"(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

[Grimlock]

How we are still at the point of discussing whether Xeno Goku knows about the "god transformations" is beyond me. "A power I don't know about" is general and clear enough to know that he refers to the whole thing. If he had Super Saiyan God, he would rapidly acknowledge Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan as a step above it, but no such statement was made, no "wow, I didn't know I could level it up like that" is there. Xeno Goku refers to it as "a power", and Super Saiyan God is to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan as well as Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are to Super Saiyan. Xeno Goku is not dumb to not acknowledge related forms if he had it. Hell, if anything, Goku is the one who pays more attention to these transformations as he is the one explaining and naming them.

Yes, it is possible that Xeno Goku could have known about god Ki, only in the sense that he is a Time Patroller and may have seen the events that his counterpart experienced. That's the only way of him knowing what god Ki is. Other than that, it is pretty clear he does not have it, he did not experiece the same events, and he comes from (a point after) Dragon Ball GT, the timeline where Goku did not have god forms.

And XTrunks must have SSJ3 because Gohanks: Xeno uses SSJ3 (and most likely Gohan as well, since the two fusion users must have the same transformation).

Goten and Trunks do not have Super Saiyan 3, yet Gotenks does. The fusees don't need to have a certain form for their fused character to have it.

[Ssb_goku20]

How we are still at the point of discussing whether Xeno Goku knows about the "god transformations" is beyond me. "A power I don't know about" is general and clear enough to know that he refers to the whole thing. If he had Super Saiyan God, he would rapidly acknowledge Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan as a step above it, but no such statement was made, no "wow, I didn't know I could level it up like that" is there. Xeno Goku refers to it as "a power", and Super Saiyan God is to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan as well as Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are to Super Saiyan. Xeno Goku is not dumb to not acknowledge related forms if he had it. Hell, if anything, Goku is the one who pays more attention to these transformations as he is the one explaining and naming them.

Yes, it is possible that Xeno Goku could have known about god Ki, only in the sense that he is a Time Patroller and may have seen the events that his counterpart experienced. That's the only way of him knowing what god Ki is. Other than that, it is pretty clear he does not have it, he did not experiece the same events, and he comes from (a point after) Dragon Ball GT, the timeline where Goku did not have god forms.

And XTrunks must have SSJ3 because Gohanks: Xeno uses SSJ3 (and most likely Gohan as well, since the two fusion users must have the same transformation).

Goten and Trunks do not have Super Saiyan 3, yet Gotenks does. The fusees don't need to have a certain form for their fused character to have it.

How do we know he didn't experience Ssg some point in his Timeline after the Shadow Dragon Arc? We don't know that for sure and that's the point I'm making. His statement of not knowing the " power " his counterpart is using was stated in regards to " the blue haired Super Saiyan " and wasn't stated to be about the Ki in use. I know he isn't dumb and would reference Ssg but this is Heroes, they kept the fact that the Xeno's had Ssj4 hidden for a while. Look at Dbs Broly as far as the Ssj legend goes there's only 1 Ssj form but Paragus failed to make note of how Vegeta transformed even further ( and Saiyan's were obsessed with Ssj ). Or when Broly used Ssj Full Power there wasn't a reference to Kale at all, not by Whis or Gogeta. Or when Cumber used Golden Oozaru which is something the Super characters never seen before but they didn't make note of how that's possible but only made note he did so sometimes they don't reference certain forms.

[Grimlock]

How do we know he didn't experience Ssg some point in his Timeline after the Shadow Dragon Arc?

Because he uses Super Saiyan 4 (?). If he had Super Saiyan God, why would he use Super Saiyan 4? - "Because he lost it" - well, that's an assumption I'm not willing to make. At this point, if that was the case, we would probably have a mention about it by now.

His statement of not knowing the " power " his counterpart is using was stated in regards to " the blue haired Super Saiyan " and wasn't stated to be about the Ki in use.

This doesn't even make sense. The power is the Ki, not visual appearance. The change in appearance is more like a "side effect", a mere consequence of something else. One can achieve greater or even different power without changing much their appearance.

Look at Dbs Broly as far as the Ssj legend goes there's only 1 Ssj form but Paragus failed to make note of how Vegeta transformed even further ( and Saiyan's were obsessed with Ssj ). Or when Broly used Ssj Full Power there wasn't a reference to Kale at all, not by Whis or Gogeta.

The lack of a comment bothers me too, but for this we can only roll our eyes.

Or when Cumber used Golden Oozaru which is something the Super characters never seen before but they didn't make note of how that's possible but only made note he did so sometimes they don't reference certain forms.

But this one has an explanation: Cumber didn't use Golden Oozaru, it is regular Oozaru. I really don't understand why and how this got spread in a so misinformed way. No cards, no marketing, nothing states that the Oozaru Cumber used is the golden one.

[Ssb_goku20]

How do we know he didn't experience Ssg some point in his Timeline after the Shadow Dragon Arc?

Because he uses Super Saiyan 4 (?). If he had Super Saiyan God, why would he use Super Saiyan 4? - "Because he lost it" - well, that's an assumption I'm not willing to make. At this point, if that was the case, we would probably have a mention about it by now.

His statement of not knowing the " power " his counterpart is using was stated in regards to " the blue haired Super Saiyan " and wasn't stated to be about the Ki in use.

This doesn't even make sense. The power is the Ki, not visual appearance. The change in appearance is more like a "side effect", a mere consequence of something else. One can achieve greater or even different power without changing much their appearance.

Look at Dbs Broly as far as the Ssj legend goes there's only 1 Ssj form but Paragus failed to make note of how Vegeta transformed even further ( and Saiyan's were obsessed with Ssj ). Or when Broly used Ssj Full Power there wasn't a reference to Kale at all, not by Whis or Gogeta.

The lack of a comment bothers me too, but for this we can only roll our eyes.

Or when Cumber used Golden Oozaru which is something the Super characters never seen before but they didn't make note of how that's possible but only made note he did so sometimes they don't reference certain forms.

But this one has an explanation: Cumber didn't use Golden Oozaru, it is regular Oozaru. I really don't understand why and how this got spread in a so misinformed way. No cards, no marketing, nothing states that the Oozaru Cumber used is the golden one.

If he was talking about the Ki the form was using he would've said so. Look at some of times Blue was used it was noted by Mortals that it emits huge amounts of pressure ( and that was stated when the Ki Aura was flared ) and if God Ki was really something he has no idea about why did he only say something about " a blue haired Super Saiyan " being a power he doesn't know about, the power here is the transformation and not the Ki being used

[Rakurai]

Goten and Trunks do not have Super Saiyan 3, yet Gotenks does. The fusees don't need to have a certain form for their fused character to have it.

True but they also trained as Gotenks. I don't think XGohanks had that luxury considering XGohan expressed the action of fusing to XTrunks in potential form (if they could/they were able to) which would imply they don't do it often. Plus we know how much Heroes loves giving SSJ3 forms so it wouldn't be a surprise if XTrunks had it in game (he does in the manga).

I'm only keeping it a possibility that he knows what God Ki is because we don't know what happened in his Timeline leading up to him becoming part of the Time Patrol and there's no concrete evidence that suggests he doesn't know what God Ki so it's possible he knows Ssg just not Ssb

You're acting by the principle of faith. You believe it might be possible but have zero evidence to support that except from a game which has established itself to be of a different continuity from SDBH, and hence a different XGoku (i.e. not the one we usually refer to).

When XGoku or XVegeta make a reference to BoG events/god ki/fighting Beerus, then we can start speculating with good reason to do so. Right now, all SDBH existing mediums point to XGoku not knowing god ki, and coming from a GT-esque world.

[Ssb_goku20]

Goten and Trunks do not have Super Saiyan 3, yet Gotenks does. The fusees don't need to have a certain form for their fused character to have it.

True but they also trained as Gotenks. I don't think XGohanks had that luxury considering XGohan expressed the action of fusing to XTrunks in potential form (if they could/they were able to) which would imply they don't do it often. Plus we know how much Heroes loves giving SSJ3 forms so it wouldn't be a surprise if XTrunks had it in game (he does in the manga).

I'm only keeping it a possibility that he knows what God Ki is because we don't know what happened in his Timeline leading up to him becoming part of the Time Patrol and there's no concrete evidence that suggests he doesn't know what God Ki so it's possible he knows Ssg just not Ssb

You're acting by the principle of faith. You believe it might be possible but have zero evidence to support that except from a game which has established itself to be of a different continuity from SDBH, and hence a different XGoku (i.e. not the one we usually refer to).

When XGoku or XVegeta make a reference to BoG events/god ki/fighting Beerus, then we can start speculating with good reason to do so. Right now, all SDBH existing mediums point to XGoku not knowing god ki, and coming from a GT-esque world.

Ik that Ultimate Mission X is a different continuity from the Arcade game which is why i didn't mention it directly. You have no idea if he doesn't know about God Ki because nothing says he does even when his counterpart used Ssb he simply remarks how he has no idea what the form is.

[Rakurai]

Goten and Trunks do not have Super Saiyan 3, yet Gotenks does. The fusees don't need to have a certain form for their fused character to have it.

True but they also trained as Gotenks. I don't think XGohanks had that luxury considering XGohan expressed the action of fusing to XTrunks in potential form (if they could/they were able to) which would imply they don't do it often. Plus we know how much Heroes loves giving SSJ3 forms so it wouldn't be a surprise if XTrunks had it in game (he does in the manga).

I'm only keeping it a possibility that he knows what God Ki is because we don't know what happened in his Timeline leading up to him becoming part of the Time Patrol and there's no concrete evidence that suggests he doesn't know what God Ki so it's possible he knows Ssg just not Ssb

You're acting by the principle of faith. You believe it might be possible but have zero evidence to support that except from a game which has established itself to be of a different continuity from SDBH, and hence a different XGoku (i.e. not the one we usually refer to).

When XGoku or XVegeta make a reference to BoG events/god ki/fighting Beerus, then we can start speculating with good reason to do so. Right now, all SDBH existing mediums point to XGoku not knowing god ki, and coming from a GT-esque world.

Ik that Ultimate Mission X is a different continuity from the Arcade game which is why i didn't mention it directly. You have no idea if he doesn't know about God Ki because nothing says he does even when his counterpart used Ssb he simply remarks how he has no idea what the form is.

Power. Not form. Power. XGoku says the blue-haired Goku uses a power he doesn't know about. That's a greater degree of ignorance than just the form itself.

[Ssb_goku20]

True but they also trained as Gotenks. I don't think XGohanks had that luxury considering XGohan expressed the action of fusing to XTrunks in potential form (if they could/they were able to) which would imply they don't do it often. Plus we know how much Heroes loves giving SSJ3 forms so it wouldn't be a surprise if XTrunks had it in game (he does in the manga).



You're acting by the principle of faith. You believe it might be possible but have zero evidence to support that except from a game which has established itself to be of a different continuity from SDBH, and hence a different XGoku (i.e. not the one we usually refer to).

When XGoku or XVegeta make a reference to BoG events/god ki/fighting Beerus, then we can start speculating with good reason to do so. Right now, all SDBH existing mediums point to XGoku not knowing god ki, and coming from a GT-esque world.

Ik that Ultimate Mission X is a different continuity from the Arcade game which is why i didn't mention it directly. You have no idea if he doesn't know about God Ki because nothing says he does even when his counterpart used Ssb he simply remarks how he has no idea what the form is.

Power. Not form. Power. XGoku says the blue-haired Goku uses a power he doesn't know about. That's a greater degree of ignorance than just the form itself.

Ssb is regarded as the power beyond Ssg in all media and even referred to as the power that rivals the Gods

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Point them to Ch. 9 of the SDBH manga (UM1). There XGoku says that SSB Goku uses a power he doesn't know anything about (God ki).

Wait, chapter 9? The Universe Mission manga only has 6 chapters out and I doubt you mean the Demon Realm one.

Also, yeah, is UMX having Goku Xeno go through BoG what everyone uses as basis to sya he absolutely knows about God Ki and uses it in tandem with SSJ4.

One would think that the mere fact the arcade storylines have never acknowledged or referenced UMX's story would be enough to prove that is yet another version of Goku the one with God Ki.

[RichardKing2]

But this one has an explanation: Cumber didn't use Golden Oozaru, it is regular Oozaru. I really don't understand why and how this got spread in a so misinformed way. No cards, no marketing, nothing states that the Oozaru Cumber used is the golden one.

If thats the case, i'm curious but how would you rank all the forms of cumber, from strongest to weakest?

[Grimlock]

If he was talking about the Ki the form was using he would've said so.

And he said "a power I don't know about". He doesn't know the god forms. There's nothing more to it.

If thats the case, i'm curious but how would you rank all the forms of cumber, from strongest to weakest?

Not "if", that is the case.

I would rank it in the most conventional way: Super Saiyan 3 Full Power > Super Saiyan 3 > Super Saiyan 2 > Super Saiyan > Oozaru.

[RichardKing2]

If he was talking about the Ki the form was using he would've said so.

And he said "a power I don't know about". He doesn't know the god forms. There's nothing more to it.

If thats the case, i'm curious but how would you rank all the forms of cumber, from strongest to weakest?

Not "if", that is the case.

I would rank it in the most conventional way: Super Saiyan 3 Full Power > Super Saiyan 3 > Super Saiyan 2 > Super Saiyan > Oozaru.

But in the SDBH manga, Cumber transforms into a SSJ and Vegito goes into SSBKK. When Vegito tells him time to get serious Kaioken, Cumber says that it's time to get serous as well and transforms into a Great Ape. I think the biggest implication is that his GA form is stronger than his SSJ form when going by the manga.

So if we assume that his SSJ form is stronger than his Great Ape Form, then why would he demote himself into a weaker and slower form? It makes 0 sense. So you're saying that Cumber went from a stronger form(SSJ)....to a much weaker and slower form to fight SSBKK Vegito?

https://imgur.com/yMxvBZN

https://i.imgur.com/SzClVNf.png

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

I wouldn't take the manga as a good frame of reference since the author doesn't seem to be following the same outline as the arcade game and the anime going by how he decided to cut Cumber's tail off.

[S3 Hendrix]

If he was talking about the Ki the form was using he would've said so.

And he said "a power I don't know about". He doesn't know the god forms. There's nothing more to it.

If thats the case, i'm curious but how would you rank all the forms of cumber, from strongest to weakest?

Not "if", that is the case.

I would rank it in the most conventional way: Super Saiyan 3 Full Power > Super Saiyan 3 > Super Saiyan 2 > Super Saiyan > Oozaru.

Except that’s not the case, the only times in game a golden oozaru is specifically called that is golden oozaru Gogeta and golden oozaru Goku. So by your logic baby Vegeta isn’t golden oozaru, Broly isn’t using golden oozaru either(even tho in game he’s ssj3 and becomes a golden/green oozaru). Cumber in game was ssj when he became oozaru ( https://youtu.be/WDTveKLyJV8 ) so much more supports he was golden oozaru than he wasn’t. The only thing you have to support this claim is that the text on his card doesn’t say golden oozaru but if that’s enough proof then other characters who are obviously golden oozaru didn’t use it (baby and broly)

[Ssb_goku20]

If he was talking about the Ki the form was using he would've said so.

And he said "a power I don't know about". He doesn't know the god forms. There's nothing more to it.

If thats the case, i'm curious but how would you rank all the forms of cumber, from strongest to weakest?

Not "if", that is the case.

I would rank it in the most conventional way: Super Saiyan 3 Full Power > Super Saiyan 3 > Super Saiyan 2 > Super Saiyan > Oozaru.

He states that power he doesn't know about is Ssb not the Ki the form is using

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Except that’s not the case, the only times in game a golden oozaru is specifically called that is golden oozaru Gogeta and golden oozaru Goku. So by your logic baby Vegeta isn’t golden oozaru, Broly isn’t using golden oozaru either(even tho in game he’s ssj3 and becomes a golden/green oozaru). Cumber in game was ssj when he became oozaru ( https://youtu.be/WDTveKLyJV8 ) so much more supports he was golden oozaru than he wasn’t. The only thing you have to support this claim is that the text on his card doesn’t say golden oozaru but if that’s enough proof then other characters who are obviously golden oozaru didn’t use it (baby and broly)

Now that you mention it, I went looking into the database and yeah, the cards label both Baby and Cumber just as a Great Ape (大猿). The Golden Oozaru (黄金大猿) label is only used on seven cards: Four GT Goku, one Gotenks that I think it summons Golden Oozaru Gogeta and two Pan that are related to GT Goku.

[Grimlock]

But in the SDBH manga, Cumber transforms into a SSJ and Vegito goes into SSBKK. When Vegito tells him time to get serious Kaioken, Cumber says that it's time to get serous as well and transforms into a Great Ape. I think the biggest implication is that his GA form is stronger than his SSJ form when going by the manga.

So if we assume that his SSJ form is stronger than his Great Ape Form, then why would he demote himself into a weaker and slower form? It makes 0 sense. So you're saying that Cumber went from a stronger form(SSJ)....to a much weaker and slower form to fight SSBKK Vegito?

https://imgur.com/yMxvBZN

https://i.imgur.com/SzClVNf.png

You asked me to rank the forms and so I did. Now, how Heroes uses power scaling and stuff like that is out of my reach. I don't care about power level. Characters will be as strong as the people in the production want them to be.

Except that’s not the case, the only times in game a golden oozaru is specifically called that is golden oozaru Gogeta and golden oozaru Goku. So by your logic baby Vegeta isn’t golden oozaru, Broly isn’t using golden oozaru either(even tho in game he’s ssj3 and becomes a golden/green oozaru). Cumber in game was ssj when he became oozaru ( https://youtu.be/WDTveKLyJV8 ) so much more supports he was golden oozaru than he wasn’t. The only thing you have to support this claim is that the text on his card doesn’t say golden oozaru but if that’s enough proof then other characters who are obviously golden oozaru didn’t use it (baby and broly)

Broly isn't using Golden Oozaru either. And the same goes to Bardock cards that allow him to transform from a Super Saiyan form to Oozaru.

[Dragon Wukong]

But in the SDBH manga, Cumber transforms into a SSJ and Vegito goes into SSBKK. When Vegito tells him time to get serious Kaioken, Cumber says that it's time to get serous as well and transforms into a Great Ape. I think the biggest implication is that his GA form is stronger than his SSJ form when going by the manga.

So if we assume that his SSJ form is stronger than his Great Ape Form, then why would he demote himself into a weaker and slower form? It makes 0 sense. So you're saying that Cumber went from a stronger form(SSJ)....to a much weaker and slower form to fight SSBKK Vegito?

https://imgur.com/yMxvBZN

https://i.imgur.com/SzClVNf.png

You asked me to rank the forms and so I did. Now, how Heroes uses power scaling and stuff like that is out of my reach. I don't care about power level. Characters will be as strong as the people in the production want them to be.

Except that’s not the case, the only times in game a golden oozaru is specifically called that is golden oozaru Gogeta and golden oozaru Goku. So by your logic baby Vegeta isn’t golden oozaru, Broly isn’t using golden oozaru either(even tho in game he’s ssj3 and becomes a golden/green oozaru). Cumber in game was ssj when he became oozaru ( https://youtu.be/WDTveKLyJV8 ) so much more supports he was golden oozaru than he wasn’t. The only thing you have to support this claim is that the text on his card doesn’t say golden oozaru but if that’s enough proof then other characters who are obviously golden oozaru didn’t use it (baby and broly)

Broly isn't using Golden Oozaru either. And the same goes to Bardock cards that allow him to transform from a Super Saiyan form to Oozaru.

It feels a little out of the logic of the series to say a yellow/super saiyan colored great ape is just a regular great ape (especially when Broly's serves as an intermediary to hi SS4) just because it doesn't get explicitly referred to as something else, but that's just my opinion.

[Grimlock]

I know, but then why wouldn't Heroes name it Golden Oozaru if it was their intention to use that form? They got it right for Gogeta. And then there is Bardock, which again, shows that Heroes doesn't really care much about that. Just because a Saiyan has Super Saiyan does not mean whenever they transform into an Oozaru it will be the golden one.

As for Broly, his Oozaru is green, Cumber might get a free pass because in the game his form is yellow-ish.

[Wilderness]

Why is this even up for debate? A card doesn’t need the name ‘Golden Oozaru’ for it to be extremely obvious that an Oozaru with gold fur is a Golden Oozaru, or a Super Saiyan Oozaru. Same goes with green for Broly.