Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by ABED » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:01 pm

Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:55 pm
ABED wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:53 pm
With the Z season sets, the widescreen is always an issue. The blue bricks' zoom isn't noticeable in motion if you don't know what you're looking for.
We're not talking about widescreen. We're talking about the new 30th remaster that's 4:3. And yes, it is notable. Or rather, your mileage may vary. But it is most certainly not good.

This new Z Blu-ray at least has SOME shots that are comparable or even have MORE image than the Dragon Box.
Earnest question, why did you feel the need to tell me the point of this thread? I know we're not talking about the widescreen issue. I'm using it as a point of reference and saying the Blue Bricks have issues, but they aren't THAT.

Also I wrote NOTICEABLE, not NOTABLE. I agree that it's notable. I don't know if it's noticeable in motion.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SqueakyBoots » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:01 pm

Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:55 pm
This new Z Blu-ray at least has SOME shots that are comparable or even have MORE image than the Dragon Box.
Looking at the comparisons Funimation posted again, it's really only episode 1 that's zoomed in really far. The other examples, while still slightly zoomed, look nowhere near as bad.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:03 pm

Scsigs wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:40 pm
I agree. They corrected the aspect ratio problem as best they could from their 3rd gen film masters, but the screenshots are STILL heavily DVNR'd (just look at the backgrounds, still look like fucking watercolors)
Is it possible that's just a result of the masters themselves being third-gen? Was this present on the Levels (I'm assuming not otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it).
PremiumSalt wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:38 pm
KBABZ wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:25 pm
Would anyone be able to take screenshots or transcript the blog post? Similar to Robo, I'm not American so apparently my opinion doesn't matter, haha.
Sure, here's a transcription of the blog post for you and anyone else outside the US:
Thanks for that! Nice to hear Funimation go through their process for a change.
Lance Freeman wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:40 pm
Boy am I lucky that this is prohibitively expensive for international consumers, otherwise I'd probably be all over this. I know, it's not the level sets or the Dragon Boxes, but we're never going to get those again and frankly, this is better than what we have at the consumer level.
Well not only that but, as I realized today, they'd be in the wrong region anyway so you wouldn't be able to play them on any of your Blu-Ray players, or your PC without changing the region (which you can only do a limited number of times).
funrush wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:04 pm
Positive response from Funi, the zoom is due to the low-quality source material that would be too costly to manually edit like the Level sets, so it makes a bit more sense. I'm glad they're communicating.
Same. It isn't perfect (mainly the DNR for me), but the communication here helps a great deal in understanding why Funi did what they have here.
The Jackal wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:05 pm
I mean, why is this 4:3 boxset even a premium release? It's how the series was originally released, and should be the default. 16:9 widescreen and cranked up DNR? Who asked for that? No one. :crazy: And yet, they're still doing doing the 'Orange Box' treatment to a "premium" release?
It's a Premium Release because it's for the 30th Anniversary, silly. It's right there on the side of the box!
KillerCory wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:40 pm
Not to stray too far off topic but what was the main visual differences between the Japan Dragon Box and Funimation Dragon Box?

Why couldn’t Funimation just take their Dragon Box work and slap it on the Blu-rays?
Because those were provided by Toei, which almost certainly means they were in standard definition (it's similar to Kai; Funi didn't produce either, they localized them only and outside of brightness adjustments due to TV standards, they were untouched). If you hate watercolour Dragon Ball, just wait 'til Funimation hears your comment and tries to upscale and DNR SD footage!
Last edited by KBABZ on Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:04 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:01 pm
Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:55 pm
ABED wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:53 pm
With the Z season sets, the widescreen is always an issue. The blue bricks' zoom isn't noticeable in motion if you don't know what you're looking for.
We're not talking about widescreen. We're talking about the new 30th remaster that's 4:3. And yes, it is notable. Or rather, your mileage may vary. But it is most certainly not good.

This new Z Blu-ray at least has SOME shots that are comparable or even have MORE image than the Dragon Box.
Earnest question, why did you feel the need to tell me the point of this thread? I know we're not talking about the widescreen issue. I'm using it as a point of reference and saying the Blue Bricks have issues, but they aren't THAT.
Because you mentioned widescreen and that has nothing to do with our discussion? And yes, that IS an issue with the Blue Bricks. The framing is cramped. I could care less if you tell me it's ok. It cuts out a ton of image.

And your "it's not noticeable in motion if you don't know what you're looking for" sounds like a bad Twitter comment that's defending more of FUNi's garbage.
Last edited by Forte224 on Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:07 pm

SqueakyBoots wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:01 pm
Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:55 pm
This new Z Blu-ray at least has SOME shots that are comparable or even have MORE image than the Dragon Box.
Looking at the comparisons Funimation posted again, it's really only episode 1 that's zoomed in really far. The other examples, while still slightly zoomed, look nowhere near as bad.
Yes, based on what we've seen and have been told, overall, we should have a net positive of image when compared to even the Dragon Boxes. Hopefully.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by ABED » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:11 pm

Because you mentioned widescreen and that has nothing to do with our discussion? And yes, that IS an issue with the Blue Bricks. The framing is cramped. I could care less if you tell me it's ok. It cuts out a ton of image.

And your "it's not a problem if you don't know what you're looking for" sounds like a bad Twitter comment that's defending more of FUNi's garbage.
It did have to do with the discussion. I'm saying it's not bad in comparison. I'm not defending them, just saying acting like the slight zooming is on par with the widescreen sounds like Chicken Little. I don't like it, but it's slight. If I didn't own the DBoxes, I'd buy these, as flawed as they are, over the season sets.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:12 pm

Fair enough.
Last edited by Forte224 on Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by eledoremassis02 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:12 pm

If someone can tweet this to funi (I dont use twitter) and see if they can get a response, Id appreciate it. The blog said they selectively zoom (they also said they selectively cropped for the season blurays and while they were a bit better than the Orange Bricks, we know there are some shots that would of been prevented if a Human was actually doing it) but,

Here is a shot of the film master, the level set (red) and the 30th set (green). Now I think this confirms this is a new master and not the level (which seems kind of odd as it would of gave them a jump start on a bunch of episodes) but why not at least try to get the same or more out of the frame as the level set. Now I'm still ok with the 30th shot, but I figured it'd be worth asking.

Image

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by ect5150 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:14 pm

I couldn't find the exact frame, but this should be close enough to compare to the Widescreen release. I've always hated the line definition on the previous bluray releases on these exact scenes. It looks like this might be a tad better. I'm with the rest of you though. Just give us those raw images instead.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:17 pm

So, is there any way for me to view the YouTube comparison video without using a VPN or something like that?
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:12 pm
Here is a shot of the film master, the level set (red) and the 30th set (green). Now I think this confirms this is a new master and not the level (which seems kind of odd as it would of gave them a jump start on a bunch of episodes) but why not at least try to get the same or more out of the frame as the level set. Now I'm still ok with the 30th shot, but I figured it'd be worth asking.
They explain why in the blog post: they're trying to provide a similar amount of framing as what you might have seen on the TV when the show was originally broadcast. It's what me and Forte were arguing about earlier when I brought out this image:
The yellow box is the Dragon Box framing, the red box is the CRT overscan safety zone. If you notice, the crop on the Black Brick compared to the Levels is comparable to CRT overscan.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:19 pm

Yeah but, based on what we've seen today, most images outside of episode 1 tend to not be as zoomed. Their blog post said they're trying to cut out as little as possible. Maybe something went wrong with episode 1 and they'll go back. Hopefully. Maybe.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:22 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:17 pm
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:12 pm
Here is a shot of the film master, the level set (red) and the 30th set (green). Now I think this confirms this is a new master and not the level (which seems kind of odd as it would of gave them a jump start on a bunch of episodes) but why not at least try to get the same or more out of the frame as the level set. Now I'm still ok with the 30th shot, but I figured it'd be worth asking.
They explain why in the blog post: they're trying to provide a similar amount of framing as what you might have seen on the TV when the show was originally broadcast. It's what me and Forte were arguing about earlier when I brought out this image:
The yellow box is the Dragon Box framing, the red box is the CRT overscan safety zone. If you notice, the crop on the Black Brick compared to the Levels is comparable to CRT overscan.
"no no, it's okay, we're deliberately making our remaster inferior because it used to be like that if you watched it on tv in japan back in the day. to that end we're also decreasing the detail so much that you get about the same crappy image as you'd get on a crt via coaxial, and messing up the colour settings exactly like your dad would because he thinks he knows better than the guys who built the tv and he likes the colours brighter even though it's a bad idea. don't worry guys. it's the way it's meant to be seen. 8) "

This would explain their attitude, though. They don't want the wide frame, grain, detail, etc. of properly remastered film, they want the same low detail, zoomed-in, blurry image you got on TV in the '80s/'90s.
Does someone want to tell them those old TV airings were crappy standard-def airings, though? That maybe this look isn't what a modern HD presentation should look like? That maybe the intents of the artists, and the original look of the film prints from that time are the proper way to render this stuff in HD, with HD detail?
Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:19 pm
Yeah but, based on what we've seen today, most images outside of episode 1 tend to not be as zoomed. Their blog post said they're trying to cut out as little as possible. Maybe something went wrong with episode 1 and they'll go back. Hopefully. Maybe.
Y'see, that just seems contradictory:
> We're cropping it to match the old CRT images
> But we're cropping as little as possible

Seems pretty clear they're just trying to justify the ridiculous zooming.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by ect5150 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:24 pm

Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:19 pm
Yeah but, based on what we've seen today, most images outside of episode 1 tend to not be as zoomed. Their blog post said they're trying to cut out as little as possible. Maybe something went wrong with episode 1 and they'll go back. Hopefully. Maybe.
I'm willing to bet money the zooming issues are just their way of avoiding the tape/glue damage at the bottom of the frames in certain scenes. Thus it's an easy cost saving measure for them. I'm betting your correct then... they must have something odd with episode 1. However, someone else pointed out they already have those episodes re-edited with the Level Sets... they could just use that cleanup. Oh well!

GIVE US THOSE RAW IMAGES INSTEAD FUNI !!!
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:25 pm

Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:19 pm
Yeah but, based on what we've seen today, most images outside of episode 1 tend to not be as zoomed. Their blog post said they're trying to cut out as little as possible. Maybe something went wrong with episode 1 and they'll go back. Hopefully. Maybe.
This is Funimation. At this point they could cut to David Attenborough's talk on Lyre birds when Goku goes Super Saiyan and none of us would be surprised.
Robo4900 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:22 pm
Seems pretty clear they're just trying to justify the ridiculous zooming.
Never said I AGREED with their decision. Personally I'd want to have the WHOLE THING visible, rounded corners and all, but that seems to be a step too far even around here!

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:26 pm

ect5150 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:24 pm
Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:19 pm
Yeah but, based on what we've seen today, most images outside of episode 1 tend to not be as zoomed. Their blog post said they're trying to cut out as little as possible. Maybe something went wrong with episode 1 and they'll go back. Hopefully. Maybe.
I'm willing to bet money the zooming issues are just their way of avoiding the tape/glue damage at the bottom of the frames in certain scenes. Thus it's an easy cost saving measure for them. I'm betting your correct then... they must have something odd with episode 1. However, someone else pointed out they already have those episodes re-edited with the Level Sets... they could just use that cleanup. Oh well!

GIVE US THOSE RAW IMAGES INSTEAD FUNI !!!
Y'know what, though...

If the image was otherwise like the Levels, but they just zoomed it in a bit to get rid of the tape marks... Y'know what, yeah, I'd accept that. The framing is easy to criticise, but if the picture within that frame is good, honestly I wouldn't complain. Yeah, it's nice to have as wide a frame as possible, but I still think the Ultimate Uncuts would have been my preferred style of DVD release for the whole series, and until this 30th anniversary thing, that was the most zoomed-in frame we'd ever seen. Just make sure the picture within that frame looks good, and we're golden.

But, the image here is bloody awful. Literally just give us that raw scan, and I'm happy. Give us that raw scan, cropped down to mititage some flaws in the picture, and I'm happy. Just give us something that isn't this utter crap.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:27 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:26 pm
But, the image is bloody awful. Literally just give us that raw scan, and I'm happy. Give us that raw scan, cropped down to mititage some flaws in the picture, and I'm happy. Just give us something that isn't this utter crap.
If we could tell them that'd be CHEAPER and TIME-SAVING I'm sure that'd be something they'd perk their ears up to.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:29 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:27 pm
Robo4900 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:26 pm
But, the image is bloody awful. Literally just give us that raw scan, and I'm happy. Give us that raw scan, cropped down to mititage some flaws in the picture, and I'm happy. Just give us something that isn't this utter crap.
If we could tell them that'd be CHEAPER and TIME-SAVING I'm sure that'd be something they'd perk their ears up to.
Sure. Tell them that. Tweet it at them as hard as you can. Please do! I'm serious! Do it! And don't forget that this cheaper, easier remastering way would also get them far more sales! Might even reach that 6000 limit, and generate enough interest that people want a second release of these masters! Funi could make so much money off this!

Clearly Funi are hearing what we're saying, they're just not paying attention to what we want, and instead doubling down on this crap... If they can be made to see a good point of view in this regard, then great!!

I don't think they will see reason, but goddammit we can try!!

Just don't give up hope, everybody; stick to your guns, don't preorder. Complain; make your voice heard. Only relent if they back off this stupid DNR+oversaturation idiocy they're stuck on!!
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by NewKakarot » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:48 pm

I lost hope already tbh. They're less than 400 orders from reaching the 3,000 reservation minimum. I've seen too many people who have just gone "good enough". And even when they recognize how awful the product they're being shown is, they'll justify it with the mention of the artbook and Banpresto Goku.

Most casuals will just watch whatever is being thrown at them without actually doing research

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:01 pm

NewKakarot wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:48 pm
I lost hope already tbh. They're less than 400 orders from reaching the 3,000 reservation minimum. I've seen too many people who have just gone "good enough". And even when they recognize how awful the product they're being shown is, they'll justify it with the mention of the artbook and Banpresto Goku.

Most casuals will just watch whatever is being thrown at them without actually doing research
Yeah.

To everyone saying "good enough" and just rolling over and taking it: When this release comes out in its full sucktitude that it appears to be in, it will have been your fault, and you will have no right to complain about Funi's poor releases ever again.

But, in the meantime, damage control: Everyone, keep swamping Funi with complaints about this new level of awful they've stooped to. Don't let up for any reason other than a complete retraction of everything this release is in favour of a Level remaster.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Tylerman29 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:09 pm

NewKakarot wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:48 pm
I lost hope already tbh. They're less than 400 orders from reaching the 3,000 reservation minimum. I've seen too many people who have just gone "good enough". And even when they recognize how awful the product they're being shown is, they'll justify it with the mention of the artbook and Banpresto Goku.

Most casuals will just watch whatever is being thrown at them without actually doing research
What is the alternative outcome then? Lets say the set never reaches 3k (it is whether we like it or not), funi will just take that as a sign that there isnt an audience for a 4:3 version. We will just be stuck with the 2014 blu rays until the day physical media dies. I'm all for complaining and asking them to do better, but not ordering only hurts my chances of getting a serviceable release of the show. It doesnt come out till November so lets hope they at least tweak the DVNR and color correction slightly. Lets just try for that as best we can.
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