Is DBS: Broly overrated?

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by Bryesque » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:17 am

I wouldn't say so. I'm not super fond of Bardock being Jor-El'ed, but on the whole I thought the writing was quite good and they did a much better job reworking several non-canon movies/specials into a cohesive movie that fits nicely into the main series. Broly himself was easily the best he's ever been - even if it's just making him an abused Saiyan Tarzan, that's a lot more compelling than "rage tantrum over a crying baby". Broly has always been a lousy, stupid character, and this movie made him a decent one with some actual promise - a hell of a feat, honestly.

Overall I loved the fluidity of the animation and the art design, but the more "basic" drawing style left some wonky moments here and there. Small price to pay for what was one of the most visually engaging DB stories in recent memory. I'm excited to rewatch it when the Blu-ray comes out.

Keep it in check hype-wise and I don't think it disappoints at all. It's easily one of the better DB movies and it's a joy to watch.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by kemuri07 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:10 am

DBS: Broly works within the context of a simplified narrative (that pretty much removes nearly every annoying element of Super) that focuses almost entirely on Saiyans mixing it up. And within that context, Broly is fine.

It's just when you try to view it as a sequel to the series as well as its attempts to canonize Broly is when the cracks become visible.

Nothing of any importance actually happens: The extended prologue only serves to make the Superman/Goku connection that more explicit (YES WE GET IT MOVIE! BARDOCK IS JOR-EL!!!), Broly's character development doesn't mean a lick of shit because he still just becomes MAXIMUMER all the same. And by the end, the status-quo is basically reinforced.

It's a 90 minute wrestling match that I'd enjoy putting the bluray into my TV to watch the fun fight scenes--but that's it.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by RedHeat » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:01 am

Nope, not at all. It delivered on the single most important thing: it made Broly not a horrible character. Bunched with excellent fight scenes, expanded lore, and nice future setup, this ended up being the best DB movie out of the franchise.
Feels over Reals.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by kemuri07 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:20 pm

1.What expanded lore? For all the extra shit it adds, it gets us to the same exact place as the original anime did: Goku gets launched to Earth, Broly and his dad get excommunicated from Vegeta, Planet Vegeta explodes. It's pointless to not only the movie itself, but the series at large. The movie could have excised all of the prologue stuff and the end result would still be the same.

2. Broly being a "better character" isn't that impressive when his original backstory is literally that he hated Goku for crying--for like, three whole hours. So instead of being an awful character, he's merely a generic one. And despite that, he's still the same mindless bruiser as he was in the original film, so what was the point?

3. And like I said before. Everything basically goes back to the status quo by the end of the film: nothing of any consequence happens.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by funrush » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:42 am

IMO it's the best Dragon Ball film by a significant margin except for maybe Battle of Gods. I can't really say where it'd be compared to other non-DB films, I'm kinda biased as a super DB fan lol

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:27 am

sintzu wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:10 pm
The story wasn't bad but it wasn't ground breaking either.
The story was good the problem is it just stopped developping before even the first half of the movie lol

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by sintzu » Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:34 am

PsionicWarrior wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:27 am
The story was good the problem is it just stopped developping before even the first half of the movie lol.
It wasn't bad by any means but it was just more of the same. With the movie being such an event (franchise 20th and new art direction), I think they should've went with something completely new instead of just remaking 3 old stories.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:50 am

@sintzu

Well even if they did something new, the main problem would remain which is the lack of drama, they started to build something in the narrative to drop it half-way, just imagine if that movie had proper drama as in FTrunks movie for example, it would have been perfect imo, remake or new

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by wolflonnie » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:51 pm

kemuri07 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:20 pm
2. Broly being a "better character" isn't that impressive when his original backstory is literally that he hated Goku for crying--for like, three whole hours. So instead of being an awful character, he's merely a generic one. And despite that, he's still the same mindless bruiser as he was in the original film, so what was the point?
Eh, I wouldn't even call him necessarily "better".
At least, the first one had a decent psychotic feel to him, albeit with confused and, to some, weird motivations.
He was threatening because he was a rampaging psychopath with a lot of power from the get-go
New Broly is, as you stated, generic and cliché, and not threatening at all.
He's just some dude losing control. A Tarzan-esque saiyan you HAVE to sympathize with because some fanservice gal tells you so.
How poor he is! Abused by his father! Are you crying yet? HOW COULD YOU NOT??

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by Chilly » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:48 pm

wolflonnie wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:51 pm
kemuri07 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:20 pm
2. Broly being a "better character" isn't that impressive when his original backstory is literally that he hated Goku for crying--for like, three whole hours. So instead of being an awful character, he's merely a generic one. And despite that, he's still the same mindless bruiser as he was in the original film, so what was the point?
Eh, I wouldn't even call him necessarily "better".
At least, the first one had a decent psychotic feel to him, albeit with confused and, to some, weird motivations.
He was threatening because he was a rampaging psychopath with a lot of power from the get-go
New Broly is, as you stated, generic and cliché, and not threatening at all.
He's just some dude losing control. A Tarzan-esque saiyan you HAVE to sympathize with because some fanservice gal tells you so.
How poor he is! Abused by his father! Are you crying yet? HOW COULD YOU NOT??
Good points. Super Broly is Broly for a newer generation. Not that I dislike the new film and Broly's incarnation there, but it felt a little hollow. I'd also argue he has less character than his movie 8 counterpart. He had less dialogue, that's for sure, which didn't help (in my eyes).

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by sintzu » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:14 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:50 am
Well even if they did something new, the main problem would remain which is the lack of drama, they started to build something in the narrative to drop it half-way, just imagine if that movie had proper drama as in FTrunks movie for example, it would have been perfect imo, remake or new.
I think the problem with modern DB is that you can't really create drama at this point. First and most importantly, it's set set before EOZ so whatever happens we already no will be fixed by then. The second issue is that Whis can rewind time AND bring people back to life so they have him on top of the dragon balls to fix anything that goes wrong. That's not to say problems weren't fixed in the original manga but it took a lot more effort compared to now.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:14 pm

sintzu wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:14 pm
I think the problem with modern DB is that you can't really create drama at this point.
Of course you can, if you can answer to very simple questions, like:
What would Broly gain by beating Goku and Vegeta?
What would Vegeta gain by beating Broly?
Yeah calling it now you can come up with tons of reasons but sorry to say it's not in the actual movie,

At the start of the movie we get some nice lore and backstory, but it goes nowhere

We can only guess and speculate, where is the legendary evocative DB power?

...

Then I just wonder was it hard to have Broly talk to Goku and Vegeta?
We don't know what are Broly's motivations,

In the end you can only conclude,
What was accomplished at the end of the movie?
First and most importantly, it's set set before EOZ so whatever happens we already no will be fixed by then. The second issue is that Whis can rewind time AND bring people back to life so they have him on top of the dragon balls to fix anything that goes wrong. That's not to say problems weren't fixed in the original manga but it took a lot more effort compared to now.
Not even mentioning bring me ONE valid reason to NOT fusion into Gogeta now every time there is a threat

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:09 am

No. Broly is easily the best thing the franchise has ever produced. It's phenomenal in every category.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by PsionicWarrior » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:38 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:09 am
No. Broly is easily the best thing the franchise has ever produced. It's phenomenal in every category.
It's phenomenal in a lot of things but not in the narrative we've seen better mate. Still a great movie and easily part of my top 3. :thumbup:

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by sintzu » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:50 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:09 am
No. Broly is easily the best thing the franchise has ever produced. It's phenomenal in every category.
Is it in the story category ? All it did was take 2 older movies and a TV special and mix them into one movie. It wasn't bad by any means but was that the best they could've done ? Wouldn't this kind of production and the franchise as a while benefit more from new stories instead ? It doesn't help that aspects of Bardock and Broly were worse here.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by DragonBallFan » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:47 am

sintzu wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:50 am
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:09 am
No. Broly is easily the best thing the franchise has ever produced. It's phenomenal in every category.
Is it in the story category ? All it did was take 2 older movies and a TV special and mix them into one movie. It wasn't bad by any means but was that the best they could've done ? Wouldn't this kind of production and the franchise as a while benefit more from new stories instead ? It doesn't help that aspects of Bardock and Broly were worse here.
I mean, it didn't exactly do that, it was all rewritten, in a more Akira Toriyama like style, obviously because he's the one who wrote it. What aspects of Broly and Bardock were worse? Old Broly basically had no personality, old Bardock was a douche, which some people seem to like, each to their own. New Broly brought us a sympathetic character, one a lot of people feel sorry for, I don't think there's been any other DB movie where Goku and Vegeta were basically the villains. New Bardock was not like the other Saiyans, though he was a warrior, he was pure, and he loved his child. It wasn't Bardock's fault he grew up in a military based race that's under control of an evil tyrant. He was the only Saiyan as far as we know, not even Gine tried, Bardock tried to go up against Frieza, though he failed you could tell he wasn't ready to give up, his death is saddening.

This was a new story overall, rewritten and rewritten better. If you can come up with a few valid reasons why the old movies can stand against this one, I'll listen.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:42 am

Precisely this film wasn't about our heroes, beyond the fight they were barely in the film other than minor set up to get to the ice continent. This was Broly's film. The tension was for him, especially towards the end when Gogeta was just owning him, I had no idea if Broly was gonna survive and felt genuinely concerned for him.

I agree also regarding Bardock. He was unlikeable in the old special (and the whole stupid physic powers) but here he did things on a whim and honestly was sooooo much cooler as a result than his old counterpart.

Compared to the recent shit we've been served in films like BoG and RF. Broly just felt so perfect, pacing was excellent, humor was done just right, characters and interactions were great and the techinal aspects lile animation, music were phenomenal and the Japanese & English cast more than brought their A game too.

Great f**king film.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by DragonBallFan » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:25 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:42 am
Precisely this film wasn't about our heroes, beyond the fight they were barely in the film other than minor set up to get to the ice continent. This was Broly's film. The tension was for him, especially towards the end when Gogeta was just owning him, I had no idea if Broly was gonna survive and felt genuinely concerned for him.

I agree also regarding Bardock. He was unlikeable in the old special (and the whole stupid physic powers) but here he did things on a whim and honestly was sooooo much cooler as a result than his old counterpart.

Compared to the recent shit we've been served in films like BoG and RF. Broly just felt so perfect, pacing was excellent, humor was done just right, characters and interactions were great and the techinal aspects lile animation, music were phenomenal and the Japanese & English cast more than brought their A game too.

Great f**king film.
I won't be supporting the Funimation Dub anymore, I have a sour taste in my mouth after witnessing the horrible behavior of some of the VA's, I am not taking sides, but I do believe there are always two sides to a story.

I feel like if BOG had the same treatment as Broly did, I think it may have bee on par, if not better, for DB fans, but overall I feel as if Broly wins, I saw the movie with casual fans and people who haven't watched DB, and they understood because everything was basically explained, albeit very simply.

This movie had a 3 hour script, some movies go for almost 2 hours if not that, I would have poured money into Toei to get this film to at least just under two hours, maximum two.

Though, I am satisfied, this movie gave me goosebumps and I'm still getting goosebumps from just writing this, I teared up at Bardock and Goku's scene, I felt light headed at the end of the film, it was like it was all a dream, extraordinary, absolutely

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by sintzu » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:59 am

DragonBallFan wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:47 am
If you can come up with a few valid reasons why the old movies can stand against this one, I'll listen.
Bardock : I'm not a fan of the nice version of the character or how Goku escaped planet Vegeta's destruction. It just makes his origin closer to Superman's which it already was to begin with. I like how in the original Goku's survival and turning good was pure coincedence. He wasn't meant to be saved or anything, he was just another random saiyan sent to destroy another random planet who just got lucky. Goku turning good was also pure luck which was him falling and hitting his head. Although that's still part of the story, an argument can be made that having good parents played a role in his shift. It also doesn't help that they marketed the movie as exploring the history of the Saiyans only for it to just be things we've already known and have.

Broly : I do like the changes made to his personality and backstory. The Goku crying thing was always a downside in his original movie and I like that there's more to his past and character than just violence. What I'm not a fan of is Broly losing his main trait, his unstoppable nature. In the original movie you had Broly destroying 4 Saiyans and one Namakian at their full strength, nothing they did was enough to slow him down let alone hurt him. In this movie however, he's kind of a push over. Vegeta was in full control for most of their fight and even when Broly took on his Ozaru state and managed to push him back, we knew Vegeta was nowhere near his full power as he still had not one but TWO transformations he didn't use. I'm happy Vegeta wasn't on the floor waiting to die like in the original but I think they could've done that without making Broly look bad. He fought evenly with Goku Blue but Goku still had Kaioken and UI so we knew he, like Vegeta, wasn't at a disadvantage. Broly's best showing was against Golden Freeza who at that point was nothing compared to the 2 Saiyans so beating him up was nothing to write home about. When he went Ssj and seemed to push back Goku and Vegeta, they fused before he could even touch them and went on to make him look even worse than before.

Like I said, this is by no means a bad story as my points above are completely subjective but for me personally, I think the movie would've been better if it was something completely new instead of remaking older stories.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Is DBS: Broly overrated?

Post by GTx10 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:34 am

For me the fans ruined the movie because they were licking Tate's toes. Which led to me watching the movie with a "fu@k this animation I want Yamamuro back" mindset. I watched the movie and laughed when needed, "awww" when needed, went nuts at the "UI cameo" and then got angry when Golden Freeza looked awful. Then the movie ended and I felt torn.
In terms of story line the movie gets a definitive "neat" score from me. In terms of drawing consistency, "needs major improvement" score. Really that SS1 Broly vs Freeza/Golden Freeza segment is so awful, Freeza looks like a deformed monkey. In terms of moving picture animation, "that was cool" score.
Let's see if my opinion changes after I buy the Home release.
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