened for fusions, I just like to see it that way so Gotenks' advantage over Goku doesn't end up hitting the hundrends or even thousands of times.


Edit: Damn, I thought I'd be using Goku's Daizenshuu number (battle against Freeza) for this list. Have just noticed that I opted to go with 5M for his base level.
If you want to go with the daizenshuu number for goku, then treat freezer simply like
530>1'060>1'590>3'080.-that would be fine.
Plus, vegeta is 2'400'000 in daizenshuu, not 2'700'000.
For gotenks, just don't worry. If he has to be hundreds times stronger than goku, so be it. There's no problem at all in that, it's natural
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:39 am

p-hyvo wrote: Plus, vegeta is 2'400'000 in daizenshuu, not 2'700'000
Vegeta doesn't have a Daizenshuu battle power for that section of the story at all.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:38 am

DanielSSJ wrote:
p-hyvo wrote: Plus, vegeta is 2'400'000 in daizenshuu, not 2'700'000
Vegeta doesn't have a Daizenshuu battle power for that section of the story at all.
I'm sure he has. Absolutely
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:03 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
DanielSSJ wrote:
p-hyvo wrote: Plus, vegeta is 2'400'000 in daizenshuu, not 2'700'000
Vegeta doesn't have a Daizenshuu battle power for that section of the story at all.
I'm sure he has. Absolutely
No, he doesn't have an entry for his power being ever at 2.4M. The highest one he was ever listed at was 250,000.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:28 pm

p-hyvo wrote:I'm sure he has. Absolutely
Check the website's Battle Power Guide. Vegeta's highest official battle power is the 250k number from that one V-Jump article, and even that one's up for debate, given that the Daizenshuu and Super Exciting Guide never reprinted it.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:23 pm

Since a lot of people are posting their lists these days, I thought I could make one of my own and give it a spin as well. I'll be adding some notes in italic explaining my logic as well when I find necessary.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:03 pm

Soldierofficial wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:05 pm
Dragon Ball Power Levels

MULTIPLIERS

Oozaru: x10
Super Saiyan: x50
Super Saiyan Grade 2: x75
Super Saiyan Grade 3: x125
Super Saiyan 2: x100
Super Saiyan 3: x400

Death of the Gods Arc
Demon War Arc
Dragon Ball Arc
21st Tenkaichi Budokai Arc
Red Ribbon Army Arc
Uranai Baba’s Tournament Arc
22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc
Piccolo Daimao Arc
23rd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc
Saiyan Arc
Freeza Arc
Mecha Freeza Arc
Future Arc I
Cell Arc
Future Arc II
Buu Arc
28th Tenkaichi Budokai Arc
I always get happy when someone uses my format.

:D

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:27 pm

Yo guys, I was wondering if the Powered-up Super Mega Cannon Sigma (being just below Base Rilldo) could defeat a Level 3 Luud (or even a Level 2).

Also, would the Sigma Force as individuals have a better chance against him, since the 4th member of the Force was in the SMCS entity?
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:15 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:58 pm
That’s oversimplification. Not only Toriyama doesn’t write Super, but he also hasn’t the power to decide what is canon.
My thoughts exactly, but on-topic...

Do you guys think Vegeta (vs. Goku) in the Saiyan arc would still defeat Kiwi (without relying on the Power Ball) considering they had the same battle powers at time?
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Sūpāsaiya » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:33 am

From Raditz-Frieza, next I'll do the Android and a little of the Cell Saga.

Saiyan Saga
Namek Saga

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:34 pm

Noah wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:15 am
Do you guys think Vegeta (vs. Goku) in the Saiyan arc would still defeat Kiwi (without relying on the Power Ball) considering they had the same battle powers at time?
I think he could. When Vegeta used galick gun he could actually match Goku’s kamehameha before the kaioken x4’s amplification.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:29 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:19 am
Hey is it possible Android #19 is weaker than we thought? Vegeta's kick hurts him pretty bad and even leaves a mark. I don't think a off guard attack on far stronger guys has ever done that before. Even #20 manages to tank a punch from Goku without any damage.
Yeah, that's always stuck out to me. But at the same time, 19 could make Super Saiyan Vegeta's lip bleed... Maybe I'd just split the difference and put 19 between his base and Super Saiyan forms.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:15 am

Here is my view on the Fusion Dance formula, prior to it's retcon, according to what we got from the movies, the manga and the anime. I am open to your criticism.

In this post I am going to showcase the formula on which I have been working on for a long time, concerning the Fusion Dance.

Goku=8.000 (power level)
Vegeta=18.000

SSJ Goku=400.000
SSJ Vegeta=900.000

SSJ2 Goku=800.000
SSJ2 Vegeta=1.800.000

SSJ3 Goku=3.200.000
SSJ3 Vegeta=7.200.000

GOGETA

Formula: (A+B)×72 (optimal multiplier, if both fusees are equal in terms of power level without supressing their power)



2.5/50=0.05 × 144 (Goku times Gogeta at the optimal state)= 7.2 (SSJ multiplier for Gogeta)**I can provide some further input on this.

With the power levels (official stats) above, we will try to showcase the power of Gogeta in the Saiyan Arc. Say that Vegeta and Goku have to fuse. Vegeta has to supress his power to become equal to Goku by 55% (100/18.000×10.000 (the difference in power level)). 55×0.72 (the corresponding multiplier which is equal to 1% of the Fusion's multiplier)= 40. This means that due to Vegeta's supression to reach the maximum power level of Goku (of 8.000) the multiplier of the Fusion has to decrease by 40 times. Apply this to the formula and you get: (A+B)×32

Now, if we add the power levels we get the following: (8.000+8.000)×32 = 16.000×32 = 512.000

However, what happened to Vegeta's supressed power? Well, it adds up to this part, meaning 512.000+10.000=522.000, Gogeta's power level in base. Multiply this by 7.2 which is Gogeta's SSJ multiplier and you get a power level of 3.758.000 which surpasses SSJ3 Goku but it is only half of Vegeta's SSJ3 power level. In this case where the one of the users has to supress his power by more than 50%, then it is possible that the SSJ form of the resulting being might not fully surpass the highest level of strength of the most powerful fusee.

Unlike Potara, the "Fusion Dance" is easily altered by many parameters. So it is practically impossible to apply the same formula in all cases, but I believe that the one that I found is very near to the original. Now on to some explanation:

As we all know, the Metamoran Fusion creates a being which is "several dozens" of times stronger than the sum of both individuals' power. The word "several" is the key. I did some research and "several" is defined as a number above 2 and 3, but below 9. As such, I came to think that by saying "several dozens" it was either 4,5,6,7 or 8 times 12 (a dozen). I chose number 6 to serve as my catalyst, as it is a middle ground option.

The more an individual supresses their power level, in order to match their co-fusee's power level (if they have to), the lower the multiplier of the Fusion. As stated earlier, with the maximum multiplier of the sum of both individuals' power being 6 dozens of times (72), then the multiplier equivalent to a percentage of the Fusion's maximum multiplier is 0.72× Base (of one of the individuals ( use Goku and Vegeta, with the two being equals)). Due to all this, the user that has supressed their power by a specific percentage, then the corresponding multiplier will be removed by the Fusion's maximum multiplier of 72. Long story short, what I did with Vegeta earlier.

Because of this example being one of the special cases where one of the fusees has to supress their power, the resulting fused being doesn't naturally evolve superior to both fusees' SSJ2 level. However, if we apply the info that we were given in GT, then we can assume that Goku and Vegeta are equals, hense the Fusion's multiplier will be the optimal one.

Vegeta=Goku=1

Formula: (A+B)×72

(1+1)×72=2×72=144 "Gokus" or "Vegetas". With that said, both the resulting being is "dozens of times" superior to the sum of both individuals' power and the fused individual naturally evolves above the SSJ2 levels of both fusees. Moreover, Super Gogeta is lesser to Super Vegito who is equal to 2.5×500=1.250 "Gokus" or "Vegetas", with the Metamorean Fusion counterpart being equivalent to 7.2×144=~1.030 "Gokus" or "Vegetas". Basically, the two beings ain't that different in power as we thought, but Vegito has a slight advantage in terms of power, but Gogeta can still raise his power level more quickly, so in my opinion neither has the upper hand.

Going by Buu saga data, it is stated in the Anime that Goku as a SSJ has a count of 3,000 Kili (with one Kili being equal to a Battle Power of 50,000). This would make Goku as a Super Saiyan equal to his Namek Saga counterpart which may sound completely inconsistent. However, we have to understand that the way Goku got stronger over the years was through his forms and his mastery over them. He never really tried to increase his base form's power level, as he resorted in the multipliers of his transformations to get the job done. Whis specifically taught Goku and Vegeta that their training should increase the power of their base form and not of their transformations (while transformed).

Furthermore, by applying my optimal formula on Gogeta from Fusion Reborn (which happened just a few days after the Buu Saga), Gogeta as a Super Saiyan has a power level of only 2.5 billion. Before you say that the movies are not canon, the result from the Metamoran formula which I created gives you a power level for each fusee of the scale of 2.5 million. Considering that Vegeta wasn't equal to Goku, you can give Goku the power level of 3 million and Vegeta that of 2 million to split the difference (as 2.5 is the middle ground between the two). This further supports my formula.

So back on Gotenks, if his SSJ is equal to Goku's SSJ3, then Goku's BP divided by 50 (to determine Gotenk's BP) gives us the number of 24 million for Gotenks' base form. Now if Trunks had to supress his BP by 20% to match with that of Goten's, Gotenks' BP will be divided by the number which corresponds to the Fusion's multiplier with the decrease of 20% of one of the fusees. This will give us the multiplier of 57.6 for the kids' fusion, which will of course multiply their sum of BP. With this multiplier, both are equals in power, meaning that we divide Gotenks' BP in base by 57.6 and then by 2 for each one of them. The result is 200,000+ BP or 4+ Kili. Half of Frieza's power in his First suppression form. Vegeta had this power by his thirties with endless years of training, so it is a pretty big power level for the boys.

Now by knowing this we can get the exact multiplier of Gotenks' SSJ form, which is rather easy to get. With him being in Base equal to 8 "Gokus", he gets a multiplier of 49.6 for SSJ. A rather small difference. This by 24 million is nearly equal to Goku as a SSJ3 (slightly less powerful), which also is evident of Gotenks' being almost 8 times stronger to Goku (remember that SSJ3=8× SSJ). After we determined Gotenks' SSJ multiplier, we will divide Goku's SSJ3 BP by this multiplier and get Gotenks' Base which is nearly 25 million. Then we once again divide this by 56.7 and then by 2 and we get their exact BP as individuals, which aren't too different from the previous ones, but they are higher numbers.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:54 pm

Based on everything that I've seen:

Base Vegito >> Ssj3 Goku (buu arc)
Base Gotenks >> Ssj goten/trunks
Base Vegito >> ssb goku/vegeta (manga ft arc, probably anime too but he never fought)
Base kefla >> controlled ssj kale
Base Gogeta >> ssb goku/vegeta (movie)

Its likely that fusion is always going to result in someone stronger than the individuals current max. So there isnt a set multiplier.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:15 am

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:54 pm
Based on everything that I've seen:

Base Vegito >> Ssj3 Goku (buu arc)
Base Gotenks >> Ssj goten/trunks
Base Vegito >> ssb goku/vegeta (manga ft arc, probably anime too but he never fought)
Base kefla >> controlled ssj kale
Base Gogeta >> ssb goku/vegeta (movie)

Its likely that fusion is always going to result in someone stronger than the individuals current max. So there isnt a set multiplier.
I agree. Which is why I state myself that the formula cannot be used in all cases. The fusion is what you will use when you are at your limits. At least, when you reach your "normal" limits. Or else Gogeta is DBS: Broly could be stronger in base than Blue Evolution Vegeta and Ultra Instinct Omen Goku. An overkill... :lol:
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:41 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:54 pm
Based on everything that I've seen:

Base Vegito >> Ssj3 Goku (buu arc)
Base Gotenks >> Ssj goten/trunks
Base Vegito >> ssb goku/vegeta (manga ft arc, probably anime too but he never fought)
Base kefla >> controlled ssj kale
Base Gogeta >> ssb goku/vegeta (movie)

Its likely that fusion is always going to result in someone stronger than the individuals current max. So there isnt a set multiplier.
This is impossible unless you have the kids as Super Saiyans very weak.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:43 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:41 pm
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:54 pm
Based on everything that I've seen:

Base Vegito >> Ssj3 Goku (buu arc)
Base Gotenks >> Ssj goten/trunks
Base Vegito >> ssb goku/vegeta (manga ft arc, probably anime too but he never fought)
Base kefla >> controlled ssj kale
Base Gogeta >> ssb goku/vegeta (movie)

Its likely that fusion is always going to result in someone stronger than the individuals current max. So there isnt a set multiplier.
This is impossible unless you have the kids as Super Saiyans very weak.
How exactly? Base Gotenks being weaker than the SSJ kids would make absolutely no sense from the way it was presented.

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